New meat plant - Banagher in County Offaly

patsy_mccabe

Don't know what I think of this. It's smells of visas for sale.

Posted earlier on Beef Plan WhatsApp.

https://www.petitions.net/i_the_undersigned_am_supportive_and_would_like_to_see_the_new_meat_plant_at_banagher_in_co_offaly_being_built?u=5875839&utm_source=whatsapp

Say my name

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Don't know what I think of this. It's smells of visas for sale.

Posted earlier on Beef Plan WhatsApp.

https://www.petitions.net/i_the_undersigned_am_supportive_and_would_like_to_see_the_new_meat_plant_at_banagher_in_co_offaly_being_built?u=5875839&utm_source=whatsapp

It's better have the money being spent on something useful.

Currently lots of foreign nationalities just pay the government €450k directly for an Irish passport. At least with the investment scheme that €450 might start an enterprise and create employment and benefit society that way.

Now the ethics of a European country selling passports for hundreds of thousands of Euro is a completely different subject.
I wonder would Michael Collins or Eamon DeValera have approved.
Charlie Haughey got into stick for the same stunt. Nowadays anything goes..

Base price

This article was on Agriland the other day about it.
https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/major-offaly-meat-factory-plan-blocked-by-the-iip-but-who-or-what-is-the-iip/

charolais0153

I really really don't think the Chinese are going to be any more generous. Leave them where they are

ganmo

The skeptic in me is seeing why barry Cowen wanted to be minister for ag now.

Bass Reeves

charolais0153 wrote: »

I really really don't think the Chinese are going to be any more generous. Leave them where they are

While they may or may not be more generous it would have been competition to the big three. As well this processor would have been cutting out the middle man mainly Irish processors so would have more room to pay a slightly higher price.

What really interesting is that to obtain an Irish Passport normally all you have to do is


Enterprise investment: A minimum of €1 million invested in an Irish enterprise for at least three years;
Investment fund: A minimum of €1 million invested in an approved investment fund for at least three years;
Real estate investment trusts (REIT): A minimum investment of €2 million in any Irish REIT that is listed on the Irish Stock Exchange for at least three years;
Endowment: A minimum €500,000 philanthropic donation to a project which is of ‘public benefit’ – the document outlines projects in the arts, sports, health, culture or education.

In this case the company was investing 40 million in a meat plant that could not be extracted easily. With the exception of the last case above all the rest could technically walk away with a profit within three year.

I not too sure if Larry and Co would buy a plant that cost 40 million and allow the investors a profit in 2 or 3 years. The plant would be the need another 200-300 million in working capital to process 600 cattle a day allowing 60 days credit before being paid for them.

patsy_mccabe

Remember too that Covid 19 came from a wet market where live exoitc animals were sold. China allowed the sale of such animals since their famine in the 1970s.
That ban may be coming back again in light of further threats of new viruses.
Food security is high on their agenda.

SouthWesterly

ganmo wrote: »

The skeptic in me is seeing why barry Cowen wanted to be minister for ag now.

It's a good job it's only your bias and has no bearing in reality

Rodney Bathgate

charolais0153 wrote: »

I really really don't think the Chinese are going to be any more generous. Leave them where they are

The Chinese have done enough harm to the country (and the rest of the world).

The last thing we should be encouraging is Chinese investment in Ireland.

Bass Reeves

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

The Chinese have done enough harm to the country (and the rest of the world).

The last thing we should be encouraging is Chinese investment in Ireland.

Usually the saying is ''the devil you know'' however in the Irish beef sector we will risk any devil to compete with the cartel that is there.

