Turkey's aggression towards Greece

biko

Mr Tayyip Erdoğan is really pushing it with Europe, mainly neighbour Greece.

Last year Turkey tried to flood Europe with refugees.
Now it looks like Erdoğan is pushing to become a major leader of the Islamic world.
Remember that the capital of the Ottoman Empire was Istanbul so he has history to uphold.
Converting Haga Sofia into a mosque was a first step back to Ottoman times.

He is also trying to undo the Treaty of Lausanne. Mr Erdogan said the 1923 treaty that settled Turkey's borders after World War One was not being applied fairly.

For reasons of ideology, economics, and ego, Erdoğan now seeks to undo the Lausanne Treaty: Ideology because Erdoğan seeks to regain control of certain Ottoman territories and change the demographics of areas outside Turkey’s borders; economics because Turkey seeks to steal resources from recognized Greek and Cypriot exclusive economic zones; and, ego, because Erdoğan wants to top Atatürk’s legacy as a military victor.

Greek and Turkish fighter jets engaged in mock dogfights this week over the Greek island of Kastellorizo, just a mile and a half from the Turkish coast, causing tourists to flee.

It has now slammed a maritime agreement betwixt Egypt and Greece.

Both Merkel and Macron has tried to negotiate.

dxhound2005

As someone said about the "Irish Problem", put the whole lot of them on an island somewhere and let them sort it out among themselves. Maybe Cyprus.

Zebra3

If he attacks Greece, then NATO is obliged to defend Greece so I doubt much will happen, if it does, it doesn't bode well for Turkey.

dxhound2005

Turkey is a member of NATO.

Zebra3

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Turkey is a member of NATO.

And?

Eduard Khil

Constantinople was capital of the Roman Empire a helluva lot more significant than Istanbul and the Byzantine empire.

This Turkish guy is the pure epitome of paranoid delusions beset on all sides by enemies he has to strike first for fear of being taken out. A calling card of the dictator.

Your Face

He really wants to get into a scrap with the Greeks?
He is a backwards clown who knows his power is slipping.

Eduard Khil

Power for a dictator is emphasized by force as long as he continues these shows of force he has the power

biko

Your Face wrote: »

He really wants to get into a scrap with the Greeks?

Yes, he knows the Greeks cannot handle a full-on Turkish attack.
The Turkish army is way more seasoned.

EU won't have the balls to do anything, and since US has bases in Turkey they are not likely to interfere, which leaves Russia.
Putin can stop Erdogan but the question is, does he want to?

Yurt2

biko wrote: »

Yes, he knows the Greeks cannot handle a full-on Turkish attack.
The Turkish army is way more seasoned.

EU won't have the balls to do anything, and since US has bases in Turkey they are not likely to interfere, which leaves Russia.
Putin can stop Erdogan but the question is, does he want to?

The Turks are already hanging on to their status as NATO allies by a thread as it is. They're the odd man out values-wise. They may as well shoot themselves in the d*ck at the same time as attacking Greece. NATO would not stand by if the autocratic black sheep of the family attacked a democratic treaty ally that is also an EU member.

fly_agaric

Biko wrote:

EU won't have the balls to do anything

What has the EUs "balls" got to do with it Biko?
The EU doesn't have an army for all the Irish eurosceptic wailing about it over the years so can't do much militarily if Turkey actually attacks Greece. There is a mutual defence clause in treaties afair but to actually implement it will be up to the member states that have those capabilities.

biko

If Greece and Turkey kick off then 4 million Turks living in Germany might just get involved too.

Your Face

biko wrote: »

Yes, he knows the Greeks cannot handle a full-on Turkish attack.
The Turkish army is way more seasoned.

This type of thinking is where every would-be invader of Greece becomes undone.

biko

It's been a while since Xerxes

return guide

biko wrote: »

Yes, he knows the Greeks cannot handle a full-on Turkish attack.
The Turkish army is way more seasoned.

Il Duce thought the same in 1940 when he ordered the legions in.:rolleyes:

TheValeyard

Yeah erdogan has a hint of Hitler about him. Maybe his grandad served with the SS or friends with the grand Mufti of Jerusalem.

2u2me

Zebra3 wrote: »

And?

They are the second largest military power in NATO next to the US.

In 2016 Erdogan avoided a coup by the 'peace at home council'. The Council cited an erosion of secularism and elimination of democratic rule.

During the coup 300 were killed and a further 2,100 injured.
More than 77,000 people have since been arrested and over 160,000 fired from their jobs including teachers, judges and soldiers.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/turkey-elections-arrests-insulting-president-erdogan-opposition-a8414146.html

TheBlackPill

It won't be just Greece
As the west appears weak and conflicted any border region with Islam will be targetted. ITs amazing how quickly the Caucasus settled down, when Russia over came its post soviet weakness

Jizique

Yurt! wrote: »

The Turks are already hanging on to their status as NATO allies by a thread as it is. They're the odd man out values-wise. They may as well shoot themselves in the d*ck at the same time as attacking Greece. NATO would not stand by if the autocratic black sheep of the family attacked a democratic treaty ally that is also an EU member.

