2020-21 UEFA Europa League

The Golden Miller

Ajax made a mess of their Roma tie, but were clearly the better side. United lucky they didn't have to face Ajax tbh, we would have seen how limited this United side really is. Over performed this year tbh, Ajax would have made a show of them, their limited style completely playing into Ajax's hands

NIMAN

Good to see the 'little team' win out again.
Karma for Utd for trying to get the ESL up and running.

The Golden Miller

NIMAN wrote: »

Good to see the 'little team' win out again.
Karma for Utd for trying to get the ESL up and running.

Hard to know how much you'd want karma to effect the ESL clubs, the fans don't deserve it really. United fans in fairness, were totally against it. They don't deserve karma over this. And I hate United

Liverpool do more so with the Leeds fiasco

Iago

eagle eye wrote: »

United are clearly on the up. I'm sure they'll add some big signings in the summer.

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Maybe... I dunno though... I'm not sure how confident I'd be on them even holding par with another 2nd place finish next season.

I suppose the problem is that you can personally improve your own team, but still fall back. I wouldn't be terribly shocked next season to see one (or both) of Chelsea and Liverpool finish higher.

(My opinion instantly changes if, for instance, the now-free Conte were to replace Ole though)

I said Villeareal would win before the game. this united team are winning nothing as long as Ole is on the bench, the owners are happy enough with that tbh.

maybe make top 4 again next year if Spurs continue to implode and Arsenal don't get going. Even then we're a long way off city, liverpool and even chelsea so we have to try to be the best of the rest and as trajectories go I don't see much changing in that regard in the short term.

nullzero

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Ajax made a mess of their Roma tie, but were clearly the better side. United lucky they didn't have to face Ajax tbh, we would have seen how limited this United side really is. Over performed this year tbh, Ajax would have made a show of them, their limited style completely playing into Ajax's hands

The issues with United aren't limitations of the players but rather the fact that the manager refuses to rotate the squad.

The players are exhausted and have been for the best part of a month.

You stated United would be schooled by AC Milan a few months ago. Essentially you believe this United side are completely useless, which isn't the case, in fact you've been on record describing the treble in 99 as a fluke and essentially all United's success in the entire history of the club as undeserved.

It's the absolute apex of bitterness, I get it, you're a Leeds fan and you hate United but your declarations about this United side have been consistently wrong, the type of whataboutery you're outlining above about United having a "limited style" that would play into Ajaxs hands is complete rubbish and has no basis in fact.

gimli2112

What's the Liverpool Leeds fiasco? Are Leeds another one of these clubs we're in a feud with that we don't know about?

SlickRic

nullzero wrote: »

The issues with United aren't limitations of the players but rather the fact that the manager refuses to rotate the squad.

And this is the long and short of it.

Ole has steadied everything marvellously. He has done his job. He says the right things about winning, and the club needing to get back, but I think it's obvious he isn't quite the man who'll get Utd to the next stage.

His inability to use his squad is farcical. He was asked about not making a sub until 100 minutes, and he literally talked about Greenwood, Bruno, Rashford and Cavani all being matchwinners, Pogba being Pogba, and McTominay being MOTM. So he said he didn't know who to take off. And he's said that before.

It's a glaring inadequacy. He seems to mistrust the players outside the top 14. Also, it's quite obvious what his tactic always is. Keep the base solid, and hope one of your matchwinners makes something happen out of somewhere. That's only fine up to a point.

nullzero

SlickRic wrote: »

And this is the long and short of it.

Ole has steadied everything marvellously. He has done his job. He says the right things about winning, and the club needing to get back, but I think it's obvious he isn't quite the man who'll get Utd to the next stage.

His inability to use his squad is farcical. He was asked about not making a sub until 100 minutes, and he literally talked about Greenwood, Bruno, Rashford and Cavani all being matchwinners, Pogba being Pogba, and McTominay being MOTM. So he said he didn't know who to take off. And he's said that before.

It's a glaring inadequacy. He seems to mistrust the players outside the top 14. Also, it's quite obvious what his tactic always is. Keep the base solid, and hope one of your matchwinners makes something happen out of somewhere. That's only fine up to a point.

