Deer Licences 2020

Sika98k

Thankfully!!!the thought of something like the EU l hunting liscenses here and the utter clusterfuk that would create in ego and power trips both in govt depts and shooting organisations would give anyone a nightmare. Plus about 75% of the "jagd schein" would be utterly irrevelant in an Irish context. We dont have a langauge of hunters or a whole bunch of traditions that are part of the European hunting lore.I'd love to see the H & S requirements too for people building a high seat or tower here in the practical part of those EU type exams.:eek: Or where we get the timber for it in our "forests" TBH what we do have here on training for staling,maybe if the gutting and carcass prep nd butchering was included, posibly also "how to zero your rifle with 2 shots"is more than adaquate for Ireland.:)

Seriously ? This is a windup. It’s written in Jest,or to get a rise out of us.
How many attend those courses ? They’re actually pretty much fully booked showing that people are keen to learn and further their knowledge.

Grizzly 45

No You need to read what I wrote and not interpret it as a critique .:rolleyes:
I said the courses as they stand are adequate for Ireland.Or what do you think needs to be added from Europe to make it more useful to Irish deer hunters?
Botany?Zoology?Hunting horn music calls?

Zxthinger

Are licences still being issued?

Grizzly 45

Zxthinger wrote: »

Are licences still being issued?

They had better be ,or there will be a court case as to why people were not issued them and others were in the 20/21 season without good reason.

Half-cocked

Just posted off a hen license application, I send it in same time every year. Be interesting to see if there are any delays there. My deer license arrived last week, just as well I wasn't planning to head out during the opening week.

Sika98k

Zxthinger wrote: »

Are licences still being issued?

Yes, a few people got them this morning. Probably others with whom I am not in contact did also.

Zxthinger

It's not good enough. We should be complaining and waging a campaign against the nonsense of the NPWS operating a 'business as normal' policy when in truth the dogs in the street knew that it would go south with remote working..
The minister was advised but took no action.. all BS that needs highlighting.

Any one know an deputies that will ask the minister the hard questions

Grizzly 45

Tomorrow is apparently the official day for these lot to go and print off more licenses. So if any of you have the direct numbers, might be worth giving them a bell, and on every Tuesday hence?
Malcom.noonan @oirchteas.ie is his email address and he is on FB as well
Any of you down around Carlow Kilkenny as that is where he hails from ?
Have contcted two TDs and a senator on this sofar with ......Crckets...Sofar in replies.:rolleyes:

By rights,I think we need more of a long term strategy to get this part of his dept sorted out and fit for purpose than just demanding our liscenses.Because if this Covid craic continues on possibly for another 3 or 4 years.Do we want to be putting up with this BS every season?As well as maybe this BS with wood piegon again next season??
Would it not behove ,WADI,IDS,ICS,NARGC,etc .To get together now at this stage with this dept and ask 2 or more questions?

1] If this continues with the liscense delay,and in respect that other more critical documentation has been extended by other Irish Govt depts.WHY cannot/will not the minister not extend the same courtsey to 2019 liscensed holders?
Will he point out exactly in the act where tis is a prohibition?

2] What does the minister,the wildlife liscensing unit intend to do to prevent this happening again next season ?And will he consider positive input from affected parties to assist in upgrading the liscensing system?

Kramer

Zxthinger wrote: »

Any one know an deputies that will ask the minister the hard questions

Such a deputy doesn't exist I'm afraid .

Rows Grower

I contacted my local TD about 2 weeks ago and asked him to make representations to the minister which he did and he was given the stock answer that the delay was due to Covid 19 but that licences would be issued soon, especially renewals.

He just rang me there again to say he had followed up the issue again this week and had gotten more or less the same reply, hopefully it will be sorted out very soon as it's gone beyond a joke now at this stage. It's not like there is a whole lot of work involved, it's literally a case of rubber stamping the renewals and issuing them.

Grizzly 45

Thinking, Lets have a competition "The last licensed deer hunter of 2020"?:P

garrettod

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Thinking, Lets have a competition "The last licensed deer hunter of 2020"?:P

While that's funny, the underlying issue certainly isn't

Grizzly 45

Kind of a cunning plan,being formed with this idea.:cool:

bud2000

Got mine today

richiedel123

2 of my friends got there's today. I'm still waiting

Grizzly 45

087 365 6253 Min Noonans phone number from his FB page. Maybe we should all give him a bell on this issue?

