Lockdown for Kildare (Aug 8th-31st)

ChikiChiki

Lundstram wrote: »

A massive 0 deaths today.

That's not advertised, though. 200 CASES! 200 CASES! 200 CASES!

Maybe look at numbers from the last month and try understand the timeline up until people become critically ill. Could be 14 days before someone is diagnosed.

Daily case numbers were low a month ago. 200 cases could result in a few deaths. That could be 30 days from now.

I don't think you have a grasp of the virus Tbh.

hmmm

Lundstram wrote: »

A massive 0 deaths today.

That's not advertised, though. 200 CASES! 200 CASES! 200 CASES!

Covid takes time to kill people, by the time we see deaths in the statistics it is too late to be reacting.

1-2 weeks after infection for initial symptoms to appear.
Another 1-2 weeks until requiring hospitalisation
Another week until ICU
It can take weeks after that for people to succumb.

Graham

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Deaths are inevitable.

Indeed.

At the same time there's no need for us to allow coronavirus to accelerate deaths.

That's the point you still haven't grasped.

Gaoth Laidir

What were (or where can I find) the 14-day (or was it 5-day?) case figures /100k for each of the 3 counties? Someone posted them the other day but I wonder what the latest figures are. Kildare sure is going to jump ahead with today's total.

jackboy

Graham wrote: »

Indeed.

At the same time there's no need for us to allow coronavirus to accelerate deaths.

That's the point you still haven't grasped.

But that’s the current plan. We have ended the majority of the restrictions. We know we can keep the death rate down by protecting the old and vulnerable. There is plenty of PPE available for that now.

A huge amount of people will be infected in the next few months, we know that. We can only prevent that by reapplying the bulk of the restrictions and leave them in effect for ever (with the hope that there may be a vaccine sometime).

It hasn’t been said out loud but our current plan is the herd immunity approach.

_Kaiser_

Graham wrote: »

Indeed.

At the same time there's no need for us to allow coronavirus to accelerate deaths.

That's the point you still haven't grasped.

Oh I fully understand your point. You would have us sacrifice the emotional and economic well-being of the many and the country to protect the (proportionally and thankfully ) few.

That's an admirable objective but not realistic outside a lab. It's certainly not possible at national level over the long term which is why the other problems (economic, employment, and other health issues such as massive waiting lists) are rapidly mounting up. Its also unnecessary as we can support those who are at greatest risk far more effectively with a targeted approach

We've existed in a sort of limbo until now where all these problems have been kicked down the road, but the politicians are already starting to hint that it can't continue for much longer and a reckoning is coming.

I think that realpolitik is setting in and the approach will start to change accordingly regardless of what NPHET or others would prefer.

Spiderman0081

Beltby wrote: »

Have a read of this. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/young-man-dies-after-attending-covid-19-party-in-texas-1.4303142%3Fmode%3Damp&ved=2ahUKEwi8wKqu7Z3rAhURlFwKHRS6BzMQFjABegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw2hgagLmEh_e9Ce13CfHiiO&ampcf=1

And there's plenty more cases like him.

Edit- that isn't a great link. Try this one. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/i-thought-it-was-a-hoax-patient-dies-after-texas-covid-party-1.4303106%3Fmode%3Damp&ved=2ahUKEwicyNqi7p3rAhV6ThUIHcDWD4AQFjAAegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw3OEhOnWkopc6tjuQXz28IV&ampcf=1

Did you read that news article on the hundreds of thousands of young people who contracted coronavirus are are now perfectly fine?

Naos

Lundstram wrote: »

6%?

I hope you don't teach maths.

For the record, I was wanting you to be right...

1,774 deaths out of 27,191 cases = 6.52% fatality rate.

road_high

Graham wrote: »

Indeed.

At the same time there's no need for us to allow coronavirus to accelerate deaths.

That's the point you still haven't grasped.

But sure we never had 0 cases all along...there's always been ups and downs and a certain level of cases...why haven't we see deaths as a proportion of these occur right now...it seems if we can panic enough then the deaths will surely follow.

