cabin in neighbours garden

Bullocks

looksee wrote: »

I am struggling to see how a single storey log cabin built on grass (ie not on raised foundations) can have the top 4 ft of its door and windows above a 6ft fence, unless there is a serious slope in the land. If that is the case then I think the OP is right to be concerned.

Putting in a 10ft hedge might be a solution if next door is north of the OP, otherwise they are casting their own garden into shadow.

I'm thinking the same thing . A 10ft fence would not be a lightweight build and would really block alot of light out

slipperyox

Would the op be happy if the neighbors explained what it is intended for, and frosted the windows looking your way?

Will potential noise affect another neighbor? If so talk with them,

Meredith2016

slipperyox wrote: »

Would the op be happy if the neighbors explained what it is intended for, and frosted the windows looking your way?

Will potential noise affect another neighbor? If so talk with them,

Thanks, I think frosted windows would help but we still need to find out whether it is permissible in terms of regulations. We will probably have a chat with them in the next day or two and discuss. Thank you .

Meredith2016

slipperyox wrote: »

Would the op be happy if the neighbors explained what it is intended for, and frosted the windows looking your way?

Will potential noise affect another neighbor? If so talk with them,

Thanks, I think frosted windows would help but we still need to find out whether it is permissible in terms of regulations. We will probably have a chat with them in the next day or two and discuss. Thank you .

the_pen_turner

Is there any diference between them looking out the window or standing g outside

Poorside

Maybe, and I know this is crazy talk, maybe the neighbours checked with the council first and didn't need to inform anyone else about it.

Meredith2016

I have submitted an enquiry to our local county council to ask what the restrictions are around raising the fence height/ whether this is permissible and the reasoning behind our query. That is the only way I feel that we can establish whether there is a breach of any planning laws. If not, we will assess fence and /or hedging options to eliminate the view into our house and garden. However, i can see us moving if this is the case. If Council advise that they are in breach, we will need to formally report or learn to live with it. Once we hear back from the council , we may call in to our neighbours and have a chat. Now that the thing is up, I dont think there is much room for compromise ( apart from maybe frosted windows). Thanks again for all the advice.

Poorside

Meredith2016 wrote: »

I have submitted an enquiry to our local county council to ask what the restrictions are around raising the fence height/ whether this is permissible and the reasoning behind our query. That is the only way I feel that we can establish whether there is a breach of any planning laws. If not, we will assess fence and /or hedging options to eliminate the view into our house and garden. However, i can see us moving if this is the case. If Council advise that they are in breach, we will need to formally report or learn to live with it. Once we hear back from the council , we may call in to our neighbours and have a chat. Now that the thing is up, I dont think there is much room for compromise ( apart from maybe frosted windows). Thanks again for all the advice.

is it a 2 storey building?

Meredith2016

Poorside wrote: »

is it a 2 storey building?

They could have a loft inside, but there is just one row of windows.

Gumbo

Meredith2016 wrote: »

I have submitted an enquiry to our local county council to ask what the restrictions are around raising the fence height/ whether this is permissible and the reasoning behind our query. That is the only way I feel that we can establish whether there is a breach of any planning laws. If not, we will assess fence and /or hedging options to eliminate the view into our house and garden. However, i can see us moving if this is the case. If Council advise that they are in breach, we will need to formally report or learn to live with it. Once we hear back from the council , we may call in to our neighbours and have a chat. Now that the thing is up, I dont think there is much room for compromise ( apart from maybe frosted windows). Thanks again for all the advice.

No need to submit anything to the council.
The max height is 2m hour planning permission.

Also, the council will not confirm to you if your neighbor is in breach or not.
You will need to make the formal complaint to planning enforcement and they will deal with the neighbors directly.

Darc19

corkcitychess wrote: »

it's very annoying (beyond annoying in some cases) when a next door neighbour makes a big change without even having the courtesy to inform you.

---

Report your neighbour.

Report what?

That they built a garden structure that seems to be within guidelines?