I hope this factory gets off the ground and if the Chinese want to build 2-3 more as well all the better. We are getting it in the hole from Irish processor's and British retailers a Chinese processor's/retailers combination can be no worse.

bb12

the chinese have no interest in being magnanimous anywhere they try to invest. history has proven once they get a foot in the doorway they do their best to exploit and steal information all to be brought back to china. have a look at what they did to agriculture in the US. Students were sent over to work in the industry and they stole all the info they needed to bring back to the fatherland to increase their own crop yields and thus reduce their reliance on us imports. they'd just do the same here..see how beef is raised and processed here, not to increase exports from ireland to china, but to improve their own knowledge in the area to apply at home and stop any imports into china. anywhere they set up shop it's just a huge trojan horse.

just one example:

https://www.marketplace.org/2020/01/15/theft-of-farming-secrets-is-backdrop-for-u-s-china-trade-deal/

patsy_mccabe

You mean like how Irish dairy farm students went to New Zealand to learn about grass management?

Say my name

bb12 wrote: »

the chinese have no interest in being magnanimous anywhere they try to invest. history has proven once they get a foot in the doorway they do their best to exploit and steal information all to be brought back to china. have a look at what they did to agriculture in the US. Students were sent over to work in the industry and they stole all the info they needed to bring back to the fatherland to increase their own crop yields and thus reduce their reliance on us imports. they'd just do the same here..see how beef is raised and processed here, not to increase exports from ireland to china, but to improve their own knowledge in the area to apply at home and stop any imports into china. anywhere they set up shop it's just a huge trojan horse.

just one example:

https://www.marketplace.org/2020/01/15/theft-of-farming-secrets-is-backdrop-for-u-s-china-trade-deal/

Now that's crap.

The U.S. has been taking ideas and agricultural secrets from the rest of the world for centuries.
The only reason it's tolerated by the irish is that our ancestors emigrated to the U.S. and they speak English and look the same as us.

Newsflash.

China already owns the majority of worldwide ag business.

If there's going to be an agricultural war between China and the U.S. why should we pick the U.S. side.
Sitting on the fence between the two should benefit the primary farmer in this country more.

Danzy

Jjameson wrote: »

European and Chinese political relations are strained at the minute and that’s putting it mildly I’d say. The lauded Chinese market for beef is no match for the uk in any case and that’s pretty clear since their ban. I signed anyway despite my misgivings.. who knows it might come to something.

Yet if the Chinese eat meet like Western countries do, then they'll buy every carcasse in the world that is exported, nevermind our bit.

The increases alone that are happening now and the next few years is going to have a big impact on beef prices, much more than what Britain does.

Danzy

charolais0153 wrote: »

I really really don't think the Chinese are going to be any more generous. Leave them where they are

They won't be generous but they will buy what they need to keep their people fed and happy, so they people don't rebel against them.

They're not going to care about prices the cartel fix or about getting the Dept of agriculture to comply with the needs of beef processors, they'll do what they must to suit themselves.

That alone means an improvement for Irish farmers.

patsy_mccabe

Any time there is an extra bidder around the ring, so to speak,...... its good thing.

jaymla627

bb12 wrote: »

the chinese have no interest in being magnanimous anywhere they try to invest. history has proven once they get a foot in the doorway they do their best to exploit and steal information all to be brought back to china. have a look at what they did to agriculture in the US. Students were sent over to work in the industry and they stole all the info they needed to bring back to the fatherland to increase their own crop yields and thus reduce their reliance on us imports. they'd just do the same here..see how beef is raised and processed here, not to increase exports from ireland to china, but to improve their own knowledge in the area to apply at home and stop any imports into china. anywhere they set up shop it's just a huge trojan horse.

just one example:

https://www.marketplace.org/2020/01/15/theft-of-farming-secrets-is-backdrop-for-u-s-china-trade-deal/

They currently have 20,000 square kilometers of farmland flooded due to their policy of destroying rural areas in order to save industrial centers and cities, weather patterns over their are making farming pretty difficult and its only getting worse, they will never be self sufficient in food our anywhere near it, having said that if the plant ever did get up and going you’d nearly want the money in your account before letting cattle into the place

