2020-21 UEFA Champions League

happyoutscan

Top manager but he ****ed up big time last night.

Hist team selection was pants, and going by the pre-game discussion here almost everyone thought the same. Whether by ego or just over thinking it, he made a mess of it.

SlickRic

6 wrote: »

Pep is a quality manager. Yes, he spends a lot, but he's still a top manager. This season aside he has made 95+ points the total to aim for to win the league.

Personally I was happy to see him fail again in Europe, but recognise he is still superb.

Put it on this way, I'll be happy when he goes as whoever City bring it won't have them getting near 100 points as the norm.

I think 2 things can be true here.

He's a league winning machine for any top tier club that wants him and will back him, becaise his teams and style of play simply overwhelm the majority of inferior teams in a league.

But he does struggle to get the Champions League, because he invariably faces teams, in one off fixtures, who have the players in a one off fixture to do him. And he tends to feel as though he has to out-think them. And he does things he really shouldn't.

He's elite, but all managers have weaknesses. This is his.

Agent Coulson

Pep can dream that he will meet Ole and Man U in the final next season and make it a hat trick of wins against Man U to lift Old Big Ears.

gimli2112

The Russian gave Mourinho all the money in the world for six or seven years and he couldn't win it. I think they're an interesting contrast, very different philosophies, very different people.
If you we're talking about them and said that lad's class, you'd all know who I was talking about.

adox

I think Pep knew that Tuchel seemed to have his number and went with a bit of a Hail Mary effort to counteract it.

It backfired badly and exposed the weakest part of his philosophy badly.

It was a huge error but I can see why he thought he should try it.

The fact that it took him so long to realize it wasn’t working was boardering on Ole levels of ignorance.

osarusan

Pep messed up badly, but the idea that he favoured a strategy that he felt was less likely to work, but would lead to more fawning articles about his genius if it did work, is beyond stupid.

breezy1985

osarusan wrote: »

Pep messed up badly, but the idea that he favoured a strategy that he felt was less likely to work, but would lead to more fawning articles about his genius if it did work, is beyond stupid.

Its called over confidence and a belief in your own BS. Its not the first time it has happened someone so it's far from beyond stupid.

He didn't feel it was less likely to work he convinced himself he is such a genius that it would work. That's what an over inflated ego is

NIMAN

Pep found out again.

He's lucky he had that Barca team at the time he did, otherwise he wouldn't be held out as some sort of tactical genius in this competition.

Winning leagues is grand, when being handed top clubs and endless money, but he can't seem to get his teams over the line in the CL.

He can't be constantly getting outwitted and outthought by inferior managers, so perhaps he ain't as great as he's made out to be?

CSF

NIMAN wrote: »

Pep found out again.

He's lucky he had that Barca team at the time he did, otherwise he wouldn't be held out as some sort of tactical genius in this competition.

Winning leagues is grand, when being handed top clubs and endless money, but he can't seem to get his teams over the line in the CL.

He can't be constantly getting outwitted and outthought by inferior managers, so perhaps he ain't as great as he's made out to be?

The thing is though, the best managers have been getting ‘found out’ by other good managers in the CL for as long as I can remember. It is ridiculously competitive and the margins in any knockout competition are ultra fine. League formats are obviously a better metric of establishing who the better football teams are, but it’s not hard to see why we love the knockout format for the excitement of it all where anything can happen.

breezy1985

CSF wrote: »

The thing is though, the best managers have been getting ‘found out’ by other good managers in the CL for as long as I can remember. It is ridiculously competitive and the margins in any knockout competition are ultra fine. League formats are obviously a better metric of establishing who the better football teams are, but it’s not hard to see why we love the knockout format for the excitement of it all where anything can happen.

There is a difference between a manager who loses to another and one who messes up his own tactics.

