Covid 19 Part XXI-27,908 in ROI (1,777 deaths) 6,647 in NI (559 deaths)(22/08)Read OP

boardise

I can understand a degree of watchfulness being in order -but I ask you , does anyone seriously think the general run of the gardai want to be allowed to go charging into people's houses in search of noisy crowds? They were extremely light touch even during the initial 'lockdown' and very solicitous about not being heavy handed or rubbing citizens the wrong way.
Also , does anyone really think ANY Irish government would have the competence to run a 'police state' and control the lives of the citizenry on an ongoing basis? They would struggle to run a police academy -let alone a police state. The whole idea is laughable.

FintanMcluskey

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

We seem to be back to our old trick of denotifying cases/deaths. Total number of cases only increased by 44 today and total number of deaths didn't increase at all. How are we still sneaking in denotifications at this stage, can't they just wait until they are confirmed before including them in the numbers!? I can only assume that it is another way of inflating the numbers and keep the fear level high.

Where do you find that sort of info?

The official info makes me smile, giving the sex of positive cases each day is one of the more useless pieces of info

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Great rationale on the numbers and why action was taken. Doesn't address why 50 people cant watch a match outside while 50 people can attend a wedding indoors however

Or go to mass

bb1234567

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Over 3,700 cases in Spain today.

Depressing

Over 100 deaths too although I think Spain seems to backlog deaths a lot and post a large number on single days? Seems that way

coastwatch

DevilsHaircut wrote: »

Dr Glynn gives further explanation for the benefit of the GAA, Leo Varadkar, Michael McNamara, Ryanair and the rest of his attackers and assorted whatabouters.

https://twitter.com/ronan_glynn/status/1296141115553394694

That was poor form by the GAA to so publicly challenge Ronan Glynn and NEPHET on the revised restrictions.
The GAA are entitled to seek an explanation for changes impacting sport, but it should be done through the usual channels.
It came across as a bit of a temper tantrum, after being shown a "yellow card".

paddyisreal

Would live to know of the 75 family clusters, how many originated in meat factories and direct provisioning centers.

Lundstram

coastwatch wrote: »

That was poor form by the GAA to so publicly challenge Ronan Glynn and NEPHET on the revised restrictions.
The GAA are entitled to seek an explanation for changes impacting sport, but it should be done through the usual channels.
It came across as a bit of a temper tantrum, after being given a "black card".

You didn't seem to have a problem with the Vitners Association publicly condeming NPHET so why should the GAA be any different?

The GAA have handed over stadiums for testing and do everything by the letter of the law regarding Covid19. As a player myself I know this for a fact. Very thorough throughout all this.

They're well within their rights to question Glynn and get answers that its 300,000 members want.

ACitizenErased

Lads.... oh my god. That’s all I have to say.
https://twitter.com/virginmedianews/status/1296165049950765061?s=21

almostover

A trip to a local supermarket has highlighted to me that the main reason for these increased restrictions is the general apathy of the public to personal responsibility. Guy behind me sauntered into the supermarket with no mask on. Headphones on and oblivious to all around him. 3-4 more people with the mask below the nose as if the nose isn't connected in any way to their respiratory system. Another person with a face shield I wouldn't wear strimming, pretty sure the visors have been shown to be of limited effectiveness. Demoralising stuff really

fritzelly

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Lads.... oh my god. That’s all I have to say.
https://twitter.com/virginmedianews/status/1296165049950765061?s=21

Schools with thousands of kids are controlled environments but homes are not?
Couldn't make it up

KrustyUCC

stephenjmcd wrote: »

https://twitter.com/IrishTimes/status/1296147049730027520?s=19

Madness

drunkmonkey

coastwatch wrote: »

That was poor form by the GAA to so publicly challenge Ronan Glynn and NEPHET on the revised restrictions.
The GAA are entitled to seek an explanation for changes impacting sport, but it should be done through the usual channels.
It came across as a bit of a temper tantrum, after being shown a "yellow card".

You weren't at training this evening then, crazy rules with no logic or science to back then up. Much like a lot of the nonsense people are accepting without question. Toasted Sandwiches, Buses, Weddings to name a few.
When they buried that lady in 6ft of concrete in west cork they lost me, from that point on I knew people had lost it.

drunkmonkey

fritzelly wrote: »

Schools with thousands of kids are controlled environments but homes are not?
Couldn't make it up

Driving a car is more deadly along with a trampoline. Can we agree it's a hoax now??

stephenjmcd

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Lads.... oh my god. That’s all I have to say.
https://twitter.com/virginmedianews/status/1296165049950765061?s=21

Thats a painful watch
First the driving a car example then there's this,

"We manage risk in our lives... our children being on trampolines is an inherently risky to do"

caveat emptor

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Lads.... oh my god. That’s all I have to say.
https://twitter.com/virginmedianews/status/1296165049950765061?s=21

Zara king is a legend. Donnelly didn't sound half bad until he started trying to compare the risk of driving a car and a whole school closing and kids and teachers getting sick, bringing it home and people dying.

