Will there be another lockdown?

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118218133#Comment_118218133

Yep and I hate when people say we had mandatory vaccination for smallpox.

No 'we' didn't, the people who starved out our ancestors did.

They also had workhouses, cotton plantations, prison ships sailing to Australia etc.

BruteStock

It was only a matter of time before somebody cried out for mandatory vaccinations. This is how society turns on each other.

18-24 y/o offer 0.000% threat to the hospitals if they get sick. Eastern Europeans are of the age where they offer 0.000 threat to the hospitals if they get sick. Unvaxxed or not they are not the problem and its a fools game to blame them. The fight we're in against numbers and a poorly run health sector.

India with a 23% vax rate have Covid somewhat under control , yet people still believe mass endless vaccination is the answer to everybody prayers.

“It's Easier to Fool People Than It Is to Convince Them That They Have Been Fooled.”

iLikeWaffles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118217485#Comment_118217485

If you actually read what I said you will see that what I said is the only scenario's we can think of is worst case and those scenarios we can learn from as it is the baseline we are not willing to reach nor do want to be anywhere near that baseline yet that baseline is fairly close.

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118218667#Comment_118218667

Not insignificant. You can't get away from the fact that they take up 50% of the ICU beds!

iLikeWaffles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118218765#Comment_118218765

How many actual ICU beds is there in this country?

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118219080#Comment_118219080

280.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118219669#Comment_118219669

Thanks.

That report is using data from the end of 2020.

"CCP welcomes Minister Donnelly’s announcement (18th Dec 2020) and HSE National Service Plan 2021 (both copied below) to increase the national adult critical care capacity baseline from 280 to 321 by year end this year."

I wonder if they're close to the 321 figure.

melekalikimaka

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118218551#Comment_118218551

Would you be opposed to mandatory smallpox vaccinations if it was still prevalent?

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118219788#Comment_118219788

There would certainly be such people. I recently saw an archive clip of people giving reasons why they were opposed to polio vaccination. All the same reasons - they know something everyone else doesn't know because everyone else is so gullible while they are so clever.

DarkJager21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118219805#Comment_118219805

We all know that type, probably couldn't even tie their own fuckin shoelaces until they were 16, and they are here now calling everyone "sheep" because they saw a video on Facebook that gave them the "truth". If covid was any bit good at its job, it would cull those people in particular.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118219832#Comment_118219832

I think it's usually to do with ego and insecurity. They don't feel clever so they pick a contrary position on something that everyone else agrees on (or is confident to admit they don't know). That way they can feel like they in an elite group (elite because its a minority position) of people who are so clever that they didn't fall for something like getting a vaccine against a global pandemic disease.

All backed up by YouTube videos and Facebook posts by other such people. Everyone else has been fooled but they're too clever to be fooled.

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118215720#Comment_118215720

Lots of people fully understand that, even those that argue for lockdowns.

Most of the people arguing for lockdowns have personal reasons for doing so. They realise that lockdowns are unsustainable and fundamentally unfair on those who have to continue working through them and bear the cost of them. But because lockdowns are beneficial to their own personal situation, eg, having an immuno compromised relative, they will argue very strongly for them, notwithstanding the cost to society.

Child referrals to psychiatrists have increased by a factor of 3 during the lockdowns.

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118218667#Comment_118218667

Incorrect.

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/covid-19intensivecareadmissions/COVID-19_ICU_Report_16%20Nov_2021_website.pdf

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118219967#Comment_118219967

Why do you say it's unfair for people to work through a lockdown? Wouldn't they be at far greater risk if we continue with high transmissions, with more people out and about using whatever service they provide?

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118220185#Comment_118220185

I meant that the psychological and financial cost of the lockdown is not borne equally across society. Frontline workers are under considerably more pressure than those of us who can stay/work at home during lockdowns. The workforce in future generations are getting all the debt loaded on them by my generation.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118220280#Comment_118220280

The psychological cost of not locking down is not borne equally either though.

Frontline workers would be under even more pressure if the virus was let rip. That's the pandemic hitting, not the lockdown.

