Desperately need help to get comfortable on the bike

I know your bike is a 2014 one so I'm not sure if the sizing is the same as a more current Trek but 5'10 would be the very upper end before going to a 58. Trek seem odd for sizing in that I'd normally fall in around 50-52 in other brands but Trek would have me on a 54.

Eamonnator

D13exile wrote: »

It's the same guy alright but he has done his best for me and loaned me this new saddle. Perhaps my bike is wrong for me and he's too polite to say that out straight as a new bike is an expensive option to cure a numb ass!! I was considering a change of tyre too as my old Conti 4000's are due for retirement. They're 700x25 (which I've heard are closer to 23) while the newer 5000 are truer to size.

In my experience, Continental Grand Prix 4000s 700X25 tyre typically measure about 27mm. From memory, on a previous thread, this has been the experience of most other users.

MojoMaker

Yep, GP4Ks size up definitely, not a true 25mm.

What model Trek out of interest?

it's possible that the 54 felt cramped because the seatpost and stem were not the correct length for you. Generally it's much easier to get on with a smaller frame than a larger frame as there are ways to lengthen out the fit more easily than shortening the fit on a frame that's too big.

A pic would help a lot, if the steerer hasn't been cut to match you may well be able to fire in some spacers to raise it all up a little. Also you can flip the stem to a higher positive angle - although it can look wrong to some - at least to test some additional variables and give you some new information.

Your head must be wrecked on the bike these days - to say nothing of the poor ar$e!

D13exile

MojoMaker wrote: »

Yep, GP4Ks size up definitely, not a true 25mm.

What model Trek out of interest?

it's possible that the 54 felt cramped because the seatpost and stem were not the correct length for you. Generally it's much easier to get on with a smaller frame than a larger frame as there are ways to lengthen out the fit more easily than shortening the fit on a frame that's too big.

A pic would help a lot, if the steerer hasn't been cut to match you may well be able to fire in some spacers to raise it all up a little. Also you can flip the stem to a higher positive angle - although it can look wrong to some - at least to test some additional variables and give you some new information.

Your head must be wrecked on the bike these days - to say nothing of the poor ar$e!

The bike is a Trek Domane. The fitter did flip the stem when I had my first fit back in 2014. Its stay flipped but he lowered it by one spacer last week. So I think I'm actually "higher" than most cyclists due to the flipped stem but I still feel so "awkward" when I try to use the drops as in I feel too low down. I'll post up a pic of the bike in a minute

D13exile

Domane

D13exile

Seat

hesker

I would be levelling that saddle and moving the bars to the highest position.

dahat

Same advice here, level the saddle & raise the bars then give it a few days to settle in.

Epitaph

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I know your bike is a 2014 one so I'm not sure if the sizing is the same as a more current Trek but 5'10 would be the very upper end before going to a 58. Trek seem odd for sizing in that I'd normally fall in around 50-52 in other brands but Trek would have me on a 54.

OP, I would agree with this, my 2013 Crossrip is a 54 but I'm typically 52 on newer road bikes. I don't know how someone 5'10 could fit on a 54 Trek. Could you borrow larger frame bike 56/58 off a mate to try for a ride or two?

ED E

You can't use the drops on that?

I think you need to try Yoga. One would understand if it were slammed af.

hesker

Epitaph wrote: »

OP, I would agree with this, my 2013 Crossrip is a 54 but I'm typically 52 on newer road bikes. I don't know how someone 5'10 could fit on a 54 Trek. Could you borrow larger frame bike 56/58 off a mate to try for a ride or two?

Agree with this too. And make sure the bars are good and high relative to the saddle.

I’d bet most of your problems are due to the fact that your weight is not really being supported by your sit bones.

Enduro

Have you tried riding a non-road bike, like a hybrid, or a MTB (Non XC racer) or even a city bike? If you can comfortably cycle on a more leisure style bike then at least you would know that you can still cycle with comfort. If you can't, then I don't think any amount of tinkering with your road bike is likely to help, by the sound of it. All IMHO.

D13exile

My previous configuration had the bars higher and the saddle level. The last fit a week ago had him lower the bars, raise and tilt the saddle. From what I know, this pushed my weight forward onto my hands and less on my sit bones? The result was even more numb hands, crushed man bits and still pain in the ass.

