Will there be another lockdown?

FintanMcluskey

Deleted User wrote: »

Certainly not gloating.

Feel sorry for the lad.

Wouldn't wish covid on my worst enemy.

I just think caution is needed.

Hope for the best but accept it is a dangerous disease in all age brackets. Most people survive but a small percent won't.

What's with the rural Ireland thing?

The way you delivered the never be too cocky part sounded like old Ireland.

We have lived in utter paralysis with fear for 6 months with no end in sight.

Covid needs to be lived with, not in fear of. It seems like the restrictions will never end.

See Susies comment above, illness has always been a part of living

weldoninhio

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Dont give the vaccine to preganant women??

Or others badly compromised.....make it compulsary for everyone else.



I read somewhere,the woman overseeing 1 trial has let her daughthers in as test subjects....if its good enough for her kids,its good enough for me

And if her kids react badly to it and die, suffer catastrophic consequences, then what?

weldoninhio

onlinenerd wrote: »

Companies such as AstraZeneca and Pfizer already have started mass production of the their vaccine which is pending approval depending on results in third phase. Companies don't do that unless they are absolutely sure it will work or else risk losing money. Vaccines take time to manufacture yes but its amazing what a global collaborative approach can do with enough funding hence the reason why its fast tracked

Companies that have asked for, and been given, immunity from prosecution/liability if there are side effects?? Yeah, why would they rush through something that offers no risk and all reward??

FintanMcluskey

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The way you delivered the never be too cocky part sounded like old Ireland.

We have lived in utter paralysis with fear for 6 months with no end in sight.

Covid needs to be lived with, not in fear of. It seems like the restrictions will never end.

See Susies comment above, illness has always been a part of living

Never heard that phrase old ireland. All I can think of is the Bull McCabe.

The restrictions are very depressing alright. I have siblings in Western austrailia and everything is pretty normal for months. Recession and pay cuts but life is being lived. We can dream...

onlinenerd

weldoninhio wrote: »

Companies that have asked for, and been given, immunity from prosecution/liability if there are side effects?? Yeah, why would they rush through something that offers no risk and all reward??

This isn't all reward, they had to pass phase trials and of course we can play the waiting game of 10 years and see what the real vaccine results will deliver but I can only imagine the death toll by then and how long do you want continue this lockdown for?

For your information, it is easier to make a vaccine compared to a compound to cure corona.

Geuze

SusieBlue wrote: »

If we reported on heart attacks, cancers and strokes the same way we do coronavirus no one would want to ever get up out of bed again.

A fair point.

Approx 90 people die every day in Ireland.

However, heart/cancer are not infectious, I suppose that is one difference.

CBear1993

Very large majority of people will not pay any heed to a lockdown this time. They want their lives back and to live with this thing. A second lockdown simply cannot happen. If it does, the people will continue on as best they can. The government can not arrest or fine everyone.

It is sad but we cannot put our lives on hold for the minority

joseywhales

CBear1993 wrote: »

Very large majority of people will not pay any heed to a lockdown this time. They want their lives back and to live with this thing. A second lockdown simply cannot happen. If it does, the people will continue on as best they can. The government can not arrest or fine everyone.

It is sad but we cannot put our lives on hold for the minority

I think it might be an individual thing, I haven't felt too put out to be honest. In fact I've saved money, feel a bit healthier and not had to do unnecessary social things that I previously felt obligated to do.

I have travelled, met people in small numbers and distanced outside camping etc. I've eaten in nice restaurants and I've worked from home. Drink a lot less.

I like that I have a bit more personal space too and people don't bother me anymore, it's not so bad for me but I know others have a harder time. Of course when you are not allowed to or supposed to do something there is the taboo temptation also or others may feel like they are missing out and may feel an instinct to fight against a percieved constraint on their freedom.

CBear1993

joseywhales wrote: »

I think it might be an individual thing, I haven't felt too put out to be honest. In fact I've saved money, feel a bit healthier and not had to do unnecessary social things that I previously felt obligated to do.

I have travelled, met people in small numbers and distanced outside camping etc. I've eaten in nice restaurants and I've worked from home. Drink a lot less.