Or that they have put electricity into it? (many sheds have electricity.

Remember that the op has only said that their head is saying that possibly it will be rented - a sort of catastrophe syndrome comment. Then the pulling at the "think of the child" comment. More catastrophe syndrome (look it up)

By giving a "29 Sq m" estimate of size, it suggests that they sneaked into the neighbour's garden one day and took outside measurements and then probably rounded it up.

I reckon that it's a children's play area and possibly a laundry room or parent's chill out space and it is 25 Sq m net internal area and as such is exempt from planning and totally permitted.


As for a neighbours shed devaluing your property, that's utterly ridiculous.

Darc19

Darc19 wrote: »

Report what?

That they built a garden structure that seems to be within guidelines?

Or that they have put electricity into it? (many sheds have electricity.

Remember that the op has only said that their head is saying that possibly it will be rented - a sort of catastrophe syndrome comment. Then the pulling at the "think of the child" comment. More catastrophe syndrome (look it up)

By giving a "29 Sq m" estimate of size, it suggests that they sneaked into the neighbour's garden one day and took outside measurements and then probably rounded it up.

I reckon that it's a children's play area and possibly a laundry room or parent's chill out space and it is 25 Sq m net internal area and as such is exempt from planning and totally permitted.


As for a neighbours shed devaluing your property, that's utterly ridiculous.

You don’t know what’s within guidelines and what isn’t so you’re only guessing too. The OP should take it further and let the right people decide. People that know what they’re talking about and aren’t just reckoning and suggesting.

dzer2

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

You don’t know what’s within guidelines and what isn’t so you’re only guessing too. The OP should take it further and let the right people decide. People that know what they’re talking about and aren’t just reckoning and suggesting.

As already said caution would be the best course of action. I have built many of these structures for people and the one that overrides all guidelines is the temporary structure. As already confirmed its built on grass no foundations or concrete. It's a temporary structure in the council's view. If the OP has sent an inquiry then they will.have to wait until they get a response which I doubt will happen. What might happen is the county engineer will ask a local councillor if they have any knowledge of it and that will.be the end of it. As has happen a few times on other builds as they were built as temporary structures.

Take care D

Darc19

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

You don’t know what’s within guidelines and what isn’t so you’re only guessing too. The OP should take it further and let the right people decide. People that know what they’re talking about and aren’t just reckoning and suggesting.

I'd chat with the neighbours first. I certainly would not report them because my mind tells me that at some stage in the future they will rent it out as a multi occupancy dwelling.

And as I said, a rather accurate "approx 29sqm" (why not 30?), would suggest that outside measurements have been taken. (trespass?) And I reckon most people will know that a 25sqm internal area will most likely be close enough to 29sqm external area.


But go ahead and report on your new neighbours, sure you only have to live next door to them.

Meredith2016

Darc19 wrote: »

I'd chat with the neighbours first. I certainly would not report them because my mind tells me that at some stage in the future they will rent it out as a multi occupancy dwelling.

And as I said, a rather accurate "approx 29sqm" (why not 30?), would suggest that outside measurements have been taken. (trespass?) And I reckon most people will know that a 25sqm internal area will most likely be close enough to 29sqm external area.


But go ahead and report on your new neighbours, sure you only have to live next door to them.

I did not trespass on my neighbours property. As I clarified in an earlier post, the workmen advised us that the structure IS 29 sq m. I came here to ask for advice and didnt say I wanted to report my neighbours- I certainly dont go out looking for conflict and rows.
Thanks to all for the constructive advice.

Darc19

Darc19 wrote: »

I'd chat with the neighbours first. I certainly would not report them because my mind tells me that at some stage in the future they will rent it out as a multi occupancy dwelling.

And as I said, a rather accurate "approx 29sqm" (why not 30?), would suggest that outside measurements have been taken. (trespass?) And I reckon most people will know that a 25sqm internal area will most likely be close enough to 29sqm external area.


But go ahead and report on your new neighbours, sure you only have to live next door to them.

