Gangland Shootings part 4 - Read OP before posting - updated 30/12/23

Ash.J.Williams

My suspicion is that the emails would have revealed that the photo identification process did indeed involve prompting, and that Fox felt guilty that the trial would collapse just because they'd been in such a hurry to nail Hutch that they bent the rules and thus compromised the entire trial. But that's just a total guess based on piecing together all the media reports which came out around the time of the trial being repeatedly delayed, and its aftermath. You can read through them yourselves here:

i don't buy this part at all

hatrickpatrick

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

i don't buy this part at all

As I said, pure speculation. All we know for sure is that the defence were angling to make the state's key piece of evidence inadmissible in court, over claims that several Gardaí colluded to falsely claim they had independently recognised a face in the photograph as the suspect they charged - and amidst all of these delays to the trial, the lead investigator committed suicide on the grounds that he had made a "colossal error of judgment", wrote a note which was subsequently handed in to the judge, and ultimately led to the DPP walking away from the case altogether.

Point is, it's clearly about something a lot more serious than the narrative that "they weren't able to prosecute without that Garda as a witness". Something else was going on - the trial was already mired in controversy over alleged breaches of Garda procedure and the suicide, along with the note mentioning a colossal error of judgment, took place in that backdrop. The trial then didn't collapse until after an extensive investigation into the Garda's electronics and those of his colleagues.

IMO, that does not point to anything as simple as "he was our main witness and without him we couldn't proceed". Something else was going on, or the case would have continued regardless and if that was the reason, they wouldn't have had to wait a year for various electronic forensics before making a decision on whether to drop the case.

stingrayed

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

As I said, pure speculation. All we know for sure is that the defence were angling to make the state's key piece of evidence inadmissible in court, over claims that several Gardaí colluded to falsely claim they had independently recognised a face in the photograph as the suspect they charged - and amidst all of these delays to the trial, the lead investigator committed suicide on the grounds that he had made a "colossal error of judgment", wrote a note which was subsequently handed in to the judge, and ultimately led to the DPP walking away from the case altogether.

Point is, it's clearly about something a lot more serious than the narrative that "they weren't able to prosecute without that Garda as a witness". Something else was going on - the trial was already mired in controversy over alleged breaches of Garda procedure and the suicide, along with the note mentioning a colossal error of judgment, took place in that backdrop. The trial then didn't collapse until after an extensive investigation into the Garda's electronics and those of his colleagues.

IMO, that does not point to anything as simple as "he was our main witness and without him we couldn't proceed". Something else was going on, or the case would have continued regardless and if that was the reason, they wouldn't have had to wait a year for various electronic forensics before making a decision on whether to drop the case.

Just maybe they have learnt something from this mess, hence the reason they are taking longer to nail some big fish.

Doublebusy

Don Logan wrote: »

Anyone know if Michael Quinn McDonagh will ever see the outside of a prison in his life time ?

I only watched the movie/documentary Knuckle the other night. He was some case.

benny79

The Rumour was and bear in mind it was a rumour so has to be taking with a pinch of salt that the detective passed a list of who was involved to the jaws Byrne and was found out to be corrupt. Or something along them lines and committed suicide but something definitely dodgy happened and it was covered up. To be honest I dont think we will ever find out.

I definitely say it was something very serious as he didn't just take his life over prompting a few guards to identity PH.

If you ever watched the series underbelly about the Australian under world, its based on a true story the amount of police corruption was unreal! They were involved in rape, murder, extortion etc when they eventually were caught a lot of them committed suicide.

My point is the police force here are on **** money to think none of them are corrupt is very naive especially the amount of money involved!

Sure JQ was a hitman and caught with a Bentley and yacht worth over a million in Spain! ffs

Irishphotodesk

benny79 wrote: »

The Rumour was and bear in mind it was a rumour so has to be taking with a pinch of salt that the detective passed a list of who was involved to the jaws Byrne and was found out to be corrupt. Or something along them lines and committed suicide but something definitely dodgy happened and it was covered up. To be honest I dont think we will ever find out.