Bass Reeves

bb12 wrote: »

the chinese have no interest in being magnanimous anywhere they try to invest. history has proven once they get a foot in the doorway they do their best to exploit and steal information all to be brought back to china. have a look at what they did to agriculture in the US. Students were sent over to work in the industry and they stole all the info they needed to bring back to the fatherland to increase their own crop yields and thus reduce their reliance on us imports. they'd just do the same here..see how beef is raised and processed here, not to increase exports from ireland to china, but to improve their own knowledge in the area to apply at home and stop any imports into china. anywhere they set up shop it's just a huge trojan horse.

just one example:

https://www.marketplace.org/2020/01/15/theft-of-farming-secrets-is-backdrop-for-u-s-china-trade-deal/

Well if the Chinese government ant to learn about beef production they would not choose a temperate climate country with a grass based system. It more likely they would choose a country with a similar climate to themselves that uses feedlots and complete grain and straw based diets.

It was interesting for all the hype that none of he Irish processor's made any serious attempt to sell products into the Chinese market. They seemed more interested in retaining present customers and not rocking the boat or rising the price to them

When you are getting 10-15%less of a price than 8-10years ago you are not really interested in what the motivation of a new customer is

Dickie10

just wait and watch for the IFA to come out as being very luke warm to this . if not outright against oit for some crazy reason they were told too by Larry and his lads. The IFA most defo wont back this.

patsy_mccabe

Will there be Chinese lads hanging in over the ringside with their arms waving.

SouthWesterly

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Will there be Chinese lads hanging in over the ringside with their arms waving.

They'll be in the corner playing mahjong

Dickie10

SouthWesterly wrote: »

They'll be in the corner playing mahjong

I hear your a racist now....

wrangler

Jjameson wrote: »

The silence speaks volumes.

Beefplan think they're in charge now, they'll give it their kiss of death blessing.

leoch

I was wondering when wrangler would come in with his usual comments and.....boom

wrangler

Jjameson wrote: »

Ah that beef plan are worse than the tans. Dipping into your sales cheques without your permission and helping themselves to a percentage of It unless you explicitly ask them not too. Ring you to sell Vodafone mobile contracts on commission. Is that them or is that the other clowns who have lost their balls some years back and just watch dirty Larry in admiration as he robs the widows cow?

I think beef processors are very tolerant to give yous anything.
Are you that sad that you can't, even yet, see that you cannot interfere with a private business, surely the beef trade for the last year will demonstrate how it backfired on Beef Plan when they thought they'd do it. they've destroyed the beef trade and but for the Northern trade you'd be ****ed. I thought you yourself learnt a strong lesson last year but seemingly not.
Or maybe you expect others to take on the factories while you sit back because that's what it's starting to look like. You've either got sense or you too have lost your balls and watching in admiration.
Are you that sad that you can't see that a percentage of the profits from the phone deals is coming back to farmers same as from FBD and IFJ.

MfMan

wrangler wrote: »

I think beef processors are very tolerant to give yous anything.
Are you that sad that you can't, even yet, see that you cannot interfere with a private business, surely the beef trade for the last year will demonstrate how it backfired on Beef Plan when they thought they'd do it. they've destroyed the beef trade and but for the Northern trade you'd be ****ed. I thought you yourself learnt a strong lesson last year but seemingly not.
Or maybe you expect others to take on the factories while you sit back because that's what it's starting to look like. You've either got sense or you too have lost your balls and watching in admiration.
Are you that sad that you can't see that a percentage of the profits from the phone deals is coming back to farmers same as from FBD and IFJ.

The blockades last year resulted in the QA bonus scheme being increased and also extended to 36-month old cattle. For the first time it put real fear into factories about farmers' power, and belatedly led to the IFA complaining to the Competition Authority about cartels operating in the industry. Are you sad that you can't see that?

wrangler

MfMan wrote: »

The blockades last year resulted in the QA bonus scheme being increased and also extended to 36-month old cattle. For the first time it put real fear into factories about farmers' power, and belatedly led to the IFA complaining to the Competition Authority about cartels operating in the industry. Are you sad that you can't see that?

