Covid 19 Part XXI-27,908 in ROI (1,777 deaths) 6,647 in NI (559 deaths)(22/08)Read OP

Doctor Jimbob

hmmm wrote: »

There's no "wrong". It's a dangerous virus which spreads rapidly. We're trying to control it with primitive tools until we develop vaccines and treatments.

If this had been a hundred years ago we'd have large numbers of dead and injured by now, and the pandemic would be over.

That's what we were doing back in the spring/early summer. Now we're pussyfooting around the government's big industry pals while choosing targets for closure at random.

Our current approach is like putting a plaster on your hand to cure a headache.

LuasSimon

Larry Goodman is renting out his meat factories for indoor sports matchs .... he wants a million euro a week lodged to his accounts in Luxembourg!

completedit

My prediction is in 5 years time this whole event will be a case study in why we shouldn't always head the advice of people who have found themselves hungry on power, given the once in a generation opportunity to flaunt their credentials and dictate whole government policy, and also how from the top down, we were derailed and led into depression because of the hysteria of social media and crowds.

MickeyLeari

MickeyLeari wrote: »

It is a legitimate position to have in respect to closing border but we all know the political sensitivity In respect to NI and our position in the EU with the U.K. leaving.

But can you please be up front that the recent increases in cases are not related to travel.

You can do all you want about travel but if the internal risks are not managed we will not be able to eliminate the virus and the damage to our economy will be far disproportionate to the risk of the virus which can be managed through more conventional domestic measures.

I think you are confusing CAUSE and AFFECT. The cause of the numbers is imported cases and the effect is it will get into all those settings that we are seeing now which we saw back in April and May. The nursing homes, the meat plants, the offices, homes etc. You cannot keep it out of those places when it is in the community. Imported cases were 20 per cent of our total cases at one point.

Internal risks will sort themselves out when cases are low.
Why is there similar outbreaks in the North? Meat plants North and South didnt suddenly get slack in August. The cases in the countries increased. This virus here did originally come from another country.

Politicians North/South wil have to agree this policy when we are back in lockdown next month. Plenty of time then for them to come to joint zero covid agreement. We will have to suffer two lockdowns though because of our politicians and political difficulties north/south.

boggerman1

completedit wrote: »

My prediction is in 5 years time this whole event will be a case study in why we shouldn't always head the advice of people who have found themselves hungry on power enlisted with the responsibility of health and well-being during this pandemic and also how from the top down, we were derailed and led into depression because of the hysteria of social media and crowds.

Agree with this.the tribunal of enquiry in a couple of yrs time will be a **** show

MickeyLeari

There were serious strategic and tactical errors with this today. The Cabinet has a gun put to its head (and it was leaked - by whom?). This was panicked and will not deliver the necessary calm. the way things planned out today I would not be surprised if there were Ministers whatsapping journalists from the Cabinet meeting - what is going on?

They should have had a meeting between the Cabinet sub committee and key NPHET officials who would then be asked to look at specific measures targeted at the real risks and then come back with proper considered and tested proposals with clear reasoning and importantly give the PR people a chance to move on it.

This was a disaster which suits no one. Heads need to be knocked together to ensure this does not happen again.

maebee

ChikiChiki wrote: »

I'd take a month lockdown as well to be honest. We absolutely butchered this recovery.

Yes, I'm sure the "house parties" spiked us but the meat factories literally butchered us.

completedit

boggerman1 wrote: »

Agree with this.the tribunal of enquiry in a couple of yrs time will be a **** show

Only problem is they'll always have the cop out that they did what they had to do given the evidence available.

stephenjmcd

In the middle of this, tonight's HSE Operations report

20 covid paitents in hospital, up 2 on yesterday.

7 of the 20 paitents are in ICU, down 1 on yesterday, 4 on ventilators, no change.

1 covid case registered in hosptials today in South tipp

growleaves

Country of a billion people have less cases

Sure they do.

This proves the superiority of Xi's Leninist ideology.

I guess the Western imperialist running dogs have egg on their face. Who's laughing now?

Don't forget China's allies Vietnam and North Korea have also eliminated covid.

