Deer Licences 2020

Pkiernan

5000 emails like that might get some progress

Grizzly 45

I sent mine in within 3/4 weeks s depending on getting the permissions back,so it was April as well,and zero sign of it sofar. If they are doing this alphabetical,you and me should be in the same time frame going by our real names. So this tells me that this year,it has been divied up by the home workers and is all over the shop.
A deadline would be a smart thing to do in any case.

Even smarter would be this.simply give everyone for life,unless you die,are caught actin the bolix,or retire from hunting,and formally notify them a licsence number.
To renew it,you still have to get the paperwork in by a certain date,Say May 31st? You can send it by email or for those couputer challenged or prefer pen and ink on paper. that is your returns, farmers permissions,Coilte lets and this hangover from the 1970s ,your gun and ammo details.

Once thats in the dept, its all on your file and for your entire lifetime of a hunter. Permissions,bag returns,the whole lot .Add in if you want that you are CSI or HCAP or other qualified too And if it is all good,Boom! your liscense is active for Sept 1st.All it takes then is a phone call or a PDW scan of a file by a ranger to see are you good to go in the field if you are encounterd.

Give us another bit of card in a cheap plastic holder like our lic with our life number to prove we are liscensed,with the usual basic info and thats the ID part settled

There goes the need for annual paperwork,and people fiddling and faffing about in the dept.Do it traffic light system,Green,applications good to go, Orange,quiery on somthing,email/letter/phone call from the dept,put lic on pending. Red, major problem and number is stopped until problem sorted .

How difficult is a system like this in this day and age?

Rows Grower

Pkiernan wrote: »

Folks - Light a candle - don't curse the darkness:

Dear Minister,

with respect to the understandable delay in processing of 2020/1 Deer Hunting Licenses, can you extend the hunting rights for persons who were granted a Deer License in 2019/2020?

Thank you, and best regards,



By the way - the Minister is Malcom Noonan, email: malcolm.noonan@oireachtas.ie

I sent that email and also just contacted my local TD and asked him to contact the Minister about the delays and he said he'll be on to him.

hiddenmongoose

Pkiernan wrote: »

Folks - Light a candle - don't curse the darkness:

Dear Minister,

with respect to the understandable delay in processing of 2020/1 Deer Hunting Licenses, can you extend the hunting rights for persons who were granted a Deer License in 2019/2020?

Thank you, and best regards,



By the way - the Minister is Malcom Noonan, email: malcolm.noonan@oireachtas.ie

great idea...but how is the delay understandable? seems The vast majority of people did not get a licence,including aot of people who applied before the recommended deadline. NPWS ''worked'' from home(or so we are led to believe) not mars.
Covid is being used as an excuse here.

Pkiernan

hiddenmongoose wrote: »

great idea...but how is the delay understandable? seems The vast majority of people did not get a licence,including aot of people who applied before the recommended deadline. NPWS ''worked'' from home(or so we are led to believe) not mars.
Covid is being used as an excuse here.

Telling a minister that the Public Service is using Covid as an excuse for poor performance might not help in getting licenses issued

hiddenmongoose

Pkiernan wrote: »

Telling a minister that the Public Service is using Covid as an excuse for poor performance might not help in getting licenses issued

Telling the truth you mean?..How could it be any worse, they are now saying it could be October by time some people get the licences

Pkiernan

hiddenmongoose wrote: »

Telling the truth you mean?..How could it be any worse, they are now saying it could be October by time some people get the licences

Dear Minister,

Wheres my frigging license?
Theres no excuses you lazy gits.


Yours angrily
Hiddenmongoose.



Doess that make you feel better?


:-)

hiddenmongoose

Pkiernan wrote: »

Dear Minister,

Wheres my frigging license?
Theres no excuses you lazy gits.


Yours angrily
Hiddenmongoose.



Doess that make you feel better?


:-)

No ...As I have mine

Heavy handed

Well they somehow issued a DHL to a person I know that doesn’t own a deer rifle a anymore. Surrendered it before the end of last season. Two weeks ago a letter comes in the door with this year deer license. He never even applied for it.

kunekunesika

Just curious, any difference between those that applied on line and those that posted?? I emailed may or June. No problems, arrived in the first round. The fact some are working from home, the e versions would seem easy.

cookimonster

kunekunesika wrote: »

Just curious, any difference between those that applied on line and those that posted?? I emailed may or June. No problems, arrived in the first round. The fact some are working from home, the e versions would seem easy.

No, as there were block applications sent in from various groups yet only some of those were posted back.
There is no continuity between application time or type and returns of license.

The pigeon man

I've sent an email to the minister. I don't hunt deer myself but it's important that we as hunters stand together.

hiddenmongoose

The pigeon man wrote: »

I've sent an email to the minister. I don't hunt deer myself but it's important that we as hunters stand together.

