Covid 19 Part XXI-27,908 in ROI (1,777 deaths) 6,647 in NI (559 deaths)(22/08)Read OP

seanb85

Martina1991 wrote: »

Christ.

It's no wonder contact tracing is facing delays then.

By highlighting this they are just trying to shift blame for the system's inadequacy. They won't highlight the person who only had 2. If society is to remain open the tracing has to be capable of coping when people have a lot of contacts.

There are plenty of teachers and schoolkids who in a few weeks will all have a lot of close contacts.

seamus

ACitizenErased wrote: »

I’ve driven 4/5 hours up the country for matches, wouldn’t do it for a cup of coffee.

"Sorry son, you can't play this match if Daddy can't watch it. There's no point"

Paddygreen

seamus wrote: »

Bring a book, go grab a coffee, go for a walk or a run.

Seriously, it's a pandemic. This is hardly a huge imposition to ask of parents.

The media really needs to double down on getting the message out there to hold firm because we are in it together to stay safe, sometimes we have to stay home to stay safe but we always have to follow the rules to stay safe.

Hurrache

blackcard wrote: »

It would be interesting to establish what the issues are so that they can be avoided when the ban on spectators is lifted. I am not aware of people gathering in large clusters before club matches. What is the purpose? I presume that people meeting in large clusters after matches relates to people drinking in pub restaurants or in private houses but these activities are regulated anyway. Are people not more likely to gather together to watch matches being streamed?

You seem to be just talking about intercounty or senior county championship games.

Go to a local GAA club on a weekend which would often host a couple of games and training sessions and you'll see people gathered and talking for a decent period of time.

Not sure what you qualify as a large cluster, but you will always have people gathered in large groups.

Hawthorn Tree

seamus wrote: »

Bring a book, go grab a coffee, go for a walk or a run.

Seriously, it's a pandemic. This is hardly a huge imposition to ask of parents.

And if the U10 child gets injured and is crying for their parents or needs to get to a hospital asap? Delegate parenting to the coach?

ACitizenErased

seamus wrote: »

"Sorry son, you can't play this match if Daddy can't watch it. There's no point"

How do you expect the kid to get to the match? Carpooling? Exactly what the government don’t want you to do?

Paddygreen

seamus wrote: »

"Sorry son, you can't play this match if Daddy can't watch it. There's no point"

A small price to pay during a crisis as terrifying as this.

seamus

ACitizenErased wrote: »

How do you expect the kid to get to the match? Carpooling? Exactly what the government don’t want you to do?

You're missing my point.

Nothing has materially changed from the parent's point of view. Without a pandemic, they'd still have to drive for an hour, hang around and then drive home again.

The only difference is how the parents chooses to entertain themselves while waiting for the match to finish.

Your assertion is that there is no point in your child playing sport if you're not able to watch it. Or that you shouldn't have to suffer the hassle of driving them to the match and not be allowed watch it.

Matches are not held for the entertainment of parents.

ACitizenErased

seamus wrote: »

You're missing my point.

Nothing has materially changed from the parent's point of view. Without a pandemic, they'd still have to drive for an hour, hang around and then drive home again.

The only difference is how the parents chooses to entertain themselves while waiting for the match to finish.

Your assertion is that there is no point in your child playing sport if you're not able to watch it.

Matches are not held for the entertainment of parents.

The fact you think parents will drive to the match and not watch it is bizarre tbh.

yourdeadwright

Government have pulled a slight of hand here ,

Everyone talking about kids games, and also the talk of Garda having the power to walk into homes,
The government never mentioned the meat factories where the actually clusters are ,
The government gave these places notice in advance of there inspection, so they just need to get there house in order for that time,
Why haven't the government have not given Garda power to walk in and spot check the meat plants ?