Those match winners have all been over used over the course of this season and have been out on their feet for the last month or so.

Exactly like the end of last season, the accumulated fatigue destroyed Uniteds end to the season.

Had we cut out the stupid mistakes in the league and been within a few points of City coming into May, with Solksjaer in charge we would have ended up throwing any chance at the title away because of fatigued players.

It's so glaringly obvious to everyone but Solksjaer, a player who was known as a super sub. The guy is a club legend but he's out of his depth and any properly run club would be letting him go and giving the job to Conte right now.

TitianGerm

nullzero wrote: »

Those match winners have all been over used over the course of this season and have been out on their feet for the last month or so.

Exactly like the end of last season, the accumulated fatigue destroyed Uniteds end to the season.

Had we cut out the stupid mistakes in the league and been within a few points of City coming into May, with Solksjaer in charge we would have ended up throwing any chance at the title away because of fatigued players.

It's so glaringly obvious to everyone but Solksjaer, a player who was known as a super sub. The guy is a club legend but he's out of his depth and any properly run club would be letting him go and giving the job to Conte right now.

Rashford is going to be finished by the time he's 28. Ole absolutely running him into the ground and continues to play him even when he's injured. At some point the manager has to take some responsibility and tell the player no you're not playing even if they want to play.

Mushy

gimli2112 wrote: »

What's the Liverpool Leeds fiasco? Are Leeds another one of these clubs we're in a feud with that we don't know about?

Only thing I can think of is Henderson being sour over the tshirts Leeds left for Liverpool to wear. Much ado about nothing!

The Golden Miller

nullzero wrote: »

The issues with United aren't limitations of the players but rather the fact that the manager refuses to rotate the squad.

The players are exhausted and have been for the best part of a month.

You stated United would be schooled by AC Milan a few months ago. Essentially you believe this United side are completely useless, which isn't the case, in fact you've been on record describing the treble in 99 as a fluke and essentially all United's success in the entire history of the club as undeserved.

It's the absolute apex of bitterness, I get it, you're a Leeds fan and you hate United but your declarations about this United side have been consistently wrong, the type of whataboutery you're outlining above about United having a "limited style" that would play into Ajaxs hands is complete rubbish and has no basis in fact.

The were schooled by Milan from a technical stand point, they are just limited themselves. Had the a proper fit world class striker, the tie would of been over after the first leg. United are a strong and powerful team, but limited technically.

I never said everything they won was a fluke. Disingenuous in the extreme. It was about Ferguson underachieving in Europe

yourdeadwright

I wonder how long can the media pretend that Rashford is a top player,
He's just not good enough to start every week for a club like United

McFly85

As long as Ole is there, the Europa League will be the pinnacle of the clubs ambition. While he's done a pretty good job, he's far too slow to adapt tactically - he tends to tinker until he finds something that works and just does that until it doesn't. It's very difficult to think of an Ole team being able to play their way to the later stages of the CL but just trying to counterattack.

While he's improved their league position, I would be surprised to see him match that next season. They got their points away from home in a season without fans, and those matches will be automatically tougher next year. I think the only way Ole would get near a title challenge is in a Leicester type season where all of the traditional powerhouses are faltering/changing managers etc. Pep has set the target to at least 90 points to even be in the conversation, so while managers like him/Klopp/Tuchel are involved it's reasonable to think that will continue.

But I'm sure the Utd board will see this season as a success, so Ole will stay on. They might even get Kane or Sancho this summer. But without a technically adept manager, I think this season is as good as it gets for them.

El Gato De Negocios

TitianGerm wrote: »

Rashford is going to be finished by the time he's 28. Ole absolutely running him into the ground and continues to play him even when he's injured. At some point the manager has to take some responsibility and tell the player no you're not playing even if they want to play.

Its the same as last season. He broke something in his back, Ole continued to play him and that exacerbated the injury. Then the rona hit so he got a few months off but was thrown straight back in at the end of the season. The kid is burned out. Would love if he wasnt brought to the Euros, needs a proper rest.