If more within the shooting community thought like this we would be in a better place. Fair play to you

Grizzly 45

Heavy handed wrote: »

Well they somehow issued a DHL to a person I know that doesn’t own a deer rifle a anymore. Surrendered it before the end of last season. Two weeks ago a letter comes in the door with this year deer license. He never even applied for it.

Only in Ireland!!!:D:rolleyes:

viper123

Pkiernan wrote: »

Telling a minister that the Public Service is using Covid as an excuse for poor performance might not help in getting licenses issued

Might be worth asking why is this year no different to last year and others before it when covid wasnt an excuse for late issuing of licences, what were the process changes they promised back then (and never delivered) to get rid of the delay?

hiddenmongoose

viper123 wrote: »

Might be worth asking why is this year no different to last year and others before it when covid wasnt an excuse for late issuing of licences, what were the process changes they promised back then (and never delivered) to get rid of the delay?

Seeing as covid and staff working from home is being used as the excuse( as we all know is bull**** as its the same crap every year) there are a few questions for the new minister( who is also clearly anti shooting seeing as today he voted in favor of the leadshot ban which will now severely affect shooters in Ireland).


questions such as,


What control measures were put in place to ensure staff were productive while ''working'' from home, such as weekly productivity targets?


Why did supervisors/DEPT.heads not realise earlier that productivity was an issue and licences would not be issued on time?


If supervisors did realise there was an issue why was it not brought to the light sooner so it could possibly be addressed in a timely manner, such as an extension to the previous licence



Will the minister be undertaking a review of the incompetency of the wildlife licencing unit ?



Will the minister hold those responsible for the lack of productivity while ''working'' from home to their actions ?


Surely a ''Green'' minister can see fit to do away with such an old method of licencing involving so much paperwork and introduce a more modern streamlined ''green'' electronic system.



And while people are emailing him maybe it would be no harm to voice your displeasure at him voting for the EU leadshot ban.

Grizzly 45

So apparently we are looking at a 4-week backlog, and one person per day in the office to do the paperwork!!!
FS if this was in the private sector,they'd all be on the dole.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Seriously,we need our orgs and ourselves to start addressing this disaster of a dept.Its creaking at best in good times and now is broken in COVID times,and tBH it isnt even fair on the people working in it.

Zxthinger

I wrote to the minister several times requesting that last years licences where simply renewed with the caveat that you needed to have valid permissions etc etc. I relayed the declared NPWS delays and highlighted the difficulties of remote working.. I received no response.
The ministers team didn't even have a generic answer to keep me in a holding pattern.

A gang of dummies that know nothing of country ways is putting politely.

garrettod

I think everyone needs to start pushing the Minister a bit harder - politely, but firmly. The suggestion to give everyone who held a licence last year and automatic extension for this year would be simple, fast and effective.

Whatever about issuing licences for life, I see no reason why they couldn't issue three year hunting licences, even roll them over with your relevant licence, if they wanted to keep the expiry dates in sync.

Pkiernan

I didn't realise that Malcolm Noonan is from the Green Party, which may explain a lot.

Zxthinger

garrettod wrote: »

I think everyone needs to start pushing the Minister a bit harder - politely, but firmly. The suggestion to give everyone who held a licence last year and automatic extension for this year would be simple, fast and effective.

Whatever about issuing licences for life, I see no reason why they couldn't issue three year hunting licences, even roll them over with your relevant licence, if they wanted to keep the expiry dates in sync.

They ignore public emails. It looks like they only answer other TDs and to a lesser extent, lower elected members.
They might have a policy that they have to write and post a letter to a written complaint or self representation.

Email is too easily ignored.

Grizzly 45

Apparently NARGC* met with the dept on Tuesday this week.The minister was a complete waste of space and had zero clue about this or the situation.Stutterd and hamanahamaned his thru the meeting.NPWS giving out about time wasted replying to emails.The response,if you gave people a time frame and information as to the situation, people would stop asking about it.:rolleyes:

Re the extension,it is apprently "against the wildlife act". As is I'm sure extending DOEs and drivers liscenses,but we are not in normal times,so why should deer hunting liscenses be an exception? Apprently another meeting in Oct 6th,maybe they could challenge the dept to point out this anamoly in the law or wildlife act that prevents a minister from issueing an extension in times of national crisis or pandemics???:rolleyes::rolleyes:


* WADI,IDS,and all the others whose this, is supposedly their beat,have been remarkably absent and not very vocal on this matter...Would have thought this is their moment now?

garrettod

Zxthinger wrote: »

They ignore public emails. It looks like they only answer other TDs and to a lesser extent, lower elected members.
They might have a policy that they have to write and post a letter to a written complaint or self representation.

Email is too easily ignored.