As Zara correctly stated. Not the same.

Trampolines are lethal though.

Akesh

I think at this rate the government will be lucky to see the end of September. Embarrassing so far. Donnelly is out of his depth. The advice is based on 'expert' opinion but logic would suggest otherwise. To borrow a phrase from the GAA, they have lost the dressing room.

Patser

Glynn's message earlier was very good, very clear and simple. Showed the thinking behind yesterday's recommendations, and cut through a lot of the confusion.


Donnelly then talks himself in circles and we're back in a land of confusion (copyright Genesis)

podgeandrodge

almostover wrote: »

A trip to a local supermarket has highlighted to me that the main reason for these increased restrictions is the general apathy of the public to personal responsibility. Guy behind me sauntered into the supermarket with no mask on. Headphones on and oblivious to all around him. 3-4 more people with the mask below the nose as if the nose isn't connected in any way to their respiratory system. Another person with a face shield I wouldn't wear strimming, pretty sure the visors have been shown to be of limited effectiveness. Demoralising stuff really

Christ. And to think of the amount of us that were doing that for the first 4 months of the virus :eek: Oh wait, not many cases though

khalessi

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Lads.... oh my god. That’s all I have to say.
https://twitter.com/virginmedianews/status/1296165049950765061?s=21

OMG!!! Along with just being a car crash of an interviw he admitted to being worried about his 3 kids going back and also said homes are uncontrolled environments!!! Gobsmacked

Patser

Patser wrote: »

Glynn's message earlier was very good, very clear and simple. Showed the thinking behind yesterday's recommendations, and cut through a lot of the confusion.


Donnelly then talks himself in circles and we're back in a land of confusion (copyright Genesis)

Glynn has been with this from start and knows what he is talking about. Not as confident a speaker as Tony and does find it difficult when challenged.

Donnelly is a clown.

Covid is like driving a car. :pac:

School openings should be delayed until end of September to see if we can get get a handle on this.

timmy_mallet

Strumms wrote: »

Nothing is normal and nothing WILL be normal as long as there is a situation on this planet where a highly contagious virus has killed 777,000 people globally and that virus hasn’t existed before outside a laboratory.

One person dies from covid every 15 seconds.... look at your watch folks, that isn’t made up.

Dies with or from? And that's historical calcs, not current trend

One child, child, dies from hunger every 10 seconds, look at your watch folks, etc.

In the US a person dies of pneumonia every 10 minutes.

ACitizenErased

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Lads.... oh my god. That’s all I have to say.
https://twitter.com/virginmedianews/status/1296165049950765061?s=21

I’m in shock. Pure comedy gold.

For all the wrong reasons.

robbiezero

Patser wrote: »

Glynn's message earlier was very good, very clear and simple. Showed the thinking behind yesterday's recommendations, and cut through a lot of the confusion.


Donnelly then talks himself in circles and we're back in a land of confusion (copyright Genesis)

I presume the twitter text matches the video.
I still see no good reason for the outdoor sport restrictions and it doesn't look like the GAA will be getting any empirical evidence from him.

Whatever minuscule if any amount of cases might have been saved from these outdoor restrictions surely has not been worth the confusion, annoyance and loss of credibility of the Government. But I guess that is the politicians fault.
They really should have been able to weigh up the impact of the proposals and balance them against the impact and reaction of the public.

podgeandrodge

khalessi wrote: »

OMG!!! Along with just being a car crash of an interviw he admitted to being worried about his 3 kids going back and also said homes are uncontrolled environments!!! Gobsmacked

Clearly speaking from his own experience. We should call Tusla on him

Quantum Erasure

caveat emptor wrote: »

Trampolines are lethal though.

Especially in a storm....

thelad95

Donnelly is a pure career politician the same way a certain Mr Johnson in the UK is.

Listening to him shíte on nonsensically with patronizing analogies about schools re-opening and the every day danger of getting behind the wheel of a car, you realise he really has no idea what he's talking about. Remind me of Boris talking down the virus last February with no scientific or empirical back up to the woeful misinformation he's spreading.

To give credit to Simon Harris, he didn't come from a scientific background but he definitely made efforts to learn about the virus, constantly referring to the R number and trying not to spread misinformation.

normanoffside

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

We seem to be back to our old trick of denotifying cases/deaths. Total number of cases only increased by 44 today and total number of deaths didn't increase at all. How are we still sneaking in denotifications at this stage, can't they just wait until they are confirmed before including them in the numbers!? I can only assume that it is another way of inflating the numbers and keep the fear level high.