The Golden Miller

gimli2112 wrote: »

What's the Liverpool Leeds fiasco? Are Leeds another one of these clubs we're in a feud with that we don't know about?

Klopp and players were quick to point out it had nothing to do with them, the hierarchy of the club. Well as the face of the club, they should of made a point of sticking it to the hierarchy, which is what the fans would of wanted. But no, sat on the fence

osarusan

gimli2112 wrote: »

I couldn't listen to the Virgin commentary, it was like they were watching a different game. Utd were clearly the better side but to hear the guys talk you'd swear they were all over the Spanish which wasn't the case at all.

Damien Delaney on Virgin Media was going on at half-time about how Man United are pressing and winning the midfield battle and so on...there was no midfield battle really, Villareal just conceded two thirds of the pitch and defended the final third with a compact formation and allowed Man United to lay siege to their penalty area, but backed themselves to defend.


And, blocked shot leading to Cavani's goal aside, they did it very very well all night.


Looking back on the game, what really strikes me is the lack of tactical or personnel changes made by Solskjaer over the whole 120 minutes. They just kept doing the same thing that obviously wasn't going to break Villareal down. It's the kind of game where managers really prove their value in the way they respond to a particular formation and the problems it poses, and Solskjaer offered very little in terms of solving it.

Jelle1880

gimli2112 wrote: »

I couldn't listen to the Virgin commentary, it was like they were watching a different game. Utd were clearly the better side but to hear the guys talk you'd swear they were all over the Spanish which wasn't the case at all.
Too often Ole's held them back and with a better manager I now feel they're in a better position for a while to kick on.

Commentary in general was terrible.

I don't know who it was but at one point the commentator on my stream said 'At the end, one of these teams will lift a European Cup'.

I mean... obviously ?

gimli2112

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Klopp and players were quick to point out it had nothing to do with them, the hierarchy of the club. Well as the face of the club, they should of made a point of sticking it to the hierarchy, which is what the fans would of wanted. But no, sat on the fence

oh ok I thought we had a spat with Leeds.

I can't blame the playing staff or team management for that. There's plenty of stuff my employer does that I don't agree with but I'm not going to publicly speak out about it for obvious reasons.
Milner said after the game that the players didn't want it but I don't think anyone at that level anywhere was coming out and saying the hierarchy are wrong. As the days went by some got more vocal but even then well short of any condemnation.

ArielAtom

The single worst thing to come out of last night is Ole refusal to trust his bench. Van De Beek should be on his way, he has suffered enough under a manager who is clearly not up to managing at a high level. Hand in your transfer request now Donny.

TitianGerm

ArielAtom wrote: »

The single worst thing to come out of last night is Ole refusal to trust his bench. Van De Beek should be on his way, he has suffered enough under a manager who is clearly not up to managing at a high level. Hand in your transfer request now Donny.

VDB has been the worst signing of last summer and it's not even down to the lad because he's had feck all game time to actually show what he can do.

12 months of his career wasted and €40m down the drain for United.

ArielAtom

TitianGerm wrote: »

VDB has been the worst signing of last summer and it's not even down to the lad because he's had feck all game time to actually show what he can do.

12 months of his career wasted and €40m down the drain for United.

I would argue he was not a bad signing, most top clubs were interested in signing him. It is all Oles fault as he has not given the lad an opportunity. He could move to most top sides in Europe and fit in. I know you qualified your statement with he got feck all game time. That does not mean a bad signing, just poor management.

TitianGerm

ArielAtom wrote: »

I would argue he was not a bad signing, most top clubs were interested in signing him. It is all Oles fault as he has not given the lad an opportunity. He could move to most top sides in Europe and fit in. I know you qualified your statement with he got feck all game time. That does not mean a bad signing, just poor management.

It is a bad signing because he hasn't contributed anything to the team.

I've said it's not his fault and your right it's all down to poor management.

ArielAtom

TitianGerm wrote: »

It is a bad signing because he hasn't contributed anything to the team.