I am a big Ancelotti fan and yes he lost sometimes with Milan including famously to Liverpool and Depot when he really should have won but I never felt he was "found out" or messed up in the was Pep has done a number of times now

fyfe79

The weird thing about Chelsea is that they've won it twice in seasons in which they've been pretty average. The Jose side of the mid-90's was a truly scary prospect. As a LFC fan, the semi-final against them in 2005 felt like a David vs Goliath, they were a truly formidable force and the 180 minutes against them felt as long and nerve-racking as anything I've experienced being a Liverpool supporter. Jose never won a CL for them, which seems bizarre to me as I'd consider that team to be one of the best ever English club sides. Yet, they've won it twice now, with DiMatteo and Tuchel, while not being truly "special", ironically.

gimli2112

brilliant post fyfe for all the guff about City , Utd or the "Invincibles" they truly was never a team like Chelsea 2005. Roman had just come from raping Russia and had more money than God.
Mourinho was given all that money and he used it well
That semi final god
I've posted this several times but for that last seven minutes I was in my bath in the dark rocking from side to side

good prep work for the final now I think of it

rob316

Losing is fine, it's a game of fine margins but not actually turning up in the sense I'm still not sure city got off the bus is a big black mark against him and reinforces my opinion he is overrated.

plibige

I'm as conflicted as anyone with Pep. I rate him, but I don't know how much.

On the one hand he took a disfunctional Barcelona team, made tough decisions and made them invincible.

On another hand, he's had every resource required and still over thinks it and fails. Bayern and City should have won the champions league under him.

I still think he'll do it with City. But tbh I'm not sure I'd call him a great at this stage. I genuinely think he tries to do things no one else would in the hope the work out and he can say he is the smartest man in the room

bucketybuck

breezy1985 wrote: »

and yes he lost sometimes with Milan including famously to Liverpool and Depot when he really should have won

Home depot or Away depot?

yourdeadwright

Watching Sky sport this morning & wow they really do go over board,
Talking about Ballon Dor for Kante eh ye ok ,

This is the same Chelsea team that limped to 4th & got beat quite comfortably by Leicester in the cup final

There a decent side but nothing more ,

Garzorico

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Watching Sky sport this morning & wow they really do go over board,
Talking about Ballon Dor for Kante eh ye ok ,

This is the same Chelsea team that limped to 4th & got beat quite comfortably by Leicester in the cup final

There a decent side but nothing more ,

They are the best team in Europe.

Pottering around yesterday listening to pre CL Final podcasts.

Interesting to hear some of them nail it, saying City should win unless Pep had one of his famous "huh, what did he just do" moments. As I can't stand City because it's just a PR project for a genocidal regime, I never knew this is a well known failing.

Hilarious to see how well he followed the script.

yourdeadwright

Garzorico wrote: »

They are the best team in Europe.

They won the European cup & fair play to them


There a good decent side strong defensively but poor attacking ,

yourdeadwright

Deleted User wrote: »

Pottering around yesterday listening to pre CL Final podcasts.

Interesting to hear some of them nail it, saying City should win unless Pep had one of his famous "huh, what did he just do" moments. As I can't stand City because it's just a PR project for a genocidal regime, I never knew this is a well known failing.

Hilarious to see how well he followed the script.

Would I be right in saying its the first time this season neither of Fernandhio or Rodri played ?
I think at least one of them has started every game ,

I only watched it yesterday not knowing who had won.

Being honest it felt from very early that it just wasnt going to be Citys night, and that amplified when they went behind.

Even though the story was already written as I watched it, I never felt City would score.

The Foden block summed the night up, if the ball wasnt blocked it was a goal, but alas it was one of those nights.

jmayo

gimli2112 wrote: »

I don't understand the hate for Pep. He's a fantastic manager and comes across as someone with a deep passion, almost fanatical love for the game. He also seems genuine and forthright when he loses. He didn't win a one off final and it's easy to question his tactics,which granted seemed wrong but the players simply didn't perform and Chelsea (who by the way are one of the most powerful teams in world football) played well. It was a great game for genuine neutrals, I imagine.

Anyone who thinks he hasn't improved City are simply wrong, it's not even an opinion, you're just wrong. Arguably the greatest manager of all time only one 2 of these despite being in charge of the strongest side in UK football for the guts of 30 years. A mixture of bad luck, bad rules and just it's hard to win. Ancelotti 0-3 up against a poor Liverpool side in 2005 with a decent Milan team didn't win it, didn't make him a bad manager.
ok that last point was just to bring up 2005 again.

City are going to be a juggernaut for years. Personally I'll be quite happy when he leaves them.

Ahh FFS Milan in 2005 didn't lose because the manager set them up all wrong.
They lost because the players got complacent.
They were supposedly celebrating at half time.