The 2 Deaths make the headlines and the 2 denotifications aren't even mentioned in most pres releases. It's farcical.

flutered

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Is Limerick high from sports clubs and Kilkee beach party tracings etc.,

i believe that some are from a traveler funeral in a county town

timmy_mallet

Does anyone have any numbers on COVID deaths In Ireland that happened in the last n number of weeks? Is that data available? Or is just notifications of death certs?

robbiezero

normanoffside wrote: »

The 2 Deaths make the headlines and the 2 denotifications aren't even mentioned in most pres releases. It's farcical.

I see Fergal Bowers on the news didn't know if the 2 deaths were recent or from a while ago. How is he not being told this?

Deeper Blue

Donnelly and Martin are local TD standard at best.

The fact that they're the two most prominent politicians in the country during this crisis is a joke.

Martin as a public speaker reminds me of a first year college student doing a powerpoint presentation. Amateurish and embarrassing.

Donnelly is an abomination, households not controlled environments? Jesus Christ

owlbethere

owlbethere wrote: »

The Oxford vaccine is looking very promising and it will be with us by Christmas. It will take some more months to roll it out across the population.

Here is hoping. I would happily take it before Christmas.

khalessi

So Eammon Ryan admits that there are contradictions in the safety advice but schools are essential so be it.

Stephen Donnelly tells us that schools are controlled environments and homes are not. Also that he is worried for his own 3 children returning to primary school.

Norma is not available for questions

The government have said there are plenty of teachers but we still have positions to fill and 4 substitute teachers are to contracted to cover absences in my school and 15 other schools, so conservatively covering a minimum of 700 teachers.

Wow!! I'm feeking confident. Sure be grand

landofthetree

thelad95 wrote: »

Donnelly is a pure career politician the same way a certain Mr Johnson in the UK is.

Listening to him shíte on nonsensically with patronizing analogies about schools re-opening and the every day danger of getting behind the wheel of a car, you realise he really has no idea what he's talking about. Remind me of Boris talking down the virus last February with no scientific or empirical back up to the woeful misinformation he's spreading.

To give credit to Simon Harris, he didn't come from a scientific background but he definitely made efforts to learn about the virus, constantly referring to the R number and trying not to spread misinformation.

That's not true. He had a career before he went into politics.

Strumms

timmy_mallet wrote: »

Dies with or from? And that's historical calcs, not current trend

One child, child, dies from hunger every 10 seconds, look at your watch folks, etc.

In the US a person dies of pneumonia every 10 minutes.

So we should try do nothing about hunger ?

172,000 people thus far have been killed by Corona in the USA. About 50,000 die from pneumonia in the US each year.

This thread isn’t about hunger, but seeing as you mentioned it, if Corona really took hold, in the supply chain of food and other essential supplies such as treatment and drugs for pneumonia is fûcked... the hunger crisis becomes not a problem, it’s just THE END.

Eod100

This is farcical.

https://twitter.com/SamanthaLibreri/status/1296180691240198146

lostatsea

normanoffside wrote: »

The 2 Deaths make the headlines and the 2 denotifications aren't even mentioned in most pres releases. It's farcical.

It is amazing listening to RTE News that the denotifications are not mentioned by the Health correspondent. The 7-day rolling average is 0 deaths. Excess deaths is now negligible. The rise in cases around the country has been occurring for over a month and yet the number of Covid ICU admissions is negligible. Stephen Donnelly says we will see death rates rising as a result of this rise in daily cases. However, I would say ICU admissions would need to start rising first.

According to Worldometer, there are 6 seriously ill people in the country due to Covid which is a seriously small number. There are two sides to the argument as to what happens next where both sides are using scientific data to back their point of view. Unfortunately, only one side of the argument is dominating the media. Nobody should ever fear a healthy debate!

FintanMcluskey

Strumms wrote: »

So we should try do nothing about hunger ?

172,000 people thus far have been killed by Corona in the USA. About 50,000 die from pneumonia in the US each year.

This thread isn’t about hunger, but seeing as you mentioned it, if Corona really took hold, in the supply chain of food and other essential supplies such as treatment and drugs for pneumonia is fûcked... the hunger crisis becomes not a problem, it’s just THE END.

Thats using the assumption that Covid explicitly killed those 172k which isn't the case as we know.

If it was allowed run through the population it certaintly is not the end, in fact most won't know they have it.

If you apply the asymptomatic figures from a recent food production facility outbreak to the general population, over 90% will have no symptoms.

We need to remember, a positive case is not a sick person

Strumms

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Thats using the assumption that Covid explicitly killed those 172k which isn't the case as we know.