The bike is a 56cm frame, not a 54.

I am pretty flexible for my age, can touch my toes and I regularly use foam rollers to keep my muscles loose and supple. I have a mountain bike that I use when cycling with the kids and I have no issues on that whatsoever.

I have to say that my confidence in this guy is waning fast from what I’m hearing on here. It’s a fair trek for me to get down to his place for another refit and if all he’s going to do is swap this saddle for yet another one (without addressing the set up issues), I’m wasting my time. I haven’t cycled since last Sunday which is highly unusual for me and I’m considering going to another bike fitter. I know you’d advise that I do some adjustments myself but I’m starting to feel my whole set up on this bike has been wrong from the start (I’ve always had numb hands and a sore ass) and no amount of minor tinkering is going to get it right. Plus I need to find a good saddle first and foremost. I’m getting more confused by the day😱😱😱😱😱😱😱

MojoMaker

The point re: sit bones is that if they are not taking the weight, then another part (and incorrect part) of your anatomy is. If your weight is being shifted off your sit bones - that's fundamentally wrong.

Luxman

MojoMaker wrote: »

The point re: sit bones is that if they are not taking the weight, then another part (and incorrect part) of your anatomy is. If your weight is being shifted off your sit bones - that's fundamentally wrong.

What I said in post #4. Delighted Im not deluded.

I think your fitter has run out of options, cut your losses and go elsewhere.

D13exile

I had a return visit to my fitter after the last saddle nearly ruined me forever. He changed it to a similar Selle Italia saddle to my old Selle Italia, ie almost identical but slightly narrower at the front and he raised the bars back up one spacer.

So I went out on a 40km ride wearing my new Assos €170 bibs so I could give this my best shot at being comfy. Result.....well the sit bone area was improved but I felt awful pressure on the man bits. Got home and I raised the bars back to the top with all spacers underneath. Couple of days later I went out for a 60km ride and result was sit bone area feels better but I think I’ve damaged the man bits as I felt a dull ache in the right testicle for a few days after. That has never happened before!

Called the fitter and he suggested I move the seat forward a few mms and angle it ever so slightly downwards. I’m going to try that but it’s grasping at straws at this point. Sore ass has been replaced by bruised balls!

gaffmaster

Jaypurs, it sounds like you're having some terrible luck.

Might be best off seeing a doctor about this.

magicbastarder

can you take a photo of the bike with a spirit level on the seat?

CramCycle

D13exile wrote: »

Called the fitter and he suggested I move the seat forward a few mms and angle it ever so slightly downwards. I’m going to try that but it’s grasping at straws at this point. Sore ass has been replaced by bruised balls!

This sounds sensible, well the moving the seat forward. I am always dubious about tilting downwards unless your a TTer, I think on long spins it could add more issues to your neck/shoulders.

It more and more sounds like your frame is simply slightly too big considering everything that is pulling the bars and saddle together is alleviating issues. Man bit issues also indicate that your leaning over to much, something that moving the saddle forward and the bars up or back should help further with, but again, give it a few days.

dave_o_brien

If you have a bruised testicle or persistent pain after cycling in a testicle, I'd recommend not getting back on the bike for long enough that the pain is completely gone and would consider seeing a doctor.

Tony04

One other thing does the saddle have a cutout?

Cee-Jay-Cee

I think you need to get yourself a short nose saddle and forget about standard length saddles as they clearly don't work for you.

I used a Prologo Kappa PAS (cut out) on both my road bikes for years without issue but 2 or 3 years ago I started getting numb nuts after an hour or so in the saddle and thought that it was just the saddles had become worn and the padding compressed and no longer doing its job so bought a new one but the problem persisted and even got worse so I researched new saddles and settled on the Prologo Dimension 143 saddle. Since buying it almost 2 years ago I have never had one instance of numbness or pain since and now have the same saddle on my 3 road bikes and also on my mountain bike. Its firmer than the Kappa and you can feel your sit bones on the saddle but the shorter nose means no numbness/pain regardless of how long a cycle i'm on. I'd recommend giving one of them a go.

