Covid 19 Part XXI-27,908 in ROI (1,777 deaths) 6,647 in NI (559 deaths)(22/08)Read OP

Patrick2010

Limiting the numbers going to sporting events is crazy saying theres congregation before and after games. All they had to do is people queuing to get in wears a mask and stays two meters apart. Inside the ground everyone not in a family group stays well apart.
Theres more congregation in my local shopping centre than there would be at a ground with people entering and leaving. They wouldn't even be in each others company for the 15 minutes that designates a close contact.
Shamrock Rovers wrote to all their season ticket holders asking them to nominate a seat. They would then be emailed a seat ticket and they would have to sit there.
It would be very easy to allow 200 or even 500 in and enforce social distancing. In bigger grounds it would be even easier.

average_runner

road_high wrote: »

Where you hear that?! Sweet Jesus, I’d love to know all the juicy details

Heard from a friend that Leo said you dont implement everything without a proper meeting with all, see what is realistic etc.

Last night meeting was full of inconsistencies

average_runner

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

No, something as common as tonsillitis would cause fever and sore throat and could easily be misread as covid initially.

We are going through this with the youngest. Every 3 weeks throat infection. Down to see consultant in sept

lee_baby_simms

average_runner wrote: »

We are going through this with the youngest. Every 3 weeks throat infection. Down to see consultant in sept

Nightmare. What age?

I had constant tonsillitis, at least 3 times every winter from age 17 to 21. Had to repeat leaving cert year because of it.

It eventually stopped but I was ready to have them removed.

Patrick2010

polesheep wrote: »

And I think we just need to make sure that the hospitals can cope.

Restrictions were relaxed a couple of months ago and as of last week in the whole Ireland there were 21 people in hospitals with Covid. I think they're coping fine.

average_runner

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

Nightmare. What age?

I had constant tonsillitis, at least 3 times every winter from age 17 to 21. Had to repeat leaving cert year because of it.

It eventually stopped but I was ready to have them removed.

He is 7. Doc on top of it and school were told. Teacher working on a plan for him also.

lee_baby_simms

average_runner wrote: »

He is 7. Doc on top of it and school were told. Teacher working on a plan for him also.

Good to hear. Theres plenty of options to manage it anyway, getting them out being the final one.

wadacrack

wadacrack wrote: »

No, hayfever is pretty common. High pollen count in the last few weeks also

Would not expect to see a fever with hay fever though.

Living Off The Splash

What is the difference between community transmission and unknown transmission?

Most of the unknown transmissions could end up being community transmission but this is only discovered weeks later?

lee_baby_simms

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

Nightmare. What age?

I had constant tonsillitis, at least 3 times every winter from age 17 to 21. Had to repeat leaving cert year because of it.

It eventually stopped but I was ready to have them removed.

Same as that - every year from 8 to 12, I missed at least 3 weeks of school with tonsillitis. Was going to be put on the list for removal, but all of a sudden they just stopped. Only I had it once since when I was 30. Is strange though, before the last bout I never had any hay fever symptoms, but since I get it at various levels every year. Must be some autoimmune factor in there.

lee_baby_simms

Deleted User wrote: »

Is strange though, before the last bout I never had any hay fever symptoms, but since I get it at various levels every year. Must be some autoimmune factor in there.

Funny you mention that. I developed psoriasis when I first suffered from tonsillitis. Still have it today. I also suffer chronic sinus allergies throughout the year. Both related to an autoimmune issue I believe.

caveat emptor

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Politics is a funny game,
Leo an absolute c*nt but because he speaks well he makes the masses feel at ease ,
Himself and Martin could stand up there and tell us the same bad news but because he is better at communicating people would feel more at ease,

Also it wouldn't surprise me if Leo saw the outrage on twitter after last nights press conference and started the rumour he walked out , he plays the game very well,

The current government are like a car sales man on his first day with all the "eh eh "
Leo is the seasoned pro who can sell a tennis mam a 3 liter Range Rover as a run around and she thinks she got a great deal ,

He's transparent at this stage. The FF FG fight to the death is on. There can be only one civil war party. Imagine this went on 3 years and it morphed into open everything up vs zerocovid. It could lead to the birth of two new totally ****e parties. Strange times.

We don't have an effective opposition.

italodisco

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Would not expect to see a fever with hay fever though.

Laryngitis, pharyngitis, sinusitis.... All very common. My gp said he has seen a huge drop in them since this started as people are being overly cautious and alot are not packed into the office / schools together.