They keep banging on about house parties but yet there has been no big outbreaks from them The big outbreaks are meat plants that seem to just be going ahead as usual nothing done, Why aren't the journo's pushing for these question to be answered at the press conferences ?

stephenjmcd

Some stats on the apps usage
https://twitter.com/michellehtweet/status/1296394191954640896?s=19

ACitizenErased

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Government have pulled a slight of hand here ,

Everyone talking about kids games, and also the talk of Garda having the power to walk into homes,
The government never mentioned the meat factories where the actually clusters are ,
The government gave these places notice in advance of there inspection, so they just need to get there house in order for that time,
Why haven't the government have not given Garda power to walk in and spot check the meat plants ?

They keep banging on about house parties but yet there has been no big outbreaks from them The big outbreaks are meat plants that seem to just be going ahead as usual nothing done, Why aren't the journo's pushing for these question to be answered at the press conferences ?

Because sports are the real problem here!!!!

spookwoman

Hawthorn Tree wrote: »

And if the U10 child gets injured and is crying for their parents or needs to get to a hospital asap? Delegate parenting to the coach?

Not all parents attend these matches and what happens usually when there is an injury when parent not there, :rolleyes:

Cilldara_2000

seamus wrote: »

You're missing my point.

Nothing has materially changed from the parent's point of view. Without a pandemic, they'd still have to drive for an hour, hang around and then drive home again.

The only difference is how the parents chooses to entertain themselves while waiting for the match to finish.

Your assertion is that there is no point in your child playing sport if you're not able to watch it. Or that you shouldn't have to suffer the hassle of driving them to the match and not be allowed watch it.

Matches are not held for the entertainment of parents.

Whatever the point of the no spectators rule is, it badly needs to be firmly and clearly explained. And why it's necessary to restrict spectators but weddings having 50 people inside in a function room are ok. Or why 50 people at the theatre is ok. Mickey Martin's exhortation to not weight restrictions against each other, doesn't cut it. He's treating the people like fools.

fits

Hawthorn Tree wrote: »

He didn't ban matches. He is telling parents to drop their young kids off at a GAA pitch and disappear for over an hour.
It is ludicrous.

No he’s telling people cannot gather to watch matches. If parents presence is necessary ( it is) then matches cannot happen.

timmy_mallet

KrustyUCC wrote: »

It's mad

We had a minor championship match last week

Very few kids those ages drive themselves

So parents travel an hour 15 to the match but are expected to go away for the match, collect the kids again and then just drive home

20 x 2m = 40m = less than half of one side of a pitch. Ludicrous guideline.

Hurrache

Hurrache wrote: »

Don't bother going so if you can't adhere to public health advice.

If a parent gets out of the car and stands at the side line, distant from anyone, this is bad because?

polesheep

Hawthorn Tree wrote: »

He didn't ban matches. He is telling parents to drop their young kids off at a GAA pitch and disappear for over an hour.
It is ludicrous.

Just 'disappear' to the far side of the pitch. It's totally unenforceable.

Dempo1

Very inspirational (Not) HSE press conference taking place right now, just cringe worthy. I often wondered have any of these HSE executives actually worked on the front line, they seem disjointed from reality, absolutely amazing as statistics, figures, graphs, percentages, most of which make no sense whatsoever. Actually an annoying spectacle, not helped by whomever is their long haired PR person overseeing proceedings.

Eod100

normanoffside wrote: »

What happens when they don’t have symptoms as the majority of the cases now are asymptomatic?

The close contacts? Heard Prof Codd? I think in charge of UCD? tracing say close contacts are advised to go for test asap and then week later which they arrange afaik

caveat emptor

The GAA thing is just a distraction for the schools thing.

You are all falling hook line and sinker for it.

Schools and the lack of planning is the real disgrace.

If schools can't open then the economy will tank anyway.

Hurrache

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

Whatever the point of the no spectators rule is, it badly needs to be firmly and clearly explained. And why it's necessary to restrict spectators but weddings having 50 people inside in a function room are ok. Or why 50 people at the theatre is ok. Mickey Martin's exhortation to not weight restrictions against each other, doesn't cut it. He's treating the people like fools.