D13exile

Saddle is level

D13exile

Cut out. This saddle is very similar to my old saddle dimensions wise and with a cut out. Never had sore balls on the old one though

gaffmaster

After you've seen a doctor/gotten completely better, get a different bike fitter.

As CramCycle said, it seems like excessive reach could be a factor, but none of us can see you on the bike.

In terms of saddles, I find the Bontrager Aeolus great - but everyone is different. Also check out ISM saddles for ultimate cut-out, ball dangling freedom

D13exile

I've looked at Wiggle and Chain Reaction for their saddles but the variety of saddles on there is mind boggling. I simply don't have the funds to buy multiple saddles to try out but I also can't go on as I am. Its taken two days for the nether regions to feel normal. Jeez, I finally get a lessening of the pain in the ass only for it to move to the ball sack!.

My gut is now telling me to try another fitter. I think the guy I've been using has run out of ideas. Standing back and being honest with myself, I have never ever been comfortable on the bike, since my first bike fit in 2014. While I'm open to correction, I'm five foot ten and I don't think the bike, a 56cm frame Trek Domane is too big for me. However I've suffered with sore ass, neck strain and a left hand that goes insanely and painfully numb on every ride, no matter how many times I change hand position. Obviously there is something seriously wrong with my own particular set up. Thousands of guys like me cycle without being in such discomfort on every ride. I've become very fit and strong judging by the speeds I can manage but its all for nothing if instead of enjoying the ride, it's a masochistic chore.

Sorry for the rant but the frustration is boiling over. I've found another bike fitter who I've been speaking too and while he can't guarantee he'll make me pain free, he is using the Retul method that appears to give results. I think I'll give him a shot and see if he can resolve things for me. No point going back to the guy I've been using as 5 bike fits with him and I'm still the same, if not worse.

Finally thanks for the advice, and recommendations to date. Good to get views from fellow cyclists. If you guys can have a relatively pain free cycling experience, it gives me hope that I can too.

Luxman

Is this your first and only bike? I may have missed it in previous posts but being 5'10" on a 56 sounds way too big for you. I am 5'9" and my first Trek was a 54 and was too big, I moved to a Felt 51cm and now have a 52cm Spesh, all of which fit me perfectly. If you have a second bike that you are comfortable then do a comparison on geometrygeeks website.

Tony04

D13exile wrote: »

I've looked at Wiggle and Chain Reaction for their saddles but the variety of saddles on there is mind boggling. I simply don't have the funds to buy multiple saddles to try out but I also can't go on as I am. Its taken two days for the nether regions to feel normal. Jeez, I finally get a lessening of the pain in the ass only for it to move to the ball sack!.

Pro saddles, they have a 30 day return policy if you dont like the saddle. Theres acctually only really 4 styles of road saddle but a lot of different brands. Firstly youd have stubby nose saddles for tts/crit racing suited for the low position. Then youd have your 'everyday' saddles if you like which you pick depending on your flexibility so youd have a very flexible option an average option and a not very flexible option.

[

D13exile wrote: »

My gut is now telling me to try another fitter. I think the guy I've been using has run out of ideas. Standing back and being honest with myself, I have never ever been comfortable on the bike, since my first bike fit in 2014. While I'm open to correction, I'm five foot ten and I don't think the bike, a 56cm frame Trek Domane is too big for me. However I've suffered with sore ass, neck strain and a left hand that goes insanely and painfully numb on every ride, no matter how many times I change hand position. Obviously there is something seriously wrong with my own particular set up. Thousands of guys like me cycle without being in such discomfort on every ride. I've become very fit and strong judging by the speeds I can manage but its all for nothing if instead of enjoying the ride, it's a masochistic chore.

If your 5 ft 10 youre on the small end for a 56cm bike, also considering the domane is an endurance bike where you usally size down, im 5 11 and my main bike is 56cm (big so baiscally 57) which puts me in a very aggressive position. My reckoning is your very stretched on your bike which is putting pressure on your sit bones / crotch. What is your stem length? You might consider putting on a shorter stem?

magicbastarder

trek do seem to state 56cm for the 5'9" to 5'11" range.

i'm less than 3" shorter and i ride a 52cm frame which i consider ideal (albeit, it's a genesis and i've heard a few comments that they're slightly large for the stated size).