But he did have a concern about the testing set up as he envisages quite high numbers of the above illnesses into autumn and winter and the panic that will be triggered off will overwhelm testing centres

The cold season will be Interesting, people walking around coughing and sneezing blowing their noses, people panicking and running from them. It will be hard to know who to run from lol

caveat emptor

Deleted User wrote: »

If you have a cough and a fever now it really couldn't be anything other than covid? Would that be right as we haven't hit flu season yet.

Check this out. It the symptom combinations and frequencies. i.e 5 people had sore throat + runny nose. 2 people had fever etc. Nice visualisation that shows how fvcked up the symptoms are.

The red dots are all symptom combinations that don't include fever (yellow)
i.e all the people we missed in march/April on purpose I guess as we didn't have capacity to test them.

Interesting 113 people just had a runny nose!

ACitizenErased

Myramar wrote: »

Can you explain?

You seem to be questioning the statistics produced by the Dept of Health and the HSE.
Do you Think they are lies?.
These are the statistics from the same sources that you reproduce here on a daily basis and that represent the basis for your "informed opinions".
Are they solid statistics when you like the numbers but become "Lies" when they disagree with your narrative?

31 positive tests yesterday, 130 positive swabs held back from Friday, Saturday, Sunday + whatever leftovers coming from private testing labs (why???) - so yes I do have the numbers to back it up.

Leftwaffe

I normally get sick once or twice a year with a cold and go into work refardless. Im a teacher. Not looking forward to the whole debacle that's going to bring in relation work, home, testing, etc.

What Username Guidelines

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Politics is a funny game,
Leo an absolute c*nt but because he speaks well he makes the masses feel at ease ,
Himself and Martin could stand up there and tell us the same bad news but because he is better at communicating people would feel more at ease,

Also it wouldn't surprise me if Leo saw the outrage on twitter after last nights press conference and started the rumour he walked out , he plays the game very well,

The current government are like a car sales man on his first day with all the "eh eh "
Leo is the seasoned pro who can sell a tennis mam a 3 liter Range Rover as a run around and she thinks she got a great deal ,

And frustratingly, Leo is exactly what we need. We need the public to back the government and that can be achieved through good communication. I'm no fan of Leo, but he was able to calmly put out a message, and whether we liked it or not we at least saw some logic. Even if it's completely bonkers, you'd rather have Leo levelling with you as opposed to Michael stuttering and getting snippy with journalists.

KrustyUCC

ACitizenErased wrote: »

31 positive tests yesterday, 130 positive swabs held back from Friday, Saturday, Sunday + whatever leftovers coming from private testing labs (why???) - so yes I do have the numbers to back it up.

Funny that nobody in the media has picked up on the large numbers being held back for the big announcement

KrustyUCC

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

And frustratingly, Leo is exactly what we need. We need the public to back the government and that can be achieved through good communication. I'm no fan of Leo, but he was able to calmly put out a message, and whether we liked it or not we at least saw some logic. Even if it's completely bonkers, you'd rather have Leo levelling with you as opposed to Michael stuttering and getting snippy with journalists.

Fair point

Martin couldnt even read his script properly yesterday

Just raced through his speech

Drumpot

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

I normally get sick once or twice a year with a cold and go into work refardless. Im a teacher. Not looking forward to the whole debacle that's going to bring in relation work, home, testing, etc.

I normally get sick annually aswell. But been taking VIT C,D and Zinc since February. It’s not a panacea but interested to see if it helps. I’ve been getting nasty bouts (pneumonia, bronchitis, flu) so even if I get a not so bad dose of something it will be worth it.

ACitizenErased

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Funny that nobody in the media has picked up on the large numbers being held back for the big announcement

The most unsettling thing for me is we’re apparently seeing numbers from private testing labs. When we’re barely doing 6k tests a day ffs.

AlmightyCushion

ACitizenErased wrote: »

31 positive tests yesterday, 130 positive swabs held back from Friday, Saturday, Sunday + whatever leftovers coming from private testing labs (why???) - so yes I do have the numbers to back it up.