Bonuses mean nothing if the base price is kept down, we get great bonuses on our lambs but look where the base price quoted from Camolin is every week.
IFA is forever on to CPPC since they were fined in 2001, Don't ever think factories are afraid of you, I've been through a lot more wars than you with them.
They'll let you rot at the gates before they give in

wrangler

Jjameson wrote: »

That has never been tested since. When the cartel can’t use the high court to pin down an organisation and would have to injunct thousands of farmers individually it changes the game. The cartel got the first rattle since 2001.

You are correct in me not bothering again as the lesson I learned/or forgot! I that beef farming is dominated by independent wealth. Large sfp payments, spousal income, independent wealth or income and of course the old age pensions be they state or private.

Two pensions here and there'll be four next year, but I can assure you none of them will be subsidising beef cattle but if guys want to do it that's their right.
Farmers mightn't have as much patience with those blocking the gates the next time that crowd try it

Dickie10

still no word from IFA ? heads buried in sand again?

wrangler

Dickie10 wrote: »

still no word from IFA ? heads buried in sand again?

It'll just be another factory to whinge about.

Base price

I wonder why the Chinese "partners" application failed the IIP criteria?

From the Agriland article that I posted previously - "Applications are, the documents state, assessed by the IIP on the basis of the: profile of the applicant; commercial viability of the project; employment outcomes associated with the proposed investment; and the overall benefit to the Irish state"

alps

Dickie10 wrote: »

still no word from IFA ? heads buried in sand again?

Have you been on to them?

wrangler

alps wrote: »

Have you been on to them?

That'd be sensible but it'd be easier to whinge on
There's a Livestock rep at the end of the phone in every county and they're likely to be a farmer which the beef plan reps probably are not.
In their rush to pile more costs on the factories, Beef plan are too sad to realise that for every 20c/kilo extra processing cost there will be 20c/kilo less for the animal.

awaywithyou

wrangler wrote: »

That'd be sensible but it'd be easier to whinge on
There's a Livestock rep at the end of the phone in every county and they're likely to be a farmer which the beef plan reps probably are not.
In their rush to pile more costs on the factories, Beef plan are too sad to realise that for every 20c/kilo extra processing cost there will be 20c/kilo less for the animal.

if extra costs are incurred by Apple when making Iphones those costs are added to the price of the phone and the end user picks up the tab... why is different with farm produce whether its beef milk poultry lamb etc....

alps

awaywithyou wrote: »

if extra costs are incurred by Apple when making Iphones those costs are added to the price of the phone and the end user picks up the tab... why is different with farm produce whether its beef milk poultry lamb etc....

Maybe because it's only Apple make iPhones...

Panch18

Apple are selling their iphones to you, me and every other mug in the planet. We will buy it if it costs 500 or 520 - we have no buying power to drive down the sales price

The factories are selling their produce to supermarkets and major corporations - who will drive down the factory selling price as low as they can, and that's what they are doing. Farmers sales prices is being sacrificed so the end consumer can have cheap meat whilst at the same time the middle men of factories and supermarkets maintain their profit margin

wrangler

Jjameson wrote: »

And a cartel of 6 millionaire/billionaire families dominate the processing of Irish and uk beef. I suppose the lack of farmers ringing the ifa reps shows their irrelevance as a representative body. At one time you could of trusted that they wouldn’t need to be asked.

So that's your excuse for not bothering to be involved,, you also say you're sick of Beef Plan, that's why I say that farmers are authors of their own misfortune.
You've got €150m this year and still whinge, you're starting to sound like bold children now.
Surely considering the inability of some farmers to run a successful business, they should be admiring the beef processors instead of begrudging them.
You won't find me at the gates of ICM

wrangler

Jjameson wrote: »

I was never a beef plan advocate. Never attended a meeting and only joined the protest when it went solo farmers, 3.45 a kg and a slaney meat procurement manager predicting 3.00 by Christmas irked me to go shake my fist at the gates. But with regard to being sick Beef plan of Id say bar your obsession with them on the wouldn’t cross my radar at all. The politics are so nuts they are nonexistent in reality.
And admiration of greed, bullies, criminals never will never happen no matter what kind of pickle I make of trying to make a few bob from farming!

