Why is Ireland's healthcare system in shambles?

mr_fegelien

I remember last year being sent a letter by the HSE that my appointment for a nose operation which I had requested for when I was a minor (16yrs old in 2014) was due in a month. I cancelled it.

These stories aren't uncommon. I have private health insurance but even then things like visiting a GP are expensive €60+ only for them to tell you that everything is fine when it's not. This doesn't happen in any other European country.

Don't get me wrong, Ireland has great facilities. I was scheduled on a private insurance for an MRI scan 3 years ago that only cost €200. But for public patients, the waiting list is horrendous.

And our government wants to build the most expensive children's hospital in the world here. What gives?

FintanMcluskey

The unions and the work strategies they indoctrinate.

Nothing else

StevenToast

Good old mr fegelien...the king of boards.ie....

Too many chiefs, not enough Indians.

Money being siphoned by private insurance.

da_miser

mr_fegelien wrote: »

I remember last year being sent a letter by the HSE that my appointment for a nose operation which I had requested for when I was a minor (16yrs old in 2014) was due in a month. I cancelled it.

These stories aren't uncommon. I have private health insurance but even then things like visiting a GP are expensive €60+ only for them to tell you that everything is fine when it's not. This doesn't happen in any other European country.

Don't get me wrong, Ireland has great facilities. I was scheduled on a private insurance for an MRI scan 3 years ago that only cost €200. But for public patients, the waiting list is horrendous.

And our government wants to build the most expensive children's hospital in the world here. What gives?

You where put on the long finger because nothing was really wrong with you, a requested nose job because of vanity, bottom of the waiting list, and rightly so.
If you need it the medical procedures will be fast tracked, if you want a nose job pay for it yourself, tax payer is put to the rack for vanity in this country.

JohnnyFlash

It's not.

Ireland is having the same issues as the rest of the mature social democracies we are part of. People are living longer because they had better lives under social democracy - better access to medicine, treatment, and follow-up care. We now have loads of lovely healthy people in their 70's, 80's, and 90's. Bully for them to be honest.

But the figures aren't really stacking up. Someone has to keep paying for our health system, and they aren't.

Society - complex.

c.p.w.g.w

Because the unions are too strong...if we could get rid of the majority of admin staff we could hire more nurses, Dr's & open more beds

SEPT 23 1989

Like the legal system

Follow the money

If there was money to be made in fixing the problem it would be easily done

Too many snouts in the trough making money off broken systems

JohnnyFlash

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Because the unions are too strong...if we could get rid of the majority of admin staff we could hire more nurses, Dr's & open more beds

Ya, because replacing all admin and management layers in a health service would be a great idea.

c.p.w.g.w

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Ya, because replacing all admin and management layers in a health service would be a great idea.

Not all of it...there is plenty of staff who aren't needed, my mates mother's works in one hospital and there are 3 of them working the same desk...they literally spent most of their days watching Netflix...well pre Covid19 that is

Heighway61

The suits need to be fed first.

JohnnyFlash

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index

ronivek

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Not all of it...there is plenty of staff who aren't needed, my mates mother's works in one hospital and there are 3 of them working the same desk...they literally spent most of their days watching Netflix...well pre Covid19 that is

I’m sure that really happened and isn’t a complete fabrication by either you, your friend, his mother, or some combination of the three.

screamer

Run by the pen pushers for the pen pushers.
Unionised to the hilt, too much red tape and successive politicians lacking the b@lls to fix the root causes for years now. Too many people wanting it all for free, and over reliance on fleecing private patients to prop up their public hospital bills. Mostly, too many snouts not enough trough.

c.p.w.g.w

ronivek wrote: »

I’m sure that really happened and isn’t a complete fabrication by either you, your friend, his mother, or some combination of the three.

Not the only person i'm hearing it from...Certain their was a report doing the rounds from a few years ago and showed a certain percentage of admin staff could be reduced as they aren't needed, if work practices are streamlined...

I know in one particular county council that most of the jobs will not exist once lads retire...new positions will be created to amalgamate positions together...Streamlining of positions...FIL is currently training his replacement, we the person who will be taking over his tasks on top of additional tasks from another role that will no longer exist

FintanMcluskey

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The unions and the work strategies they indoctrinate.

Nothing else

Supporting evidence?

I would suggest its the complete over use of the system for minor issues.

redzerdrog

HSE from top to bottom has the be one of the most disjointed operations ever

AllForIt

Because all state health care systems are socialist minded, and socialism doesn't work.

Hibernicis

Very poor management combined with endless political interference.

JohnnyFlash

redzerdrog wrote: »

HSE from top to bottom has the be one of the most disjointed operations ever

It's not though.

It's a highly effective health care delivery system. Far better than the health boards that preceded it. We have world class outcomes in cancer care. We are world leaders in the treatment of most soft tissue related cancers.

I'm not sure people really get how good we have it compared to almost every other country in the world.

AllForIt

Hibernicis wrote: »

Very poor management combined with endless political interference.

Because it's not run as a business. Just full of managers with aimless objectives without any financial responsibilities.

You stick the financial concern in there and everything changes.

Social health care does not work. It's idealist fantasy.