I like that I have a bit more personal space too and people don't bother me anymore, it's not so bad for me but I know others have a harder time. Of course when you are not allowed to or supposed to do something there is the taboo temptation also or others may feel like they are missing out and may feel an instinct to fight against a percieved constraint on their freedom.

Very well put, considering both sides of the coin. Bravo

odyssey06

This was noted on the restrictions thread by Kaiser - hope it's ok to post it here as it's pertinent to this topic:

Public health experts have privately warned the Government that the country may have to return to a full lockdown if the increase in Covid-19 cases continues. But there is strong resistance to any return to lockdown in Government with senior figures believing it would be impossible to manage.
Several senior sources, speaking on condition of anonymity, have confirmed to The Irish Times that the prospect of return to a full lockdown has been mooted during informal discussions in recent days. However, Government figures have made clear that they do not believe this option can be taken for social and economic reasons.
It is understood that leaders of the three Government parties and other senior figures discussed the prospect of returning to lockdown over the weekend but agreed that this could not happen, and made this clear to public health experts. The National Public Health Emergency Team (NPHET) did not recommend a return to full lockdown in its advice to Government on Monday.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-resists-calls-from-nphet-for-a-return-to-full-lockdown-1.4334326

weldoninhio

onlinenerd wrote: »

This isn't all reward, they had to pass phase trials and of course we can play the waiting game of 10 years and see what the real vaccine results will deliver but I can only imagine the death toll by then and how long do you want continue this lockdown for?

For your information, it is easier to make a vaccine compared to a compound to cure corona.

The death toll would be miniscule in Ireland if the govt had looked after nursing homes. The majority of people who get Covid either don’t know they have it or fell like they have a flu. Stop sensationalising “death tolls”.

odyssey06

odyssey06 wrote: »

This was noted on the restrictions thread by Kaiser - hope it's ok to post it here as it's pertinent to this topic:

Public health experts have privately warned the Government that the country may have to return to a full lockdown if the increase in Covid-19 cases continues. But there is strong resistance to any return to lockdown in Government with senior figures believing it would be impossible to manage.
Several senior sources, speaking on condition of anonymity, have confirmed to The Irish Times that the prospect of return to a full lockdown has been mooted during informal discussions in recent days. However, Government figures have made clear that they do not believe this option can be taken for social and economic reasons.
It is understood that leaders of the three Government parties and other senior figures discussed the prospect of returning to lockdown over the weekend but agreed that this could not happen, and made this clear to public health experts. The National Public Health Emergency Team (NPHET) did not recommend a return to full lockdown in its advice to Government on Monday.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-resists-calls-from-nphet-for-a-return-to-full-lockdown-1.4334326

Government might not have any choice.

weldoninhio

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Government might not have any choice.

Who’s going to over rule them?

joseywhales

weldoninhio wrote: »

The death toll would be miniscule in Ireland if the govt had looked after nursing homes. The majority of people who get Covid either don’t know they have it or fell like they have a flu. Stop sensationalising “death tolls”.

So we have any data on this ascertion. I can only go on anecdote here from the "have you had covid" thread in this forum.


For example:

"did keep a log of symptoms over time, but here is a condensed summary:
Slightly raised temperature
Dizzy
strange headache - like severe pressure all around circumference of the head
Light Cough
Light Runny Nose
Orange Urine
Shortness of Breath which peaked on around Day 10
Fatigure
Chest / Kidney / Heart / Lung Pains
No appetite / Lost 12kg in FIRST 20 days
Severe inflammation of intestines/stomach
Lack of Taste/Smell
Also impacted mental state and definitely caused some depression for a short period."


This person officially had mild symptoms(not hospitalized) and has had some symptoms for 5 months, that is not the flu.


Many people have no symptoms, some have mild(but if mild is the above?), Others are hospitalized.

Do we have a study yet of % of all negative outcomes? Death is not not the only measure of impact.


I am not disagreeing with you that the risks may be overblown, I just don't know if there is any foundation for your statement that the people who have mild symptoms "feel like they have the flu", what is the evidence for that?

niallo27

weldoninhio wrote: »

Companies that have asked for, and been given, immunity from prosecution/liability if there are side effects?? Yeah, why would they rush through something that offers no risk and all reward??

