Shannon Water for Dublin?

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122531103#Comment_122531103

So we'd all be better dismantling the cities and moving to the countryside? Can you imagine what would happen to farming in Ireland if we were to turn the country in to a housing estate? Rural house dwellers have a massive carbon footprint compared to an apartment living city dwellers. Forestation, solar farmers, wind farmers, livestock farmers, tillage farmers are all part of rural living. The majority of non-farming people living in rural Ireland have more connection to their car than they have to the land, if they don't like it they can always move to an urban area.

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122531136#Comment_122531136

Again, this is what happens when you steam into the middle of a discussion, get irrationally angry and don't bother reading the whole thing.

It was claimed by others that we could somehow harvest all the rainwater from Dublin city and this would solve the problem. That is the "new tech" in question.

Desalination is a stupid idea for a whole different set of reasons.

Former Former Former

The rural areas of Ireland are being exploited by the City dwellers. 

I laughed at loud at this and then finally realised I was being taken for a ride.

Tell you what, you keep your Shannon water and Dublin will keep all the money it generates that massively subsidises the standard of living in the rest of the country. We'll build a desalination plant and you can go back to the 1980s. How does that sound?

gossamerfabric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122531144#Comment_122531144

Yours is a strawman argument.

Also rural house dwellers and those in rural villages do not have a massive carbon footprint compared to City dwellers.

Studies have shown that rural dwellers generally lead less carbon intensive lifestyles…they stay in, cook for themselves, potter around their gardens and do little harm to themselves or others.

Most houses are connected to their own water wells or group water schemes.

They have the roof area to run photovoltaic and/or solar thermal heating solutions… they use the infrastructure in the local communities and the roads which link the towns and villages. With a transition to electric vehicles the gap is widening between rural dwellers and those who choose to live in the cities.

As I said before some here haven't the first clue about the relationship of rural dwellers with the environment they inhabit and in their ignorance demonize them.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122531020#Comment_122531020

You have offered no evidence whatsoever.

Vague assertions are not evidence.

Comparing Ireland to first Israel and now Malta is laughable.

gossamerfabric

The comparison to Malta and Israel is valid even if Ireland has a temperate climate and they have desert or Mediterranean climates. If you don't have lots of glaciers supplying the river then the river is in a precarious state.

…you won't appreciate something like the Shannon until it is gone.

Can't waste any more time on this as lunch break is over.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122531189#Comment_122531189

Studies show that car dependent rural house dwellers have a massive carbon footprint compared to city dwellers. You should educate yourself on Ireland and it's environment before vilifying communities.

https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/ab443d#:~:text=On%20average%2C%20carbon%20footprints%20are,higher%20average%20income%20in%20cities.

https://climateadaptationplatform.com/who-has-the-bigger-carbon-footprint-rural-or-urban-dwellers/#:~:text=Even%20though%20city%2Ddwellers%20may,has%20a%20higher%20carbon%20footprint.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2009/mar/23/city-dwellers-smaller-carbon-footprints

Urbanisation increases household carbon footprints in developing economies. However, the results from developed countries have varied, particularly in Europe. This study provides a coherent comparison of the impact of the degree of urbanisation on income, expenditure and carbon footprints in Europe. On average, carbon footprints are 7% lower in cities than in rural areas when income and household characteristics are controlled. 

Add millions of people burning rubbish and turf in Ireland in to that mix.

gossamerfabric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122531298#Comment_122531298

I'm time poor at the moment and can't dig up the report showing that rural dwellers actually have a lower footprint because they spend less time gadding about and stay close to home due to being generally self-sufficient. Anything I say to you would be dismissed anyhow as your view is entrenched and you will never listen to this contributor who has spent roughly half their life in both urban and rural homes.

My contribution will stand on its own merits and offer food for thought to those who are open-minded. Bye.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122531327#Comment_122531327

I'm time poor and can find plenty of evidence to support that rural dwellers have a large carbon footprint.