I've said it's not his fault and your right it's all down to poor management.

I know you agreed with poor management, but you can't say it's a poor signing because he's contributed nothing to the team when OGS has not played him, that's simply a poor manager not using a quality player when at his disposal.

Hopefully his transfer request is on OGS table 1st thing this morning.

nullzero

The Golden Miller wrote: »

The were schooled by Milan from a technical stand point, they are just limited themselves. Had the a proper fit world class striker, the tie would of been over after the first leg. United are a strong and powerful team, but limited technically.

I never said everything they won was a fluke. Disingenuous in the extreme. It was about Ferguson underachieving in Europe

United weren't schooled by Milan, talk about disingenuous. You professed about how Milan were going to wipe the floor with United before the first leg.

You also stated United didn't deserve the majority of what they achieved under Ferguson.

I don't like rival clubs for obvious reasons, but when you start saying that every side they come up against is inherently superior and that all their past success wasn't deserved you're onto another level of self delusion and bitterness.

If United were playing Swindon in the league cup you'd be in the United thread waxing lyrical about how Swindon are more tactically astute than United and how they're going to make a mockery of United.

I get that you're jealous of Uniteds success but come on.

yourdeadwright

Bruno again failed to turn up on the big occasion

Slattsy

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Bruno again failed to turn up on the big occasion

I've heard from friends in Poland that he has just arrived at the stadium.

Fitz*

nullzero wrote: »

The issues with United aren't limitations of the players but rather the fact that the manager refuses to rotate the squad.

The players are exhausted and have been for the best part of a month

A lot can be put down to momentum too, IMO.

Man Utd were in great form in April, on a good winning run with all the momentum behind them. Ready to finish on a high in the league and in Europe. The Milan tie was somewhat difficult as they were were placed in Italy at the time.

But then something happened outside Old Trafford with the Man United fans and there was a game postponed, which created a fixture backlog.

This backlog of games then came and OGS didn't know what to do. They had CL football all but officially secured at this point but instead of casually rotating 2-3 players every game over the next few weeks, he completely ballsed it up. Starting all 11 players one game, and then making 11 changes the next game, before making 11 changes again the following game. It sent a message to the players that some were first choice and some were reserves. All rhythm and momentum was completely lost

Chopping & changing players was causing defeats and Man United got stuck in a rut of defeats and poor performances and results. When OGS looked to the bench last night, he saw players like Mata, Van Den Beek, Telles, James etc who were basically only told last week they were reserves. Some of those are leaving the club this summer and some might want to now. So his first sub was to bring on the only first choice player he had - Fred. A holding midfielder on for a forward.

Rhythm, momentum & confidence does an awful lot in football.

Shanee.

Fitz* wrote: »

A lot can be put down to momentum too, IMO.

Man Utd were in great form in April, on a good winning run with all the momentum behind them. Ready to finish on a high in the league and in Europe. The Milan tie was somewhat difficult as they were were placed in Italy at the time.

But then something happened outside Old Trafford with the Man United fans and there was a game postponed, which created a fixture backlog.

This backlog of games then came and OGS didn't know what to do. They had CL football all but officially secured at this point but instead of casually rotating 2-3 players every game over the next few weeks, he completely ballsed it up. Starting all 11 players one game, and then making 11 changes the next game, before making 11 changes again the following game. It sent a message to the players that some were first choice and some were reserves. All rhythm and momentum was completely lost

Chopping & changing players was causing defeats and Man United got stuck in a rut of defeats and poor performances and results. When OGS looked to the bench last night, he saw players like Mata, Van Den Beek, Telles, James etc who were basically only told last week they were reserves. Some of those are leaving the club this summer and some might want to now. So his first sub was to bring on the only first choice player he had - Fred. A holding midfielder on for a forward.

Rhythm, momentum & confidence does an awful lot in football.

Ah, United fans fcuking up their season - you love to see it!

The Golden Miller

gimli2112 wrote: »

oh ok I thought we had a spat with Leeds.