Graham

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

What were (or where can I find) the 14-day (or was it 5-day?) case figures /100k for each of the 3 counties? Someone posted them the other day but I wonder what the latest figures are. Kildare sure is going to jump ahead with today's total.

I don't think they're updated daily, IIRC these were midnight Wednesday:

Graham wrote: »

The 14-day rates per 100,000 people

Ireland - 19

Kildare - 146.1
Offaly - 136
Laois - 74.4

hmmm

jackboy wrote: »

But that’s the current plan. We have ended the majority of the restrictions. We know we can keep the death rate down by protecting the old and vulnerable. There is plenty of PPE available for that now.

It hasn’t been said out loud but our current plan is the herd immunity approach.

Rubbish. Once this virus gets into the general community, it will get into vulnerable communities. Nurses and cleaners and medical staff in hospitals and nursing homes live in the community, and if the virus is circulating in the community they are at risk of picking up the disease and transferring it. These fantasies that somehow the "vulnerable" and everyone who mixes them can somehow be isolated or protected while allowing the virus to spread in the community are tiresome at this stage.

Besides which there are plenty of us who are not "vulnerable" who don't think it is a good idea to get this disease - certainly until we know more about the risk factors for serious illness, and what the long-term implications are of getting this. I can live without a pint in a pub for a while.

Our approach is absolutely not herd immunity, it is to minimise the spread to buy us time for better treatments and vaccines to arrive.

Gaoth Laidir

Graham wrote: »

I don't think they're updated daily, IIRC these were midnight Wednesday:

Thanks.

It should be noted that the population of Kildare (222,000) is 2.8 times that of Offaly (78,000) and 2.6 times that of Laois (85,000). Kildare is still well out ahead on daily new cases but the actual numbers need to be put in context of population. To equal today's 81 in Kildare, Offaly and Laois would need 29 and 31 cases, respectively. Going on recent days' breakdowns that's never going to happen, so it really is strange that at least Laois is still included.

I know this is a simplistic approach and doesn't account for population density, etc.

jackboy

hmmm wrote: »

Our approach is absolutely not herd immunity, it is to minimise the spread to buy us time for better treatments and vaccines to arrive.

If that was our plan we would not have lifted restrictions. The current plan we are following guarantees large amounts of people will be infected.

ExMachina1000

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

You are entitled to your opinion.
At this stage of the pandemic and with today's new case figures what would you do going forward?
If you had the final say what would your plan be?

No reply.

All you want to do is give out about those making the decisions.

Goodluck God bless

_Kaiser_

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

No reply.

All you want to do is give out about those making the decisions.

Goodluck God bless

I'm sorry. I don't be here 24/7 and I've already outlined many times what needs to be done.

Target the response to those in the known vulnerable/at risk category. Reopen the country fully with the same good hygiene, social distancing measures (where practical) that were key to getting things under control at the start. Keep things like Work from Home guidance but as much as possible , we need to get back to normal working and living.

Monitor the OUTCOME of cases carefully. New/total cases is meaningless and just drives hysteria. All it says is "Someone caught the virus". Nothing more.
Ensure that the HSE remains appropriately staffed and with available beds to care for the (thankfully and in perspective - relatively) few who end up there. Impose travel restrictions from countries with ongoing high death rates.

I'd probably end the daily briefings or at least the headlining of "new cases, and the total stands at.." As above, all it does is stoke fear and hysteria among the general public as we've seen again on this forum tonight. Not helpful. Reduce to once a week with the view being of that 7 day period, again focusing on the outcome of cases rather than just the number of new ones.

And most importantly, while I'd continue to listen to the valuable advice of NPHET, they'd be only one voice of several that need to be heard. The employment situation, the business leaders, the finances etc.

Ultimately there are a lot more considerations in running the country than just responding to Covid. That's not heartless, that's reality. The needs of the many (who will not suffer any severe effects from this) need to be considered, and by doing so we can in fact serve them AND those who need more target supports better.

