Will there be another lockdown?

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170250#Comment_118170250

The two examples that the CMO agreed with would not do much at all. Gym populations tend to be relatively static, populated by those with a level of fitness and already subject to numbers control and other guidelines. You can put a call into a hairdresser to come to you.

marilynrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118170998#Comment_118170998

They have but so have some of the obese. That's the point I am making. People often contribute to their health issues. That's a fact of life. Unvaccinated people shouldn't be singled out ignoring that fact.

I've been suffering with health issues for quite some time now, I've always tried to be as healthy as I could be but I'm waiting to be assessed in the same system where some people who have not looked after their health are clogging up the system. That's a fact!

Do I think those who haven't made an effort to look after themselves don't deserve to be assessed or treated? No, not at all!!

I think they are a strain on the system for sure, just like people think the unvaccinated are a strain on the system, but we are ALL entitled to the same care. So one group of people should not be singled out.

If the ICU beds are scarce now during the pandemic, there could be some people in them who do not have covid but who contributed massively to their situation through their lifestyle, but nothing is said about them, the unvaxxed, however, are talked about like they're scum of the earth, like they don't deserve a hospital bed because it's all their own fault.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118171076#Comment_118171076

We are in the middle of a pandemic they should be 'singled out' as you put it if only to put pressure on those who haven't got vaccinated. What do you think happens to transplant candidates?

Mysteriouschic1

Wouldn't be surprised if there is another lockdown . The vaccine isn't stopping the spread cases still rising way higher than without the vaccine. Many virologists Geert Vanden , Robert Malone predicted the mass vaccination is only making things worse with a more virus resistant strain vaccinated and unvaccinated both catching the virus. Unvaxxed are already restricted from a lot anyway. The lockdowns of only the unvaccinated wouldn't work cases will still be rising from the vaccinated .

marilynrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118171111#Comment_118171111

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118171111#Comment_118171111

Yes we are in the middle of a pandemic, all the more reason for everyone to try to be as healthy as possible!

Before the pandemic we still had hospital bed crises, there was still a need for people to reduce strain on the hospitals, but nothing was said!

There has been plenty of pressure put on them to be vaccinated, at this point I think that anyone who was going to be vaxxed has been vaxxed already, I also believe pointing the finger of blame at the unvaccinated and the way people speak about them like they are scum of the earth is part of the reason why some vaccinated people are out socialising all the time and living their life as freely as possible even though "we are in the middle of a pandemic". Pointing the finger of blame at the unvaccinated isn't actually doing anything to really help the current situation!!

Do people want to be "right" or is it time to just look at the reality of the situation and accept that some people are just not going to be vaccinated?

basill

Having just listened to the lady from HSE on Rte Six One News I am much clearer on whats going on.

The skinny is that we are all to blame - not the HSE at all.....We are moving about to much, to much trauma, going to hospital with broken bones and the like for playing sport was just one of the reasons given.

Then she blamed the hospital waiting lists.....Remember the one that they allowed to grow to record levels as they downed tools and had committee meetings and decided that a risk assessment was required. Then the unions jumped in and we all know how it worked out. So all the sick people on waiting lists are causing issues for the HSE now I am afraid.

They are really just clutching at straws at this stage. What about a grown up debate about how the health system is not fit for purpose, has not grown with the increase in population and therefore a series of emergency measures will now be required including taking over private hospitals to provide specialist covid care......Then how about giving the existing hospitals a decent clean and the staff a refresher course on use of PPE so that you don't catch covid when you go INTO hospital.

Cluedo Monopoly

Does anyone know how much capacity has been added to ICU beds to account for Covid impact?

I was in UCHG A&E about 5 weeks ago and there were already loads of old people on trolleys which surprised me.

marilynrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118171201#Comment_118171201

I think we have 65 or so extra in the past 2 years which is pretty awful...and going by the figures in the 3 years previous then 15 or so of those were probably going to be added anyway.

I'm open to correction on that, but I think that's the figure I was told a few days ago but I can't find the post!

jimmy2shoes222

Just my opinion,

But if we are going to focus on the ICU's and increase in hospitalisation as been a pandemic then we have to remember that back in 2018 the HSE was on it's knees. I don't recall there been the same hysteria that is happening now, but it was reported heavily on the news that year. Truth be told our healthcare system has been under pressure every year with no plans back then or should I say false promises to increase the capacity. So I feel regardless on how our individual actions might take or restricted we won't bring down the levels of hospitalisation. It's the same every year with the caveat that unfortunately that there is almost 3,500 nurse out due to positive PCR tests.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30895120.html

Lockdowns don't work and I think it's fair to say that Sweeden has proved this.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/ireland/

Perhaps it's time we look at countries that are dealing with this virus a bit better like India and parts of Africa. Perhaps we should be looking at drugs like Ivermectin since Japan have had such a huge success rate with, although the Fact-Checkers are denying this.

