Replacing Eir/Siro GPON ONT (Huawei HG8010H)

rosscullen

Would love to get your suggestions on this one.

Have a new house build and have FTTH coming to the pole outside. I ran 2 x CAT 6 from my comms room to the telephone meter box on the side of the house but didn't run power. Now I'm in a dilemma because I've nothing to power the Huawei HG8010H. (For info, I've no VOIP requirements). I don't want to drill the fibre inside as the comms room is too far away and I don't want to mount the Huawei HG8010H inside (I believe Eir will only bring the Fibre roughly 1m inside the home).

So 4 questions:
1) Has anyone had their ODP and Huawei HG8010H ONT mounted outside in the phone meter box (optionally inside a water proof box as well with a small bit of venting)?
2) Could I potentially run sufficient power down the 2nd CAT 6 cable to power the Huawei HG8010H or is that a bridge too far?
3) Is there any way to run PoE power and convert it back out for the Huawei HG8010H?
4) Is it possible to get a native PoE GPON ONT device like the Ubiquiti UF-Nano in replacement of the Huawei HG8010H? If so, what are the settings I would need to program up (or maybe there's none?). Would the ISP play a blind eye to this?

I have bought a Huawei HG8010H to do initial testing and some PoE adaptors for non-PoE CCTV cameras (see https://www.cctvcameraworld.com/poe-power-adapters.html) but I've yet to try it out.

Any suggestions much appreciated

shanec1928

unsure on point 1 but im going to say no for the others, the gpon is registered with the isp and you may have to quote the s/n when getting support.

m99T

rosscullen wrote: »

Would love to get your suggestions on this one.

Have a new house build and have FTTH coming to the pole outside. I ran 2 x CAT 6 from my comms room to the telephone meter box on the side of the house but didn't run power. Now I'm in a dilemma because I've nothing to power the Huawei HG8010H. (For info, I've no VOIP requirements). I don't want to drill the fibre inside as the comms room is too far away and I don't want to mount the Huawei HG8010H inside (I believe Eir will only bring the Fibre roughly 1m inside the home).

So 4 questions:
1) Has anyone had their ODP and Huawei HG8010H ONT mounted outside in the phone meter box (optionally inside a water proof box as well with a small bit of venting)?
2) Could I potentially run sufficient power down the 2nd CAT 6 cable to power the Huawei HG8010H or is that a bridge too far?
3) Is there any way to run PoE power and convert it back out for the Huawei HG8010H?
4) Is it possible to get a native PoE GPON ONT device like the Ubiquiti UF-Nano in replacement of the Huawei HG8010H? If so, what are the settings I would need to program up (or maybe there's none?). Would the ISP play a blind eye to this?

I have bought a Huawei HG8010H to do initial testing and some PoE adaptors for non-PoE CCTV cameras (see https://www.cctvcameraworld.com/poe-power-adapters.html) but I've yet to try it out.

Any suggestions much appreciated

1) According to official Eir docs its a no on this, however KN/OpenEir engineers in my experience are fairly easy to deal with and if you ask they might deliver but it depends on the day.

2) Yep, this is probbably the best idea but use a power supply with an amperage rated far above what the OLT requires as you will loose some in the cable.

3) You could use PoE injectors and Extractors for 12 volts, same as they use for CCTV cameras but you will most likely loose 1000mb/s capabilities.

4) No, the OLT is what auth's you with the network and they will not let you put your own in, even though you can authenticate using PPPoE over the fiber network (eir@eir.ie broadband1) which on a another note is a neat trick to get two IP's on a fiber connection.

TL;DR Maybe, but you might not have the choice to try any fancy techniques to get power out to the box if they simply say no it has to be put inside.

YellowBucket

Could you buy some flexible duct and push it over the CAT6 all the way back to the box? If you firmly secure the cable at the box or have someone hold it to ensure it doesn’t get pulled into the wall, you should (assuming it’s not kinked or stapled) be able to push a narrow duct all the way down to it, using the cable as guide wire.

Once you’ve done that you can pull the CAT6 out and the fibre could be delivered though the duct, assuming Eir is willing to try.

m99T

YellowBucket wrote: »

Could you buy some flexible duct and push it over the CAT6 all the way back to the box? If you firmly secure the cable at the box or have someone hold it to ensure it doesn’t get pulled into the wall, you should (assuming it’s not kinked or stapled) be able to push a narrow duct all the way down to it, using the cable as guide wire.

Once you’ve done that you can pull the CAT6 out and the fibre could be delivered though the duct, assuming Eir is willing to try.