Your contributions have zero merit and are being laughed at by anyone with an average IQ. Even the staunchest anti sharing of national recourses and regionalisation recognises this .

gossamerfabric

From my memory of it the studies showed that rural dwellers have lower disposable incomes and as such consume fewer goods and services and those attracted to a rural lifestyle generally consume less as that goes hand in hand with country living. lower consumption equates to lower emissions. Perhaps you don't care about your work but I really do need to get back to work. Stop insulting me and others…it is not conducive to discourse.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122531451#Comment_122531451

No, they're more car reliant, burn more fossil fuels, use less public transport, are further away from recycling facilities, live in larger houses, don't tend to live in apartments, tend to have more than one car per family and use septic tanks.

Here's more evidence. If this offends you move on.

https://www.askaboutireland.ie/enfo/irelands-environment/the-built-environment/pressures-on-the-environm-1/

gossamerfabric

Ahhh, You are hurting my head here by just spouting green dogma with no critical thinking.

car reliant, yes, but travel less and not on a whim

fossil fuels consumption is entirely dependent on whether they are running a diesel, petrol or electric car and when they are in the car they are running it efficiently rather than crawling at less than 15kmph in city traffic on bus or private transport ignoring the narrow spines for dart and (only)two tram lines.

use less public transport, yes see above…they do not travel on a whim.

they consume less so produce less waste and if you are travelling rural roads on a rubbish collection day you will see the wheelie bins out waiting for collection. I am more and more convinced you don't know the first thing about rural life.

a larger house is not in of itself proof of higher emissions but you throw it around as incontrovertible proof of same.

what is the floor area difference between a cottage in the country and an apartment?

what is going in to a septic tank is carbon neutral…it was once food and returns to the earth as nutrients.

Waste treatment plants can consume up to 20% of a municipality's power requirement. septic tanks are passive. domestic effluent treatment installations near passive.

two cars which stay stationary most of the time…sunk carbon cost.

Some of us are sick of being lectured to by know-nothing Know-it-alls who vote in urban based green candidates who dream of a utopian authoritarian green dogma world bearing no relationship to the reality of rural living.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122531657#Comment_122531657

Electric cars are more efficient going slowly.

Rural people constantly travel on a whim, Sunday drives etc… Urban people are more likely to use public transport, cycle or walk.

Rubbish collections are more harmful as the trucks have to drive huge distances to each house instead of 50 houses in a row. Same with postal, deliveries and other services.

Larger houses are harder to heat and have a larger footprint and stand alone ones draw more resources than urban ones. They cauyse irreversible pressure on land usage, which can lead to fragmentation of open landscape areas and the resulting loss of biodiversity.

Cottages are being abandoned, larger rural houses are being built. Very few private apartments are being abandoned.

Single houses in the countryside have, for the most part, septic tank treatment systems for wastewater and this poses an increasing risk to groundwater and surface water quality.

Two cars are worse than one.

gossamerfabric

so much here to correct you on but just don't have the time. just to start...cottages are NOT being abandoned as they are highly prized for a way to work around local needs. septic tanks and effluent treatment plants are a fixed distance from site boundaries since decades…I remember holding the tape measure for that one a long time ago for a neighbour. don't lecture me on the co2 footprint of my electric car based on carbon mix on my electricity. great distances…this ain't Texas. two cars used infrequently have a sunk cost but not ongoing cost in terms of CO2. I'm shaking my head being confronted by your arrogance on the topic of rural living.

John_Rambo

I'm shaking my head at the sheer ignorance & arrogance you display regarding urbanites and your lack of knowledge regarding the reduced impact they have on the environment, you haven't produced a shred of evidence to support your outrageous theories.
How you can think an apartment dwelling public transport user has a larger carbon footprint than a rural one off house dweller with two cars on the go is laughable! LOL!

gossamerfabric

it stands to reason that a "user" would have a different consumption pattern than someone living in a rural one-off house but you are comparing two different things…a single person and a family unit with two cars. the apartment dweller can and very often is a highly conspicuous consumer because the opportunities are there to consume with low effort while a rural family can and very often is very frugal by virtue of their remote situation.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122531269#Comment_122531269

The comparisons with Israel and Malta are completely idiotic and you have provided nothing whatsoever to dispute that.

A largely desert country in the Middle East and a tiny island with limited rainfall in the middle of the Mediterranean. Neither comparable to Ireland's population density or climate in any way.

The Shannon doesn't need glaciers, it has the vast Atlantic supplying it with rain.

Where do you think the ice in glaciers comes from? and you are aware that they are receding all over Europe? how's that for precarious.