If it was allowed run through the population it certaintly is not the end, in fact most won't know they have it.

If you apply the asymptomatic figures from a recent food production facility outbreak to the general population, over 90% will have no symptoms.

We need to remember, a positive case is not a sick person

I’m not using assumptions, I’m using government statistics. A person could die of cancer and have an underlying condition, still the cancer that killed them. Death certificate will show.. clutching at straws as regards underlying conditions isn’t helpful, unless you can back up with stats how many would survive without, either way underlying conditions are a part of life.

Eod100

Or maybe not. This government don't seem to know what's going on themselves tbh. All over the shop. Case of too many cooks? The reopening was always going to be harder than full restrictions but they should at least try to stay on the same page!

https://twitter.com/oconnellhugh/status/1296185210745298944

timsey tiger

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

If you apply the asymptomatic figures from a recent food production facility outbreak to the general population, over 90% will have no symptoms.

We need to remember, a positive case is not a sick person

But, the only reason you'd do that would be to mislead people, so why are you?

Pete_Cavan

normanoffside wrote: »

The 2 Deaths make the headlines and the 2 denotifications aren't even mentioned in most pres releases. It's farcical.

I also wonder how long it took for the denotified deaths to be confirmed as not Covid. They announced 3 deaths in the last 10 days, surely it couldn't have taken any longer than that to test those people and confirm they didn't have Covid (if they did have Covid no doubt their death would still be counted in these figures even if it wasn't Covid that killed them).

I would also question when did they know those deaths weren't Covid. Were they waiting until the number of deaths in a day at least matched the denotifications to avoid a Lazarus situation where deaths actually went down (again)? And will either of todays deaths get denotified in the near future?

It is beyond farcical at this stage.

Polar101

Finland removes Ireland from their 'green list' of countries, a month after it was added.

Countries outside Schengen that now face stepped-up checks are Cyprus, Ireland, San Marino and Japan.

Travellers arriving from those countries are asked to isolate themselves for two weeks, and travel to those countries is not recommended. The recommendation comes into force on Monday 24 August.

https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/article11501293.ece

caveat emptor

In fairness to Donnelly it's a complicated concept and not explainable with gaussian statistics. .
Most people don't understand "fat-tail" risks. Think of the Ro number that is in or around 1 ....
should be grand if we keep going doing what we are doing.

Literally one person can shut down Aberdeen.
one person can shut down LOK.

In those clusters the ro number was originally 1 or 2 but then it jumped to 27 or 50.
So using an average doesn't matter. The one extreme observation completely shifts your estimate and the observed distribution.
That's why you have to go hard and early. We are not doing that.
Asking 70 year olds to stay home or gaa to not to have spectators doesn't matter in a sense.

He needs to get better advisors. Preferably someone who can understand the concept and then explain in simple terms.
You don't wait for empirical evidence in a war or a pandemic.
The GAA asking for it shows they don't understand it either unfortunately.

The main issue is that the risk is fat tailed. I honestly think we are not in a good enough position to open them safely.

People saying flights etc are grand. One single person coming in infected can lead
to literally thousands of people being infected and dying by the time the contagion chain is interrupted.

We did an experiment this summer, Can we do enough things to block the spread while remaining open? The answer is fairly clear at this stage. Hopefully by this time next year we will be in a better position.

FintanMcluskey

timsey tiger wrote: »

But, the only reason you'd do that would be to mislead people, so why are you?

84 out if 87 workers who tested positive were asymptomatic

Polar101

Polar101 wrote: »

Finland removes Ireland from their 'green list' of countries, a month after it was added.



https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/article11501293.ece

Not a surprise. They are doing brilliantly. We should learn from them. Surely you follow best in class. The finnish
are nailing it. Small first peak and very few cases atm.

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

So we should try do nothing about hunger ?

172,000 people thus far have been killed by Corona in the USA. About 50,000 die from pneumonia in the US each year.

This thread isn’t about hunger, but seeing as you mentioned it, if Corona really took hold, in the supply chain of food and other essential supplies such as treatment and drugs for pneumonia is fûcked... the hunger crisis becomes not a problem, it’s just THE END.

172,000 deaths in America since Covid started there. That's about one death every 90 seconds if my maths are correct. Surely not.

Strumms

A person who has been infected with covid, is asymptomatic is a sick / ill person.

khalessi

Deleted User wrote: »

Not a surprise. They are doing brilliantly. We should learn from them. Surely you follow best in class. The finnish
are nailing it. Small first peak and very few cases atm.

Ireland loves the Finnish model, its why we always comment on their education and drool after it but then take our ideas from the UK. Probably doing the same with how Covid19 is dealt with.

Non solum non ambulabit

Down to 17 in hospital and now down to 6 in ICU. Positive numbers in all the gloom over cases.