I definitely say it was something very serious as he didn't just take his life over prompting a few guards to identity PH.

If you ever watched the series underbelly about the Australian under world, its based on a true story the amount of police corruption was unreal! They were involved in rape, murder, extortion etc when they eventually were caught a lot of them committed suicide.

My point is the police force here are on **** money to think none of them are corrupt is very naive especially the amount of money involved!

Sure JQ was a hitman and caught with a Bentley and yacht worth over a million in Spain! ffs

really ?? have you seen a payslip - they get quite a decent sum of money (various allowances etc on top of basic pay), have you compared it to other police forces ?

I don't doubt that there are some in the force who may be influenced by "easy" money or "helping a friend out" - and others who are undercover will break the law on occasion (in order to keep their cover) - this is generally regarded as normal police work, there was a cop in England if my memory is correct who infiltrated some eco warrior type group as part of his undercover work - had a child with one of them and in "real life" was married with kids of his own too,

Pinoy adventure

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

really ?? have you seen a payslip - they get quite a decent sum of money (various allowances etc on top of basic pay), have you compared it to other police forces ?

I don't doubt that there are some in the force who may be influenced by "easy" money or "helping a friend out" - and others who are undercover will break the law on occasion (in order to keep their cover) - this is generally regarded as normal police work, there was a cop in England if my memory is correct who infiltrated some eco warrior type group as part of his undercover work - had a child with one of them and in "real life" was married with kids of his own too,

That lad in England was called James Bond

benny79

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

really ?? have you seen a payslip - they get quite a decent sum of money (various allowances etc on top of basic pay), have you compared it to other police forces ?

I don't doubt that there are some in the force who may be influenced by "easy" money or "helping a friend out" - and others who are undercover will break the law on occasion (in order to keep their cover) - this is generally regarded as normal police work, there was a cop in England if my memory is correct who infiltrated some eco warrior type group as part of his undercover work - had a child with one of them and in "real life" was married with kids of his own too,

So you think theres no bend guards?? Seriously??? lol.. Sure some have been caught ffs ..lol..

Mr.burgess

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

really ?? have you seen a payslip - they get quite a decent sum of money (various allowances etc on top of basic pay), have you compared it to other police forces ?

I don't doubt that there are some in the force who may be influenced by "easy" money or "helping a friend out" - and others who are undercover will break the law on occasion (in order to keep their cover) - this is generally regarded as normal police work, there was a cop in England if my memory is correct who infiltrated some eco warrior type group as part of his undercover work - had a child with one of them and in "real life" was married with kids of his own too,

They are in ****e money for the job they do 4-5 hundred quid a week for that hassle no thanks, even if it was 1k a week its still not enough

Irishphotodesk

benny79 wrote: »

So you think theres no bend guards?? Seriously??? lol.. Sure some have been caught ffs ..lol..

did you really not read my post ?

Originally Posted by Irishphotodesk View Post
really ?? have you seen a payslip - they get quite a decent sum of money (various allowances etc on top of basic pay), have you compared it to other police forces ?

I don't doubt that there are some in the force who may be influenced by "easy" money or "helping a friend out" - and others who are undercover will break the law on occasion (in order to keep their cover) - this is generally regarded as normal police work, there was a cop in England if my memory is correct who infiltrated some eco warrior type group as part of his undercover work - had a child with one of them and in "real life" was married with kids of his own too.

Of course there are going to be some.

Irishphotodesk

Mr.burgess wrote: »

They are in ****e money for the job they do 4-5 hundred quid a week for that hassle no thanks, even if it was 1k a week its still not enough

there isn't a garda in the country that earns less than €500 a week (after tax), they do have a tough job sometimes, but they are have times when they are essentially waiting for something to happen (like a lot of jobs, its not constantly working)

doublejobbing 2

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

there isn't a garda in the country that earns less than €500 a week (after tax), they do have a tough job sometimes, but they are have times when they are essentially waiting for something to happen (like a lot of jobs, its not constantly working)

I know the new Gardai have been on a poor basic rate since the last recession started but I would have trouble believing many of them are taking home less than 800 per week when you factor in allowances for weekends, night shifts, OT etc (OT now in particular, assisting the traffic corps). 500 would be hard to live off in any job unless you're down the country where a house costs 100k, but in Dublin and with the responsibilities of a Garda it's a terrible wage.

