Covid 19 Part XXI-27,908 in ROI (1,777 deaths) 6,647 in NI (559 deaths)(22/08)Read OP

the corpo

Hurrache wrote: »

Reality is that kids will have been mixing it up all summer anyway, either through out playing together, summer camps or sports training. I imagine the lead up to schools opening is to limit the number of community cases so that there'll be less to spread once they come together in school again.

Many kids have been mixing but almost all of it has been outdoors. We locked down so swiftly that we don't have evidence in Ireland how the disease will spread inside our cramped and unventilated classrooms. I can't think it'll be like anything other than throwing a load of bangers into a keg of dynamite.

For a government that has been so draconionally (sp?) cautious in most people's eyes, to throw that caution to the wind and so bullishly insist on a full reopening is utterly bizarre.

With a phased return we could get through a school reopening to the benefit of everyone.

plodder

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Appearently not this time

"New laws will now be drafted in consultation with the Attorney General and will require approval by the Dáil, which is not due to meet until 15 September."

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0819/1159959-covid-19-enforcement-ag/

Well that won't be a good look, if they wait until 15 September.

lucernarian

lucernarian wrote: »

Lol, what ridiculous points. You're forgetting how the outbreak happened and Xi Jinping did nothing while doctors who reported the epidemic were jailed instead. You're saying a president for life has earned his people a more prosperous life? Give me a ****ing break.

Your points in no way contradict a single thing I wrote. In fact they are in no way relevant to what I wrote, so who knows what you are talking about

owlbethere

caveat emptor wrote: »

Most kids don't get sick but cases are rising and hospitalisations are rising in US.
Shouldn't be ignored and safety needs to be paramount with schools situation.

https://twitter.com/cgtnamerica/status/1295839136390057984?s=20

The NPHET are due to discuss covid and children this week, probably ahead of schools. It does look like they will be pushing for schools to reopen. I don't know why. We will all be locked down again by October because of others sh1tting on the guidelines and making up their own rules. Many parents will refuse to keep their children at home with 'just the sniffles' completely forgetting the sniffles could be the start of a covid situation. The health authorities have also failed us. Other countries can get testing and results back within 24 hours, we are taking longer.

robbiezero

plodder wrote: »

Well that won't be a good look, if they wait until 15 September.

Don't the latest "measures" expire on 13 September?

Doctor Jimbob

Hurrache wrote: »

You're preaching to the converted, I was the sponge for any bug or virus entering our house using the kids as a means of transport. Thankfully not so much of an issue anymore as they got older.

The difference between schools/pubs is that kids will play in their own area, on their own greens, train with their own teams who for the most part are neighbours and school mates anyway. It's essentially a big community bubble.

Pubs, you have people coming from everywhere and essentially communities mixing.

Maybe the difference in my view comes from growing up in a very rural area. What you're saying about schools is true in towns, but where I went to school there would be children coming in from 5 or 6 villages in a 20 mile radius, but I'd hardly see kids from outside my own village over the holidays. The local pubs on the other hand were mostly populated by people from about 20 minutes walk away.

I realise that's not the majority of people's experience though and my opinion may be being clouded by that.

plodder

robbiezero wrote: »

Don't the latest "measures" expire on 13 September?

Most current measures can be renewed by a ministerial SI.

GooglePlus

robbiezero wrote: »

Don't the latest "measures" expire on 13 September?

I'd take that with a pinch of salt. If anything, expect further measures not a roll back.

the corpo

Really good thread from Elaine Doyle on the lack of clarity in our daily stats and how it relates to school reopening.

We're trying to figure out if it's safe to start opening schools next week.

And right now, from what I can tell, the single most useful figure for that - a rolling weekly average of community transmission in Ireland - doesn't seem to be easily and publicly available.

https://twitter.com/laineydoyle/status/1295883177429553153

LuasSimon

Watched workers trudging into local meat factory earlier this morning , pretty sure they are all from Latvia. Most seemed drowned to the skin walking in from a nearby town and by the expressions on their faces looked as if they were entering prison for the day . Their cloths indicate they havent a washer but at least they are making lots of money for Larry Goodman. sad to see such a slave operation in modern day ireland.

leavingirl

leavingirl wrote: »

No longer a conspiracy theory. Hitler would be proud!

https://www.thejournal.ie/australia-covid-vaccine-5179559-Aug2020/?utm_source=twitter_short

Oh God

is_that_so

robbiezero wrote: »

Don't the latest "measures" expire on 13 September?