D13exile

From looking on the web, a shorter stem might be part of the solution if this bike is too big for me. When I bought it in Wheelworx, they had a 54cm Domane in stock but that felt cramped when I test rode it. They let me try a 56cm Madone (I know it's a different frame and set up), but that felt better. But tbh, I knew next to nothing about bikes back then. Maybe I have been on the wrong size frame all this time. The Retul system will assess me on their adjustable bike and maybe I will be told that I am on the wrong size frame!. Something my fitter never mentioned!!!

On the bright side, if it is the wrong frame size for me, a shorter stem might help in the interim while I save up to get a new bike. I've wanted to upgrade for a while now but until I can solve the aches and pains, I didn't want to shell out three or four grand on a new bike.

Is that light at the end of the tunnel???

Ok I'm off to book a new bike fit with Retul and see what happens. I'll update next week.

I'd ask the fitter straight up if they think the bike size is an issue. No point beating about the bush with it.

D13exile

Just checked Trek's site there as they have a Frame fitting guide. Based on my measurements, Trek recommends a 56cm frame, which is what I have. Anyways, I'll see what the bike fitter says next week.

mp31

Sorry to hear your saddle issues ... but ave speed of 33kph is :eek: for a mere mortal like me doing 20 kph

Anyway, Cycle Superstore in Tallaght used to have test saddles (bright yellow with the word TEST in big letters on them) that you buy for a small amount e.g. 50 euro and try out for a week. If you don't like it you can return it get a refund and try another and so on. This was a few years ago so you may want to give them a call to check.

Cee-Jay-Cee

D13exile wrote: »

From looking on the web, a shorter stem might be part of the solution if this bike is too big for me. When I bought it in Wheelworx, they had a 54cm Domane in stock but that felt cramped when I test rode it. They let me try a 56cm Madone (I know it's a different frame and set up), but that felt better. But tbh, I knew next to nothing about bikes back then. Maybe I have been on the wrong size frame all this time. The Retul system will assess me on their adjustable bike and maybe I will be told that I am on the wrong size frame!. Something my fitter never mentioned!!!

On the bright side, if it is the wrong frame size for me, a shorter stem might help in the interim while I save up to get a new bike. I've wanted to upgrade for a while now but until I can solve the aches and pains, I didn't want to shell out three or four grand on a new bike.

Is that light at the end of the tunnel???

Ok I'm off to book a new bike fit with Retul and see what happens. I'll update next week.

It may be suitable for your height but are you using your inner leg measurement or your overall height?

I’m not dissing bike fitters but the majority of people simply set up their bikes to what suits them and manage fine. I was fitted in 2013 but it was mental the changes he made, my saddle was raised 5cm and stem flipped. I hated it but tried it for almost a month but couldn’t get comfortable to reverted to my own settings and have been comfortable since.

Use some of the online fitting guides and try your own settings. If you feel the saddle is too high regardless of what the guides state then lower it and try again.

Bike fits do not work for everyone. They certainly didn’t for me and very obviously you too. You have nothing to lose by changing saddle height, fore/aft, handlebar height etc and experimenting till you find something that works for you.

magicbastarder

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

my saddle was raised 5cm

in one go? i've always heard the advice that you should never raise or lower your saddle by more than 5 or 10mm at a time.

D13exile

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

It may be suitable for your height but are you using your inner leg measurement or your overall height?

I’m not dissing bike fitters but the majority of people simply set up their bikes to what suits them and manage fine. I was fitted in 2013 but it was mental the changes he made, my saddle was raised 5cm and stem flipped. I hated it but tried it for almost a month but couldn’t get comfortable to reverted to my own settings and have been comfortable since.

Use some of the online fitting guides and try your own settings. If you feel the saddle is too high regardless of what the guides state then lower it and try again.

Bike fits do not work for everyone. They certainly didn’t for me and very obviously you too. You have nothing to lose by changing saddle height, fore/aft, handlebar height etc and experimenting till you find something that works for you.

Inner leg measurement of 32inches. Trek’s website says that puts me on a 56cm frame. However as you said, my bike fits just haven’t worked for me. My biggest problem with tinkering myself is my utter lack of patience. If I changed something and it made me worse, I’d quickly get a head of steam up and well let’s just say, I’d fear for the bike’s safety!

