Gangland Shootings part 4 - Read OP before posting - updated 30/12/23

J.O. Farmer

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

This won't be a popular view in this thread but I do actually think that Kinahan and his boxing associates have a point. Whatever we say colloquially or whatever is known by "the barking dogs on the street", the presumption of innocents until conviction is one of the most fundamental cornerstones of living in a free society, and I must admit it really doesn't sit well with me to have senior politicians and officials contacting foreign governments to pressure them into penalising an Irish citizen because the Gardaí say he or she has done something wrong.

Before anyone jumps in and suggests that this is unreasonable, consider Ian Bailey for one obvious example. The French regard him as a de facto convicted murderer, if the Irish government took that at face value because of diplomatic approaches his life would be even more f*cked up than it already is.

Point being, for politicians to state under Dáil privilege that citizens should not be free to engage in work or business deals in legitimate industries, despise those individuals having no convictions, is simply a precedent we don't want as a society. It's easy to say "everyone knows Kinahan is a scumbag" but the fact remains that we "know" this from media reports and Garda comments, not rulings by a court of law. That should not be enough to strip a person of their business, in my view.

Again, not defending him specifically or denying the allegations against him. Merely stating that as far as I'm concerned, if the man has no convictions, he should be free to conduct business with sporting organisations and boxers should be free to work with him without being "cancelled". Politicians should not be dictating the lives of people without criminal convictions and nor should the media. It was fundamentally wrong that he lost his sponsorship deals last year just because politicians said things about him - we can argue about a business having the right to decline service and etc etc etc, but at the end of the day, the spirit of the law is not being honoured if innocent until proven guilty is circumvented in this manner.

If they can do it to him, they can do it to anyone they don't like, for any reason. The next time it happens, it could be tomorrow's Maurice McCabe. It could be tomorrow's Ian Bailey.

Our government should not have stepped in in this manner and leaned on a foreign government to disrupt an innocent man's business dealings, and unless he is found guilty in court, in the eyes of the law he is exactly that - an innocent man.

All true but just look at Marilyn Manson this week for example. His career is in tatters and no business wants to be associated with him based on allegations which haven't been proven in a court of law. Many others the same. Not to say the allegations are true or false but nobody is waiting to find out, the assumption is they're true.

Could you imagine any other industry outside boxing where there's a documentary like the panorama one and everyone goes we're happy to do business with this man. He'd have been dropped before the documentary aired.

Rows Grower

Drive by shooting at a halting site in Limerick, getaway vehicle recovered....

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/garda-search-underway-after-reports-of-shots-fired-in-limerick-1077019.html

bigsuge1

Mr.burgess wrote: »

His brother done that on his own accord because he thought he was making a fool of gary and the money he investment in a shipment that went wrong gary didnt want to do anything so his brother did

Still to this day can’t believe he was stupid enough to do that.

I suppose the next question is why was Gary blamed and banished abroad when it was his brother? Losing a million or whatever his cut was would be hard to take but surely Gary was pulling in serious cash anyway it’s not as if he, his father or younger stupid brother were strapped for cash being the people they were.

I know guys who turn over GOOD money moving decent bits of weight and that’s a drop in the ocean compared to what these guys would be doing.

All hindsight of course but surely if the brother had a brain he’d realise it would be better waiting it out and getting the money at some point in the future rather than trying to kill a murder happy gang boss.

Mr.burgess

bigsuge1 wrote: »

Still to this day can’t believe he was stupid enough to do that.

I suppose the next question is why was Gary blamed and banished abroad when it was his brother? Losing a million or whatever his cut was would be hard to take but surely Gary was pulling in serious cash anyway it’s not as if he, his father or younger stupid brother were strapped for cash being the people they were.

I know guys who turn over 20k a month moving decent bits of weight and that’s a drop in the ocean compared to what these guys would be doing.

All hindsight of course but surely if the brother had a brain he’d realise it would be better waiting it out and getting the money at some point in the future rather than trying to kill a murder happy gang boss.