Zxthinger

richiedel123 wrote: »

2 of my friends got there's today. I'm still waiting

When did you pals submit there applications ?

richiedel123

Zxthinger wrote: »

When did you pals submit there applications ?

Mid April!!!! another friend got his yesterday and he sent it in on the 24th of June

Grizzly 45

So there are some numbers circulating on social media of those licenses done...NOT EVEN HALF of them are done yet!!! 2000 out of 5000 sofar.

I'm beginning to wonder is there now a case for legal action against the NPWS? Because if this is true then it is gross negligence and incompetence,that they knew with the COVID that it would be impossible to issue all these licenses by Sept 1st using their traditional means,and only being one day a week in the office to print these liscenses?Esp if they have had them since early April and only started on them at home in July,what the Hell were they doing with them for the 8 weeks???
This is now Day18 of the season,and if they carry on like this some of us will be getting them on Feb 28th 2021...:mad: Seriously, arse kicking is now required by our organisations or by legal breifs.

hiddenmongoose

What was the productivity inspections/checks protocols to ensure staff were working while ''working '' from home?


Why did these checks not highlight the backlog that was going to ensue?



Why did management not highlight this to the minister in a timely manner rather than lying saying the majority of licences would be issued by Sept 1st?


What sanctions/ repercussions will staff face for the lack of productivity while ''working'' from home on full pay?


Either Staff were not working or management were not working or what seems most likely neither were working.


Blaming Covid is a cop out, the WLU is a cluster most years and needs overhauling and yes covid would have compounded the issue but it is blatantly clear the staff at all levels in the WLU were clearly not working to an acceptable level while remote working.



Representative bodies should be making a bigger more vocal issue on this and not taking the latest statement from the minister as good enough.


We should all individually be contacting our representative bodies and telling them we want more action on this issue along with us all individually contacting the minister .

cookimonster

Apologies if I am repeating myself but-

I will give them some allowance for the Covid restrictions, but something does smack of some collusion here, not aimed at hunters, but maybe a lash out at the powers to be. Do ye remember the not so distant debacle over late licences a few years back (I don't hold with lads returning late applications but I knew personally of lads that put them in before the deadline and didn't get anything back until late September).

I have been in contact with the licensing unit over the last 6 months and have found a very strange, if not somewhat consistent offical attitude emanating from the department. I had a few chats with various staff there and I have come to the conclusion that someone in authority (not the Ministers -both the out going and the incumbent, as neither, regardless of politics have a clue) is acting the arse....
Again I don't belive this is an anti hunting thing, I just think that some one in charge is been over cautious in any decision making. My rationale been the recent trend to refuse certain licenses that up until recently have been no bother getting and are in fact provided for under the act. The general gist for refusal is that it would be illegal.
Examples-
- Bird Derogation- specifically pigeons (over turned
thankfully)
- Fox Calls - refused - illegal under the act (allegedly)
- Corvid Decoys -refused - illegal under the act (allegedly)
- The offer to issues a licence for Pigeon Decoys (personal
experience)
- Refusal to extend DHL (refused - illegal under the act
(allegedly), but quite ok for other departments to do so.

This reminds me of when a over cautious (Windy Fecker) CO takes over an army unit and the whole tempo of the unit changes. Over thinking of decisions and responsibilities, old expressions 'Make no decisions, Make no problems!'

kunekunesika

Kinda agree with cookimonster, the staff on the ground have been amazingly flexible. Not too many Depts or sections will accept an email of an image of an official form. They have rang me more than once when processing section 42 returns, as they couldn't read a number clearly, rather than posting it back to me. All helpful.
Same thing happened in the dept of the marine, a new boss refused to sign off anything until they were 110%satisfied, especially all the old stuff that the predecessors had signed off unquestionably for years. No anti marine agenda, no ministers asking for it??
That being said, it ain't good enough. Mine arrived no hassle early, but I can't imagine the frustration of those who have paid money for let's, and are just watching the post box.

Grizzly 45

This reminds me of when a over cautious (Windy Fecker) CO takes over an army unit and the whole tempo of the unit changes. Over thinking of decisions and responsibilities, old expressions 'Make no decisions, Make no problems!'

IF that is the case it's either then 2 things,incompetence for the assinged position of authorithy,command or leadership of a state.Or power for power's sake.
Both rampant in the Irish state govt and leadership,and in this case has shown that the "Do nothing,carry on as before! ABC CYA" attitude has failed woefully in NPWS case in 2020.
That dept head should have known they were looking at 5K plus of liscenses that needed to be done within 4 weeks,yet sat on them since end of June,and expected it to be done in one day a week office time with people working at home?Doing whatever to issue them...
All I can say is thank Fuk we dont pay this dept anything...Imagine this mess and you having paid for a liscense or deer tags???