I know I should change one thing at a time in small increments but change what? Handlebar height or reach? Unflip my stem? Seat up or down, back or forth? So many combinations and I could end up worse off. I’m 51 and while I’m in good condition, I’d say I’m more prone to injuries as I’m not as flexible or adaptable as someone in their 20’s or 30’s.

jethrothe2nd

I'm just over 5 foot 9 with a 32 inch inner leg and I'm on a 54cm Emonda. I find it comfortable and aside from some minor pins and needles in my hands on long cycles I've never experienced anything like you are finding.



I do wonder, regardless of what Treks website says whether you might be better off with a 54cm and put a a longer stem on if you feel cramped?

joey100

If your rotate the bars back towards you by loosening the stem face plate it will shorten the reach to the hoods, but not to the bar at the stem. Costs nothing and will give you an idea of if the reach is too long. If it feels better then you could look at stem length. If it's a trek and it's using Bontrager bars they tend to have a very long reach too. Lot of bars around 75mm reach (deda, zipp), some Bontrager bars are up to 105mm reach so it might not be the stem that needs to be changed at all.

Edited to ask, do you have a model on the bars on your bike? Do you know what width they are?

D13exile

joey100 wrote: »

If your rotate the bars back towards you by loosening the stem face plate it will shorten the reach to the hoods, but not to the bar at the stem. Costs nothing and will give you an idea of if the reach is too long. If it feels better then you could look at stem length. If it's a trek and it's using Bontrager bars they tend to have a very long reach too. Lot of bars around 75mm reach (deda, zipp), some Bontrager bars are up to 105mm reach so it might not be the stem that needs to be changed at all.

Edited to ask, do you have a model on the bars on your bike? Do you know what width they are?

Here’s a photo of my bars with the details stamped on the

joey100

Slightly long reach at 85mm, you can definitely get shorter reach bars. But I'd try tilting the hoods back to you a little. Wouldn't be a long term solution but will let you see what a shorter reach is like without having to spend money.

Cee-Jay-Cee

D13exile wrote: »

Inner leg measurement of 32inches. Trek’s website says that puts me on a 56cm frame. However as you said, my bike fits just haven’t worked for me. My biggest problem with tinkering myself is my utter lack of patience. If I changed something and it made me worse, I’d quickly get a head of steam up and well let’s just say, I’d fear for the bike’s safety!

I know I should change one thing at a time in small increments but change what? Handlebar height or reach? Unflip my stem? Seat up or down, back or forth? So many combinations and I could end up worse off. I’m 51 and while I’m in good condition, I’d say I’m more prone to injuries as I’m not as flexible or adaptable as someone in their 20’s or 30’s.

You have quite long legs for your height so your saddle is possibly quite high and therefore your reaching further too. I’m 181cm (5’11” ) with 84cm inner leg. I have my saddle almost 5cm lower than what the guides suggest but I’m comfortable and can pedal along at 27-30kmph on solo rides and 30-33 on group rides. I would take comfort over speed any day.

If I were you I would fit a shorter stem (90mm) and drop your saddle 1cm and try that for a few weeks to see how you get on.

However if you truely believe that the saddle is the problem I will lend you a Prologo Dimension for a few weeks to see how you get on with it. If it helps then you can buy it off me if you wish or send it back and buy your own. PM me if want

D13exile

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

You have quite long legs for your height so your saddle is possibly quite high and therefore your reaching further too. I’m 181cm (5’11” ) with 84cm inner leg. I have my saddle almost 5cm lower than what the guides suggest but I’m comfortable and can pedal along at 27-30kmph on solo rides and 30-33 on group rides. I would take comfort over speed any day.

If I were you I would fit a shorter stem (90mm) and drop your saddle 1cm and try that for a few weeks to see how you get on.

