Will there be another lockdown?

SusieBlue

bucketybuck wrote: »

What exactly is illogical about knowing that a rushed vaccine carries an inherent danger of unintended side effects? I would have thought that was simply common sense?

Vaccines take on average 6-10 years to develop and release, now we are going to have one rushed out within a year, is it not logical to have some concerns about that? It is also going to be a vaccine developed in a scenario where there are many influential vested interests demanding its release, is that not also cause for concern?

You don't need to be some anti-vaxxer to spot the clear and obvious areas for concern here. A vaccine rushed through development because desperate governments need it released? What could possibly go wrong.

I completely agree, and I said as much yesterday.
We are being so cautious in our approach to coronavirus so it’s kind of baffling that the same people in favour of all these extreme measures aren’t in favour of also taking an equally cautious approach towards a potential new vaccine.

Apparently this means you are a selfish person whose silly choice will come at a cost to elderly vulnerable people who will suffer for it.
It’s possible to have legitimate, reasonable concerns about a brand new vaccine and still be in favour of vaccines in general.
They aren’t mutually exclusive.
I would be more worried about suffering from an adverse reaction to a brand new vaccine than I would be at getting covid-19, and clearly others feel the same too.

aido79

i_surge wrote: »

I don't want to go over old ground.

The logic is undeniable, the rest are just human problems to be figured out.

Yeah human problems like paying for things because people like you think we should shutdown economies by closing borders.

i_surge

aido79 wrote: »

Yeah human problems like paying for things because people like you think we should shutdown economies by closing borders.

I want to save the economy actually, by doing the right thing in a timely fashion.

Everything else is slow bleed harikari

onlinenerd

bucketybuck wrote: »

What exactly is illogical about knowing that a rushed vaccine carries an inherent danger of unintended side effects? I would have thought that was simply common sense?

Vaccines take on average 6-10 years to develop and release, now we are going to have one rushed out within a year, is it not logical to have some concerns about that? It is also going to be a vaccine developed in a scenario where there are many influential vested interests demanding its release, is that not also cause for concern?

You don't need to be some anti-vaxxer to spot the clear and obvious areas for concern here. A vaccine rushed through development because desperate governments need it released? What could possibly go wrong.

Companies such as AstraZeneca and Pfizer already have started mass production of the their vaccine which is pending approval depending on results in third phase. Companies don't do that unless they are absolutely sure it will work or else risk losing money. Vaccines take time to manufacture yes but its amazing what a global collaborative approach can do with enough funding hence the reason why its fast tracked

onlinenerd

SusieBlue wrote: »

I completely agree, and I said as much yesterday.
We are being so cautious in our approach to coronavirus so it’s kind of baffling that the same people in favour of all these extreme measures aren’t in favour of also taking an equally cautious approach towards a potential new vaccine.

Apparently this means you are a selfish person whose silly choice will come at a cost to elderly vulnerable people who will suffer for it.
It’s possible to have legitimate, reasonable concerns about a brand new vaccine and still be in favour of vaccines in general.
They aren’t mutually exclusive.
I would be more worried about suffering from an adverse reaction to a brand new vaccine than I would be at getting covid-19, and clearly others feel the same too.

This attitude is very much problematic because a vaccine that's passed through all necessary protocols but people still fear it more than the virus. How can the solution be more scary than the problem?

A key point to note is that even if you do not take the vaccine and get coronavirus for some reason and God forbid had to be on the ventilator, there is no approved cure for this virus because at that stage it will to too late to demand for a vaccine.

bucketybuck

Companies such as AstraZeneca and Pfizer already have started mass production of the their vaccine which is pending approval depending on results in third phase. Companies don't do that unless they are absolutely sure it will work or else risk losing money. Vaccines take time to manufacture yes but its amazing what a global collaborative approach can do with enough funding hence the reason why its fast tracked

Yeah, a pharmaceutical company would have no vested interest in being first to market, would they...

Nothing you said in any way refutes the points I made.

ceadaoin.

onlinenerd wrote: »

This attitude is very much problematic because a vaccine that's passed through all necessary protocols but people still fear it more than the virus. How can the solution be more scary than the problem?

A key point to note is that even if you do not take the vaccine and get coronavirus for some reason and God forbid had to be on the ventilator, there is no approved cure for this virus because at that stage it will to too late to demand for a vaccine.

Rushed through all the necessary protocols you mean. Theres a reason vaccines usually take years to develop. The last one that was rushed through ended up causing problems. So yes, for some the risk of that is greater than the risk of a virus that has a more than 99% survival rate for the vast vast majority of people.

And no, Im not an anti vaxxer. I have and have had no problem with vaccinating my child. Just anti untested, rushed through ones I suppose

Tenzor07

onlinenerd wrote: »

Companies such as AstraZeneca and Pfizer already have started mass production of the their vaccine which is pending approval depending on results in third phase. Companies don't do that unless they are absolutely sure it will work or else risk losing money.

