Gangland Shootings part 4 - Read OP before posting - updated 30/12/23

Spencer101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119732542#Comment_119732542

His house in Paddocks is a 4 bedroom house worth c€900,000. Think he moved there in the early 90s ? That was within 10 years of Larry Dunne's downfall. Part of the 'heat' that saw Dunne's empire unravel was that he bought what was often described as a mansion in Dublin mountains in Sandyford. If someone was a criminal in late 1980s/ early 1990s was it strange within memory of Dunne's arrest that they would buy a house in a 'normal' middle class estate rather than a more eye catching house. In terms of him being mean: no real idea. But he did fly out a lot of friends and family to Spain for (afaik) his 50th birthday it was well covered at time by Sunday World. The 2000 Magill profile refers to him supporting a childhood friend who was trying to get off drugs- by taking them away for their first holiday outside Ireland.

Spencer101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119732404#Comment_119732404

Patrick Hutch got a Nolle rather than a not guilty. Nolle prosequi: (something like) - 'unwilling to pursue.' Technically possible to re-prosecute with a Nolle- but extremely rare and hard to find a recent example of when that occurred.

bricksNDmortar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119732995#Comment_119732995

A nolles prosequi is vacation or abandonment of the file. Possible recharge as its not a acquittal , state can re-indict double jeopardy doesn't apply for a nolles prosequi, Leon Griffin assault case was a nolles prosequi a number of years ago and was recharged.

Paddy is being charged again.

Gusser09

Do we know how long the trial is expected to last? The more I think about it I can't see the DPP pursuing through the SCC just for the sake of it. They must be sure of a positive outcome.Obviously Gerard Hutch went quiet from the late 90's on in terms of murders but this episode has highlighted what a plight the Hutch family were on the NIC. Now don;t get me wrong I know that some of the kids have turned out grand against the odds and hopefully they don't suffer any repercussions but the Hutch name is symbolic of the issues in that area. He survived longer than Viper Foley and stayed in the game longer than Gilligan. Looks like his time is coming to an end though.

bricksNDmortar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119733580#Comment_119733580

I'd say 5 months 12 weeks initially now cause they backloaded to make sure it starts on time tuesday. Give it an extra few weeks for the backload to be read into transcripts and then grehan will meticulously try pick apart Dowdalls statement.

spider baby 172

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119733354#Comment_119733354

Did it ever become known about why exactly Patricks case was abondoned. I know its something to do with the suicide in Ballymun GS but I don't remember it ever becoming known why it was an issue. Is it something that is likely to come up in the Monks case too?? I always expected the Monk would be holding an ace card if he was ever brought to court on these charges

Spencer101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119733354#Comment_119733354

Griffin seemed to be jailed for assault in 2013. His more recent sentences including his sentence this year seems to have been for other offences ? Was the 2013 assault previously discontinued due to a nolle ? Hypothetically if you were involved in procuring a room used by 1 of the attackers but not at hotel on day of assault is your evidence enough to say who was TAC1, TAC2 and TAC3 and 'Flat Cap's companion' ?

Readbetweenthelines

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119734463#Comment_119734463

Dowdalls defence is he innocently booked a room and handed over the keys to Gerard if then he has gave a statement naming the shooters then how would he know unless he had knowledge of the attack he might trip himself up with his lies

bricksNDmortar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119734463#Comment_119734463

Leon had a NP and was recharged and jailed him and Jamie. Dowdall will have to accept he played an operational part in thr job if he's pointing people. If he's gave a 50 page statement he no doubt has.

Readbetweenthelines

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119734588#Comment_119734588

Exactly how an he say he innocently rented a room with no knowledge of what it was used for then go ahead and implicate all the shooters he contradicting himself I cannot see his evidence standing up if thats the case he be shredded during cross examination

john boye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119734566#Comment_119734566

Lol

bricksNDmortar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119734614#Comment_119734614

If they want it to stand they'll make sure it stands. At the end of patricks trial Sadie asked to address the court, she was refused as judges walked out. I can bet that this time nothing of that happens, they'll get the guilty they want. Government want a pound of flesh for this considering the devastation that followed.

fergiesfav

So who shot Mel Cox, a couple of ye seem to know. Three possibilities were shot in 2016, and didn't an old associate die in the UK that year to.

Readbetweenthelines

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735153#Comment_119735153

Derek H

fergiesfav

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735161#Comment_119735161

He was well gone by 2016, which is the year some are saying the shooter died

Spencer101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735193#Comment_119735193

Reference is obviously to Derek Hutch senior the monk's brother. He committed suicide in 2009 saying before he died that he felt very guilty about something that happened years ago. In '09/10 this was linked in media to a 'missing' associate who seemingly just did a 'Reggie Perrin' and was alive and well in UK.