The positive swabs were from the weekend. What difference would it have made if they had included them in Mondays numbers and we had 190 on Monday and 30ish yesterday? We announced 190ish (can't remember the actual number) cases on Saturday. They aren't holding back positives to have a big number for when they are announcing new restrictions.

bb1234567

Peru seems noticeably absent from the whole lockdown vs no lockdown debates , with Sweden bearing the brunt of criticism in that regard. Peru had the longest and strictest lockdown in the entire world and will soon overtake Belgium in deaths per capita , and what's more a second wave is also beginning for them. It really is a different type of pandemic they are experiencing in South America compared to what happened here.

https://jordanschachtel.substack.com/p/the-worlds-toughest-lockdown-has

spookwoman

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

The positive swabs were from the weekend. What difference would it have made if they had included them in Mondays numbers and we had 190 on Monday and 30ish yesterday? We announced 190ish (can't remember the actual number) cases on Saturday. They aren't holding back positives to have a big number for when they are announcing new restrictions.

Here you go

AlmightyCushion

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Funny that nobody in the media has picked up on the large numbers being held back for the big announcement

They aren't holding back numbers for the announcements, it makes no sense. The difference yesterday between positive swabs and new case is about 150. If they had been added evenly between Sunday and Monday then we would have 150 cases Sunday and 140 Monday.

If any one asked at a press conference yesterday 'Why the new restrictions sure there are only 31 new cases today?' They could easily just point out we had nearly 200 on Saturday and nearly 150 on both Sunday and Monday for a total of 500 cases in the previous 3 days.

This suggestion they are holding back numbers to have a big number for when announcing restrictions is rubbish.

yourdeadwright

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Not correct one of my kids had both last week doctor sent her to be tested for Covid on Saturday and on Monday got the results as negative,

So all your normal things are stil around,

I've heard that up to 20% of negative tests can be unreliable.

AlmightyCushion

spookwoman wrote: »

Here you go

200 from Saturday. A bit higher than I remembered. So everyone who thinks they are holding back numbers for the big announcements. Why announce 200 on Saturday? Why not announce 50, then they would have had an extra 150 for yesterday's big announcement.

spookwoman

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

200 from Saturday. A bit higher than I remembered. So everyone who thinks they are holding back numbers for the big announcements. Why announce 200 on Saturday? Why not announce 50, then they would have had an extra 150 for yesterday's big announcement.

I know.

I remember the response for 174 Oh sh*t
200 was oh it's backlogs and 190 is a gubbermint conspiracy.

mirrorwall14

seamus wrote: »

I'm not defending their poor messaging, but I can see the logic in what they're trying to do.

I called it out last week; the big issue here is a small number of people with a huge number of close contacts. Some people have 20+ close contacts when they test positive.

That may not sound like a lot over two weeks, until you consider that a close contact is defined as someone that you have spent more than 15 minutes with, without social distancing. I don't know about you, but outside of my own home, there are only 2 or 3 people who fall into that category.

So the main thrust of these measures is to reduce this number. To limit the number of unnecessary close contacts that we all have.

- Avoid public transport if possible
- Avoid having lots of people at your home (inside or outside)
- Avoid having large uncontrolled gatherings where social distancing will not be observed.
- Work from home if at all possible

This is why a "controlled" gathering (where hygiene practices are in place) like Mass is OK, but party in your back garden is not. Likewise sporting events might have a lot of space, but congregation takes place before and after. And to a certain extent people congregate on the sidelines.

Schools are OK, because kids will be isolated to a core group and won't mix outside that.

Restaurants are OK because they have protocols and distancing practices.

And so on.

Why are schools OK, but work is not? I know that question has been asked a lot, but it's not an either/or. If working from home is at all possible, then it's low-effort intervention. Schooling from home is not possible.

20 close contacts? I just posted in the schools thread. I currently have a close contact list of, let me think about it.... 3. My husband and my two children. I haven’t been in contact with anyone else for more than 15 minutes since the LOKdown. But next week....

Secondary school teacher here. Got my timetable. Close contacts? Numbers may change depending on subject choices but not by much. These are just students. Not staff I may encounter

Monday 120
Tuesday 200
Wednesday 140
Thursday 170
Friday 190

If any child comes to school with Covid even for one day contact tracing would be horrendous. The ‘bubbles’ for students in our school is really a year group due to options so ~150 people and up to 10 teachers a day. Worse if I get it but either way it’s mental

Those numbers are based of 24 max per class. We are not using masks, it’s visors that are compulsory.

That’s what the numbers mean in big secondary schools. We have around 800 students.