There is no point in complaining about the management when the management don't have a financial objective.

completedit

One problem I think, well no, just one feature of the health system that I think we as a society need to move on from is the lionizing of nurses. They do good and valuable work and more power to them but there needs to be more perspective when they start pulling our heart strings about worker conditions. Yes, nurses will go to Australia or Dubai or Canada and make more but we can't compare our wages to some random countries nurses happen to decide to go to for a lifestyle change. How do we compare respect to our European neighbors should be the yardstick.

The point about the nurses is just an observation. The main point is we need to be realistic and drop this 'only in Ireland' mindset. As an above poster said, we have it good and I think people should realize this more often than not. It's my belief that we had a generation who live in glocamora land. While the rest of Europe was being bombed into oblivion, we were living in Dev's sheltered Ireland and as a result, we're a bit mollycoddled. We had tough times but not to the depths that they experienced on the continent.

completedit

completedit wrote: »

One problem I think, well no, just one feature of the health system that I think we as a society need to move on from is the lionizing of nurses. They do good and valuable work and more power to them but there needs to be more perspective when they start pulling our heart strings about worker conditions. Yes, nurses will go to Australia or Dubai or Canada and make more but we can't compare our wages to some random countries nurses happen to decide to go to for a lifestyle change. How do we compare respect to our European neighbors should be the yardstick..

Starts off by suggesting we need to stop having unrealistic views of people doing a job most wouldnt touch.

Then follows by saying we shouldnt compare to nations salaries that are close to ours in most respects

Then finishes by suggesting the correct view is to compare to other european countries with salaries and costs of living that are half what ours are and would result in private salaries being decimated if done across the entire board.

You couldnt afford an average Irish mortgage on a Spanish or Bulgarian salary

Dempo1

It is a shambles, I had first hand experience of a general hospital right in the middle of the main lockdown, Broken limb to be precise. Whilst the care generally was excellent apart from an incident that led to a formal complaint, I was sent home after a temporary fix up to await an operation at a private hospital 150km away and 3 days wait, again great experience there.

Here's the bit I don't get, the general hospital had 3 patients, me being one, it was empty, I get the covid restrictions but this was being dealt with in designated wards. On the follow up, 4 weeks later, life appeared to be getting back to normal but still empty and certain services, xrays etc not available beyond absolute emergencies, essentially my recovery time went from 6 weeks to over 12 weeks. I got a real sense they didn't want me there, get them in, get them out.

As an aside, I have a condition that requires clinic appointments every 3 months, again now stopped with a quite bizzare telephone consultation replacing physical appointments . Again, clinic is seperate to but located at a general hospital and protocols could easily be put in place. I sympathise with people who have more serious conditions than I, such as cancer etc. It is just beyond belief the HSE essentially emptied their hospitals and have now created an enormous back log of people awaiting tests and indeed ongoing care. History shows us this will take years to resolve, it's just madness and alarming.

PhilOssophy

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Not the only person i'm hearing it from...Certain their was a report doing the rounds from a few years ago and showed a certain percentage of admin staff could be reduced as they aren't needed, if work practices are streamlined...

I know in one particular county council that most of the jobs will not exist once lads retire...new positions will be created to amalgamate positions together...Streamlining of positions...FIL is currently training his replacement, we the person who will be taking over his tasks on top of additional tasks from another role that will no longer exist

They won't exist......not so sure. The unions will insist that these people be replaced. This is a problem across our public sector, the unions won't want to lose a paying member so lets charge the tax payer for somebody who is not needed.

JPCN1

Hibernicis wrote: »

Very poor management combined with endless political interference.

Dept of Health.
HSE.
Unions.
Politicians.

If it ever is to be fixed the Party that does it will be wiped out in the next election.

The National Children's Hospital has to be one of the most depressing episodes in many a year.

Gorteen

Management incompetence
Political interference
Overly complex systems and layers of administration
Union dogma, "the answer's no....what's the question"
Striving for excellence when safe and sufficient is more realistic
Too many strategy documents with limited implementation

mr_fegelien

JPCN1 wrote: »

Dept of Health.
HSE.
Unions.
Politicians.

If it ever is to be fixed the Party that does it will be wiped out in the next election.

The National Children's Hospital has to be one of the most depressing episodes in many a year.

Can someone explain to me what is exactly wrong with HSE management? How does it compare to how other state health bodies are run in other countries?

Eric Cartman

Breaking the unions and sacking most middle management and admin staff is the only way to fix it

crossman47

Gorteen wrote: »

Management incompetence
Political interference
Overly complex systems and layers of administration
Union dogma, "the answer's no....what's the question"
Striving for excellence when safe and sufficient is more realistic
Too many strategy documents with limited implementation

You forgot one of the biggest of all - our own attitudes. I include those who head straight for A&E for minor issues and those who want a hospital in close proximity. Our cancer treatment is top class because a Canadian (Prof. Keane) insisted on centres of excellence and, in fairness, he got political backing from Mary Harney.

noodler

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Because the unions are too strong...if we could get rid of the majority of admin staff we could hire more nurses, Dr's & open more beds

We keep pumping up numbers across the board actually and the same problems persist