There is still a huge risk as if that vaccine doesn't pass the protocols it will not be used, so everything will have to be dumped. I work in this industry and believe me they are getting massive grants but to say there are no risks is wrong.

Sheepdish1

Deleted User wrote: »

Government might not have any choice.

I thought by this stage the healthcare system would have been up to the level of capacity to deal with an increase in cases. However, It seems that we just cancelled non urgent health services and rented space in private hospitals.

If we had our healthcare system in order we would be able to manage this better, I suspect that is why other countries can cope with larger amounts of cases compared to us.

So if things do rise to the level that our healthcare could be overrun I agree thet may not have a choice. This would reflect very poorly as the aim of the original lockdown was to buy us time to prepare when we were suppressing the virus.

Surely we won't need to rely on private hospitals if cases increase again ?

VillageIdiot71

odyssey06 wrote: »

This was noted on the restrictions thread by Kaiser - hope it's ok to post it here as it's pertinent to this topic:

....The Irish Times that the prospect of return to a full lockdown has been mooted during informal discussions in recent days. However, Government figures have made clear that they do not believe this option can be taken for social and economic reasons.....

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/government-resists-calls-from-nphet-for-a-return-to-full-lockdown-1.4334326

About feckin time.

I notice the HSE hasn't published a performance report since the start of the year. Normally, they'd have issued a couple by now. I guess it would be more than a little controversial if we saw how little activity is currently taking place in hospitals.

niallo27 wrote: »

There is still a huge risk as if that vaccine doesn't pass the protocols it will not be used, so everything will have to be dumped. I work in this industry ....

So way, way too early to be talking about making the vaccine compulsory, if there's a "huge risk" it won't cut the mustard.

Eduard Khil

Retail sector will collapse if a lockdown happens again regarding hospital activities Beaumont is running clinics at a reduced capacity but it's still causing a flow of early birds and people accompanied by others to block up corridors as the waiting room capacity is significantly lower than pre covid19 levels.

Atlantic Dawn

Eduard Khil wrote: »

Retail sector will collapse if a lockdown happens again regarding hospital activities Beaumont is running clinics at a reduced capacity but it's still causing a flow of early birds and people accompanied by others to block up corridors as the waiting room capacity is significantly lower than pre covid19 levels.

You can already see supermarket numbers are way down from pre-covid, people have less money to spend.

Sierra Oscar

Eduard Khil wrote: »

Retail sector will collapse if a lockdown happens again regarding hospital activities Beaumont is running clinics at a reduced capacity but it's still causing a flow of early birds and people accompanied by others to block up corridors as the waiting room capacity is significantly lower than pre covid19 levels.

What you have highlighted pretty much sums up the dilemma the Government faces.

If there is a second lockdown, the economy will collapse. However if the virus starts to spread uncontrollable in the community people won't be congregating in shops, eating in restraunts or drinking in pubs - i.e. the economy will collapse regardless.

Likewise, if the hospitals are forced to implement cuts to outpatient appointments and so on again then the health system will collapse. However if there is uncontrolled spreading of the virus in the community the hospital system will collapse regardless as it won't be able to cope with the demand.

Things are bleak and the Government knows it. We can blame the Government all we want but the stark reality is that this virus is going to cause an awful lot of destruction socially and economically yet and there is **** all the Government can do about it, to be honest.

road_high

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

You can already see supermarket numbers are way down from pre-covid, people have less money to spend.

Indeed. Shops may all be open now but big deal- if a huge percentage of the population have reduced hours or uncertain job security then they’re going to rein in the spending, big time. Not to mention no foreign money coming in which is a big part of retail spending.
For fashion they are zero events going on so no one buying expensive outfits etc

gral6

There is no Government now. Nphet is our government now.

What Username Guidelines

road_high wrote: »

Indeed. Shops may all be open now but big deal- if a huge percentage of the population have reduced hours or uncertain job security then they’re going to rein in the spending, big time. Not to mention no foreign money coming in which is a big part of retail spending.
For fashion they are zero events going on so no one buying expensive outfits etc

Another part of the catch 22. I’m still working from home and have some job security, am saving more than usual since March, but I’ve no reason to get out other than grocery shopping, exercising, and doing outdoors stuff with the kid. I used to go shopping here and there at weekends and I’ve since realised it was just staving off boredom. Filling my time now with more meaningful stuff. Had considered a new car later in the year, not gonna happen now as I don’t need it as much.