I can't blame the playing staff or team management for that. There's plenty of stuff my employer does that I don't agree with but I'm not going to publicly speak out about it for obvious reasons.
Milner said after the game that the players didn't want it but I don't think anyone at that level anywhere was coming out and saying the hierarchy are wrong. As the days went by some got more vocal but even then well short of any condemnation.

Hardly the same as your normal job, they play for the fans. Should have made a stand in solidarity with the fans, instead mealy mouthed rubbish not to upset the owner

The Golden Miller

gimli2112 wrote: »

oh ok I thought we had a spat with Leeds.

I can't blame the playing staff or team management for that. There's plenty of stuff my employer does that I don't agree with but I'm not going to publicly speak out about it for obvious reasons.
Milner said after the game that the players didn't want it but I don't think anyone at that level anywhere was coming out and saying the hierarchy are wrong. As the days went by some got more vocal but even then well short of any condemnation.

Hardly the same as your normal job, they play for the fans. Should have made a stand in solidarity with the fans, instead mealy mouthed rubbish not to upset the owner

gimli2112

I don't know there's no point putting your livelihood at risk particularly over this which after all was simply a commercial venture. The fact that some fans and Sky went apocalyptic shouldn't really have a bearing on things.

If I was a professional footballer I wouldn't have given a flying fcuk about it.

The Golden Miller

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Hardly the same as your normal job, they play for the fans. Should have made a stand in solidarity with the fans, instead mealy mouthed rubbish not to upset the owner

You want to know the best way to appease fans? Win games. Which they did thankfully Nobody cares, it's history now. I had actually forgotten about it completely.

Anyway this is off topic, let's not take away from Villarreals win, which was remarkable the more I read about them.

The Golden Miller

6 wrote: »

You want to know the best way to appease fans? Win games. Which they did thankfully Nobody cares, it's history now. I had actually forgotten about it completely.

Anyway this is off topic, let's not take away from Villarreals win, which was remarkable the more I read about them.

Their CL run in 06 was even more remarkable. Played some of the best football I've ever seen, particularly v Inter and second leg with Arsenal. Think they finished second in the league too. Riquelme was sublime that season. Great little club

The Golden Miller

Also beat Everton 5-1 I think. Riquelme never got the plaudits he deserved, best player in the world at the time. He was the one who brought them up to this level, then money came in etc

eagle eye

Slattsy wrote:

Best team won. No one can have any complaints.

It was a draw after regular time and extra time with very few chances created by either side.
A goalkeeper missed a penalty to decide it.
So I think your decision that one team was better than the other is a bit off.
Delighted for Villarreal personally, love to see small clubs win.

breezy1985

Fitz* wrote: »

A lot can be put down to momentum too, IMO.

Man Utd were in great form in April, on a good winning run with all the momentum behind them. Ready to finish on a high in the league and in Europe. The Milan tie was somewhat difficult as they were were placed in Italy at the time.

But then something happened outside Old Trafford with the Man United fans and there was a game postponed, which created a fixture backlog.

This backlog of games then came and OGS didn't know what to do. They had CL football all but officially secured at this point but instead of casually rotating 2-3 players every game over the next few weeks, he completely ballsed it up. Starting all 11 players one game, and then making 11 changes the next game, before making 11 changes again the following game. It sent a message to the players that some were first choice and some were reserves. All rhythm and momentum was completely lost

Chopping & changing players was causing defeats and Man United got stuck in a rut of defeats and poor performances and results. When OGS looked to the bench last night, he saw players like Mata, Van Den Beek, Telles, James etc who were basically only told last week they were reserves. Some of those are leaving the club this summer and some might want to now. So his first sub was to bring on the only first choice player he had - Fred. A holding midfielder on for a forward.

Rhythm, momentum & confidence does an awful lot in football.

Roma was a dead rubber and I would expect Liverpool and Leicester to beat them so its only the Fulham game that is a shock

Shanotheslayer

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Also beat Everton 5-1 I think. Riquelme never got the plaudits he deserved, best player in the world at the time. He was the one who brought them up to this level, then money came in etc

They clapped us in the only time I remember Everton getting top 4. It was an absolute mauling. Pretty Riquelme played a stormer.

jacool

eagle eye wrote: »

It was a draw after regular time and extra time with very few chances created by either side.
A goalkeeper missed a penalty to decide it.
So I think your decision that one team was better than the other is a bit off.
Delighted for Villarreal personally, love to see small clubs win.