That was a mess they caused for themselves. To many vested interests having a say, but their answer will be that in theatres, cinemas and restaurants there's already controls in place.

Weddings though, sweaty ties will be wrapped around random peoples heads soon after dinner at each one.

Billgirlylegs

robbiezero wrote: »

While I couldn't give a rats about the FAI,
I'd prefer to see some transparency about the whole process.
The FAI is no position to make anything awkward for the Government and will be just fobbed off or be told something about trampolines.

Nice well thought out comment.

The FAI is a bit more than spoofers squabbling over board positions numbers and influence.
They have told clubs that parents can't watch kids playing.
They have to wait in their cars (or somewhere away from the pitch).
These spoofers (NPHET) have "proof" that gathering before and after matches is what caused the recent increases.
This is basesd on their figures that were proved to be inaccurate.

Their wisdom extends to advising to let your 10 year olds off and trust them in the care of their coach.
That has always worked well in this country.

How could anyone doubt their competence??

Eod100

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Some stats on the apps usage
https://twitter.com/michellehtweet/status/1296394191954640896?s=19

I know if people have opted in HSE ring to confirm contact with positive case as well as notification via app. If contact tracing is under pressure should they not get rid of this duplication?

Hurrache

caveat emptor wrote: »

The GAA thing is just a distraction for the schools thing.

You are all falling hook line and sinker for it.

Schools and the lack of planning is the real disgrace.

If schools can't open then the economy will tank anyway.

But schools are opening and plans have been made.

And you're missing the obvious link between community transmission and the schools, the less random people meeting and mingling, the less likely it is to spread into communities, and the less like it is in the community, the less likely it will be in the schools.

yourdeadwright

In a lot of kids games parent's to do lines man in soccer or umpire in gaa ?
Also things like nets and corner flags are done by parents
Also if a kid is injured and needs medical attention who takes them ?

Lots of questions ,

timmy_mallet

Hurrache wrote: »

Don't bother going so if you can't adhere to public health advice.

I know. Drive with your child, drop them off. Get a coffee, go for a walk and just happen across a pitch where the game is taking place. Stand 2m from anyone else in the vicinity. Public health advice adherence maintained.

lee_baby_simms

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Why aren't the journo's pushing for these question to be answered at the press conferences ?

Creches and food pubs have been open for almost two months with virtually no cases traced back to them.

Too many journalists possess the same mealy mouthed moral cowardice as our political class.

Deviating from the prevailing narrative could lead to getting pilloried online and outcast by peers.

#holdfirm
#dontrocktheboat

ACitizenErased

Hurrache wrote: »

But schools are opening and plans have been made.

And you're missing the obvious link between community transmission and the schools, the less random people meeting and mingling, the less likely it is to spread into communities, and the less like it is in the community, the less likely it will be in the schools.

You can hardly call the schools opening document a plan, its a load of mumbo jumbo

Hurrache

Deleted User wrote: »

If a parent gets out of the car and stands at the side line, distant from anyone, this is bad because?

Nobody has said that's bad. But it's also unrealistic.

polesheep

seamus wrote: »

You're missing my point.

Nothing has materially changed from the parent's point of view. Without a pandemic, they'd still have to drive for an hour, hang around and then drive home again.

The only difference is how the parents chooses to entertain themselves while waiting for the match to finish.

Your assertion is that there is no point in your child playing sport if you're not able to watch it. Or that you shouldn't have to suffer the hassle of driving them to the match and not be allowed watch it.

Matches are not held for the entertainment of parents.

If that's how you see it then you are missing at least one of the joys of parenting.

Hurrache

Billgirlylegs wrote: »

These spoofers (NPHET) have "proof" that gathering before and after matches is what caused the recent increases.

Now you're just making **** up.

Hurrache

ACitizenErased wrote: »

You can hardly call the schools opening document a plan, its a load of mumbo jumbo

Each school has a plan.