Of his head on coke obviously when he did it

Del Griffith

Kaisersosay wrote: »

The presumption of innocence until proven guilty is a bedrock..I agree.
CAB submitted a "sworn on" affitdavit to the High Court in which Gardai named DK as the leader of the KOCG. The High Court accepted this affitdavit and he was named. That is all allowed under the 1996 Proceeds of Crime Act.
If DK, or anyone for that matter, wanted to challenge that finding he was perfectly entitled to do so under our legal system.( and many have appealed against CAB). I'd imagine he still could.
So as far as I am concerned his right to innocence hasn't been violated. Its been stated that he is the leader of the group... based on evidence submitted by the Gardai...which is legal under the act.... and Sin e.

No one has ever won an appeal against CAB. You have that right to appeal in name only.

ghostfacekilla

How much truth I wonder is there to the report of Patrick Jr (some reports indicated him and one other) being disciplined by being kneecapped or shot in the leg as a disciplinary measure along with the handover of the agreed sum of cash after the Jamie Moore shooting?

TheTruth2021

Mr.burgess wrote: »

Of his head on coke obviously when he did it

GH knew the shooting was going down ffs, PH wouldn’t have took a pop at DK without Gary knowing about it. PH used Mink Koks BMW Jeep as the getaway car ffs which only GH and small selection of others would have had access to. GH went straight to Holland after the shooting to hideout with Gerry and kept the head down until the meeting was arranged . PH would never had made that decision alone of his own back .

Figel Narage

ghostfacekilla wrote: »

How much truth I wonder is there to the report of Patrick Jr (some reports indicated him and one other) being disciplined by being kneecapped or shot in the leg as a disciplinary measure along with the handover of the agreed sum of cash after the Jamie Moore shooting?

I think Patrick getting knee capped has been confirmed by news sources and people in the know on this forum. Although the news sources also said that DK flew over and personally administered the punishment which I don't believe at all, I'm pretty sure that he did get knee capped. I'm dubious of the money being handed over, it would make sense they would pay for Moore's hospital/rehabilitation fee's but the 200K sum or whatever it was handed over to DK seems a bit head scratching, isn't that chump change to someone like DK? Although Gary was a notorious drug trafficker and had done some truly evil things, it does make the whole story look so tragic for him as he was blamed for this happening when it seemed like his younger brother just went mad for a brief period and it cost him his life a long with a lot of other family members. I know they suspected Gary of being an informant and he was openly complaining about the money he gave them not being returned and he appeared to have been setting up his own trafficking organization before he died but it seemed like if his brother didn't do that he may still be alive today.

Noseygit

Titzon Toast wrote: »

Where did you read that?

Front page of the star yesterday

greyday

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/1y3kadznaf/the-suspected-gangster-at-the-heart-of-world-boxing

stingrayed

Figel Narage wrote: »

I think Patrick getting knee capped has been confirmed by news sources and people in the know on this forum. Although the news sources also said that DK flew over and personally administered the punishment which I don't believe at all, I'm pretty sure that he did get knee capped. I'm dubious of the money being handed over, it would make sense they would pay for Moore's hospital/rehabilitation fee's but the 200K sum or whatever it was handed over to DK seems a bit head scratching, isn't that chump change to someone like DK? Although Gary was a notorious drug trafficker and had done some truly evil things, it does make the whole story look so tragic for him as he was blamed for this happening when it seemed like his younger brother just went mad for a brief period and it cost him his life a long with a lot of other family members. I know they suspected Gary of being an informant and he was openly complaining about the money he gave them not being returned and he appeared to have been setting up his own trafficking organization before he died but it seemed like if his brother didn't do that he may still be alive today.

Exactly that, and the rat story was another setup by fat freddie to look better in DK,s eyes, same as FF setup Paddy Doyle, FF was the bad egg in most of this, DK used FF then realised he knew to much and was going to have FF topped, but then all the crap hit the fan with GH death, so used FF hoping he would be killed by the hutches, it is really that simple, DK likes taking money but does not like sharing.

MrMedium

Del Griffith wrote: »

No one has ever won an appeal against CAB. You have that right to appeal in name only.