The teams were equally matched.
All I heard after the game on BT was "Well their reward now is Champions League football" and someone said "They''ll be found out there."
He was talking about Villarreal but could have been talking about Man. Utd.
They were found out there this year already and nothing has changed.
The only thing that has me confused about Man. Utd. is, how did they dismantle Man. City in the league in March?

breezy1985

jacool wrote: »

The teams were equally matched.
All I heard after the game on BT was "Well their reward now is Champions League football" and someone said "They''ll be found out there."
He was talking about Villarreal but could have been talking about Man. Utd.
They were found out there this year already and nothing has changed.
The only thing that has me confused about Man. Utd. is, how did they dismantle Man. City in the league in March?

The old poor Man City used take the CL winning United teams apart from time to time too. All matches come with their own variables and can't really be compared like that

Muahahaha

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Klopp and players were quick to point out it had nothing to do with them, the hierarchy of the club. Well as the face of the club, they should of made a point of sticking it to the hierarchy, which is what the fans would of wanted. But no, sat on the fence

You must have missed the Liverpool players statement where they as a team came out against the Super League "We don’t like it and we don’t want it to happen. This is our collective position. Our commitment to this football club and its supporters is absolute and unconditional"

Id hardly call that sitting on the fence, they came out against it unequivocally.

~Rebel~

Muahahaha wrote: »

You must have missed the Liverpool players statement where they as a team came out against the Super League "We don’t like it and we don’t want it to happen. This is our collective position. Our commitment to this football club and its supporters is absolute and unconditional"

Id hardly call that sitting on the fence, they came out against it unequivocally.

Also, like, if Leeds had actually wanted a collective show of support they might have, maybe, said something about it beforehand to the Liverpool staff/team/manager/anyone? Instead of just leaving passive aggressive t-shirts there to be found in the dressing room? Looks far more likely it was done as a little barb before the match for a bit of gamesmanship, rather than any sort of show of solidarity. I've no problem with that by the way, was quite a clever little move on their part, but let's not pretend it was something that it wasn't.


Elsewhere, more on topic, was reading earlier that almost half of Villarreal's main squad either came through the academy or joined young enough to spend time in the academy before graduating to the senior team. That's pretty remarkable, while still being quite successful!

jmayo

Knex* wrote: »

Villarreal pretty poor winners considering their approach to the game and how they played, but United also poor and never quite put them under the necessary pressure to capitalise on their negativity.

Pens were great entertainment at least.

I hate this shyte.

Were a team that probably cost less to put together than a couple of united players meant to try go toe to toe with them in open football?

Are a team meant to play to their strengths or try and match the strengths of the other team just so that people watching maybe entertained?

Winning is what matters, not how much you entertain people who have no interest in your team.

Also noticable how few penalties were saved when keepers can no longer come off the line.

And Emery played basically the same team at the weekend against one of the biggest sides in their league whereas united rested half of theirs.
Some would call it karma that united lost on penalties.

Also brilliant to see two of the founders of the Super League get a finger in their eye from a little club and their coach.

Agent Coulson

Just reading all the omens around 26 that Man U had on there side going into the game as reasons they were going to win and Ole leaves Henderson number 26 on the bench.

The Golden Miller

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

They clapped us in the only time I remember Everton getting top 4. It was an absolute mauling. Pretty Riquelme played a stormer.

Unfortunate how it ended for him with Villareal and his time in Europe. Still not sure what happened or why he left.

Without doubt the worst substitution of all time was taking him off v Germany in the 06 world cup. Germany hardly got a chance, Riquelme dictating everything. Taken off and inititive handed to Germany and Argentina went out. Had he stayed on they would of won the World Cup that year. Riquelme, Aimar and Messi watching helplessly from the bench by full time