Onesea

So has anyone in Ireland caught this twice? How will media react to the fact imunity may well be the only answer to this.

Hurrache

polesheep wrote: »

If that's how you see it then you are missing at least one of the joys of parenting.

Missing a tiny handful of games over a couple of weeks is all it is, you're being overly dramatic.

JDD

I kind of get the outdoor sports rule.

I regularly attend sports matches. My husband has a season ticket. 99% of matches we attend involves meeting up with between 3 and 10 other friends in the pub beforehand, and going for at least one drink (usually many more) after the match. Matches usually take place in the afternoon or early evening, so you have plenty of time to go to the pub afterwards.

I also regularly go to the cinema. I can't remember the last time I went to the pub or a restaurant either before or after the cinema.

I would rarely go to the theatre. The times I do go, it is with my husband, or my best mate. No big group. The theatre usually finishes pretty late - like 10.30/11 - and is not local to us so we would head home straight after.

I don't go to mass. While some younger families might go on for a sunday roast somewhere, the vast majority of regular mass goers are 60+. They aren't going to be going to the local pub after mass.

Weddings? Well, I think they just thought we have to give an exemption there. There's so much planning, so much cost, so much outlay made by guests and so many suppliers that rely on weddings continuing that it hardly comparing like with like. You couldn't really stand there in front of a bride and groom and say "Why is your wedding going ahead on Saturday and I can't go and see Dublin play a match on Saturday? I am JUST as disappointed that I can't go to the match as you would be if you had to cancel your wedding, and the hit to the economy is JUST as bad since myself and half the 200 spectators won't be buying a sandwich and a pint in the pub afterwards, as it would be if the hotel wasn't getting €4k for the wedding and 20 rooms booked by guests, and the hairdresser and make up artist and photographer and church singer not getting paid that day."

That's balancing the economic hit, with the restrictions.

polesheep

Hurrache wrote: »

Missing a tiny handful of games over a couple of weeks is all it is, you're being overly dramatic.

I replied to a very telling comment.

timmy_mallet

seamus wrote: »

You're missing my point.

Nothing has materially changed from the parent's point of view. Without a pandemic, they'd still have to drive for an hour, hang around and then drive home again.

The only difference is how the parents chooses to entertain themselves while waiting for the match to finish.

Your assertion is that there is no point in your child playing sport if you're not able to watch it. Or that you shouldn't have to suffer the hassle of driving them to the match and not be allowed watch it.

Matches are not held for the entertainment of parents.

That's it mate, I mean, school plays, music recitals, games, swimming, the beach, etc... Not there for families, just for the participator. What utter gibberish.

timmy_mallet

Hurrache wrote: »

Missing a tiny handful of games over a couple of weeks is all it is, you're being overly dramatic.

Restrictions will stay in place until at least Sept. 13th.

ACitizenErased

Hurrache wrote: »

Each school has a plan.

To somehow space students 1m apart with overcrowded classes and tiny classrooms :rolleyes:

Santy2015

Just in terms of schools. I’ve never seen so much work going on in the 2 secondary and 2 primary schools here. They’ve been ripped apart. No idea what they’ll look like after but some amount of work going on. Next Thursday is D day for 1st years and primary kids.
Edit: one secondary school had 500+ students last year the other 300 or so. How they’ll do social distancing is a mind f##k

Hurrache

Hurrache wrote: »

Nobody has said that's bad. But it's also unrealistic.

Why is it unrealistic?

Is it less realistic than a group of parents driving an hour to a match and as they can't watch the match, head to a local cafe or bar and sit in each others company for an hour, indoors, at much greater risk of transmission. Unintended consequences of poor policy.

caveat emptor

Hurrache wrote: »

But schools are opening and plans have been made.

And you're missing the obvious link between community transmission and the schools, the less random people meeting and mingling, the less likely it is to spread into communities, and the less like it is in the community, the less likely it will be in the schools.

And you are missing...

• the incubation period (median 6 days)
• 80% of infection events occur before symptoms
• testing and tracing turn around are woeful.

In all of this we are assuming the gov is being "proactive" but figures today are 2 weeks behind actual infection that's occurring in the wider community now.
Leo is already in the life raft.
If we are seeing this many cases it's already going to double and they know it.
Not even considering the 2 day lag in reporting figures to manage the narrative.

The fact is the same cohort of people affected by the GAA thing will be affected by the schools reopening disaster.
To prevent anyone from actually doing anything about this they've lobbed in an ineffective measure to distract from the real **** show.

polesheep

JDD wrote: »

I kind of get the outdoor sports rule.

I regularly attend sports matches. My husband has a season ticket. 99% of matches we attend involves meeting up with between 3 and 10 other friends in the pub beforehand, and going for at least one drink (usually many more) after the match. Matches usually take place in the afternoon or early evening, so you have plenty of time to go to the pub afterwards.

I also regularly go to the cinema. I can't remember the last time I went to the pub or a restaurant either before or after the cinema.

I would rarely go to the theatre. The times I do go, it is with my husband, or my best mate. No big group. The theatre usually finishes pretty late - like 10.30/11 - and is not local to us so we would head home straight after.

I don't go to mass. While some younger families might go on for a sunday roast somewhere, the vast majority of regular mass goers are 60+. They aren't going to be going to the local pub after mass.

Weddings? Well, I think they just thought we have to give an exemption there. There's so much planning, so much cost, so much outlay made by guests and so many suppliers that rely on weddings continuing that it hardly comparing like with like. You couldn't really stand there in front of a bride and groom and say "Why is your wedding going ahead on Saturday and I can't go and see Dublin play a match on Saturday? I am JUST as disappointed that I can't go to the match as you would be if you had to cancel your wedding, and the hit to the economy is JUST as bad since myself and half the 200 spectators won't be buying a sandwich and a pint in the pub afterwards, as it would be if the hotel wasn't getting €4k for the wedding and 20 rooms booked by guests, and the hairdresser and make up artist and photographer and church singer not getting paid that day."

That's balancing the economic hit, with the restrictions.

Good for you and thank you for that insight into your life.

I, on the other hand, would always go for a drink after the cinema. I love the theatre and usually try to combine it with a drink or meal. And you are 'just as disappointed' not to go to a match as someone who has to cancel their wedding? really?

paddyisreal

Kildare chilling still waiting on test results for a significant amount of staff for over 10 days..... the country was shut down to get testing and tracing right and this is the shambles we have. piss up and brewery are the only words

is_that_so

timmy_mallet wrote: »

Restrictions will stay in place until at least Sept. 13th.

Having a flexible date is a better way to define it so you don't get people clamouring a week in advance for it to be reversed.

timmy_mallet

Deleted User wrote: »

Why is it unrealistic?

Is it less realistic than a group of parents driving an hour to a match and as they can't watch the match, head to a local cafe or bar and sit in each others company for an hour, indoors, at much greater risk of transmission. Unintended consequences of poor policy.

It's the blind following of these guidelines and unquestioning nature of those doing so that is most surprising.

Hurrache

ACitizenErased wrote: »

To somehow space students 1m apart with overcrowded classes and tiny classrooms :rolleyes:

Which is why it's so important to limit the risk of community transmission outside of the schools so nothing is brought into them.

See how the 2 fit together?

timmy_mallet

is_that_so wrote: »

Having a flexible date is a better way to define it so you don't get people clamouring a week in advance for it to be reversed.

Yes, but the poster said it's 'only a couple of games' - it's not.

timmy_mallet

Hurrache wrote: »

Which is why it's so important to limit the risk of community transmission outside of the schools so nothing is brought into them.

See how the 2 fit together?

Yes mate, can't stand outdoors, easily keeping 2m distance, at 10am for the match, but no bother firing into the church and function room for the wedding from 2pm.

See how those 2 things are utterly illogical?