I thought the US under Trump was the most out there member of NATO

Montage of Feck

Its a tragedy of European history that due to differences in Christian theology the Byzantine empire was abandoned to its fate by Western Europe. They then subsequently abandoned the Greeks and Armenians following WW1 and the fall of the Ottoman empire.

biko

Since Turkey's genocide of the Armenians 100 years ago they have not kept quiet.
Invasion of Cyprus
Invasion of Iraq
Invasion of Libya
Invasion of Syria
They are actively hunting Kurdish fighters, the very men and women that freed the world of ISIS.

The Greek army do not have the same battel-readiness as over 600.000 Turkish soldiers.

biko

biko wrote: »

If Greece and Turkey kick off then 4 million Turks living in Germany might just get involved too.

What do you know about Turks living in Germany? Which Turks do you know? The Erdogan supporters or the Turks who see themselves as Kurds or the Turks who are from less well known schools of Islam who found themselves most unwelcome in Turkey. Are they the Female Turks who enjoy and have enough reminders to appreciate the free lifestyle that they enjoy in Germany.
If you could whip together 200k blowhard Erdogan supporters in Germany you'd be doing well.

biko

Deleted User wrote: »

If you could whip together 200k blowhard Erdogan supporters in Germany you'd be doing well.

Support for Erdogan was proportionally higher among the Turkish community in Germany than it was in Turkey.


https://www.dw.com/en/turks-in-germany-praise-our-leader-after-two-thirds-vote-for-erdogan/a-44378286

dxhound2005

biko wrote: »

Since Turkey's genocide of the Armenians 100 years ago they have not kept quiet.
Invasion of Cyprus
Invasion of Iraq
Invasion of Libya
Invasion of Syria
They are actively hunting Kurdish fighters, the very men and women that freed the world of ISIS.

The Greek army do not have the same battel-readiness as over 600.000 Turkish soldiers.

Looks like they are mostly interested in killing Muslims, not Christians.

biko

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Looks like they are mostly interested in killing Muslims, not Christians.

I doubt they always kill based on religious grounds but Amernians and Greeks are Christians.
The invasion of Iraq and Syria are for Kurds (Sunni I suppose).

dxhound2005

biko wrote: »

I doubt they always kill based on religious grounds but Amernians and Greeks are Christians.
The invasion of Iraq and Syria are for Kurds.

So no, they are not killing Muslims.

Their record against the Kurds does not point to a clean and quick defeat for Greece.

biko

I edited my post. Although Kurds are muslim I think the Turks don't care.
Turks and Kurds have been at ends for as long as anyone can remember.

Zebra3

2u2me wrote: »

They are the second largest military power in NATO next to the US.

In 2016 Erdogan avoided a coup by the 'peace at home council'. The Council cited an erosion of secularism and elimination of democratic rule.

During the coup 300 were killed and a further 2,100 injured.
More than 77,000 people have since been arrested and over 160,000 fired from their jobs including teachers, judges and soldiers.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/turkey-elections-arrests-insulting-president-erdogan-opposition-a8414146.html

If Turkey attacks Greece and NATO members stand by and let Greece be defeated, what's the point of NATO?

The idea of Turkey just strolling into Athens.... :rolleyes:

biko

biko wrote: »

Support for Erdogan was proportionally higher among the Turkish community in Germany than it was in Turkey.


https://www.dw.com/en/turks-in-germany-praise-our-leader-after-two-thirds-vote-for-erdogan/a-44378286

Where did you get the 4 million number from? Only 1.44million Turks in Germany have a right to vote in Turkish elections according to the stats I found and only 1.1million according to your link. Seems it is shrinking by the day.
52.59% who cast their vote in favour of Erdogan.
Only 475k voted according to your report so I stand by statement that you'd be lucky to get 200k blowhards to come out in favour of Turkey and then a huge proportion of them would be beaten off the streets by their owns wives, sons and daughters for the embarrassment they would case.

BTW don't make the mistake of calling a 2nd generation immigrant a Turk. They see themselves as German and expect to be recognised as such.

I suppose the narrative of 4 million rebellious Turks looking to undermine Germany sounds salivating to you and you would like to propagate that misconception.

biko

Should anyone be interested in Turkey's Syria adventures
https://youtu.be/oUeXaPaKF50

biko

Deleted User wrote: »

Where did you get the 4 million number from?

Germany and Turkey have a special and uneasy connection in the form of some four million Turks living in Germany.

https://www.handelsblatt.com/english/handelsblatt-explains-why-german-turks-are-numerous-divided-and-bitter/23568860.html

There are 4 million Turks in Germany. How have they integrated?

https://www.trtworld.com/europe/there-are-4-million-turks-in-germany-how-have-they-integrated--6360

Deleted User wrote: »

I suppose the narrative of 4 million rebellious Turks looking to undermine Germany sounds salivating to you and you would like to propagate that misconception.

I doubt all 4 million would do something but you only need a small number to organise under the Grey Wolves. Do you think no Turks in Germany will act if Turkey goes to war with Greece, considering the support for German-Turkish Erdogan is so big?