What Username Guidelines

bb1234567 wrote: »

Peru seems noticeably absent from the whole lockdown vs no lockdown debates , with Sweden bearing the brunt of criticism in that regard. Peru had the longest and strictest lockdown in the entire world and will soon overtake Belgium in deaths per capita , and what's more a second wave is also beginning for them. It really is a different type of pandemic they are experiencing in South America compared to what happened here.

https://jordanschachtel.substack.com/p/the-worlds-toughest-lockdown-has

Also interesting to pit Peru (hard lockdown) and Brazil (less hard), and graph it with Italy (hard lockdown) Sweden (voluntary, less harsh, "open"). There appears to be reporting issues in Peru, with the sharp upticks, but even still, you'd expect significant differences in locked down vs open societies.



Why do the curves follow each other so closely? There seems to be a seasonal aspect to this. Ok, it doesn't just go away in the summer and come back in winter, but there are questions to be asked in terms of how much of an impact a lockdown is having.

ninebeanrows

I'm sorry but the dog on the street knows yesterday's presser was delayed until the release of the big Covid case number yesterday.

Why didnt the presser go ahead at 330 or 4 after the cabinet meeting as expected.

PhoneMain

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

No, something as common as tonsillitis would cause fever and sore throat and could easily be misread as covid initially.

Sore throat is not a typical symptoms of Covid.

Eod100

wadacrack wrote: »

No, hayfever is pretty common. High pollen count in the last few weeks also

People generally wouldn't have a fever with hayfever would they? Get it myself and never had fever

caveat emptor

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

200 from Saturday. A bit higher than I remembered. So everyone who thinks they are holding back numbers for the big announcements. Why announce 200 on Saturday? Why not announce 50, then they would have had an extra 150 for yesterday's big announcement.

I suppose one reason could be so they don't make it too obvious?

seanb85

ACitizenErased wrote: »

The most unsettling thing for me is we’re apparently seeing numbers from private testing labs. When we’re barely doing 6k tests a day ffs.

Reality is, nearly six months in, the testing capacity isn't good enough. And the tracing is under pressure when we're averaging only 80 cases a day. And our isolation facilities aren't sufficient. And the school plan is worthless.

The things you need to have in place to "live with the virus" aren't there.

It was a huge effort from the public that got cases down to single figures but this was done via a very crude and simple measure, lockdown. This should have given us time to get things ready but the people in charge have failed at this in nearly every area.

stephenjmcd

spookwoman wrote: »

Here you go

Excuse my ignorance I might be missing something quite obvious here, thats only tracking the daily case numbers announced correct ?

There were not 190 postive swabs yesterday, according to the testing data it was 31.

190 was announced but there was 136 of a discrepancy from Sunday & Monday.

That is the point ACE is making from what i can see.

caveat emptor

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

Also interesting to pit Peru (hard lockdown) and Brazil (less hard), and graph it with Italy (hard lockdown) Sweden (voluntary, less harsh, "open"). There appears to be reporting issues in Peru, with the sharp upticks, but even still, you'd expect significant differences in locked down vs open societies.



Why do the curves follow each other so closely? There seems to be a seasonal aspect to this. Ok, it doesn't just go away in the summer and come back in winter, but there are questions to be asked in terms of how much of an impact a lockdown is having.

Sweden isn't implementing a lockdown but it's economy is suffering worse than its neighbours and people are limiting their activities anyway. One would presume for fear of contracting the virus. You can't magically get people to go back spending. They naturally are avoiding it.

https://twitter.com/zorinaq/status/1295872240114778114?s=20

ACitizenErased

seanb85 wrote: »

Reality is, nearly six months in, the testing capacity isn't good enough. And the tracing is under pressure when we're averaging only 80 cases a day. And our isolation facilities aren't sufficient. And the school plan is worthless.

The things you need to have in place to "live with the virus" aren't there.

It was a huge effort from the public that got cases down to single figures but this was done via a very crude and simple measure, lockdown. This should have given us time to get things ready but the people in charge have failed at this in nearly every area.

Well said. GPs are saying the test and trace system is struggling massively

Queried

is_that_so wrote: »

The spread is still limited, this is a prophylactic measure to help it stay that way. Schools mean up to 1m+ more moving about daily.

Hi is_that_so,

Unfortunately the 1m + rule is only advised "where possible". In the school I have worked in, we have been informed that given the sizes of our rooms, it is not possible to distance the children 1m from each other. Even though it is a recommendation it isn't the reality in all schools.

ACitizenErased

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance I might be missing something quite obvious here, thats only tracking the daily case numbers announced correct ?

There were not 190 postive swabs yesterday, according to the testing data it was 31.

That is the point ACE is making from what i can see.