BorneTobyWilde

UK is clearly hiding the reality, and we are highlighting every single case possible. It's why we look bad, but come on, UK have pretty much ignored social distancing , packed out the beaches, huge protests so on, with no effect/ /? Bull

ACitizenErased

ACitizenErased wrote: »

The lack of action on travel is genuinely shocking considering how much they go on about numbers. There’s just as much a possibility of community transmission from people returning from abroad as there is from people who stayed here.

It's like we are trying to be good little Europeans to our European overlords. Is it they don't want to upset European bureaucrats or is it they are afraid lending institutions wouldn't lend to us as willingly if we took a stronger stance on border control.

It makes no sense to me, its like the barn door is lying wide open.

John O.Groats

ACitizenErased wrote: »

I’m a GAA member and also a massive soccer supporter, thank **** someone is sticking it up to them.
Michael Duignane, chairman of Offaly GAA was on the 6.01 earlier. Not a single case in lockdown-Offaly has been linked to GAA activities.

Are you implying that the GAA will refuse to follow the new Government rules? From first hand experience I can guarantee you they won`t. As a GAA member you should be well aware of that too.

The Unbearables

hmmm wrote: »

We don't know what the death toll will be if we let it run, and if the hospitals become overwhelmed (which would happen very quickly). We can lower the mortality rate now with top-class ICU care and drugs. Covid sends a large number of people to hospital - most of them we can treat easily with the right equipment if we have it. We also don't know what the long-term impacts are on people from infection.

I'm not an expert on this, but there is a clear consensus from those who are that this is a dangerous virus, and cannot be allowed spread unchecked.

Will you go on out of that with posts that makes sense. This thread is for outrage from amateurish hurlers on the ditch who know better than health professionals.

Ohmeha

Stheno wrote: »

keeping borders open
Not protecting nursing homes
No enforced quarantine

Posters/leaflets stating to the Irish public the softly softly gentle kind words approach of:

"Please wear a face covering/mask"
"It is recommended you should wear a face covering/mask"

Mandatory/Criminal Offence/Prosecution/Fines/Jail Sentence should have been the only language displayed and communicated to the public and enacted in enforceable law

Myramar

Leaving Cert


Just wait for this to turn into a cluster **k just like the UK.


Minister for health on RTE News at Nine:


Minister:

The system we have here is very different than in the UK.

Interviewer:

In What way ?

Minister:
Our system is subltly different.


Why can't we learn from everyone else's mistakes?

The Unbearables

The Unbearables wrote: »

Will you go on out of that with posts that makes sense. This thread is for outrage from amateurish hurlers on the ditch who know better than health professionals.

Nope that's the relaxation of restrictions thread your looking for.

completedit

The Unbearables wrote: »

Will you go on out of that with posts that makes sense. This thread is for outrage from amateurish hurlers on the ditch who know better than health professionals.

Clear consensus from health professionals when asked what would be the best course of action in a health emergency. That's their discipline. None of us are claiming to be immunologists. We, I believe, are people who accept risk. We believe that the measures taken far exceed the actual threat of this virus considering the available evidence. We believe that the longer these measures continue, the greater the economy will suffer which will lead to many negative outcomes.

landofthetree

Myramar wrote: »

Leaving Cert


Just wait for this to turn into a cluster **k just like the Uk.


Minister for health on RTE News at Nine:


Minister:

The system we have here is very different than in the UK.

Interviewer:

In What way ?

Minister:
Our system is subltly different.


Why can't we learn from everyone else's mistakes?

I hope this ends all the moaning around the LC every year about exam pressure.

The LC isnt perfect but its better than the alternatives.

LuasSimon

Why are meat factories , mushroom plants and other slave operations allowed remain open ?

Arghus

DubInMeath wrote: »

Nope that's the relaxation of restrictions thread your looking for.

There's a bit of overlap, but that thread is approximately ten times as demented.

Eod100

Not sure if this was posted before but looks like NPHET wanted 6 at weddings too. So inconsistencies seem to be Cabinet not accepting all measures.