Back on topic the Icmsa are asking the questions on this.
Is there something more than farmers not bothering to ask the ifa to do the same?
It is curious.
In all likelihood the chances of Irish prime beef getting any meaningful price against Uruguayan beef in china or being viable at face value is unlikely. It’s a useful market for offal and low value trim but the political trade situation make it an unlikely proposition in any case.
The beef would have to headed for the markets in the uk and Europe as the rest surely. Is it just a case of a cover story for the purchase of passports?

I'd have very little hope of it coming to anything, the world price will have to change to have any meaningful improvement in Ireland.
Farmers annoying their customers will only make it worse and them spreading lies has really blown our credibility

Dickie10

Any word on the Banagher Beef Plant or have the IFA and Larry put that to bed?

wrangler

Dickie10 wrote: »

Any word on the Banagher Beef Plant or have the IFA and Larry put that to bed?

There's nearly twenty plants in Ireland already, how many more do you want,
Did the Kepak plant in clare ever open after beef plan closed it down

Danzy

wrangler wrote: »

There's nearly twenty plants in Ireland already, how many more do you want,
Did the Kepak plant in clare ever open after beef plan closed it down

The Chinese would be better off buying a small player in Ireland and expanding their their operation.

That said they could buy every factory and consider the lot as a very small operation.

wrangler

Danzy wrote: »

The Chinese would be better off buying a small player in Ireland and expanding their their operation.

That said they could buy every factory and consider the lot as a very small operation.

Bord bia even brought a chinese guy to our farm and introduced him as the equivalent of Larry goodman multiplied by ten....... imagine the begrudgery against him by farmers here.
We had ewes lambing at the time and he was fascinated by the care the ewes took of their newborns.
china has the most sheep in the world, we must have been just hobby farmers to him at 550 ewes

ruwithme

Every little no doubt would help for consumption of beef,but would China really be a market for our best beef products?

Long journey away too and they want everything cheap don't they?

Danzy

ruwithme wrote: »

Every little no doubt would help for consumption of beef,but would China really be a market for our best beef products?

Long journey away too and they want everything cheap don't they?

Ireland is closer to them than many global main markets that supply them now.

It's the scale of it, they could take our entire yearly kill and view it as a start, nothing significant.

Their demand rose Brazilian beef through the roof. Beef is now out of the price range of many middle class families in Brazil. China will take most of Brazil's beef in time.

The amount of beef exported global is quite small.

ruwithme

Brazilian beef is cheap though by comparison to ours,China might eat it all in a month or less maybe, but would they be prepared to pay for it??

wrangler

ruwithme wrote: »

Brazilian beef is cheap though by comparison to ours,China might eat it all in a month or less maybe, but would they be prepared to pay for it??

China is our market for wool and we know where the price of that is, wool buyers here claim they're hard to deal with.

richie123

I don't think this factory will make any difference.
There's plenty of extra capacity in all other existing factories if the demand for product was there.
There's bigger problems facing beef in the line of climate and the vegan agenda

alps

It's not about a factory. It's about a buyer other than the existing MII stranglehold.

patsy_mccabe

wrangler wrote: »

There's nearly twenty plants in Ireland already, how many more do you want,
Did the Kepak plant in clare ever open after beef plan closed it down

The plant closing in Clare had nothing to do with the Beef Plan. I know why it closed but I won't say on here.

Dinzee Conlee

alps wrote: »

It's not about a factory. It's about a buyer other than the existing MII stranglehold.

But won’t any new factory be represented by MII?

alps

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

But won’t any new factory be represented by MII?

Not unless they get into bed with them.