For comparison the union rate for security guards is, off the top of my head, 11..50. I really don't see a Garda getting, after tax, maybe 90 euro more.

benny79 wrote: »

My point is the police force here are on **** money to think none of them are corrupt is very naive especially the amount of money involved!

If anything they are very well paid and their high earning job, and pension (doesn't the average ranking Guard retire about 55?), leaves them open to blackmail if criminal elements ever get to film them/ record them up to no good in their personal lives (using drugs, prostitutes etc)

Of course there would also be Gardai clean as a whistle on all of the above but who have massive gambling habits, a few nagative equity mortgages etc etc who could be got at. But no, I don't think the average Guard is skint enough to engage in spying just because he fancies a bow out in Vegas twice a year.

Julesyeire

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

i don't buy this part at all

I think the hutch’s had some serious info about him!! Which if came out in public would destroy him, family and job!!

d51984

Man in his 50s in serious condition following stabbing earlier in Baldoyle. Just breaking now on dublinlive.ie

Rows Grower

There's a WhatsApp going around of a stabbing in Elphin, shows a lad being arrested and the victim on the ground.

d51984

There has been a lot of tension in the Baldoyle area over the last few months between locals and "outsiders".

I wonder is this stabbing related.

Billy Mays

d51984 wrote: »

There has been a lot of tension in the Baldoyle area over the last few months between locals and "outsiders".

I wonder is this stabbing related.

Happened inside the pub

Argument between staff I heard

bennyx_o

Driving home past the Five Lamps and guards had Seville Place closed to traffic - looked to be tape up around just before the bridge, nothing showing online

Stooped

bennyx_o wrote: »

Driving home past the Five Lamps and guards had Seville Place closed to traffic - looked to be tape up around just before the bridge, nothing showing online

Another stabbing. Just said it on the news there.

Pinoy adventure

bennyx_o wrote: »

Driving home past the Five Lamps and guards had Seville Place closed to traffic - looked to be tape up around just before the bridge, nothing showing online

Another stabbing in the last 30mins

not yet

bennyx_o wrote: »

Driving home past the Five Lamps and guards had Seville Place closed to traffic - looked to be tape up around just before the bridge, nothing showing online

Nother stabbing.

SEPT 23 1989

Didn't the judge say just before he dismissed the case that "extraordinary evidence" had been brought before him


Nobody in the media followed this up

Total silence

Rows Grower

Pipe bomb found in a garden of a house in Longford.

dvcireland

d51984 wrote: »

There has been a lot of tension in the Baldoyle area over the last few months between locals and "outsiders".

I wonder is this stabbing related.

outsiders ? People from Sutton ?

d51984

dvcireland wrote: »

outsiders ? People from Sutton ?

Darndale!

doublejobbing 2

I like how the near total lack of action in a year has made this thread into a discussion place for random acts of violence in places where shootings used to happen :pac: (well, bar Bardoyle)

doublejobbing 2

Julesyeire wrote: »

I think the hutch’s had some serious info about him!! Which if came out in public would destroy him, family and job!!

Rumours everywhere. What does appear to be clear is that several of the people murdered in the aftermath of the regency were shot for bigger reasons than merely being a relative/ friend of Hutch.

SEPT 23 1989

If the truth ever came out it would rock the state to its core

This had to be covered up at all costs

Irishphotodesk

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

If the truth ever came out it would rock the state to its core

This had to be covered up at all costs

you say that as though you know what the "truth" is !! Do you ?

P.Walnuts

Irishphotodesk wrote: »

you say that as though you know what the "truth" is !! Do you ?

Does he f*ck