I got a reply to my email, albeit it came from the Minister's Private Secretary, and wasn't very encouraging.

I'm going to reply and press the issue a little further, as I don't think anything will ever change, unless we all keep calling for change.

garrettod

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

...

* WADI,IDS,and all the others whose this, is supposedly their beat,have been remarkably absent and not very vocal on this matter...Would have thought this is their moment now ?

I agree 100%

Unfortunitely, we are not good as a nation, when it comes to standing up for ourselves.

If the representative groups won't act on their own initiative, then they should be pushed to act, for the benefit of those they supposedly represent.

Kramer

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

is supposedly their beat,have been remarkably absent and not very vocal on this matter...Would have thought this is their moment now?

Their moment to sidle in, tie licensing into mandatory testing, expensive testing only they can offer, ultimately becoming the ones issuing licences?

Probably just me being cynical - never would anything like that happen in the target shooting/hunting communities.

There's certainly no historical evidence of "representative" groups trying to grab control, is there?

.

Grizzly 45

But that can cut both ways.Why should we pay them a damn red cent in membership anymore if they will not act on a crisis,that is in their field of responsibility to the people they supposedly repersent?

NARGC had to go and start pushing ,again,on somthing that is not their remit,when we have two or more Irish organisations that are specifically set up and take money off their members to supposedly repersent their intrests.

This is a very serious damage situation to both WADI and IDS and whomever else in the fact they are showing themselves to be helpless and not as in with the dept as they like to think and a serious loss of confidence in the organisation to their members.They can kiss membership numbers and fees goodbye,as they are doing to their HICAP course in the next months if they dont act.

Plus there is no point in the WADI secetary throwing his teddy out of his pram ,because someone had the treremity to point out this lack of action out on FB.Writing letters to the dept and putting that on your web page doesnt really qualify as positive and affirmative action.

Grizzly 45

garrettod wrote: »

I got a reply to my email, albeit it came from the Minister's Private Secretary, and wasn't very encouraging.

I'm going to reply and press the issue a little further, as I don't think anything will ever change, unless we all keep calling for change.

Any chance of a paraphrased or content of what it said?Or was it a generic "Please FO you annyoyng peasant,we know about this,and will deal with it in our own time" response?:rolleyes:

garrettod

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Any chance of a paraphrased or content of what it said?... :

Sure...


On behalf of Mr. Malcolm Noonan, T.D. Minister of State for Heritage and Electoral Reform, I wish to acknowledge receipt of your recent email regarding Deer Hunting Licences.

National Parks and Wildlife Service is currently processing deer hunting licences for the 2020/21 season. Almost 2,000 licences have issued to date and the NPWS will continue to process all remaining applications.

The processing of these licences has been delayed due to the ongoing Covid-19 crisis and the effect that this has had on working arrangements. Because of this, not all applicants will have received their licence for the start of the deer hunting season on 1 September. Our staff will strive to meet the demands to ensure all licences are issued as quickly as possible, despite the restraints of the current restrictions.

NPWS have received queries asking if they can hunt after 1 September with their previous licence. The provisions in the Wildlife Acts do not allow for the extension of deer hunting licences and licences for last season automatically expired on 31 July this year.

It is the case that deer hunters need a valid current deer licence in order to hunt legally. Hunting and farming bodies have already been informed of this legal position.

Yours sincerely



Grizzly 45 wrote: »

... "Please FO you annyoyng peasant,we know about this,and will deal with it in our own time" response?:rolleyes:

So, as you can see, it was exactly what you expected... Really annoyed me tbh.

Sika98k

garrettod wrote: »

Sure...


On behalf of Mr. Malcolm Noonan, T.D. Minister of State for Heritage and Electoral Reform, I wish to acknowledge receipt of your recent email regarding Deer Hunting Licences.

National Parks and Wildlife Service is currently processing deer hunting licences for the 2020/21 season. Almost 2,000 licences have issued to date and the NPWS will continue to process all remaining applications.

The processing of these licences has been delayed due to the ongoing Covid-19 crisis and the effect that this has had on working arrangements. Because of this, not all applicants will have received their licence for the start of the deer hunting season on 1 September. Our staff will strive to meet the demands to ensure all licences are issued as quickly as possible, despite the restraints of the current restrictions.

NPWS have received queries asking if they can hunt after 1 September with their previous licence. The provisions in the Wildlife Acts do not allow for the extension of deer hunting licences and licences for last season automatically expired on 31 July this year.

It is the case that deer hunters need a valid current deer licence in order to hunt legally. Hunting and farming bodies have already been informed of this legal position.

Yours sincerely



So, as you can see, it was exactly what you expected... Really annoyed me tbh.

So this is pretty much the same reply that the WDAI amongst other organisations received. I don’t think that any organisation be it the NARGC, WDAI, IDS has anymore influence, if any, with the NPWS.