The reason for the so called hate for Pep is we are bombarded with shyte about how brilliant he is and how he has revolutionised football.
It's a myth he has been dining out on for years.

We had one poster around here who thought he was the next thing to God and some dude called Anderson.

And some of us just looked at the resources he had at his disposal whilst he was doing all this revolutionising.

He has dominated leagues where funnily enough he has the best resources in comparison to almost all competitors.

And then he goes into European competitions and time and again when it gets serious he has a mind fook and does something really stupid.

NIMAN wrote: »

Pep found out again.

He's lucky he had that Barca team at the time he did, otherwise he wouldn't be held out as some sort of tactical genius in this competition.

Winning leagues is grand, when being handed top clubs and endless money, but he can't seem to get his teams over the line in the CL.

He can't be constantly getting outwitted and outthought by inferior managers, so perhaps he ain't as great as he's made out to be?

100% his managerial career.

Chelsea spent a fortune and Lampard was at sea even with all the resources.
Tuchel came in and suddenly they weren't leaking goals, were hard to beat and winning.
They got to two cup finals and won one.
Yes they still have problems with strikers not able to score, but he is heading in right direction.


City were poor at start, but after the cheque book came out once again and they brought in a 68million centre back they improved.

So looking at the season who is the better manager, Tuchel or Pep?

Liam O

jmayo wrote: »

So looking at the season who is the better manager, Tuchel or Pep?

Pep.

What happened with PSG this season would never happen under his watch.

gimli2112

gilberto_eire wrote: »

The Foden block summed the night up, if the ball wasnt blocked it was a goal, but alas it was one of those nights.

Pivotal moment alright, that goes in and we're all talking about what a tactical genius Pep is, greatest manager of all time.

Father Hernandez

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Watching Sky sport this morning & wow they really do go over board,
Talking about Ballon Dor for Kante eh ye ok ,

This is the same Chelsea team that limped to 4th & got beat quite comfortably by Leicester in the cup final

There a decent side but nothing more ,

If France win or go far in the Euros, he'll be favourite.

Tuchel joined Chelsea late Jan and Kante has only played in 2 games where Chelsea have lost. One of the main reasons Chelsea went from 9th to 4th, Kante was underappreciated by Lampard IMO.

MOTM performances in big games, 2 semi finals and the final. He's easily in the conversation.

yourdeadwright

Father Hernandez wrote: »

If France win or go far in the Euros, he'll be favourite.

Tuchel joined Chelsea late Jan and Kante has only played in 2 games where Chelsea have lost. One of the main reasons Chelsea went from 9th to 4th, Kante was underappreciated by Lampard IMO.

MOTM performances in big games, 2 semi finals and the final. He's easily in the conversation.

I honestly don't think he has a chance,
If France win it Mbappe will likely walk away with it

Fitz*

Lewandoski is due a Ballon d'Or after his last 2 seasons. 55 goals in 47 games + 48 goals in 40 games. Travesty that they cancelled last years award when he was on course to win it. He probably deserves it for this season too. A big factor in Bayern being knocked out of the CL was his unavailability.

A bit of a butterfly effect but if he was fit for the quarter finals, then there could be have been a different CL champion and Kante wouldn't be even mentioned in the running for a Ballon d'Or.

when is the last time the the CL final was a good one?

At least 80% of them in the last 15 years or so they have been poor spectacles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_Cup_and_UEFA_Champions_League_finals

Muahahaha

Deleted User wrote: »

Pottering around yesterday listening to pre CL Final podcasts.

Interesting to hear some of them nail it, saying City should win unless Pep had one of his famous "huh, what did he just do" moments. As I can't stand City because it's just a PR project for a genocidal regime, I never knew this is a well known failing.

Hilarious to see how well he followed the script.

I mainly knew it was a failing of his from his three games against Liverpool in the second half of the 2017/18 season. In the PL game (Jan 2018) he changed up his normal tactics and lost 4-3. Then three months later in April 2018 they faced each other in the CL quarter finals and Pep went and did it again, this time losing 3-0 and Anfield and then losing 2-1 at the Eithiad. This was all set against Man Citys 100 point season where they were blowing every team away but when he faced Liverpool he always did something different that was unexpected and they ended up getting beaten. He also did the same in a 3-1 PL loss to Liverpool in November 2019, that was the game where he was losing the plot on the sideline and literally shouting at clouds about an offside decision.