Companies do that for one reason Government Money... Big Pharma isn't known to be charitable when it comes to providing high demand products at cost price...
They are NOT sure how effective these vaccines will be... at best some of them are hoping for 50%...
They are being paid to make the medicines and indemnified also against being sued due to side effects...

odyssey06

Folks, I don't want to back seat mod, but there's a poll and another thread about whether people are going to take the vaccine:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=114358785#post114358785

In the context of this thread, reaslistically we're not going to have the vaccine before Christmas, so I'm wondering if we are going to go back into full lockdown \ own county phase this side of Christmas...

FintanMcluskey

onlinenerd wrote: »

This attitude is very much problematic because a vaccine that's passed through all necessary protocols but people still fear it more than the virus. How can the solution be more scary than the problem?

Because the problem isn't as great as first thought last March.

By far the most vulnerable group is those in nursing homes, and in Ireland the survival rate in nursing homes was 70% with patients who tested Covid positive.

Personally I'll watch the uptake among healthcare worker's, they will be a great indication of confidence in a vaccine.

Incidentally, the NHS regularly struggle to encourage its staff to participate in receiving the influenza vaccine. Uptake levels are sometimes as low as 50%.

SusieBlue

onlinenerd wrote: »

This attitude is very much problematic because a vaccine that's passed through all necessary protocols but people still fear it more than the virus. How can the solution be more scary than the problem?

A key point to note is that even if you do not take the vaccine and get coronavirus for some reason and God forbid had to be on the ventilator, there is no approved cure for this virus because at that stage it will to too late to demand for a vaccine.

Because there have been vaccines with 10+ years of research & trials that have ended up causing serious side effects to patients, many of which didn’t become apparent until the vaccines were distributed among the general public.

I want a very clear picture of what those side effects may be before I weigh up the risks against the benefits.
This vaccine has been rushed through the system and all the companies working on it have a vested interest in being the ‘first’ to come up with a solution.
This doesn’t inspire much faith in me.
Another key point to note is that no one here has outright said they wouldn’t get it, just that they wouldn’t be one of the first volunteers for it.
Which again, I think is a reasonable approach to take.
I want to see how others get on with it before I get it.

Look it’s all conjecture anyway because the WHO have said that the first two phases of the vaccine will only be offered to healthcare professionals and those who are high risk, and I don’t fit into either of those categories. Neither do most people.
So the choice has already been made on my behalf, other people will be getting the vaccine long before I will and I’m ok with that.

paddyisreal

I think in the last few weeks it has become crystal clear that the track and tracing is not fit for purpose therefore a lock down is a certainty. The government, hse couldn't organise a piss up so we will be in and out of lock down until a vaccine or decent treatment is available. All you have to do is look at the hse track record and it doesn't inspire any confidence whatsoever

wellwhynot

I am pro-vaccination but I would far rather catch Covid which would be a mild/moderate illness for me than a rushed vaccine. Why is that difficult for people to understand?

onlinenerd

wellwhynot wrote: »

I am pro-vaccination but I would far rather catch Covid which would be a mild/moderate illness for me than a rushed vaccine. Why is that difficult for people to understand?

I think most people are, its only if you are vulnerable or having health conditions it really affects you. I remember the swine flu vaccine years back and even though I am pro vaccine as well I didn't take it also

youandme13

wellwhynot wrote: »

I am pro-vaccination but I would far rather catch Covid which would be a mild/moderate illness for me than a rushed vaccine. Why is that difficult for people to understand?

Really? Living with my partner who is still sick from it the past 5 months I'd rather the vaccine thanks. Hes still living with bad shortness of breath and fatigue. Hes attending a cardiologist and a pulmonologist privately after many trips to A&E and the GP. There is alot of people like him still suffering that people dont understand or get!!! He was a healthy 30 year old before this and now cant even exercise properly!!!

wellwhynot

youandme13 wrote: »

Really? Living with my partner who is still sick from it the past 5 months I'd rather the vaccine thanks. Hes still living with bad shortness of breath and fatigue. Hes attending a cardiologist and a pulmonologist privately after many trips to A&E and the GP. There is alot of people like him still suffering that people dont understand or get!!! He was a healthy 30 year old before this and now cant even exercise properly!!!

Was your partner tested?

I am sorry for your partner but that is not the norm. Flu, pneumonia, high blood pressure, the common cold, anemia and many other diseases can also cause long term shortness of breath and fatigue. I hope he feels better soon.

youandme13

wellwhynot wrote: »

Was your partner tested?

I am sorry for your partner but that is not the norm. Flu, pneumonia, high blood pressure, the common cold, anemia and many other diseases can also cause long term shortness of breath and fatigue. I hope he feels better soon.

They have all been ruled out. He's had tests after tests done.