If we go back into a wider lockdown because of an increase in new cases while at the same time, the death rate remains still very low as does the ICU admissions, all we're doing is throwing the economy and people's livelihoods off a cliff. The recovery from this will be prolonged and painful as it is without us actively making it worse through blunt imprecise responses.

Hope that answers your question.

ExMachina1000

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I'm sorry. I don't be here 24/7 and I've already outlined many times what needs to be done.

Target the response to those in the known vulnerable/at risk category. Reopen the country fully with the same good hygiene, social distancing measures (where practical) that were key to getting things under control at the start. Keep things like Work from Home guidance but as much as possible , we need to get back to normal working and living.

Monitor the OUTCOME of cases carefully. New/total cases is meaningless and just drives hysteria. All it says is "Someone caught the virus". Nothing more.
Ensure that the HSE remains appropriately staffed and with available beds to care for the (thankfully and in perspective - relatively) few who end up there. Impose travel restrictions from countries with ongoing high death rates.

I'd probably end the daily briefings or at least the headlining of "new cases, and the total stands at.." As above, all it does is stoke fear and hysteria among the general public as we've seen again on this forum tonight. Not helpful. Reduce to once a week with the view being of that 7 day period, again focusing on the outcome of cases rather than just the number of new ones.

And most importantly, while I'd continue to listen to the valuable advice of NPHET, they'd be only one voice of several that need to be heard. The employment situation, the business leaders, the finances etc.

Ultimately there are a lot more considerations in running the country than just responding to Covid. That's not heartless, that's reality. The needs of the many (who will not suffer any severe effects from this) need to be considered, and by doing so we can in fact serve them AND those who need more target supports better.

If we go back into a wider lockdown because of an increase in new cases while at the same time, the death rate remains still very low as does the ICU admissions, all we're doing is throwing the economy and people's livelihoods off a cliff. The recovery from this will be prolonged and painful as it is without us actively making it worse through blunt imprecise responses.

Hope that answers your question.

Yes it does. And thank you

You are advocating for zero lockdown. In that case when clusters pop up do you not think action should be taken to isolate and focus on these areas thus allowing the rest of the country to continue as we are?

Not locking down clusters risks a start of mass community transmission and before you know it we are back to square one.

To protect the economy clusters must be isolated. If you live in this area then deal with it for a few weeks. Life isn't fair. Its temporary.

The needs of the many outweighs the needs of the few

An Ri rua

facehugger99 wrote: »

Begrudgery.

Live with your own decisions. Not everyone is listening to RTE hysteria 24/7 and living in fear.

What way does your mind work? A public official tasked with encouraging the Irish public not to travel but to not just stay at home but to go further and bolster the Irish tourism industry and take a staycation? But he then f*cks off to Italy. In most corporate environments, that would be cause for walking the plank.
Your posts are disingenuous to say the least. Begrudgery? You're a pure troll and, IF you're from Offaly (I hope not), you're an embarrassment.

An Ri rua

Lundstram wrote: »

And I'll probably win the lotto.

So will you be happy enough to stop being a flat-Earther on August 29th when we revisit your daft post?
Or will you squirm out of that and say we can't say it was any of those 200 cases that has died?
Unsuccessful minds like yours abound. Thankfully not capable of solo runs at the higher levels of society.

Are you happy enough to put up or shut up?

StupidLikeAFox

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

1700 deaths. Over 6 months. Many of whom had underlying conditions and elderly. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that these people don't matter and that I don't have sympathy for them and their families - but at the same time, deaths were inevitable, and happen every day for a whole variety of reasons..

You do know that underlying issues could include something very treatable with a long life expectancy?

Protecting these people doesn't mean buying them another couple of weeks, it could mean another 10/20/30 years.

Everybody's death is inevitable - don't be a dick

_Kaiser_

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

You do know that underlying issues could include something very treatable with a long life expectancy?

Protecting these people doesn't mean buying them another couple of weeks, it could mean another 10/20/30 years.