Readbetweenthelines

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735321#Comment_119735321

Yes thats what i heard wheter its true or not I dont know

Thesiger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735153#Comment_119735153

Kingsize I think is the name being referred to earlier in the thread.

Spencer101

Noel 'Kingsize' Duggan was a cigarette smuggler. He wasn’t afaik violent.

bricksNDmortar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735342#Comment_119735342

Derek senior killed Mel Cox.

Mantis Toboggan

Dowdall will get a serious cross examination, my guess is that he'll crack under the pressure.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735520#Comment_119735520

My guess is he will extremely well prepared by the DPP and stand up to questioning.

bricksNDmortar

Sometimes I think back to Wayne and think what was it all for look at the **** show that followed. Too many have died and to alot on here who have lived a life a long way away from these men who lie in graves due to feuds, to alot of us these were friends and family.

I'm going to bow out and cancel the account lads. Look after yaselves.

Yuppp the pups

juno10353

While watching primetime last night I was reminded of the amazing Defence Senior Councils Patrick McEntee and Seamus Sorehan. Amazing defence attorneys and so well versed on the most obscure legal points, and also amazing to watch them tie a court case together. Do we have defence of their calibre now?

How does Gerry Hutchs defence team compare?

NorthCity

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119735912#Comment_119735912

The Hutches have just lost one of their biggest cheerleaders .

joeguevara

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119732940#Comment_119732940

Martin Cahill’s house in Rathmines is just a normal looking house in a quiet middle class neighbourhood. From what I remember it was sold about 20 years ago for something like 950k which would have been average enough price. I never saw inside but if Brendan Gleeson film is based on fact just a nice comfortable home.

Spencer101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119737364#Comment_119737364

Sold for €904,000 average house price for that estate in Rathmines at the time. Give or take 2.5 times the price of the average house in Dublin in 2005. For the youngsters who haven't seen the movie and don't remember much about someone who died nearly 30 years ago- the 'General' bought 17 Cowper Downs, Rathmines in 1984 for £80,000. Brought that sum in cash into a bank to get a bank draft for the purchase. Shortly after he walked out of the branch members of his gang robbed the bank of .....£80,000. Cahill got some 'heat' over the house after being featured on 'Today Tonight' in 1988 which afaik is on YouTube. He was on the dole, hadn't worked for official purposes since 1969 but bought the house a few years previously for what was about twice the average price of a house at the time in Dublin. 'Today Tonight' linked him to the O'Connor jewelry robbery and the Beit robbery. T.D Dessie O'Malley remarked, in Dail, that he needed the extra wall space (in what was a comfortable house in a nice area) to ' "hang his artwork by the Dutch masters.'

joeguevara

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119737410#Comment_119737410

Completely agree with you regarding the price difference between it and houses in other areas. But if you transported the house itself to my hometown in Clonmel, it would be the same as the vast majority of estate houses. if you compared it to 10 cold water lakes, or some of the Mansfield properties or Jess Brook it pales into insignificance. Even better was the installation of a pigeon loft which must have been a red rag to a bull for the neighbours. I was working with a guy about 3 years ago whose father and him were avid pigeon racers. He was telling me that Mr Cahill was a regular visitor to his house when he was a kid to buy/sell or admire their pigeons or make plans for next competition.

The fact that a revenue commissioners car mysteriously went on fire when questioning Mr Cahill on his earnings must have been a shock for a quiet suburban area.

But instances of people without any visible employment living in expensive homes, but driving nice cars and able to enjoy the finer things in life was the start of CAB which is one of the most destructive instruments for criminals.

it is as rare as hens teeth that legislation exists that reverses the burden of proof onto the plaintiff. They have to show that assets did not come from the proceeds of crime rather than vice versa.

apologies if not a relevant post.

Paul Lawlor

I actually feel bad for Gerard Hutch. Dowdall is the lowest of the low. if you do the crime you should be big enough to do the crime.

It should be an interesting few weeks. Im sure Mago and the boys are very stressed at this moment in time. I dont have any inside knowledge but my gut tells me Mago was one of the ERU shooters and i think the Byrnes know aswell and thats why they want him dead so much.

Paul Lawlor

Too bad the trial wasnt open to the public. We could of had a Gangland shooting meetup in the public gallery. I would of brought a big bag of Finglas flake if someone else supplied the alcohol.