It seem to be a feature of this to announce then apply regulations quite some time afterwards. It was the same back in April with Harris and Garda powers. They will need time to draft legislation anyway in this case.

is_that_so

the corpo wrote: »

Really good thread from Elaine Doyle on the lack of clarity in our daily stats and how it relates to school reopening.




https://twitter.com/laineydoyle/status/1295883177429553153

That 101 come under being investigated. We've had that with these larger numbers recently.

copeyhagen

is_that_so wrote: »

That 101 come under being investigated. We've had that with these larger numbers recently.

why investigated? why do they claim they are cases if theyre being investigated? scare mongering?

is_that_so

copeyhagen wrote: »

why investigated? why do they claim they are cases if theyre being investigated? scare mongering?

Because they haven't determined if they are linked to current clusters, a new cluster or are random community spread at the time the figures are released daily.

Christy42

copeyhagen wrote: »

why investigated? why do they claim they are cases if theyre being investigated? scare mongering?

I believe they mean the cause of the cases is under investigation. Not that they are cases.

Living Off The Splash

is_that_so wrote: »

That 101 come under being investigated. We've had that with these larger numbers recently.

We often hear that there were 46 cases in Dublin etc.....but we never get a break down of where exactly in Dublin. Also do they actually know if these were transmitted by people visiting, supermarkets, hairdressers, dentists, clubs, walking the street etc

It would be good to know.

I was looking at a map of the cases in Hong Kong. On the map they actually give the name of the building where the case occurred. They tell if it is a case within the past 14 days or outside 14 days. They even give the job description of the person who was sick.

MickeyLeari

Living Off The Splash wrote: »

We often hear that there were 46 cases in Dublin etc.....but we never get a break down of where exactly in Dublin. Also do they actually know if these were transmitted by people visiting, supermarkets, hairdressers, dentists, clubs, walking the street etc

It would be good to know.

I was looking at a map of the cases in Hong Kong. On the map they actually give the name of the building where the case occurred. They tell if it is a case within the past 14 days or outside 14 days. They even give the job description of the person who was sick.

I am not sure we want to go down that route.

plodder

Stephen Donnelly was on the other night about how they were caught on the hop with the current outbreaks regarding contact tracing. How is that an acceptable excuse? Surely, if it means paying people to sit around or be on on-call at half a day's notice to do this important work, it's better to pay that price.

is_that_so

Living Off The Splash wrote: »

We often hear that there were 46 cases in Dublin etc.....but we never get a break down of where exactly in Dublin. Also do they actually know if these were transmitted by people visiting, supermarkets, hairdressers, dentists, clubs, walking the street etc

It would be good to know.

I was looking at a map of the cases in Hong Kong. On the map they actually give the name of the building where the case occurred. They tell if it is a case within the past 14 days or outside 14 days. They even give the job description of the person who was sick.

We are not Hong Kong. They'll never give data that can possibly identify people. We do get broad strokes on where they are coming from - currently mostly workplace and household spread.

Hurrache

MickeyLeari wrote: »

I am not sure we want to go down that route.

No doubt it will lead to stupidity similar to paediatricians being attacked for being paedophiles.

all about the mane

LuasSimon wrote: »

Watched workers trudging into local meat factory earlier this morning , pretty sure they are all from Latvia. Most seemed drowned to the skin walking in from a nearby town and by the expressions on their faces looked as if they were entering prison for the day . Their cloths indicate they havent a washer but at least they are making lots of money for Larry Goodman. sad to see such a slave operation in modern day ireland.

Shut up and eat your sausages!;)

Living Off The Splash

MickeyLeari wrote: »

I am not sure we want to go down that route.

But who decides this? They don't have to give personal details.

Looking at a large group of Deliveroo/Just Eat delivery people congregating outside a particular restaurant in Dublin the other day just got me thinking about all the community outbreaks that are being investigated and how they are occurring.

Why are they advising people not to use public transport. Is there something that they are not telling us?

tigger123

plodder wrote: »

Stephen Donnelly was on the other night about how they were caught on the hop with the current outbreaks regarding contact tracing. How is that an acceptable excuse? Surely, if it means paying people to sit around or be on on-call at half a day's notice to do this important work, it's better to pay that price.

It's not about money, its about staffing. While you have health care staff sitting around doing nothing waiting for an emergency to break out, other health services and patients are being neglected.

khalessi

Considering schools are reopening, should they not include children treated in hospitals as inpatients and in A/E with covid19 in the breakdown of numbers. Yes there won't be many of them but will give us some smidgen of an idea of spread amongst children.

is_that_so

Living Off The Splash wrote: »

But who decides this? They don't have to give personal details.