Guess 6 would probably be legal minimum to have couple, celebrant/register and witnesses

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/new-guidance-on-wedding-guest-numbers-to-be-reviewed-1.4333531

Ohmeha

What a difference 3 weeks makes in terms of the 7 days numbers. Clearly panic today in NPHET and the government that we are on course to consistently exceed over 100+ cases per day within the next week that Dr. Cillian De Gascun flagged last month would be the likely figure we would be heading back to Phase 2

Day Month Date Cases 7 Day
Wednesday July 29th 14 18.29
Thursday July 30th 85 29.43
Friday July 31st 38 32.00
Saturday August 1st 45 35.00
Sunday August 2nd 53 40.86
Monday August 3rd 46 45.86
Tuesday August 4th 45 46.57
Wednesday August 5th 50 51.71
Thursday August 6th 69 49.43
Friday August 7th 98 58.00
Saturday August 8th 174 76.43
Sunday August 9th 68 78.57
Monday August 10th 57 80.14
Tuesday August 11th 35 78.71
Wednesday August 12th 40 77.29
Thursday August 13th 92 80.57
Friday August 14th 67 76.14
Saturday August 15th 200 79.86
Sunday August 16th 66 79.57
Monday August 17th 56 79.43
Tuesday August 18th 190 101.57

Charles Babbage

LuasSimon wrote: »

Why are meat factories , mushroom plants and other slave operations allowed remain open ?

Because people like steak and mushrooms?

Arghus

Arghus wrote: »

There's a bit of overlap, but that thread is approximately ten times as demented.

Exactly that why I pointed them to it. A good partial example of why we are where we are.

CIARAN_BOYLE

LuasSimon wrote: »

Why are meat factories , mushroom plants and other slave operations allowed remain open ?

I guess food is an essential?

Eod100

Letter from CMO to Donnelly here and past ones. Not sure is it a formatting thing but can't seem to search PDF. Or are they making it difficult for journalists..!

https://www.gov.ie/en/collection/ba4aa0-letters-from-the-cmo-to-the-minister-for-health/#august

ChikiChiki

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

UK is clearly hiding the reality, and we are highlighting every single case possible. It's why we look bad, but come on, UK have pretty much ignored social distancing , packed out the beaches, huge protests so on, with no effect/ /? Bull

I noticed Sky and BBC have stories about our spike and restrictions this evening.

the incredible pudding

growleaves wrote: »

Don't forget China's allies Vietnam

You don't know much about Vietnam if you think they consider themselves allies with China.

LuasSimon

LuasSimon wrote: »

Why are meat factories , mushroom plants and other slave operations allowed remain open ?

So farmers don't shoot their animals when they run out of money to feed them

caveat emptor

MickeyLeari wrote: »

There were serious strategic and tactical errors with this today. The Cabinet has a gun put to its head (and it was leaked - by whom?). This was panicked and will not deliver the necessary calm. the way things planned out today I would not be surprised if there were Ministers whatsapping journalists from the Cabinet meeting - what is going on?

They should have had a meeting between the Cabinet sub committee and key NPHET officials who would then be asked to look at specific measures targeted at the real risks and then come back with proper considered and tested proposals with clear reasoning and importantly give the PR people a chance to move on it.

This was a disaster which suits no one. Heads need to be knocked together to ensure this does not happen again.

Obviously by FG as part of strategy to undermine MM (which isn't exactly hard).
Their absence from the press conference was very telling and damning in my opinion.

You seem to know an awful lot about PR.

What are your thoughts on comparisons between trumps build a wall and Michael O'Leary's build a wall between NI and ROI unless you let me fly strategy.

I personally don't think it'll fly with the people.

MickeyLeari

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think you are confusing CAUSE and AFFECT. The cause of the numbers is imported cases and the effect is it will get into all those settings that we are seeing now which we saw back in April and May. The nursing homes, the meat plants, the offices, homes etc. You cannot keep it out of those places when it is in the community. Imported cases were 20 per cent of our total cases at one point.

Internal risks will sort themselves out when cases are low.
Why is there similar outbreaks in the North? Meat plants North and South didnt suddenly get slack in August. The cases in the countries increased. This virus here did originally come from another country.

Politicians North/South wil have to agree this policy when we are back in lockdown next month. Plenty of time then for them to come to joint zero covid agreement. We will have to suffer two lockdowns though because of our politicians and political difficulties north/south.