I'm not arguing for a lockdown (level 4+ to level5) right now, and the financial (and other) costs means it should only be taken as a very last resort - hopefully we can see this winter through without such measures.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118220280#Comment_118220280

Sure but if you care about frontline workers safety and workload, then a lockdown would relieve their workload in the case of medical staff and reduce covid exposure to other frontline workers like bus drivers and shop workers.

I agree we're passing the cost to the next generations (and my own generation). Just like the 2008 recession passed the cost to the next generations (and my own generation).

I don't advocate for lockdown either. I just hope they take action proportionate to the situation, when the time comes.

iLikeWaffles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118219669#Comment_118219669

That seems about right but I think the figure currently may be about 300 ICU beds. That is beds that are specifically equipped and staffed with fully trained Nurses/Doctors able to deal with life threatening or acute illnesses and injuries.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118219762#Comment_118219762

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/what-happens-if-icu-beds-run-out-in-irish-hospitals-1.4732519

I'm referring to the above article with that figure of 300 which probably has averaged the above plan, come to think of it. I think it is important to note this figure when referring to how many unvaccinated patient's are currently occupying ICU beds as the figure of "50%" makes it sound as though there is actually a lot of ICU beds both occupied or should be available when there is not. 321 is and still would be an abnormal figure given that the EU average is something like 409. Again though the number of beds in Ireland brings that average down as does a higher number beds elsewhere bring the average up. The important thing to note is that the number of critically ill patients receiving a critical care bed can be increased at any given time should the need arise, however and this is important. Those beds may not have specifically trained staff to deal with the level of care needed to keep a patient alive. Where a trauma patient would need that level of care, they should be receiving in a properly stocked ICU they may not receive that same level of care.

Peoples current behaviours noted in previous posts should not be so nonchalant when what we have to keep in mind is a figure that is and has been barely able to keep up with the demand, let alone when you throw a pandemic into the mix. The number of ICU beds for normal critical care (that is, excluding covid patients) has never been factored in to "doubling down" which should be, not just on just behaviours. Neither government officials or policy makers nor (by way of parroting) anyone quoting them will put the non numerical figure of 50% into perspective.

shesty

I thought 300 or 310 was the "surge" figure?So normally it is less than 300?

xhomelezz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118222663#Comment_118222663

Think the surge figure was around 350?

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118217754#Comment_118217754

If you say that vaccine hesitancy is driven by minority group cultural practices then the modern left won't know what to do.

Danzy

Saw today that global debt increased 25% in the last 2 years.

More days than dinners ahead for years to come.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118220280#Comment_118220280

The reality is though without State wide lockdowns the general public would have done it themselves.

Last spring you couldn't get people out the door for love or money.

The damage from that would have been as severe but without the reduction and without the economic stimulus to cover it, would have seen a vast segment of the economy disappear.

People are worn out by all the lockdowns, a return to the past won't wash but things will tighten up

People are already really cutting back contacts, so once again many people will lockdown regardless of what the State decides.

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118222717#Comment_118222717

If you believe this then you won't be concerned at all by the government imposing restrictions as you think people will do ot themselves anyway. I don't think you're right on that point and I think closing pubs and shops and sports events, reduces the number of people going to pubs, shops and sports events.

El_Duderino 09

Can't help thinking the new African variant could have an impact. They're working hard to figure out what differences the mutations will make and whether it will make the virus more impact full or less impactful. Hopefully the mutations don't actually make any difference and the vaccines are still as effective or even more effective against it than against Delta.

We'll just have to wait and see. Whatever you thought about the likelihood of restrictions yesterday, the new variant is a new unknown in the equation. Need to see what the science says about the new variant.

Oranage2

Without a doubt there'll be a lockdown, gotta get the Christmas cash first though

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118227888#Comment_118227888

I still am hopeful that there won't be one.

odyssey06

Apart from the schools and gyms January is a voluntary lockdown for most people. Weather **** and everyones broke. Not worth the bother.

PommieBast

Even without an official lockdown the signals from the government has already resulted in a lot of xmas stuff being cancelled.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118228798#Comment_118228798

This is Ireland in 2021 sadly. Things are open but don't go or we'll close them