Doctors would anyway on the grounds of confidentiality but if even the slightest possibility of identification exist it becomes a part of a much bigger total. We had in the east, south etc., in the early days.

Why are they advising people not to use public transport. Is there something that they are not telling us?

Not really. It's part of that limit your contacts message along with asking companies to allow people to WFH

MD1990

Do they think that Schools is some magic place where the virus wont spread.

Teachers over 50 must be concerned seems there are under big pressure to go back.
It makes no sense to not allow people go the sports events outdoors up to 19 times less risk but schools are going back where the virus will spread the only question is how bady it will go wrong.

tigger123

Living Off The Splash wrote: »

But who decides this? They don't have to give personal details.

Looking at a large group of Deliveroo/Just Eat delivery people congregating outside a particular restaurant in Dublin the other day just got me thinking about all the community outbreaks that are being investigated and how they are occurring.

Why are they advising people not to use public transport. Is there something that they are not telling us?

People are being advised against public transport as it is a number of people from different households in the same confined space.

is_that_so

Faith Fancy Lava wrote: »

Have a weekend away booked with friends next weekend (rescheduled from April no less). Obviously with new restrictions this isn't allowed as we'll have more than 3 people from 3 different households. Should I wait for the company who own the holiday home to cancel on me?

Your call I'd say but Martin did encourage people to go ahead with "staycations".

landofthetree

Cant wait till austerity starts. :mad:

The very people who cant do what's required will be crying for a decade about austerity.

:rolleyes:

is_that_so

MD1990 wrote: »

Do they think that Schools is some magic place where the virus wont spread.

Teachers over 50 must be concerned seems there are under big pressure to go back.
It makes no sense to not allow people go the sports events outdoors up to 19 times less risk but schools are going back where the virus will spread the only question is how badly it will go wrong.

No, they don't but they can control the environment, with numbers and other measures. Schools do have to open. It's less about the sports events than socialising before and after.

caveat emptor

copeyhagen wrote: »

why investigated? why do they claim they are cases if theyre being investigated? scare mongering?

I find the opposite. The amount of posts about how "low" community transmission is every day when in fact it has not been concluded and every day the number will end up being much larger than that reported on the day.

https://twitter.com/WilliamsJon/status/1295984203440455682?s=20

plodder

tigger123 wrote: »

It's not about money, its about staffing. While you have health care staff sitting around doing nothing waiting for an emergency to break out, other health services and patients are being neglected.

Contact tracing doesn't need to be done by front-line clinical staff surely? Could a call centre not do it, or most of the time-consuming aspect of it at least?

is_that_so

caveat emptor wrote: »

I find the opposite. The amount of posts about how "low" community transmission is every day when in fact it has not been concluded and every day the number will end up being much larger than that reported on the day.

https://twitter.com/WilliamsJon/status/1295984203440455682?s=20

He has also said that community spread is a low proportion of cases and not the current driver of cases.

Oranage2

is_that_so wrote: »

Your call I'd say but Martin did encourage people to go ahead with "staycations".

Didn't glynn say something about not using hotels?

The messages were so mixed I still haven't got a handle on everything, did they ever say whether the 6 rule applied to cinemas?

TheRiverman

Just reading that the Government have to seek advice from the Attorney General regarding the enforcement powers for the Gardai.It then has to be approved by the Dail which is not due to meet until September 15.Surely this is crazy and that legislation should already be there,ready to go when new restrictions are announced.As of now people can party away in private houses uninhibited for the next four weeks.

is_that_so

Oranage2 wrote: »

Didn't glynn say something about not using hotels?

The messages were so mixed I still haven't got a handle on everything, did they ever say whether the 6 rule applied to cinemas?

All I heard him say is that gyms are open but classes in them down to 6. If you read the NPHET letter it doesn't say anything about about hotels, but they are subject to distancing rules anyway.

average_runner

is_that_so wrote: »

No, they don't but they can control the environment, with numbers and other measures. Schools do have to open. It's less about the sports events than socialising before and after.

There isn't socialising at our kids sport events, parents collect kids and head off.

Most kids sports will go ahead, as alot of indoor sports like gymnastics are down as businesses so can go ahead.

Kids gaa is in pods already, not sure how matches will work though, but the government said they can behind close doors

stargazer 68

Oranage2 wrote: »

Didn't glynn say something about not using hotels?