All I know is that we can't solve a micro problem with a macro solution. Imposing more restrictions will be have serious knock on effects down the road that will leave a grim future for our younger generation. We will be only kicking the can down the road with complete closure to small business, undiagnosed health issues, economic collapse and food crises due to worldwide breakdown of the supply chain.

It's time to keep going, adopt and learn to live with Covid.

Lockdown = Retreat

Skipduke

I am unvaccinated. I am NOT anti vax- i just don't want to get this particular jab (s). simple as that. also mildly scared of needles but I digress....

the idea of a lockdown doesn't hold any threat to me. cant go anywhere anyways.

the number of people calling for the unvaccinated to be shot or locked up has been enlightening. perhaps siphon your anger at our government, not at a small minority of people. 90%+ of you followed orders and got vaxxed. Fairplay, cool, good for you. still not getting Christmas tho. and it wasn't the unvaccinated that stole your freedom.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118171076#Comment_118171076

If the ICU beds are scarce now during the pandemic, there could be some people in them who do not have covid but who contributed massively to their situation through their lifestyle

The point you are missing is that their lifestyle is not a contagious virus that transmits from person to person. You can't catch obesity.

The whose choose to remain unvaccinated (without genuine medical reasons), on the other hand, are helping to prolong this pandemic for everyone by their wilful irresponsibility and lack of consideration for anyone but themselves.

As the old saying goes, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118171578#Comment_118171578

"The point you are missing is that their lifestyle is not a contagious virus that transmits from person to person."

An obese person is more likely to spread viruses to others due to an inferior immune system.

Marty Bird

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118171578#Comment_118171578

You could say that obesity is contagious as so many in the Irelands society are in that cohort now adults and children its appalling what’s happening, and in the future they will put massive pressure on the health service, that is wilful irresponsibility, next time you see someone coming out of fast food places in that cohort make sure you remind them of the pressures they will put on the health system by their choices.

marilynrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118171578#Comment_118171578

It doesn't matter if they can pass on a contagious virus or not, the point is that they're taking up beds!

Also EVERYONE can pass on covid, vaccinated or not!

It's also not true to say that someone has a lack of consideration for anyone but themselves. People have weighed up pros and cons and made a decision that they feel is right for themselves, that does not mean that they have no consideration for others, it's so black and white to claim that the without the jab you have no consideration for anyone but yourself. It's not true in any way. Some of the best, kindest people I know haven't been vaccinated, people devoted to helping others!! Their very nature is one of kindness and compassion towards others!

There's plenty of vaccinated out there whose social behaviour is "wilfully irresponsible" but that's considered ok because it's within the guidelines!!

marilynrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118171711#Comment_118171711

Apparently it doesn't matter because the ONLY people who should have to take any of ( ALL OF) the blame for strain on the health services are the unvaccinated 🙄

It's also not true to say that someone has a lack of consideration for anyone but themselves. People have weighed up pros and cons and made a decision that they feel is right for themselves,Also EVERYONE can pass on covid, vaccinated or not!

If you're unvaccinated, you're more likely to end up seriously ill and taking up bed - your whole argument against the obsese is based on them "contributing to their situation" and taking up beds. The unvaccinated are doing no different, but somehow its okay for them?

Sorry, as far as I'm concerned, unless you are medically unable to be vaccinated then you have no excuse. No ifs or buts. Nobody should be doing just what "they feel is right for themselves" in the midst of a pandemic, but what is right for everyone.

An Ri rua

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118171730#Comment_118171730

This is too complicated for most of the binary minds that post here.

Danzy

I've been clear on this before, there will be no more lockdowns from here on in.

I've been telling ye this since March 2020 but it's not getting through.

marilynrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118171815#Comment_118171815

As I have already said...Someone else used the term "contributed to their situation" which is why I then responded to that term!

I am not arguing against the obese at all. It is completely incorrect of you to say that. I did not say that it's ok for the unvaccinated to take up beds but not for the obese to take up beds. I said that both the unvaccinated and obese will take up beds...so let's not single out the unvaccinated. I don't think the blame should be pointed at ANY group but if people do choose to blame people then they should blame all groups who are "contributing to their situation". Again let me remind you that it was someone on the other side of the argument who used that term first.

Also as far as I'm concerned, you don't know me, my circumstances or my reasons, so you're opinion on whether I have an excuse or whether I'm doing the wrong thing isn't relevant.

I didn't get the swine flu jab either by the way during that pandemic. I was considered vulnerable as I was pregnant. I felt like it was too rushed and my doctor agreed!! so in that pandemic I did what I "felt was right for myself" and that was respected and accepted!! I wasn't called an anti-vaxxer then!! I know a woman who suffered serious vaccine injury from that jab also so I have always been grateful that I wasn't one of the unlucky ones!