I don't think I've ever seen such nonsense spouted on a thread as on this one, and that's saying something.

Busman Paddy Lasty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122532154#Comment_122532154

This is a generalisation entirely made up. You clearly haven't read the thread and all the actual facts that have been posted.

Your posts are a disgrace and you should be ashamed of them. Nothing but urban v rural vitriol. I live in Dublin the majority of my neighbours are from the country. It's the capital city it's not all just Dubliners.

gossamerfabric

You are addressing someone who has lived both rural and urban in Ireland and also elsewhere for decades. My posts aren't a disgrace but you take offence. I just simply am not willing to stand idly by while the Irish green activists show contempt for those who live peaceful sustainable lives in the country. It is all based on a deep seated prejudice for people from an agricultural background.

Busman Paddy Lasty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122532756#Comment_122532756

I'm not offended at all. I don't know what you are banging on about, green activists and agriculture on a thread about water supply. Has nothing to do with this thread, there are other threads for that.

You can expect plenty of pushback when you post all sorts of off topic stuff.

gossamerfabric

look, we don't want to see ye die of thirst even though ye choose to live in an unsustainable location like Dublin with a river which is little more than a trickle.

Here's what we can do out of the goodness of our hearts for our City cousins: while ye get your collective houses in order, cut out profligacy, plug your leaks in the infrastructure(that is what the meters were for), apply proper usage based billing with proper local funding, adjust billing to industry, we could possibly maybe at a push lay on a few trains from Athlone with water bowsers at times when your resevoirs are running low and drop some water up to Lucan at night.

This would only be for a short period of time to get youse out of a bind with the attention still being firmly on the local government learning how to make Dublin a sustainable city rather than them becoming accustomed to stealing the water belonging to others.

The home place where I am from has been self-sufficient since day 1 but it doesn't come without a cost. We maintain our water supply and ensure it doesn't become contaninated from effluent on-site or from neighbouring sites. The people of Dublin need to learn these survival skills…it isn't a little Viking settlement any more.

Just in the last few minutes the local news report is warning of low crop yields this year due to water shortage, limitations on use of fertilizer and pesticides. Rural Ireland shouldn't unwittingly leave itself short by trying to be the Boxer of this Animal Farm.

The Hydro dam already has to scale back generation at certain times of year so we know that the River is not an inexhaustable resource.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122532981#Comment_122532981

The water doesn’t belong to “others”.

gossamerfabric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122532993#Comment_122532993

Show me where the shannon and the border of Dublin intersect. While a dozing populace in the Midlands may not yet realise the costs of gifting water to Dublin they can be reminded of their best interests.

Never happen? What is the one example of successful public protest in Ireland in the last 2 decades? Have you forgotten about the water protests?

Busman Paddy Lasty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122532981#Comment_122532981

The water doesn't belong 'to others'. It belongs to the country, not a few randomers that live between the Shannon and Dublin. It may even belong to the ESB.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122533006#Comment_122533006

What has county boundaries got to do with anything?

Do the people of mayo own the Corrib gas?,

Do the people of Wexford own Rosslare Port?

Do the people of Tipperary own the Ardagh chalice?

gossamerfabric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122533020#Comment_122533020

Do you not feel conflicted in that you hold a belief that it belongs to the people while witnessing the profligacy of the Dublin Local Government with regard to its use? Seems to me your ire should be directed elsewhere.

Busman Paddy Lasty

Good point. Has Gossamer ever used the airport, DUB?

TRESSPASSER SCUM.

gossamerfabric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122533033#Comment_122533033

I've paid airport fees as part of my tickets to the multipl airports I use in Ireland and abroad. Call me old fashioned but I believe if you derive a benefit you shouldn't freeload or abuse a scarce resource. Last time I flew in to Kerry. Dublin is not the centre of the world.

Busman Paddy Lasty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122533038#Comment_122533038

So you paid airport fees, great. Is it OK to abstract from the Shannon if it is metered and payed for?

gossamerfabric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122533057#Comment_122533057

If the people on the banks of the Shannon go thirsty or crops fail or lose tourism business then it is not acceptable.

3Rs, reduce, re-use, recycle. Dubliners should reduce their usage. divert used water to another purpose if safe to do afterwards and recycle the water from the effluent treatment plants…then come to the people of rural Ireland if they still fall short.