I think what you are referring to is “Cause and Effect”. After that it is theoretical and completely naive.

theballz

Time to get Leo and Simon back

LuasSimon

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I guess food is an essential?

Or Larry Goodman can do what he wants ?

caveat emptor

Ohmeha wrote: »

What a difference 3 weeks makes in terms of the 7 days numbers. Clearly panic today in NPHET and the government that we are on course to consistently exceed over 100+ cases per day within the next week that Dr. Cillian De Gascun flagged last month would be the likely figure we would be heading back to Phase 2

Day Month Date Cases 7 Day
Wednesday July 29th 14 18.29
Thursday July 30th 85 29.43
Friday July 31st 38 32.00
Saturday August 1st 45 35.00
Sunday August 2nd 53 40.86
Monday August 3rd 46 45.86
Tuesday August 4th 45 46.57
Wednesday August 5th 50 51.71
Thursday August 6th 69 49.43
Friday August 7th 98 58.00
Saturday August 8th 174 76.43
Sunday August 9th 68 78.57
Monday August 10th 57 80.14
Tuesday August 11th 35 78.71
Wednesday August 12th 40 77.29
Thursday August 13th 92 80.57
Friday August 14th 67 76.14
Saturday August 15th 200 79.86
Sunday August 16th 66 79.57
Monday August 17th 56 79.43
Tuesday August 18th 160 97.29

Seriously what is the explanation for 57,35,92,67,200,66,56,160.
They definitely held results back for some PR reason.

It would save a lot of people a lot of time tying

• "fantastic numbers"
• "we clearly have this under control"

And frustration when it's announced.

• "190! your granny is now under house arrest"

Doctor Jimbob

LuasSimon wrote: »

Or Larry Goodman can do what he wants ?

No it must be about food. Sure all we eat is meat and mushrooms. The fact there's a connection with Goodman is purely coincidental.

KrustyUCC

Eod100 wrote: »

Not sure if this was posted before but looks like NPHET wanted 6 at weddings too. So inconsistencies see to be Cabinet accepting all measures.

Guess 6 would probably be legal minimum to have couple, celebrant/register and witnesses

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/new-guidance-on-wedding-guest-numbers-to-be-reviewed-1.4333531

That's laughable

NPHET definitely going for hysteria with their recommendations

Beasty

The Unbearables wrote: »

Will you go on out of that with posts that makes sense. This thread is for outrage from amateurish hurlers on the ditch who know better than health professionals.

Threadbanned

fritzelly

theballz wrote: »

Time to get Leo and Simon back

Anything would be better than Bungle and Zippy

Eod100

Watching Prime Time back for my sins, Donnelly saying we're doing better than NZ on testing turnaround.. Not sure I'd be making a comparison with them, they're doing much better than us!

Myramar

fritzelly wrote: »

Anything would be better than Bungle and Zippy

I would prefer Simon and Simon

Ohmeha

Ohmeha wrote: »

What a difference 3 weeks makes in terms of the 7 days numbers. Clearly panic today in NPHET and the government that we are on course to consistently exceed over 100+ cases per day within the next week that Dr. Cillian De Gascun flagged last month would be the likely figure we would be heading back to Phase 2

Day Month Date Cases 7 Day
Wednesday July 29th 14 18.29
Thursday July 30th 85 29.43
Friday July 31st 38 32.00
Saturday August 1st 45 35.00
Sunday August 2nd 53 40.86
Monday August 3rd 46 45.86
Tuesday August 4th 45 46.57
Wednesday August 5th 50 51.71
Thursday August 6th 69 49.43
Friday August 7th 98 58.00
Saturday August 8th 174 76.43
Sunday August 9th 68 78.57
Monday August 10th 57 80.14
Tuesday August 11th 35 78.71
Wednesday August 12th 40 77.29
Thursday August 13th 92 80.57
Friday August 14th 67 76.14
Saturday August 15th 200 79.86
Sunday August 16th 66 79.57
Monday August 17th 56 79.43
Tuesday August 18th 190 101.57

We are there already. Leo talked about moving up and down phases like it was like hitting a switch. You can't just reimpose restrictions like that on society. Politicians will not like doing it and people won't stand for it. We in all seriousness need another lockdown as our r number is nowhere near 1 and has not been for a long time.