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118171880#Comment_118171880

If there was a vaccine against obesity and they didn't take it then they would be contributing to their situation, definately. Where there is a tested path to staying well and someone doesn't follow medical advice then they are part of the problem and cannot expect to be given special treatment i.e. ICU.

You've been paddling the same canoe in at least two if not three threads I've seen you contribute to so far pointing the finger at others "contributing to their situation" and using that as a defence for those who choose to be unvaccinated.

You've ignored the fact that someone who is obese (or an alcoholic, another group I believe you mentioned) cannot reverse their "situation" in a few short weeks, but someone who takes a covid vaccination can significantly reduce their risk of serious illness in as little as two short weeks after the first shot.

If you can come up with something that will significantly reduce the risk of serious illness to the obese (or others who "contribute to their situation") in the same timeframe, then please, share with the group. You'll be a billionaire overnight.

In the meantime, stop making excuses for the unvaccinated for not doing what they could do.

marilynrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118171981#Comment_118171981

So the only thing expected of someone to look after their health (to be considered worthy of ICU treatment) is to take a vaccine if it's available? If there's no vaccine then no other personal responsibility is needed? They cannot be considered to have contributed to their situation in any way?

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172148#Comment_118172148

Not what I said but you know that. In a pandemic people should do what is required. This is akin to a war and everyone should do what is needed.

marilynrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172123#Comment_118172123

That's because the people on the other side of the argument keep saying the same things! Therefore that leads to the same argument.

Are you on here to keep listening to people on your side of the argument saying the same thing over and over again with no response from the other side?

Just everyone on the vaccinated side going on and on about how the unvaxxed are selfish and shouldn't get a bed 😴😴 Everyone on that side just getting even more hyped up than they are now with the constant 'othering'!

I didn't ignore anything. An obese person CAN significantly improve their health in a short period,.....maybe not in a 2 week timespan, but it doesn't need to have been over the same restrictive timespan that you have mentioned just because you set it that way! We have been in this pandemic for almost 2 years!!!! and in that time we have had crazy unprecedented measures put in place where people couldn't go outside a 2km limit of their house, yet encouraging people to take steps to improve their health and therefore make themselves less vulnerable was never ever mentioned!

I am also free to keep commenting as I see fit here, thank you very much!

marilynrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172280#Comment_118172280

Ok so in that case, if this is a war.. do you believe that obese people should have taken any other steps outside of the government restrictions plus taking a vaccine in order to look after their health to avoid strain on the health service?

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118171282#Comment_118171282

We broke all records with the trolley crisis in November 2019, 3 months before Covid arrived.

2019 breaks record for most patients on trolleys – and it’s not even December (inmo.ie)

“We take no pleasure in having to record these figures for a decade and a half. We know the problem, but we also know the solutions: extra beds in hospitals, safe staffing levels, and more step-down and community care outside of the hospital.

“No other developed country faces anything close to this trolley problem. It can be solved, but a strong political agenda to drive change is needed.

r

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118171377#Comment_118171377

Welcome to what its like to be part of a high risk group.

Can't go anywhere anyways - (those in high risk groups need to take personal responsibility, risk assess, blah blah blah 🙄)

The number of people calling for the unvaccinated (high risk groups) to be shot or (keep themselves) locked up has been englightening.

Not nice, is it?

How long have we been listening to how high risk groups should have to keep themselves restricted indefinitely, and "take personal responsibility" but when the tables are turned and its suggested that maybe the unvaccinated should be the ones whose lives should be more restricted, its "enlightening"?

marilynrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172327#Comment_118172327

Restricting the unvaccinated is not going to make any meaningful difference. I personally wouldn't mind if the unvaccinated got locked down now for a bit if it meant that people finally grasp that!

This virus is absolutely rampant at the moment, it's everywhere! We all saw how long it takes for numbers to drop even though most of the population were only out for essential trips and not socialising at all, and yet people have somehow got it in their heads that if we lockdown a couple of hundred thousand people and let the other 92% of the adult population carry on as they are they are that numbers will just start dropping, it's madness!

I personally think most unvaccinated people would be ok with going into lockdown for a while if that meant the pandemic ended for everyone and things went back to normal after. We know it won't though!

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172460#Comment_118172460

All we do know is that the unvaccinated make up half of the ICU numbers. Way out of proportion to their numbers. They can't expect to be given special treatment and effectively take 50% of beds when they are only 8% of th epopulation. Selfish is the word.

Skipduke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118172327#Comment_118172327

Think you missed the point.

high risk and unvaccinated are not the same thing.

I for one am blessed to be extremely healthy. Non drinker . non smoker (sh*t craic at parties) fast 5k type. also introverted and rugby player.

the risk I pose to others and myself is minimal. Only place you’ll see me is in a grocery shop now. perhaps ban for that..

Will not be taking the vaccine. Ever. Especially if the government feel like bullying me into it.

High risk my ass