Sean Hunt won his appeal to CAB, probably the only one.

cocotheclown

stingrayed wrote: »

Exactly that, and the rat story was another setup by fat freddie to look better in DK,s eyes, same as FF setup Paddy Doyle, FF was the bad egg in most of this, DK used FF then realised he knew to much and was going to have FF topped, but then all the crap hit the fan with GH death, so used FF hoping he would be killed by the hutches, it is really that simple, DK likes taking money but does not like sharing.

Instead of FF knowing too much, surely it's more likely FF had pissed too many people off and was now a hinderance instead of being an asset, bills always need to be paid.

stingrayed

cocotheclown wrote: »

Instead of FF knowing too much, surely it's more likely FF had pissed too many people off and was now a hinderance instead of being an asset, bills always need to be paid.

Aye you have that also, horrible person is that FF he is where he should be now.

Joeseph Balls

Figel Narage wrote: »

I think Patrick getting knee capped has been confirmed by news sources and people in the know on this forum.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thejournal.ie/gunshot-wounds-mater-hospital-1623610-Aug2014/%3famp=1

Don't think he was ever actually named in the media though

doublejobbing 2

Joeseph Balls wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thejournal.ie/gunshot-wounds-mater-hospital-1623610-Aug2014/%3famp=1

Don't think he was ever actually named in the media though

The incident was reported when it happened, can't recall if he was named.

It did however, crop up in the Regency trial. A guard testifying was asked if he knew Patrick, he said he had known of him since he was a child (I guess with the brothers and father he has the house was visited often) and he had dealt with the case of him being shot in the leg.

Figel Narage

Joeseph Balls wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thejournal.ie/gunshot-wounds-mater-hospital-1623610-Aug2014/%3famp=1

Don't think he was ever actually named in the media though

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/crime/patrick-hutch-shot-leg-top-14039265.amp

Don Logan

Is it true Mago was related to one of the members of “Boyzone” ?

ghostfacekilla

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

The incident was reported when it happened, can't recall if he was named.

It did however, crop up in the Regency trial. A guard testifying was asked if he knew Patrick, he said he had known of him since he was a child (I guess with the brothers and father he has the house was visited often) and he had dealt with the case of him being shot in the leg.

If the guard dealt with the case, I’m assuming the incident happened in Ireland as opposed to Spain

Pinoy adventure

Who is the kinahan top gangster who shot Patrick in the leg ?

Alliance123

Pinoy adventure wrote: »

Who is the kinahan top gangster who shot Patrick in the leg ?

I heard it was david byrne.

theballz

That panorama doc might have bought ears some time. Too many eyes on cancer now

Stooped

Don Logan wrote: »

Is it true Mago was related to one of the members of “Boyzone” ?

Distant cousins

Don Logan

Stooped wrote: »

Distant cousins

Kinda funny when ya think about it, RIP to him though he died there 10 years ago

PLATOBONG

Does anyone know the story bout the two lads shot in Derry last night ?

Haladmirer

ghostfacekilla wrote: »

If the guard dealt with the case, I’m assuming the incident happened in Ireland as opposed to Spain

Ph was shot in the leg in dublin
Ph shot jamie moore in leg in spain

Tomtom3105

PLATOBONG wrote: »

Does anyone know the story bout the two lads shot in Derry last night ?

Seems to be a few of these going on in derry this year I think its five since the start of 2021 are they not punishment for owing a drug debt ? Same as the traveller in rathnew last November

Eyes1

Mr.burgess wrote: »

His brother done that on his own accord because he thought he was making a fool of gary and the money he investment in a shipment that went wrong gary didnt want to do anything so his brother did

So he ballsed it up twice then?

Needs to go back to the drawing board it seems.

antics1

For those that listen to talksport radio, Jim white has just announced that Daniel Kinahan has given talksport an statement regarding his position with MKT. He will be reading it out on the show this morning

John_D3

How did Liam Roe get staying about Dublin? With Liam, Sean Mc and his mates all fleeing how did he get staying?