That graph has confirmed cases = positive tests which is just completely wrong

stephenjmcd

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

200 from Saturday. A bit higher than I remembered. So everyone who thinks they are holding back numbers for the big announcements. Why announce 200 on Saturday? Why not announce 50, then they would have had an extra 150 for yesterday's big announcement.

Well seeing as there was 136 outstanding up to yesterday from Sunday & Monday there already was a fair few to be added in yesterday

davemckenna25

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

20 close contacts? I just posted in the schools thread. I currently have a close contact list of, let me think about it.... 3. My husband and my two children. I haven’t been in contact with anyone else for more than 15 minutes since the LOKdown. But next week....

Secondary school teacher here. Got my timetable. Close contacts? Numbers may change depending on subject choices but not by much. These are just students. Not staff I may encounter

Monday 120
Tuesday 200
Wednesday 140
Thursday 170
Friday 190

If any child comes to school with Covid even for one day contact tracing would be horrendous. The ‘bubbles’ for students in our school is really a year group due to options so ~150 people and up to 10 teachers a day. Worse if I get it but either way it’s mental

Those numbers are based of 24 max per class. We are not using masks, it’s visors that are compulsory.

That’s what the numbers mean in big secondary schools. We have around 800 students.

Why do you need to be within 2 metres for a period of 15 mins with all your students?.....
Are the kids not spaced out and you spaced from them. Surely you won't be that close physically to all the students, stop over exaggerating the situation.

seanb85

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Well said. GPs are saying the test and trace system is struggling massively

I forgot to add, we've done effectively nothing about importing cases. We were told a few months ago the virus had been virtually "extinguished" in the community. It was reseeded and at least some of this must have been from travel.

If they had even tested those arriving from say the US there would have been cases spotted, it's a statistical certainty. That's why they haven't started random testing on arrivals, they know what they'd find and would come under pressure restrict travel/entry.

stephenjmcd

spookwoman wrote: »

I know.

I remember the response for 174 Oh sh*t
200 was oh it's backlogs and 190 is a gubbermint conspiracy.

Not that hard to see 190 wasn't the number of positive swabs yesterday.

Fairly pointless excel doc without having a column showing positive swabs and another cases confirmed

Hurrache

Sleety_Rain wrote: »

I'm sorry but the dog on the street knows yesterday's presser was delayed until the release of the big Covid case number yesterday.

And that's why dogs aren't in decision making positions.

spookwoman

Hold your horses was putting the numbers all together

Queried

Faith Fancy Lava wrote: »

Have a weekend away booked with friends next weekend (rescheduled from April no less). Obviously with new restrictions this isn't allowed as we'll have more than 3 people from 3 different households. Should I wait for the company who own the holiday home to cancel on me?

Hi Faith Fancy Lava,

That's a shame, unfortunate timing! I would contact them yourself just in case. They may think several of ye are from the one household and presume it to be the case if you don't get in touch.

Edit: this if course is if you want to cancel, I wouldn't see them cancelling on you if that's what you mean

Strumms

KaneToad wrote: »

Do you not think schools deserve prioritisation?

The virus doesn’t prioritize or discriminate...

The virus doesn’t say.. “ ahhh look, little kids, we will leave them alone “

The virus doesn’t say.. “ ahhh look, little kids, but Mammy has asthma “

The virus DOES say.. “ ahhh look, little kids, with living cells to infect, to multiply to make certain ill or worse.

With the behaviors of kids it’s going to spread like wildfire..

caveat emptor

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

Also interesting to pit Peru (hard lockdown) and Brazil (less hard), and graph it with Italy (hard lockdown) Sweden (voluntary, less harsh, "open"). There appears to be reporting issues in Peru, with the sharp upticks, but even still, you'd expect significant differences in locked down vs open societies.

Why do the curves follow each other so closely? There seems to be a seasonal aspect to this. Ok, it doesn't just go away in the summer and come back in winter, but there are questions to be asked in terms of how much of an impact a lockdown is having.

Nice comparison with the worst hit country in Europe. It's a combination of different behaviours. The extend of the spread. Differences in demographics.

Better comparison would be with Denmark. The difference is the area under the curve. That's a huge amount of people who are dying every day that are not dying in a country beside with similar culture. i.e unnecessary deaths.

I'm growing tired of false equivalencies.

robbiezero

spookwoman wrote: »

Hold your horses was putting the numbers all together

Can you add another column with the title "Big Announcements" and values showing Yes/No :)