So what if you’ve to live next door to them? You’re not sharing a living room every evening.

Rubberchikken

I never understand why people are so concerned about upsetting a neighbour by making a genuine enquiry or complaint to the council.

They obviously didn't give any thought or consideration to their neighbours when they decided to plonk a ' shed' in their garden without seemingly consulting anyone.

Maybe call beforehand and chat with neighbours but if there's any decency in a person they will also check out regulations etc before proceeding.

Pkiernan

Darc19 wrote: »

Report what?

That they built a garden structure that seems to be within guidelines?

Or that they have put electricity into it? (many sheds have electricity.

Remember that the op has only said that their head is saying that possibly it will be rented - a sort of catastrophe syndrome comment. Then the pulling at the "think of the child" comment. More catastrophe syndrome (look it up)

By giving a "29 Sq m" estimate of size, it suggests that they sneaked into the neighbour's garden one day and took outside measurements and then probably rounded it up.

I reckon that it's a children's play area and possibly a laundry room or parent's chill out space and it is 25 Sq m net internal area and as such is exempt from planning and totally permitted.


As for a neighbours shed devaluing your property, that's utterly ridiculous.

They were told by the builder it was 29 sqm

AmberGold

Nothing you can do, they didn’t need to consult anyone, luck of the draw buying semi detached houses.

I live in a suburban detached house, neighbours facing us have practically made a living room out of their back garden, nice job, Canopy, patio heaters, outdoor couches and a fire pit. They’re both smokers and have adult children living at home. They’re out there in the garden every evening (weather permitting) from about 7 to the small hours at the weekend. Talking & laughing, the feckers are even enjoying themselves.

That’s life, they won’t be doing it forever. Nothing we can do nor would we want to.

Neighbours beside us built a home office in their garden, facing our house, no big deal, if they want to look into our house so what!

If I had an issue with all this I’d sell up and move to a house with some land, god know what issues you’d run into there. Some great examples on this forum of disputes with adjoining farmers over access etc.

Forget about it and move on.

Darc19

Pkiernan wrote: »

They were told by the builder it was 29 sqm

Internal or external? . A labourer doing the installation or someone that had the verified measurements?

Until you see or are fairly certain of a breach of planning, I would not report it.

Of course, you can go by the answers you want to hear, but I've had to bring peace between neighbours in two places I had a house and both were because one person THOUGHT the other person had done something wrong.

Believe it or not, I do act as a mediator in part of my work.

Graham

AmberGold wrote: »

Nothing you can do, they didn’t need to consult anyone

There's absolutely no way anyone on this thread can say that with certainty unless they know the specifics of the site or the intended use of the structure.

runawaybishop

Darc19 wrote: »

Internal or external?

How thick do you think walls are in a shed? At 29sqm it is pretty much guaranteed to be outside the exemptions, and that's before you go looking at available garden left, distance from boundaries and if it is habitable or not.

MrMusician18

How is the door above the fence??!

maestroamado

MrMusician18 wrote: »

How is the door above the fence??!

Your very strict, its only 4ft above boundery.
I am thinking the OP knows now what needs doing...

Bullocks

maestroamado wrote: »

Your very strict, its only 4ft above boundery.
I am thinking the OP knows now what needs doing...

I read it as being 4ft over the boundary fence which is already 6ft .

MrMusician18

maestroamado wrote: »

Your very strict, its only 4ft above boundery.
I am thinking the OP knows now what needs doing...

The doors and windows, from my reading of this thread are 10ft tall. This shed seems to be more like a light aircraft hangar than a garden room.

There's either a wholly inappropriate structure constructed in this garden or there is some exaggerating going on here.

Unless there are 10ft tall people in this space no one is going to be able to see out these enormous doors/windows.

Graham

MrMusician18 wrote: »

There's either a wholly inappropriate structure constructed in this garden or there is some exaggerating going on here.

Or there's a change in ground levels.

maestroamado

Graham wrote: »

Or there's a change in ground levels.