KN will pull it but ONLY if you replace the CAT6 with a pull rope, they wont remove copper cables. Again most installers that you will get will be fine with actually using the cable as a pull cord but if you want to make sure then you would need to replace this cable with a pullcord/rope to comply with their SOP's

YellowBucket

I don’t know why we don’t just install lots of flexible duct to the boxes here, as is standard practice in say, France. It means you can easily push any new type of cable through without fuss.

We seem to be very lacking in systems, or locked into rather cumbersome British approaches.

Just as an example: if you’re putting in a socket or switch on the continent, there’s a standard round back “box”. This comes with a standard drill bit/core tool. So to install a box you simply mark the centres point. If it’s double or triple you just mark multiple points using a template.

Use a decent drill. Fit the core bit. Place the centre of it exactly where you want - squeeze trigger and you’ve a hole for a box. No messy gouging or cutting and plastering up.

In general wiring up FTTH is a breeze over there as the phone line typically was ducted right into the garage in most houses and from there usually there are ducts to the first phone wall jack.

Not only that, but new build has required data points in all the main rooms and a comms panel, much like a fuse box type arrangement, but for patching Ethernet.

That’s a typical new build / required French house setup: https://www.electricien-collobrieres-sea-hager.fr/fr/article/tableau-gamma-hager-avec-coffret-de-communication-villa-a-la-valette-du-var-83

ED E

You can deliver up to 90W via PoE. That should be PLENNNNTY for the ONT.

Power consumption Static power: 7.45 W
Maximum power consumption: 12 W
Power specifications Power adapter input: 100 to 240 V AC, 50–60 Hz
System power supply: 11–14 VDC, 1 A

You could probably just feed the 12v directly over the CAT5 at shorter ranges with no issues.



The problem is KNN agreeing to do it.

rosscullen

YellowBucket wrote: »

Could you buy some flexible duct and push it over the CAT6 all the way back to the box? If you firmly secure the cable at the box or have someone hold it to ensure it doesn’t get pulled into the wall, you should (assuming it’s not kinked or stapled) be able to push a narrow duct all the way down to it, using the cable as guide wire.

Once you’ve done that you can pull the CAT6 out and the fibre could be delivered though the duct, assuming Eir is willing to try.

Thanks for a great suggestion @YellowBucket but its a tight run all the way back.

rosscullen

Thank you everyone for the feedback and suggestions... think I need to go back to the drawing board on this one. Much appreciated

rosscullen

##UPDATE##
So I plugged in the POE Splitter (commonly used in CCTV) into the Huawei HG8010H and voila... I'm getting a POWER LED and an LOS LED (blinking). Great thing was it didn't require the ethernet cable coming out of the slitter to be plugged to function (so I've a spare CAT6 cable in the wall which I can use for 1000Mb/s from the ONT to the switch!

Thanks for all your help

rosscullen

So in the end, I didn't mount the ONT outdoors as recommended by the guys in KN Circet. I installed a small hatch in the ceiling (bought on Amazon) where I knew I had the 2 x CAT 6 cables running to outdoors.

I was able to use one cable to run 1GB ethernet back to the router. I was then able to run power over PoE using the PoE adapter mentioned previously. This is powered off my Ubiquiti UniFi Switch. There have been no issues with this setup over the 4 months switching to Fiber.

Hope this information is of use to others in the future.

CoffeeBean2

Hey resscullen, thanks for the informative thread. Could you post an photo of your OTN install?

I'm facing the same problem now and have a single CAT 6 cable running from the standard external Cable / Telephone box back to my comms room. I have purchased a 1gb TP-Link injector TP-POE150s and splitter TP-POE10R, and want to have the ONT device installed into that external cable box. Failing that, I was thinking about having an IP rated box mounted on the external wall beside the cable box which could safely store the ONT device.

The POE Injector / Splitter should do the trick, and also deliver 1gb connection speeds at the same time on the single cable. I really want to avoid drilling into the walls of the house as it is airtight.

rosscullen

Hi @CoffeeBean2

So my setup is slightly different... I had 2 x CAT6 cable running through the ceiling and out to the box outside. The Huawei ONT box doesn't support PoE and the ISP's here won't allow you to use your own ONT.

So one cable was used for power. The converter I have is for PoE to power adapter. The other cable is direct Gb ethernet.

The guys from KN who do the install for most ISP's won't install the device outside because the ONT isn't outdoor rated. Initially they did a few but were back within weeks because of water damage. I believe they revised their installation policies to reflect such and have health and safety inspectors who 'drop by' occasionally.