Grizzly 45

Statement from the big cheese himself...Seriously WTF??? A dept that isn't computerised in this day and age, and the fact that the act doesn't allow expired licenses to be extended. But NCT's DOE's and drivers licenses could be,and there is ZERO provision for them to ve extended under the RTA?? Come on minister who are you kidding???
Whats the betting now with Dublin locked down,these liscenses wil be delayed another 3 weeks,because none of them live within the lockdown zone,and suddenly decide its non essential travel???

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2020-09-15/326/?fbclid=IwAR2H8YlDrLDggbwsy95EKUNaxxoxD_bHQMW_fQ7-pUsE1009NlwKNBxCdec#pq-answers-323_326_347

Rows Grower

Mine arrived today, what a day.

Had the first few pints in the local in over 6 months only to come home to a harp on an envelope that had great news.

I hope everyone else that is waiting gets sorted very soon.

Grizzly 45

So it has finally made the press....:rolleyes:
Think we will be writing this season off lads because of bureaucratic incompetence. :rolleyes::rolleyes: I sure hope we get our act together and make sure 2021 isnt a repeat...



https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40052849.html?fbclid=IwAR19xDRtA4cDTcJSYTqCFI1gSLy1meRRItz4lBtI4JPCqqf4SOoD_tjpg7c#.X2olqvgm5kU.facebook

garrettod

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

So it has finally made the press....:rolleyes:
Think we will be writing this season off lads because of bureaucratic incompetence. :rolleyes::rolleyes: I sure hope we get our act together and make sure 2021 isnt a repeat...

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40052849.html?fbclid=IwAR19xDRtA4cDTcJSYTqCFI1gSLy1meRRItz4lBtI4JPCqqf4SOoD_tjpg7c#.X2olqvgm5kU.facebook

So, then what box do you tick next year, when answering the question about whether you held a licence last year or not?

Worst case scenario, your don't get a licence this year, due to this fiasco, then are you compelled to do a course and pass a test that this Minister has signed off on?

I wonder if the relevant act enabled the minister for justice to extend immigration permissions ?

Richard308

Well I got my licence Middle of last month. Then last Monday I got a second, all same details but different hunter number. Wtf. Two different licences

Grizzly 45

This has occured to me.
You have a Coilte lease this year,that you paid your hard-earned cash into...Yet thru no fault of your own, you cannot make use or access this because of a Govt dept screwup on your liscense that has denied you now 23 days[23/9] of usage of your rented property... Surely there is a cause now for legal action??

It is a different story when money is involved in a situation like this,and with the Coilte and any private lets out there ,there is now in these cases.

Be like going to hire a power tool,shown that you are competent in its usage and paid your money,but the hire company being unable to give it to you,because the apprentice cant find the Hire contract form book,despite the fact you hired the exact same machine last week,and all it takes is the hire company to add the extra dates to your original contract to cover it.You urgently need to get this job done before lunch and times a wastin....Would you accept that sort of customer service?Ttrouble is you cant go anywhere else either for another machine as you are stuck with this company.

You are being denied fair usage here andby now some lads could have made the cost of the lease back in venison,in the last 3 weeks. So this is a financial loss to them as well,thru no fault of their own.
Be seriously considering getting legal advice on this if I were them.

Pkiernan

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

This has occured to me.
You have a Coilte lease this year,that you paid your hard-earned cash into...Yet thru no fault of your own, you cannot make use or access this because of a Govt dept screwup on your liscense that has denied you now 23 days[23/9] of usage of your rented property... Surely there is a cause now for legal action??

It is a different story when money is involved in a situation like this,and with the Coilte and any private lets out there ,there is now in these cases.

Be like going to hire a power tool,shown that you are competent in its usage and paid your money,but the hire company being unable to give it to you,because the apprentice cant find the Hire contract form book,despite the fact you hired the exact same machine last week,and all it takes is the hire company to add the extra dates to your original contract to cover it.You urgently need to get this job done before lunch and times a wastin....Would you accept that sort of customer service?Ttrouble is you cant go anywhere else either for another machine as you are stuck with this company.

You are being denied fair usage here andby now some lads could have made the cost of the lease back in venison,in the last 3 weeks. So this is a financial loss to them as well,thru no fault of their own.
Be seriously considering getting legal advice on this if I were them.

This needs to be asked of the Minister.