It has shared roof so ground levels be same...

Markcheese

If you're worried about having someone looking in your kitchen window , you could ask them to frost their windows and doors( ,there is a film you can put on glass easily enough ., )
If you're not thrilled about the whole idea of the cabin ,then get onto the council , you can make a submission later if it comes back up for planning .

Gumbo

dzer2 wrote: »

As already said caution would be the best course of action. I have built many of these structures for people and the one that overrides all guidelines is the temporary structure. As already confirmed its built on grass no foundations or concrete. It's a temporary structure in the council's view. If the OP has sent an inquiry then they will.have to wait until they get a response which I doubt will happen. What might happen is the county engineer will ask a local councillor if they have any knowledge of it and that will.be the end of it. As has happen a few times on other builds as they were built as temporary structures.

Take care D

If you’ve built many of these then you should know that there’s no such thing as temporary structures in the planning act.

This is something builders tell prospective clients to get in and get out and get paid. The council will not and have never made a judgement that something is temporary in nature.

Gumbo

Gumbo wrote: »

If you’ve built many of these then you should know that there’s no such thing as temporary structures in the planning act.

This is something builders tell prospective clients to get in and get out and get paid. The council will not and have never made a judgement that something is temporary in nature.

Also, there is no way in hell they enforcement department will ask any councillors about development. It’s a strict statutory process that has to be followed and no external involvement is allowed.

I hope you don’t advise clients on planning matters based on that post you’ve made !!

Gumbo

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The doors and windows, from my reading of this thread are 10ft tall. This shed seems to be more like a light aircraft hangar than a garden room.

There's either a wholly inappropriate structure constructed in this garden or there is some exaggerating going on here.

Unless there are 10ft tall people in this space no one is going to be able to see out these enormous doors/windows.

They are allowed to 3m high with flat roof or 4m high with pitches roof. No limit on heights of doors and windows or which orientation they are facing.

maestroamado

Meredith2016 wrote: »

I did not trespass on my neighbours property. As I clarified in an earlier post, the workmen advised us that the structure IS 29 sq m. I came here to ask for advice and didnt say I wanted to report my neighbours- I certainly dont go out looking for conflict and rows.
Thanks to all for the constructive advice.

I hope you get it sorted out as difficullt one.


Let us know what you decide to do and outcome...

looksee

If its a standard building then any of the people building it will be able to say 'its the 29 sq m one' so that is hardly a mystery. How the firm measure to achieve 29sq.m is another matter. However its done its over 25sqm.

Quote: 'If you’ve built many of these then you should know that there’s no such thing as temporary structures in the planning act.'

Maybe so, but I got planning last year for a project with a number of temporary structures, and the planning hinged on the fact that they were temporary - ie with no concrete foundations or fixed services (plumbing) - and could be removed without leaving any structure.

On the claim that there are no planning regs for garden sheds etc - there is a definite limit to the height of a garden building; for it to be possible to see 4ft of the door over a 6ft fence is patently ridiculous.

Quote: 'It has shared roof so ground levels be same...' how does a log cabin have a shared roof?

When I sold a house recently the purchasers solicitor demanded exemption certs for every bit of structure including an 8ft x 6ft garden shed built in a dip in the corner of the garden so that its roof was below boundary wall height, and a 3m x 4m shed that was exactly 4m high. Other (older) structures required retention, which they got. The exemptions were allowed, but there are obviously regs, or how could exemptions apply?

sydthebeat

There is no "temporary structure" exemption in Irish planning laws, apart from temp structures on building sites such as site offices etc.

If there are actual builders going around spreading this falsehood then that is very worrying.

MrMusician18

Gumbo wrote: »

They are allowed to 3m high with flat roof or 4m high with pitches roof. No limit on heights of doors and windows or which orientation they are facing.

There are practical limits on heights of doors.