I remember there was a clip knocking about from that Man City documentary on Netflix and it showed Pep and Arteta in the dressing room in a deep discussion about Liverpool. The conversation was remarkable in that Pep was talking about how to beat Liverpool but he was visibly stressed and basically ranting and raving asking Arteta how it could be done. At one point he said something along the lines that he was 'afraid of them, Liverpool scare me'. What stood out to me was just how wound up he was thinking about it, it was like his head was about to explode. And then you set that against the line ups he actually put out against Liverpool where he changed up his usual tactics to try nullify them but it back fired time and time again. So that for me is how he overthinks things, he streeses the sh1t out of himself trying to figure out how to stop the other team playing but in doing so he is liable to make a tactical change to his own team that will actually weaken it.

breezy1985

Father Hernandez wrote: »

If France win or go far in the Euros, he'll be favourite.

Tuchel joined Chelsea late Jan and Kante has only played in 2 games where Chelsea have lost. One of the main reasons Chelsea went from 9th to 4th, Kante was underappreciated by Lampard IMO.

MOTM performances in big games, 2 semi finals and the final. He's easily in the conversation.

Its a forwards trophy. It takes a miracle for anyone who isnt a forward or very attacking midfielder and there is a long list of players way better and who had even better seasons than Kanye who got nowhere near it. I really can't stand the Balloon dOr to be honest especially after the Messi/Ronaldo years

breezy1985

glasso wrote: »

when is the last time the the CL final was a good one?

At least 80% of them in the last 15 years or so they have been poor spectacles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_Cup_and_UEFA_Champions_League_finals

That's just finals it's not just a CL thing

happyoutscan

gimli2112 wrote: »

Pivotal moment alright, that goes in and we're all talking about what a tactical genius Pep is, greatest manager of all time.

Considering what was at stake, it was one of the best blocks I've seen. Simply class.

gimli2112

happyoutscan wrote: »

Considering what was at stake, it was one of the best blocks I've seen. Simply class.

up there with Henchoz's handball clearance off the line in the 2001 cup final

yeah it was unreal, it kind of reminds me of Dudek's save from Schevchenko (I'm reminiscing all the golden oldies today) but looking back on it it was the kind of thing that makes you say they were always going to win it after that.

breezy1985

gimli2112 wrote: »

up there with Henchoz's handball clearance off the line in the 2001 cup final

yeah it was unreal, it kind of reminds me of Dudek's save from Schevchenko (I'm reminiscing all the golden oldies today) but looking back on it it was the kind of thing that makes you say they were always going to win it after that.

Suarez playing fly keeper was another great goalkeeping moment

GavRedKing

glasso wrote: »

when is the last time the the CL final was a good one?

At least 80% of them in the last 15 years or so they have been poor spectacles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_Cup_and_UEFA_Champions_League_finals

Every final is great as long as you're on the right side of the result.

adaminho

Live score to show all 137 games on their app for the next 3 years for all Irish users.
https://www.livescore.com/en/news/livescore-to-stream-every-champions-league-game-in-ireland-for-free-2021052614281953595/

rob316

adaminho wrote: »

Live score to show all 137 games on their app for the next 3 years for all Irish users.
https://www.livescore.com/en/news/livescore-to-stream-every-champions-league-game-in-ireland-for-free-2021052614281953595/

That's a big move from LiveScore, I had read Virgin lost out but RTE were retaining the Tuesday night game.

Father Hernandez

adaminho wrote: »

Live score to show all 137 games on their app for the next 3 years for all Irish users.
https://www.livescore.com/en/news/livescore-to-stream-every-champions-league-game-in-ireland-for-free-2021052614281953595/

I would've thought companies realised the failings of Eleven Sports that you need a TV channel to broadcast live sport.

Any idea who is financing it or their revenue model? Don't fancy watching Champions League on an app for every game.

TitianGerm

It'd be great if they built a dedicated TV app but casting will do the job.

Cookiemunster

Father Hernandez wrote: »

I would've thought companies realised the failings of Eleven Sports that you need a TV channel to broadcast live sport.

Any idea who is financing it or their revenue model? Don't fancy watching Champions League on an app for every game.