Colleagues are mostly the same. So the ones that are at home still earning are in defacto lockdown as we’re not knocking around near the office at lunch supporting retail, cafes, bars, etc.

road_high

gral6 wrote: »

There is no Government now. Nphet is our government now.

Nphet is a monster. They should never have had a public role- all they should been is an advisory role to government with no public remit. They’re going to be impossible to get rid of. They’ll want to omnipresent forever as sacred Covid is just one of many infectious killers out there

maestroamado

Sheepdish1 wrote: »

I thought by this stage the healthcare system would have been up to the level of capacity to deal with an increase in cases. However, It seems that we just cancelled non urgent health services and rented space in private hospitals.

If we had our healthcare system in order we would be able to manage this better, I suspect that is why other countries can cope with larger amounts of cases compared to us.

So if things do rise to the level that our healthcare could be overrun I agree thet may not have a choice. This would reflect very poorly as the aim of the original lockdown was to buy us time to prepare when we were suppressing the virus.

Surely we won't need to rely on private hospitals if cases increase again ?

Our current Taoiseach was Health Minister when HSE was formed.
Our last Taoiseach was a failed Health Minister.
Its time to realize that no Government are capable of running HSE.
We need experts from other countries for this job.

OP, i expect another lockdown after schools/colleges re-open...

xl500

How many of the attendees at the "Golf Dinner" reside in one of the 3 counties currently in Lockdown

Its this type of behaviour that ensures there will be another Lockdown

Its inevitable now people will ignore guidelines and come flu season we will be in deep ****

Dempo1

road_high wrote: »

Nphet is a monster. They should never have had a public role- all they should been is an advisory role to government with no public remit. They’re going to be impossible to get rid of. They’ll want to omnipresent forever as sacred Covid is just one of many infectious killers out there

I'm not sure NPHET ever had or attempted to have a public role as such, apart from obligatory press conferences. It's been or has certainly tried only to be an advisory body albeit its very telling that there has been some sneaky attempts in government to undermine it over the past few weeks, most notably FG TD'S.

To my mind, the only consistency throughout this nightmare shown has been NPHET, most notably Dr. GLYNN and Professor Nolan, as unpalatable their advice as been for some.

Hubertj

maestroamado wrote: »

Our current Taoiseach was Health Minister when HSE was formed.
Our last Taoiseach was a failed Health Minister.
Its time to realize that no Government are capable of running HSE.
We need experts from other countries for this job.

OP, i expect another lockdown after schools/colleges re-open...

I agree, dept of health and HSE are not up to it and haven’t been for many years. They just waste money and resources year on year.
NPHET and government actions are due to fact HSE has failed. They could have built additional capacity - look at what the NHS did in London with the Nighingale.
Shame on HSE, unions and successive governments for putting us in this position.

Dempo1

Hubertj wrote: »

I agree, dept of health and HSE are not up to it and haven’t been for many years. They just waste money and resources year on year.
NPHET and government actions are due to fact HSE has failed. They could have built additional capacity - look at what the NHS did in London with the Nighingale.
Shame on HSE, unions and successive governments for putting us in this position.

Not sure if anyone saw the HSE press conference yesterday, it was just a mumble jumble of stats and nonsense, I wondered had any of these senior exec's actually worked on the front line, they even have their own slick, long haired communications exec over seeing proceedings, just annoying to watch.

I've first hand experience of a public hospital during and post lockdown, care excellent but my god, they are still barely operating at 50% capacity and god forbid there is another surge. During lockdown, it felt my particular hospital was being used as the set of a creepy hoorir movie, completely abandoned and I'm still baffled as to why these hospitals were essentially closed down.

Wanderer78

road_high wrote:

Nphet is a monster. They should never have had a public role- all they should been is an advisory role to government with no public remit. They’re going to be impossible to get rid of. They’ll want to omnipresent forever as sacred Covid is just one of many infectious killers out there

Tis new and very serious though in fairness