The messages were so mixed I still haven't got a handle on everything, did they ever say whether the 6 rule applied to cinemas?

Surely they would be closed if that was the case. Heading on a staycation next weekend and unless they lock the county down its a road trip for us!

Lillyfae

is_that_so wrote: »

Pretty much where we were with pubs a few weeks ago. Nobody will remember these measures but there'll be a long memory of schools not reopening. I fully expect some cases out of schools but if they've worked it out properly in individual schools that should be minimised.

But this is the problem. Some schools have been flat out all summer trying to work out the safest way to do things. Some did a bit to save face. Some have done absolutely nothing. Parents seem to have had little or no update as to what is going on at all.

seamus

Oranage2 wrote: »

Didn't glynn say something about not using hotels?

The messages were so mixed I still haven't got a handle on everything, did they ever say whether the 6 rule applied to cinemas?

Yes. When questioned about what the advice meant for over-70s and whether they should stay at home, he was trying to reiterate the call to limit social contacts, and inadvertently said that maybe going to a hotel instead of a rented house should be avoided.

I cringed a bit. Summed up by someone I follow on Twitter yesterday - Glynn sounded like he was put into the position of defending measures when he had advised very different ones. He didn't sound too convincing because he wasn't convinced himself.

Holohan always had a good way of spinning answers so that you knew what was NPHET advice and what was a government decision, and he was never forced to defend an idea he hadn't advised. Glynn is just that bit less experienced.

KrustyUCC

tigger123 wrote: »

People are being advised against public transport as it is a number of people from different households in the same confined space.

All wearing masks though so that should stop any potential spread

is_that_so

average_runner wrote: »

There isn't socialising at our kids sport events, parents collect kids and head off.

Most kids sports will go ahead, as alot of indoor sports like gymnastics are down as businesses so can go ahead.

Kids gaa is in pods already, not sure how matches will work though, but the government said they can behind close doors

Yeah, but it isn't kids that they are talking about. Cases in the sports clubs have raised flags in terms of socialising.

stargazer 68

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53826957

According to the BBC we are at 'tipping point' !!

is_that_so

Lillyfae wrote: »

But this is the problem. Some schools have been flat out all summer trying to work out the safest way to do things. Some did a bit to save face. Some have done absolutely nothing. Parents seem to have had little or no update as to what is going on at all.

No argument from me on that. Do teachers?

ThunbergsAreGo

LuasSimon wrote: »

Watched workers trudging into local meat factory earlier this morning , pretty sure they are all from Latvia. Most seemed drowned to the skin walking in from a nearby town and by the expressions on their faces looked as if they were entering prison for the day . Their cloths indicate they havent a washer but at least they are making lots of money for Larry Goodman. sad to see such a slave operation in modern day ireland.

This needs to stop. Latvia is in the EU, they are free to leave any time they want.

I worked with some Latvians in the IT sector, well paid, but sent the vast majority of this money back home (registered as a contractor there and paid no tax here) with the idea to retire in a few years. He now has a few properties there and has no need to work.

Now meat packing isnt IT, but the minimum wage in Ireland is a decent salary for Latvia (where they are sending their money), they also likely arent paying any tax in Ireland (if the IT sector is to go on) - they would be in as independent contractors - which is why there are no sick days etc.

Forcing companies to employ workers directly would likely end up costing them money as opposed to the current arrangement.

Its not a slave operation, its people that are free to go at any point making a choice.

MD1990

is_that_so wrote: »

No, they don't but they can control the environment, with numbers and other measures. Schools do have to open. It's less about the sports events than socialising before and after.

How can they. Children don't develop symptoms in most cases & probably wont socially distance either. Not enough testing
They cant control the environment. Indoors will cause spread.

Sports events are important for many people's mental health are outdoors 19 times safer & not caused an outbreak unlike the meat plants which are indoors.

We will be in total lockdown now in October thanks to the insistence for schools to go back while they can do their classes online.

I think schools should be online but have extra PE classes outdoors & have schools sports teams go ahead so they have some social interaction.

average_runner

Oranage2 wrote: »

Didn't glynn say something about not using hotels?

The messages were so mixed I still haven't got a handle on everything, did they ever say whether the 6 rule applied to cinemas?

Would trust hotels more to clean their rooms properly than an air bnb

Lillyfae

is_that_so wrote: »

No argument from me on that. Do teachers?

Again, patchy from what I can gather.

average_runner

is_that_so wrote: »

Yeah, but it isn't kids that they are talking about. Cases in the sports clubs have raised flags in terms of socialising.

How many cases is that?