Below are some pics to explain better. Hope this helps you on your journey.


https://imgur.com/a/DAVS1sM

CoffeeBean2

Awesome job, thanks for the photos, gives me some good ideas.

gerchanovsky

I have the same problem, new build house, cat 5e ethernet cable, a fibre optic cable, and a plug socket left out in the telecoms boxes, but kn won't use any of them. They're insisting they can only drill in to the house, and render the comms systems useless... kn have been out 4 times (with different providers). 3 had no problem putting the terminal in telecoms box (1 asked for plug socket to be moved, the next said the wire was dead (its not) and the third said he'd be back in 30 mins (he wasn't), and the 4th who came just said no. If I get my own terminal, and put it in a waterproof box so they just need to plug into it, do you think they would use it?
They refuse to connect to the fibre optic cable (I said I'd pay for someone to connect to it for them, but I just got a clueless answer)

rosscullen

gerchanovsky wrote: »

I have the same problem, new build house, cat 5e ethernet cable, a fibre optic cable, and a plug socket left out in the telecoms boxes, but kn won't use any of them. They're insisting they can only drill in to the house, and render the comms systems useless... kn have been out 4 times (with different providers). 3 had no problem putting the terminal in telecoms box (1 asked for plug socket to be moved, the next said the wire was dead (its not) and the third said he'd be back in 30 mins (he wasn't), and the 4th who came just said no. If I get my own terminal, and put it in a waterproof box so they just need to plug into it, do you think they would use it?
They refuse to connect to the fibre optic cable (I said I'd pay for someone to connect to it for them, but I just got a clueless answer)

I would have previously thought a waterproof box would have been sufficient but as I researched more... unless there's some sort of air circulation, condensation will eventually creep in and potentially short out your ONT box. It might survive for a few months but with our Irish weather, a couple of damp days in succession might have their way... it's a tough one...

CoffeeBean2

gerchanovsky wrote: »

They refuse to connect to the fibre optic cable (I said I'd pay for someone to connect to it for them, but I just got a clueless answer)

I just purchased 50 meters of fibre optic cable and was about to go to the trouble of running it 20 meters from the comm room to the outside cable box. It would not be a simple job, and if I do that, it would be pointless!

What the heck, looking on YouTube, connecting / fusing optical fibre looks like a five minute job. What reason did they give for not using it?

The ONT device that they use costs about 10 euro and that's not mass purchase. I would be happy to replace it whenever it breaks, which I'm guessing would be once every five years, the box is bone dry and I've run Raspberry Pis for longer in smaller, more damp locations without issues.

Surely, and I'm not calling your Shirley, there is a waterproof ONT device that could be purchased.

KeRbDoG

From what I've gathered from the install (be it on Eir not Siro), they seem to only install pigtails and only at the NTU. I don't believe they do any other splicing mid run so that would mean they typically couldn't utilise any unterminated fibre within a house, they would need to have another splice containment solution for the side of houses which they don't seem to have (well, not the lad in the van who do the majority of installs anywho).
If you really want it done, have the install of the standard NTU somewhere out of the way which you can get your 20m of fibre to and either rent spicing equipment, SC/APC pigtails, termination box and have at it - that what I did and it has worked a treat. The other option is the SC/APC termination kits which turn your 20m into a long patch cable. I've used those before but never seen them for sale to the general public.

m99T

gerchanovsky wrote: »

I have the same problem, new build house, cat 5e ethernet cable, a fibre optic cable, and a plug socket left out in the telecoms boxes, but kn won't use any of them. They're insisting they can only drill in to the house, and render the comms systems useless... kn have been out 4 times (with different providers). 3 had no problem putting the terminal in telecoms box (1 asked for plug socket to be moved, the next said the wire was dead (its not) and the third said he'd be back in 30 mins (he wasn't), and the 4th who came just said no. If I get my own terminal, and put it in a waterproof box so they just need to plug into it, do you think they would use it?
They refuse to connect to the fibre optic cable (I said I'd pay for someone to connect to it for them, but I just got a clueless answer)

Who said that it has to be drilled in? Does your fiber cable come up and into that box? Should be absolutely no reason for them not to put the NTE and OLT into that box if you request it. It might not be the greatest idea as it may get wet but again no reason that it shouldn't be done. Did someone at KN tell you this?

Ignore me this has all been said already.

Zyox

Just wondering what any of you guys used successfully as a PoE injector for the Huawei HG8010H.

Similar issue in that I've moved my ONT into attic away from the unifi gear, and most importantly, my UPS. When the power dies everything stays up thanks to the UPS except for the Huawei ONT. Want to run POE up to it to keep it going during powercut.

So for those that have done it what injector have you used and has it stood the test of time?

Cheers.