Everybody's death is inevitable - don't be a dick

It's not being a dick at all.

People are going to die from this. That's the reality of the situation. Yes that's genuinely sad but we cannot sacrifice the needs of the many and the country at large in a futile attempt to save every life. That's just not possible. Not in Ireland or anywhere else.

Where we badly screwed up in this country was with the nursing homes, but how much impact did Joe Public really have there? The mistakes made are solely at the door of the HSE and the Government.

What we need to do is focus our not-unlimited resources to identifying and protecting those most at risk - which the numbers show us are the elderly and people who have significant underlying issues. Yes, people outside this demographic have sadly died too but those are thankfully outliers rather than the norm. That said, with a more targeted response, hopefully we can help more of those people too.

But there are no guarantees beyond that if we continue to ignore the equally real consequences to people's mental health, livelihoods, other health needs (800k now on waiting lists), and the damage being caused to the economy (which directly affects our ability to help anyone - the unlimited credit line won't last forever, and will need to be repaid), then we are in fact making an already bad situation much worse.

The reality is that the majority of people will not suffer any significant or long term consequences of this virus (again based on the numbers to date) and these people deserve to be heard and have their needs considered too.

The needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the few (as the other poster said and indeed I said myself months ago), but if we start looking at the situation more objectively and with a sense of perspective and proportionality, we can actually make a much greater difference in protecting and helping both.

joebloggs32

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

You do know that underlying issues could include something very treatable with a long life expectancy?

Protecting these people doesn't mean buying them another couple of weeks, it could mean another 10/20/30 years.

Everybody's death is inevitable - don't be a dick

I am in the under 45 age bracket that gets mentioned all the time. Shure what harm if they are under 45 i hear people say...they'll be grand!
I have high blood pressure, and it would be considered an underlying condition.

I take one small pill a day and get on with things. I even run 5k a few times a week. But if I got covid and kicked the bucket I'd just be another part of the statistics. Never mind my wife and young family I would leave behind. He was asking for it by not cocooned with an underlying condition! If I went to my employer and told them.i can't work because of blood pressure i wouldn't get much of a hearing.

smelly sock

Lads

Anyone know if you can travel from kildare to dublin for a funeral?

Patser

smelly sock wrote: »

Lads

Anyone know if you can travel from kildare to dublin for a funeral?

Fairly sure that will fall under essential travel, at least on compassionate grounds. And as every keeps saying, there are no penalties for travelling, Gardaí can only ask you not to

An Ri rua

joebloggs32 wrote: »

I am in the under 45 age bracket that gets mentioned all the time. Shure what harm if they are under 45 i hear people say...they'll be grand!
I have high blood pressure, and it would be considered an underlying condition.

I take one small pill a day and get on with things. I even run 5k a few times a week. But if I got covid and kicked the bucket I'd just be another part of the statistics. Never mind my wife and young family I would leave behind. He was asking for it by not cocooned with an underlying condition! If I went to my employer and told them.i can't work because of blood pressure i wouldn't get much of a hearing.

Have you checked with your doctor? Hypertension is an at risk category. Not much an employer can do about it apart from escalate actions on both sides.

Graham

21 new cases in Kildare, must be less than 5 each in Offaly & Laois as their counts aren't itemised.

An Ri rua

Graham wrote: »

21 new cases in Kildare, must be less than 5 each in Offaly & Laois as their counts aren't itemised.

Hopefully good news for Laois and Offaly shortly so.

smelly sock

Hard to see how any restrictions will be lifted from Kildare. It will have to extended.

gral6

There are gossips that the full lockdown will be imposed to Ireland tomorrow to flatten the curve.

giveitholly

gral6 wrote: »

There are gossips that the full lockdown will be imposed to Ireland tomorrow to flatten the curve.

What exactly is a full lockdown and flatten what curve?

votecounts

we had flattened the curve and still didn't open fully, no chance of pubs anytime soon and schools will close down shortly after opening, if they open on time.