All can make representations , that’s pretty much it. The NARGC May be able to send staff up to Dublin pretty smartly. That’s fine they’re staff, receiving a salary. The other organisations as far as I am aware are all voluntary, unpaid and receive no financial benefit for their work.

To clear up a few misconceptions. The HCAP is run by the Deer Alliance. All revenues generated are retained by the Deer Alliance. People complain about the cost. Well it probably isn’t cheap to hire the Midlands range for a day. The HCAP evolved through a requirement by Coillte that hunters on their land had some form of qualification. Nothing else.

Country Sports Ireland run a similar course. It’s a one day course. Cheaper and quicker. The Irish Deer Society were the first to run a course some 20 (?) years ago. I did it back then and remember being appalled at the standard of marksmanship at a range. Having done the Country Sports Ireland course last year things really haven’t improved.

If people can’t put 3 rounds into a 4” circle at a range God help the deer.
Ireland is a country where deer stalking is very under regulated. Get permission, get a deer licence, get a rifle, you’re good to go. FFS !

Norway, Sweden, every year you have to pass your range test on the running moose target. Germany, the jagdschein, a long, expensive and extensive curriculum to achieve your hunters licence. Denmark, again an obligatory course to earn your “jagttegn”. We can go on and on.

Doing these courses gives you the barest essentials of benefit in the field.
Experience, your footfall on the ground, watching, waiting, patience. These are some of the things that make a successful, experienced hunter
“Walk a little, look a lot.” Old Indian hunting proverb. Personally I think hunters should be mentored for at least one season by a stalker with several years of experience.

Anyway have a good hunting season.

Grizzly 45

Sika98k wrote: »

So this is pretty much the same reply that the WDAI amongst other organisations received. I don’t think that any organisation be it the NARGC, WDAI, IDS has anymore influence, if any, with the NPWS.

They are going to have to get together and push this,because seriously the system in the WLU,even in normal times has been an utter joke for decades now.Every year we have the same ol ding dong of lads asking about liscenses here and on social media.we are sending them ,mostly the same information every year,and runnig about chasing landowners and farmers for permissions that they have given for in many cases years now. What revelance is it now what ammo weight and serial numbers we give them?This is a holdover from the 1970s troubles in NI,and they cant even verify this with aGS because of data protection laws. I could go on,but seriously,this methodology and system they are using is not fit for purpose anymore when you have +/- 5000 liscenses to issue these days.

All can make representations , that’s pretty much it. The NARGC May be able to send staff up to Dublin pretty smartly. That’s fine they’re staff, receiving a salary. The other organisations as far as I am aware are all voluntary, unpaid and receive no financial benefit for their work.

I do belive WADI gets annual subscriptions from membership?Dont be afraid to put your hands in your own pocket for a tank of petrol and a sanger and to repersent your sports lads:P I'm unemployed at the moment since last year,and run a totally unpaid chapter of an EU lobby group,and still managed a 2day hop to Berlin to repersent Ireland with the magazine ban,as well as meeting the DOJ in Dec on the same topic.If a "dolie":rolleyes: like me can do it....

To clear up a few misconceptions. The HCAP is run by the Deer Alliance. All revenues generated are retained by the Deer Alliance. People complain about the cost. Well it probably isn’t cheap to hire the Midlands range for a day. The HCAP evolved through a requirement by Coillte that hunters on their land had some form of qualification. Nothing else.

Perfectbly understandable,if Coilte wants that...Its their land.So long as it stays there,but there has been "mission creep" over the years to push this out of Coilte onto people who want nothing to do with Coilte lets.IE the majority of deer hunters here.

Ireland is a country where deer stalking is very under regulated. Get permission, get a deer licence, get a rifle, you’re good to go. FFS !

Thankfully!!!the thought of something like the EU l hunting liscenses here and the utter clusterfuk that would create in ego and power trips both in govt depts and shooting organisations would give anyone a nightmare. Plus about 75% of the "jagd schein" would be utterly irrevelant in an Irish context. We dont have a langauge of hunters or a whole bunch of traditions that are part of the European hunting lore.I'd love to see the H & S requirements too for people building a high seat or tower here in the practical part of those EU type exams.:eek: Or where we get the timber for it in our "forests" TBH what we do have here on training for staling,maybe if the gutting and carcass prep nd butchering was included, posibly also "how to zero your rifle with 2 shots"is more than adaquate for Ireland.:)

. Personally I think hunters should be mentored for at least one season by a stalker with several years of experience.

Who trains and checks the trainers on this? Just having X number of years might give you experiance,but you can have bad habits that you are passing on as well.:)

Anyway have a good hunting season

.

IF we have liscenses to do so that is!:rolleyes: