Covid 19 Part XXI-27,908 in ROI (1,777 deaths) 6,647 in NI (559 deaths)(22/08)Read OP

Paddygreen

I meant Stephen Guys, we should do what Stephen says. Like Simon before him he is at the business end of the proverbial bat phone. He is receiving the latest expert advice in these times of crisis at least twice a day. Sometimes he stays late to clean the office, very tidy guy according to dail insiders on my grapevine.

lee_baby_simms

hotmail.com wrote: »

Stephen Donnelly needs to be stood down (sacked).

Who do you replace him with? I agree with you, he hasn't got anywhere near the skillset required for the job but front line politics in Ireland is dominated by supine, uninspiring, career politicians.

For every Stephen Donnelly theres a Jack Chambers nipping at his heels.

plodder

Eod100 wrote: »

Is that 50 in 2 weeks? Guess if they're out working and socialising it might not be that mad

The only scenario I could imagine would be the meat factories with workers living cheek by jowl, not speaking English (well) etc.

They should say what the scenario is regardless.

hotmail.com

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

Was never gonna be an easy role, I do not envy anyone doing it, but Harris was a far better communicator. As much as action is needed as well as solid communication, communication is the one to get the public on board.

He is out of his depth.

The interview with the trampolines doesn't exactly smack of competency. He's an idiot.

Hawthorn Tree

I hear the minister for health is saying parents should not attend underage matches. Is that feasible? How would that work?

caveat emptor

Drumpot wrote: »

........
......

I’m nearly more concerned with how the schools reopening are being handled. I haven’t been informed of exactly what to expect, with less then 2 weeks to go it doesn’t inspire confidence. It really does look like the government and dept of education has put all focus on opening schools with zero contingency plans. As somebody said , it’s like putting your foot on the accelerator when there is a red light and hoping that the light will be green by the time you get to the lights. Regardless of How it plays out, its wreckless and awful planning. A phased reopening at least might of been a reasonable compromise.

Looks like we are going to have to take the hit. It's like the videos of wildebeest crossing the river in Africa. Most will be ok but some won't. Planning is shocking.

Paddygreen

Hawthorn Tree wrote: »

I hear the minister for health is saying parents should not attend underage matches. Is that feasible? How would that work?

The parish priest could supervise.

Eod100

plodder wrote: »

The only scenario I could imagine would be the meat factories with workers living cheek by jowl, not speaking English (well) etc.

They should say what the scenario is regardless.

If its 14 a day between family members, work colleagues and friends its average of less than 4 a day so wouldn't think its huge. I don't know whether they ask for contacts for 14 days though

lee_baby_simms

hotmail.com wrote: »

He is out of his depth.

The interview with the trampolines doesn't exactly smack of competency. He's an idiot.

I think its also very likely that he doesn't agree with the position he's trying to sell to the public which is why he has a hard time trying to communicate it.

He clearly has no principles as he's demonstrated in the past and he's just toeing the line. Very badly.

fits

Hawthorn Tree wrote: »

I hear the minister for health is saying parents should not attend underage matches. Is that feasible? How would that work?

Matches aren’t really necessary right now. School is.

Newbienoob

Non solum non ambulabit wrote: »

Comparable to what? I said most kids are playing away. Don't argue points I didn't make. Thanks.

My point was; not comparable to school as children certainly not playing in large groups inside for extended periods. That was the conversation that was going on in the thread.
Imo "most kids" aren't "playing away" like before..it's a very different world.

Eod100

hotmail.com wrote: »

Stephen Donnelly needs to be stood down (sacked).

If I was him I'd be looking for a refund from Harvard for his masters. If they can't teach effective communication there something is wrong!

Gerry Hatrick

I get the feeling this could get away from us now and the timing could not be worse with the schools returning.

I think the government is in a bad spot and I don't necessarily put the blame all on them but they've made an absolute balls of this in terms of communication.

ACitizenErased

Hawthorn Tree wrote: »

I hear the minister for health is saying parents should not attend underage matches. Is that feasible? How would that work?

Nobody will stop a parent going to a kids match. That’s criminal.

Hurrache

Eod100 wrote: »

If its 14 a day between family members, work colleagues and friends its average of less than 4 a day so wouldn't think its huge. I don't know whether they ask for contacts for 14 days though

Is it the same 14 a day though, not a different 14, is a contact defined as an individual, or the number of times they meet that same individual each counted as a contact?

seamus

Eod100 wrote: »

Is that 50 in 2 weeks? Guess if they're out working and socialising it might not be that mad

Remember that a contact is defined as someone that you have been within 2m of, for more than 15 minutes.

Outside of some very specific occupations, 50 close contacts in two weeks is insane.

Nobody should be socialising enough to have with 50 close contacts. That's pure recklessness.

Hawthorn Tree wrote: »

I hear the minister for health is saying parents should not attend underage matches. Is that feasible? How would that work?

Pretty straightforward.

I know informally clubs often ask for a certain number of parents to hang around to help with crowd control.

They just need to formalise that now to ensure they have enough adults to keep the kids safe. Everyone else goes home.

Hawthorn Tree

fits wrote: »

Matches aren’t really necessary right now. School is.

He didn't ban matches. He is telling parents to drop their young kids off at a GAA pitch and disappear for over an hour.
It is ludicrous.

plodder

Eod100 wrote: »

If its 14 a day between family members, work colleagues and friends its average of less than 4 a day so wouldn't think its huge. I don't know whether they ask for contacts for 14 days though

But, they would have to be different people. Contacting the same person on multiple days is only one contact. I think it's unlikely that people are contacting 4 different people every day for two weeks.

Either way, it makes a huge difference to how we should react. So, they should be asked how this 50 contacts came about.

Hurrache

fits wrote: »

Matches aren’t really necessary right now. School is.

But they haven't all been postponed, which adds to the confusion. It's all well and good having senior matches closed off, but not so kids.

Paddygreen

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Nobody will stop a parent going to a kids match. That’s criminal.

If our experts recommend it then extraordinary measures need to be taken. Simple as that. Just follow the rules.

jammiedodgers

50 close contacts? I wouldn't have had that many before Covid!! :pac:

Eod100

Hurrache wrote: »

Is it the same 14 a day though, not a different 14, is a contact defined as an individual, or the number of times they meet that same individual each counted as an individual?

I would have thought an individual would only be counted once but am open to correction!

KrustyUCC

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

No it's not easy. Community transmission cases are by definition impossible to trace definitively. NPHET know the types of situations that lead to transmission and are trying to limit these as much as possible. And a judgment has been made that people congregating before and after sporting events is enough of a risk to justify banning spectators from those events.

Nope not buying that

They need to have strong evidence to back up their stance

Lot of people very angry with this

We have well over 1500 members yet all in the club that can go to matches is 29 people

My county has very low case figures and there have been only 2 cases linked to gaa clubs both of whom travelled down from Dublin

They could release where community transmission is occurring

Or else stop crowds in counties where it is occurring but not all

Nuanced approach as oppossed to a sledge hammer

1 mile over the border in Northern Ireland they can have 400 at sporting events

Exact same 'issues' with before and after matches

Hurrache

seamus wrote: »

I know informally clubs often ask for a certain number of parents to hang around to help with crowd control.

They just need to formalise that now to ensure they have enough adults to keep the kids safe. Everyone else goes home.

Each team has a Covid-19 Supervisor these days. As it is, some parents get uppity when they're asked to resubmit the health questionnaire before each training session or match.

I imagine the responsibility will lie on them to ask parents to leave the grounds, and I don't think they're going to want to do that.

Hawthorn Tree wrote: »

He didn't ban matches. He is telling parents to drop their young kids off at a GAA pitch and disappear for over an hour.
It is ludicrous.

In fairness most parents already do this for training, very few hang around. And those that do often sit in their cars.

ACitizenErased

Paddygreen wrote: »

If our experts recommend it then extraordinary measures need to be taken. Simple as that. Just follow the rules.

“Extraordinary measures” seriously Paddy

timmy_mallet

fits wrote: »

Matches aren’t really necessary right now. School is.

Physical education and games are very important for children and shouldn't be sacrificed either.

Eod100

plodder wrote: »

But, they would have to be different people. Contacting the same person on multiple days is only one contact. I think it's unlikely that people are contacting 4 different people every day for two weeks.

Either way, it makes a huge difference to how we should react. So, they should be asked how this 50 contacts came about.

Yeah that's true actually

Stheno

seamus wrote: »

Remember that a contact is defined as someone that you have been within 2m of, for more than 15 minutes.

Outside of some very specific occupations, 50 close contacts in two weeks is insane.

.

The contact tracers apparently only ask for close contacts for the 2-3 days prior to having symptoms, so that would imply people having 50 close contacts in even less time.

KrustyUCC

Hawthorn Tree wrote: »

He didn't ban matches. He is telling parents to drop their young kids off at a GAA pitch and disappear for over an hour.
It is ludicrous.

It's mad

We had a minor championship match last week

Very few kids those ages drive themselves

So parents travel an hour 15 to the match but are expected to go away for the match, collect the kids again and then just drive home

Hurrache

Eod100 wrote: »

I would have thought an individual would only be counted once but am open to correction!

That's what I thought, which makes 50 pretty high.

Hurrache

KrustyUCC wrote: »

They need to have strong evidence to back up their stance

There's enough evidence around community transmission already.

As it is, some clubs are pretty good at managing things, others is just a free for all with a token sign here and there.

This risk when there's a number of cases in the community is people travelling across the county to meet up for an hour or two, albeit outdoors.

caveat emptor

fits wrote: »

Matches aren’t really necessary right now. School is.

People aren't happy. I feel for businesses effected or individuals.
Kids gong back is the priority. Our plan this summer was hope we can contain it. by "living beside it".

People's livings still decimated.

We are now hoping that we can send kids back to school and the magically won't get infected and transmit to wider community.

Hawthorn Tree

KrustyUCC wrote: »

It's mad

We had a minor championship match last week

Very few kids those ages drive themselves

So parents travel an hour 15 to the match but are expected to go away for the match, collect the kids again and then just drive home

He is actually pushing parents to car-pool which is something we have been trying to avoid. This government is becoming a farce.

ACitizenErased

Hurrache wrote: »

There's enough evidence around community transmission already.

Community transmission remains around 20% of all cases
How do sports cause more community transmission than any other event?

Martina1991

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

Also interesting, 50 contacts

https://twitter.com/michellehtweet/status/1296387813005496320?s=20

Christ.

It's no wonder contact tracing is facing delays then.

seanb85

[Deleted User] wrote: »

More muddled messaging - Paul Reid stating 2%positive in the last week. THe actual data says 1.3%
https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/pages/hospitals-icu--testing

It might be the positivity rate of those tested. Someone could be negative on day 0 positive on day 7, two tests, one person

normanoffside

Stheno wrote: »

The contact tracers apparently only ask for close contacts for the 2-3 days prior to having symptoms, so that would imply people having 50 close contacts in even less time.

What happens when they don’t have symptoms as the majority of the cases now are asymptomatic?

PowerToWait

Deleted User wrote: »

How does dealing with pandemics work? We have no established method of dealing with pandemic, and most pandemics throughout history have been dealt with by everyone susceptible getting it and everyone vulnerable dying.

There are in fact well established protocols and procedures, strategies and tools developed over many years for managing disease outbreaks. There have been thousands of academic papers written on the topic. People study these things for decades. Most countries have epidemic / pandemic specialist units and experts. I mean, are you seriously suggesting otherwise?

Even if we accept the utterly absurd premise that there are no methods of dealing with epidemics / pandemics, I cannot ever see a time when the ill informed decide it is over because they are fed up and want to watch the junior b game in Plunketts park and go for a few after.

But sure I'm a 'doom mongerer' and a 'misery merchant'.

seamus

KrustyUCC wrote: »

So parents travel an hour 15 to the match but are expected to go away for the match, collect the kids again and then just drive home

Bring a book, go grab a coffee, go for a walk or a run.

Seriously, it's a pandemic. This is hardly a huge imposition to ask of parents.

Hurrache

ACitizenErased wrote: »

How do sports cause more community transmission than any other event?

Stop getting hung up on sport causing it, it's the gathering of people.

ACitizenErased

seamus wrote: »

Bring a book, go grab a coffee, go for a walk or a run.

Seriously, it's a pandemic. This is hardly a huge imposition to ask of parents.

Drive over an hour to grab a coffee must be joking

ACitizenErased

Hurrache wrote: »

Stop getting hung up on sport causing it, it's the gathering of people.

So schools are an issue too? And art events? And weddings?
Oh wait, according to the government they’re not.

Hurrache

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Drive over an hour to grab a coffee must be joking

Don't bother going so if you can't adhere to public health advice.

blackcard

caveat emptor wrote: »

Did they not say it was about people meeting up before and after in large groups. They said clusters can be traced back to this.
The sport itself and the training is probably low risk if togging in and out managed correctly.

It would be interesting to establish what the issues are so that they can be avoided when the ban on spectators is lifted. I am not aware of people gathering in large clusters before club matches. What is the purpose? I presume that people meeting in large clusters after matches relates to people drinking in pub restaurants or in private houses but these activities are regulated anyway. Are people not more likely to gather together to watch matches being streamed?
Are the clusters related to adult matches or underage matches? Are they related to car pooling? Are they related to players? Would it help if all spectators had to wear masks irrespective of whether they were more than 2 metres apart?
My own experience of going to 3 matches was as follows:
Tickets for matches were distributed in advance. For first 2 matches, limit of 200 seemed to be observed, 3rd match looked to be a total of 300 to 350 including players. At one of the matches, substitutes on 1 team were not socially distancing. One team had a huddle beforehand. Otherwise all procedures seemed to be followed.

seamus

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Drive over an hour to grab a coffee must be joking

Apparently driving over an hour to stand beside a pitch is grand, but getting a coffee, that's unreasonable. OK...

polesheep

Looney1 wrote: »

First time in a while I have seen the word national lockdown been mentioned this morning. Scary

Never going to happen. Even if it were implemented it wouldn't be adhered to.

yourdeadwright

seamus wrote: »

Bring a book, go grab a coffee, go for a walk or a run.

Seriously, it's a pandemic. This is hardly a huge imposition to ask of parents.

You can walk around the park there playing in ,
But don't forget to close your eyes when you walk past the pitch there playing on or Covid will get ye,

Blondini

polesheep wrote: »

Are you part of an Amish community? Just about every child in the country has been behaving exactly as Seamus described.

Maybe children at your 'level'.

Not at mine.

spookwoman

Do those complaining about parents not allowed to matches actually have kids and if yes did they usually stand around gossiping with other parents while their kids played.

ACitizenErased

seamus wrote: »

Apparently driving over an hour to stand beside a pitch is grand, but getting a coffee, that's unreasonable. OK...

I’ve driven 4/5 hours up the country for matches, wouldn’t do it for a cup of coffee.