In any case, 10ft tall windows are only a problem if you have 10ft tall people to look out of them.

kravmaga

Meredith2016 wrote: »

Hi,
My husband and I are hoping someone may be able to offer advice.
Our new neighbours have erected a wooden cabin in their back garden which we estimate to be circa 29 sq m. To put things into context; we live in the adjoining semi detached property, with small gardens and there is a 6 foot fence between us. They did not inform us that they planned on installing the structure, which has a pitched roof and x2 windows and a door which are above the height of the boundary fence.
A few years ago, we invested in a single storey extension (when the previous owners lived next door) and spoke to all our neighbours at the time to ensure they were happy. The back of our extension consists of a large sliding door. As the cabin is facing the direction of our house; they can see directly into our kitchen / living space and our little boys' bedroom upstairs.
As it has gone up only in the last few days, we do not yet know what it will be used for; but it is wired and there is at least two rooms in it- so we suspect it will be used as extra bedroom space (they have a few kids and previously said they wanted to extend). As well as our privacy concerns, we feel it will be a deterrant for potential buyers should we chose to sell and we are worried as to what it may potentially be used for(i.e.rented as there is access via side entrance). It blocks our light and noise may become an issue.
We have not approached our neighbours as we feel there is nothing they will do- the thing is built and there is no space for them to move it!
We are very reasonable people, have lived in the estate for over 15 years and have never had problems with neighbours in the past. The situation is causing us a lot of stress, especially as we were not told. My understanding is that planning is required for these types of buildings if they are used as living quarters (but not as a garden room / gym etc).
Can anyone offer us advice as to how best to deal with this? Anyone been in a similar situation? Thanks in advance

Hi OP,

Do you have some photos of the structure, you can still lodge a complaint with your local council planning dept, they can issue an enforcement notice if the structure required planning and your neighbour just went ahead without planning permission approved.

If its above 25 square metres then it needs planning permission. You estimate its 29 square metres.

See more info here: link

[snip]

9935452

Op. Is there any chance you could throw up a few pics to give us a better idea of the problem .
Is the cabin 10 ft to the roof or 10 ft to the top of the windows

In my experience the fact that the builder said 29 sq meters the likelyhood is it is 25 sq m in floor space .
Things like that are built to exploit the exempted from planning clauses.

A bit of advice is if you want to block the window . A basketball hoop with a big back board

80j2lc5y7u6qs9

Del2005 wrote: »

If being used as a shed they don't need to meet building regulations and if being used as a shed and meet the exemptions don't need Planning permission.

No one has any idea if the OPs neighbours need PP or not, so it could be lawful and then it won't devalue their property.

where can i get alist of the building regulations that apply to a living in/playing in space?

runawaybishop

Evangeline Fast Pony wrote: »

where can i get alist of the building regulations that apply to a living in/playing in space?

Any coco website will have the shed exemptions listed

http://www.dublincity.ie/main-menu-services-planning/frequently-asked-questions-planning#Can%20I%20build%20a%20garden%20shed%20on%20my%20property%20without%20permission?

Can I build a garden shed on my property without permission?
Yes, provided that:

It is not forward of the front wall of the house;
Not greater than 25sqm (or no. of sheds aggregated);
25sqm of garden space is left. N.B. extensions attached to house are not reckoned as private open space;
Shed finish is in keeping with the house;
Shed height: max 4m pitched roof; 3m flat roof;
It is not lived in or used for keeping of animals (pigs, ponies, horses, pigeons).

80j2lc5y7u6qs9

runawaybishop wrote: »

Any coco website will have the shed exemptions listed

http://www.dublincity.ie/main-menu-services-planning/frequently-asked-questions-planning#Can%20I%20build%20a%20garden%20shed%20on%20my%20property%20without%20permission?