It's in their press release that they will have a cast option so you'll be able to watch it on a TV.

I can't imagine that the rights for Ireland are that expensive. Especially when BTs coverage isn't geoblocked. They were also broadcasting La Liga games on their app last season.

NIMAN

Thats good news about LiveScore.

rob316

Cookiemunster wrote: »

It's in their press release that they will have a cast option so you'll be able to watch it on a TV.

I can't imagine that the rights for Ireland are that expensive. Especially when BTs coverage isn't geoblocked. They were also broadcasting La Liga games on their app last season.

I think BT paid about 400m a year so I couldn't see the irish rights been alot give the population and demand.

Hammer Archer

adaminho wrote: »

Live score to show all 137 games on their app for the next 3 years for all Irish users.
https://www.livescore.com/en/news/livescore-to-stream-every-champions-league-game-in-ireland-for-free-2021052614281953595/

Delighted with this. They already show a lot of Italian, Portuguese and Dutch league games (among others) and the streams have always been very good quality.

Vicxas

Livescores feeds have already been really good. Delighted that they nabbed the CL rights, and for free!

klose

TV tights for football have taken a bit of a turn lately, in the Ronaldo Messi years of la Liga sky would bombard you with adverts for la liga games, then it was a big deal when the lost out on the rights to it. Now its on a free to air channel. Now you will also be able to watch every champions league game on a free app, mad.

Fitz*

Father Hernandez wrote: »

I would've thought companies realised the failings of Eleven Sports that you need a TV channel to broadcast live sport.

Any idea who is financing it or their revenue model? Don't fancy watching Champions League on an app for every game.

Yeah I have similar qualms.

There is just something I don't like about streaming games that puts me off of it, unless I really have to, because of the 30 second delay and then worries about buffering. I still like the traditional TV method as I can rely on the picture quality and reliability. Also the ability to rewind / pause etc can be handy sometimes like at HT or in the build up and you can skip the ads.

Now to be fair, Now TV have upped their game massively in the last year and I had BT through that for a while. Hopefully LiveScore have a similar app, quality and reliability.

NIMAN

Vicxas wrote: »

Livescores feeds have already been really good. Delighted that they nabbed the CL rights, and for free!

I'd assume we will be bombarded with adverts on their app during the games.

There is no way they are paying for it, and giving it to us for free, without some payback.

Fitz*

NIMAN wrote: »

I'd assume we will be bombarded with adverts on their app during the games.

There is no way they are paying for it, and giving it to us for free, without some payback.

AFAIK, LiveScore are owned by a betting company. So maybe there will be a tie-in there.

theoneeyedman

An interesting development in Irish sports rights really, what with Eir pulling out of Eir Sport completely.

Personally, I don't like casting, I find it temperamental and glitchy, depending on the app mostly, so much will depend on how well the app is developed.

I don't like the term 'Free to Air' being used here either, as it's not FTA by the conventional understanding, I'm guessing there will be all sorts of registration and logging in requires to access.... It may be 'free' but that's not FTA really. If there is a gambling element to the site, it will probably be (officially) restricted to over 18s too.

I'm less worried about being bombarded with ads, in a typical 2 or 2. 5 hour broadcast on RTE or Virgin, you have to sit through a lot of ads too, so something has to pay for it. I guess the Motto on all these things is 'if you're not the customer, you're the product ' - you watching the Ads for betting sites, takeaways and beer is the price you'll have to pay.

WWhat do they do for ccommentary I wonder, do they use a generic UEFA feed or something like the epl hhas?

breezy1985

Fitz* wrote: »

Yeah I have similar qualms.

There is just something I don't like about streaming games that puts me off of it, unless I really have to, because of the 30 second delay and then worries about buffering. I still like the traditional TV method as I can rely on the picture quality and reliability. Also the ability to rewind / pause etc can be handy sometimes like at HT or in the build up and you can skip the ads.

Now to be fair, Now TV have upped their game massively in the last year and I had BT through that for a while. Hopefully LiveScore have a similar app, quality and reliability.

This is a great deal though for anyone like myself who would rather watch the top game of the day over Liverpool v Quarabag in a tie that Liverpool are already winning 5-0 on agg. I much prefer watching it on TV too but it's understandably heavily aimed at PL fans