MOR316

KrustyUCC wrote: »

That's laughable

NPHET definitely going for hysteria with their recommendations

Well, it's worked. Elderly relative of mine, who think you don't need to wear a mask over your nose, have lost their ****.

"Young people and their house parties started all this"
"Shut down the bars and restaurants"
"We're all going to die"

And then moans that they can't go for a coffee, even though they can & the reality is they just don't want to queue up

Actually feel like throwing myself into a canal after listening to them and that's no exaggeration

MickeyLeari

caveat emptor wrote: »

Obviously by FG as part of strategy to undermine MM (which isn't exactly hard).
Their absence from the press conference was very telling and damning in my opinion.

You seem to know an awful lot about PR.

What are your thoughts on comparisons between trumps build a wall and Michael O'Leary's build a wall between NI and ROI unless you let me fly strategy.

I personally don't think it'll fly with the people.

There is no way we will be able to have a border shutdown and to have an IE-UK aligned strategy on zero-Covid.

We need a sensible strategy at the airports which includes testing (focused, random and voluntary), advance electronic passenger locator details (airlines to facilitate) and a clear narrative. I would be happy enough to restrict travel from certain high risk non-EU locations but we need to weigh up public health and long term economic considerations (discourage tourists but be open to business people with clean 72 hour test results)

We need a solution which will proactively manage risk and one which is consistent with an overall EU approach. It may not be the Silver bullet solution people want but far better than the current finger wagging peer pressure.

But most of all the known domestic risks need to be managed. Balls were dropped and there was a huge amount of complacency. We reopened elements of the economy and closed down our defences.

Plumbthedepths

MOR316 wrote: »

Well, it's worked. Elderly relative of mine, who think you don't need to wear a mask over your nose, have lost their ****.

"Young people and their house parties started all this"
"Shut down the bars and restaurants"
"We're all going to die"

And then moans that they can't go for a coffee, even though they can & the reality is they just doesn't want to queue up

Actually feel like throwing myself into a canal after listening to them and that's no exaggeration

Young people and house parties get the blame, meat factories and direct provision let off the hook. There is legislation to control the workplace which was flouted the state is responsible for conditions in direct provision. Yet it was the young and their natural desire to socialise that gets the blame. Fair play to whom ever in government that managed to shift the focus. Excellent job.

Gael23

Will people take any notice of avoiding public transport?

KrustyUCC

MOR316 wrote: »

Well, it's worked. Elderly relative of mine, who think you don't need to wear a mask over your nose, have lost their ****.

"Young people and their house parties started all this"
"Shut down the bars and restaurants"
"We're all going to die"

And then moans that they can't go for a coffee, even though they can & the reality is they just doesn't want to queue up

Actually feel like throwing myself into a canal after listening to them and that's no exaggeration

Awful experience for you

Feels like the doom and gloom just before any bank holidays

Behave yourselves or else

No acknowledgement that the vast vast majority have always behaved themselves

stephenjmcd

Gael23 wrote: »

Will people take any notice of avoiding public transport?

Nope, into the office tomorrow morning on it.

The work from home where possible advise was always still current anyway

hmmm

Eod100 wrote: »

Letter from CMO to Donnelly here and past ones. Not sure is it a formatting thing but can't seem to search PDF. Or are they making it difficult for journalists..!

https://www.gov.ie/en/collection/ba4aa0-letters-from-the-cmo-to-the-minister-for-health/#august

It's a pity more people don't take the time to read these. Explains the rationale.

I wish they would give more background information behind lines like "more clusters relating to sporting activities". It would help calm the hysteria.

Also - that's not Comic Sans is it?

BringBackMick

The government are playing this ultra safe but IMO are being too cautious.

The lack of authority and direction is really damaging morale.

Most other countries in Europe are living normal lives without COVID obsessions

It is only when you step out of the madness in Ireland you realise in other countries life is not driven by this COVID hysteria.

We have a serious problem and need to snap out of it for the good of all our mental health.

It is time for tough decisions not ultra cautious stagnation.