Can I build a garden shed on my property without permission?
Yes, provided that:

It is not forward of the front wall of the house;
Not greater than 25sqm (or no. of sheds aggregated);
25sqm of garden space is left. N.B. extensions attached to house are not reckoned as private open space;
Shed finish is in keeping with the house;
Shed height: max 4m pitched roof; 3m flat roof;
It is not lived in or used for keeping of animals (pigs, ponies, horses, pigeons).

regulation for a living area I want

It is wooden with what look like aluminium doors
concrete floor
Not attached to the house
Standalone down the garden

runawaybishop

Evangeline Fast Pony wrote: »

regulation for a living area I want

It is wooden with what look like aluminium doors
concrete floor
Not attached to the house
Standalone down the garden

Yes, thats a shed, see the exemptions i posted above. May people call them garden rooms, offices etc but they are considered sheds. If you sleep in it it is no longer a shed and requires planning.

80j2lc5y7u6qs9

runawaybishop wrote: »

Yes, thats a shed, see the exemptions i posted above. May people call them garden rooms, offices etc but they are considered sheds. If you sleep in it it is no longer a shed and requires planning.

OK thanks I see now, I didn't realise it was a shed until you sleep in it and require planning if you sleep.

jim o doom

Meredith2016 wrote: »

Can anyone offer us advice as to how best to deal with this? Anyone been in a similar situation?
Thanks in advance

It's hard to say but it might make sense to talk to them first before any further steps are taken - you estimate that it is 29 sq m, and from what I have read, cabins under 25 sqm should not require planning (although local rules can differ). So your guess on the size of it might be off and it could be under that limit.

The problem is then, if you just report your neighbor to the council, then the council comes to have a look and the cabin ends up being under 25 sq m or , and the local rules do allow it, the neighbor will be aware that one of their neighbors has reported them, and it could easily cause some friction in the future, especially if they discover it is you who reported them.

I suppose in the situation you are in, I'd check the specific local council rules on cabins, see if you can find out what model their cabin is (you could ask conversationally where they got it) so that you know the measurements, and depending on the first two answers, then either talk to the neighbor or the council.

80j2lc5y7u6qs9

could you report it anonymously?are the council obliged to act on an anonymous report and check the building?

Uncle Pierre

Evangeline Fast Pony wrote: »

could you report it anonymously?are the council obliged to act on an anonymous report and check the building?

I know that here in Wexford, any planning complaint must be in writing, on a prescribed form that you download from the council website or pick up from one of the council offices. It must include your name, address, and phone number, and there's a section too for where you have to outline how you're affected by the thing you're complaining about.

I presume it's to weed out frivolous or vexatious complaints. Don't know if it's the same with other councils, though.

80j2lc5y7u6qs9

Uncle Pierre wrote: »

I know that here in Wexford, any planning complaint must be in writing, on a prescribed form that you download from the council website or pick up from one of the council offices. It must include your name, address, and phone number, and there's a section too for where you have to outline how you're affected by the thing you're complaining about.

I presume it's to weed out frivolous or vexatious complaints. Don't know if it's the same with other councils, though.

is the law not enforced even if one is not affected?

Gumbo

Evangeline Fast Pony wrote: »

where can i get alist of the building regulations that apply to a living in/playing in space?

Technical Guidance Documents Parts A-M

https://www.housing.gov.ie/housing/building-standards/tgd-part-d-materials-and-workmanship/technical-guidance-documents

Gumbo

Evangeline Fast Pony wrote: »

could you report it anonymously?are the council obliged to act on an anonymous report and check the building?

No.
You report to Planning Enforcement.
They take all your details.
Your details will be kept confidential, even if it goes to 1court, that's exactly why the Council carry out their own inspection so they can reply on their own inspection record in court.

Darc19

runawaybishop wrote: »

How thick do you think walls are in a shed? At 29sqm it is pretty much guaranteed to be outside the exemptions, and that's before you go looking at available garden left, distance from boundaries and if it is habitable or not.

Op says it's a cabin. 29sqm gross would be about 25sqm net.

I've a large basic garden shed. It's 16'x10' 2". That's a gross 15.1 sqm.
The net internal space is 13.53 sqm

So add about 4cm additional wall thickness and a 29sqm gross is under 25sqm net internal