However if you truely believe that the saddle is the problem I will lend you a Prologo Dimension for a few weeks to see how you get on with it. If it helps then you can buy it off me if you wish or send it back and buy your own. PM me if want

Thanks mate. At this point I don't know if its the saddle, reach or me that's the problem. I haven't cycled since last Sunday, and I usually get at least 4 spins in each week. The sore balls issue went away after three day's rest and I did move the saddle forward a few mms and tilt it slightly down as my fitter recommended but I haven't been back out on it yet. This guy is well known and he adjusted the bike based on my measurements. How did he get it wrong as I've been back to him 5 times at this point??? (talking to myself here!!).

I checked Wiggle and Chain Reaction for that saddle you recommended. As is usual, there are many models of saddle with that moniker. Which one do you have? My fitter said my sit bones are not wide and a saddle in between 133 and 140mm would fit me.

gaffmaster

Did you mention you had another fit booked with a different fitter? I wouldn't make any kit purchases until after you've had your new fitter's input.

Cee-Jay-Cee

D13exile wrote: »

I checked Wiggle and Chain Reaction for that saddle you recommended. As is usual, there are many models of saddle with that moniker. Which one do you have? My fitter said my sit bones are not wide and a saddle in between 133 and 140mm would fit me.

Yes its the 143mm wide saddle with Tirox rails that I have so shoud be suitable for you.

D13exile

I had a four hour bike re-fit last week with a different fitter and the good news is that my saddle issues have all but gone. He tried 5 saddles before he found one that suited me, a Fizik Argo Tempo short nose saddle. I've done three one hour spins without much discomfort (minor cramp in my left hamstring), which is a major improvement for me. Didn't have to stand up once for ass relief which has never happened before.

He advised that I consider getting new wider handlebars though as my shoulder to shoulder measurement is 44cm while my existing bars are 42cm. He said this may be contributing to my neck and shoulder pain as my arms are reaching in instead of straight ahead when on the drops, hoods etc. He also wants to put a longer stem on the bars to make me lean forward more. Has anyone else gone with wider bars on their bike? I'm sure I'm not the only one with wide shoulders?

As for the new position on the bike, I feel a lot more "powerful" in my pedal stroke and for the first time yesterday, I found myself pulling up on the pedals as well as pushing down on them. He put me into a more aero position on the bike, after moving the bars down two spacers which felt strange as I've been sitting more upright and locking my arms out straight since my first bike fit. I have to concentrate now on not locking out my arms and keeping them bent and relaxed but it's starting to become more natural to me after years of doing it wrong. I also set a new record on my local loop yesterday despite a headwind. Feeling more comfortable, aero and stronger in the new position did it I'd say.

eeeee

Great news. Where did you go for the latest fit? Is it bike fit studio?

I have nothing useful to add!

D13exile

eeeee wrote: »

Great news. Where did you go for the latest fit? Is it bike fit studio?

I have nothing useful to add!

Yes it was. Much more in-depth fit compared to what I'd had before. Looooong session and cycling indoors on a trainer on a hot humid day while wearing a facemask was not fun but after some frustration on my part (when new saddle after saddle didn't work), he put the Fizik Argo Tempo on and hey presto, what discomfort????

magicbastarder

looks like that's a saddle for people with wider sit bones?

what other changes did he make, bar dropping the stem? any changes to saddle height?

CramCycle

First of all, great stuff

D13exile wrote: »

He advised that I consider getting new wider handlebars though as my shoulder to shoulder measurement is 44cm while my existing bars are 42cm. He said this may be contributing to my neck and shoulder pain as my arms are reaching in instead of straight ahead when on the drops, hoods etc. He also wants to put a longer stem on the bars to make me lean forward more. Has anyone else gone with wider bars on their bike? I'm sure I'm not the only one with wide shoulders?

I am possibly a voice alone on this but I have 42cm shoulders and 36cm bars, I personally think it makes jot all difference, it's what you get used too. If this rumour of bike fitters was true, people wouldn't be able to ride track bikes or MTB for long stretches.

I have to concentrate now on not locking out my arms and keeping them bent and relaxed but it's starting to become more natural to me after years of doing it wrong.

100% right here, and this alone is probably the main source of your neck and shoulder pain. Your elbows will now essentially act like shock absorbers. I hadn't realised you had your arms locked out, that alone will make a world of difference to your neck/shoulders.

magicbastarder

yeah, i suspect a difference of 1cm per shoulder is not going to make a huge difference to comfort at all.