No he wasnt tested despite going to A&E twice and his GP several times from mid April this year. His GP now thinks he did have it hence referring him to specialists.

And I beg to differ there are hundreds of people in the same boat. All you have to do is Google and look at the Facebook groups.

FintanMcluskey

youandme13 wrote: »

They have all been ruled out. He's had tests after tests done.

No he wasnt tested despite going to A&E twice and his GP several times from mid April this year. His GP now thinks he did have it hence referring him to specialists.

And I beg to differ there are hundreds of people in the same boat. All you have to do is Google and look at the Facebook groups.

So does he have Covid?

youandme13

youandme13 wrote: »

They have all been ruled out. He's had tests after tests done.

No he wasnt tested despite going to A&E twice and his GP several times from mid April this year. His GP now thinks he did have it hence referring him to specialists.

And I beg to differ there are hundreds of people in the same boat. All you have to do is Google and look at the Facebook groups.

I have a running friend in his early 40's. Ran 2.45 in Dublin City Marathon last October and can't run since April after contracting covid. Semi confident I'd be ok, but you just don't know. That's why we are we're we are. In this together.

odyssey06

Deleted User wrote: »

Its openly suspected locally,that we are going to return to county/50km.limit again,once schools get going
Colleges are believed to be the big issue here and students criss-crossing the country

The government are still encouraging people to book holidays here with the tax bereak scheme, albeit advising over 70s to avoid hotels.
A lockdown like the above would put the kibosh on that.

bucketybuck

People can spout out all the anecdotes they want, I can still read the figures for myself and as it stands covid remains something I am not particularly worried about catching. Any restrictions I adhere to I do so because I dont want to infect other people.

aido79

i_surge wrote: »

I want to save the economy actually, by doing the right thing in a timely fashion.

Everything else is slow bleed harikari

Remind everyone again what you think is the right thing and how it can be done in a timely fashion.

odyssey06

bucketybuck wrote: »

People can spout out all the anecdotes they want, I can still read the figures for myself and as it stands covid remains something I am not particularly worried about catching. Any restrictions I adhere to I do so because I dont want to infect other people.

What figures on long term consequences of covid-19 infection are you relying upon?
We're only months into this pandemic, I would suggest a bit too soon to be so sure on that score.

odyssey06

odyssey06 wrote: »

What figures on long term consequences of covid-19 infection are you relying upon?
We're only months into this pandemic, I would suggest a bit too soon to be so sure on that score.

Agree. The story that stuck with me was the 20 odd year old in USA. He went to covid party and ended up on a ventilator and died. His last words were I think I made a mistake. Never be too cocky with covid it's like tempting fate. If you get and you were careful fair enough but to be that cocky is foolish.

youandme13

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

So does he have Covid?

The GP said he HAD covid. Hes suffering the after effects now along with many other people!

gral6

youandme13 wrote: »

The GP said he HAD covid. Hes suffering the after effects now along with many other people!

Without a test GP said it was Covid ! That GP is real professional I have to say !

bucketybuck

odyssey06 wrote: »

What figures on long term consequences of covid-19 infection are you relying upon?
We're only months into this pandemic, I would suggest a bit too soon to be so sure on that score.

Dont even bother with that game, we've already heard it.

Yes it is possible I could catch covid and have long term consequences, yes there are anecdotes of unlucky people affected by it.

But I do not intend to live in fear based on those unlucky few. Statistically people of my age and fitness handle covid just fine, that makes covid just another one way of many that I could die tomorrow. I will do my bit to protect others but I am not going to waste a moment of time worrying about myself.

FintanMcluskey

Deleted User wrote: »

Agree. The story that stuck with me was the 20 odd year old in USA. He went to covid party and ended up on a ventilator and died. His last words were I think I made a mistake. Never be too cocky with covid it's like tempting fate. If you get and you were careful fair enough but to be that cocky is foolish.

This is the most rural Ireland, finger pointing, I told you so gloating at some lad dying

FintanMcluskey

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

This is the most rural Ireland, finger pointing, I told you so gloating at some lad dying

Certainly not gloating.

Feel sorry for the lad.

Wouldn't wish covid on my worst enemy.

I just think caution is needed.

Hope for the best but accept it is a dangerous disease in all age brackets. Most people survive but a small percent won't.

What's with the rural Ireland thing?

SusieBlue

Many illnesses and viruses can cause long term issues for a select few unlucky people.
A bad chest infection can leave scarring on the lungs and cause long term respiratory issues. I know someone who developed epilepsy as a result of having viral meningitis as a child.
People have such tunnel vision with this, it’s like we can accept that various illnesses and death are part of life unless it’s coronavirus, in which case it must be stopped at all costs, with everything else (including other illnesses) be damned.

If we reported on heart attacks, cancers and strokes the same way we do coronavirus no one would want to ever get up out of bed again.