Covid 19 Part XXI-27,908 in ROI (1,777 deaths) 6,647 in NI (559 deaths)(22/08)Read OP

blackcard

Hurrache wrote: »

You seem to be just talking about intercounty or senior county championship games.

Go to a local GAA club on a weekend which would often host a couple of games and training sessions and you'll see people gathered and talking for a decent period of time.

Not sure what you qualify as a large cluster, but you will always have people gathered in large groups.

The games that I attended were senior club matches. I don't think that anyone would have a problem with spectators being banned from training matches

Gerry Hatrick

paddyisreal wrote: »

Kildare chilling still waiting on test results for a significant amount of staff for over 10 days..... the country was shut down to get testing and tracing right and this is the shambles we have. piss up and brewery are the only words

10 days? That's ridiculous.

Hurrache

Hurrache wrote: »

Which is why it's so important to limit the risk of community transmission outside of the schools so nothing is brought into them.

See how the 2 fit together?

So you select the area where the is the lowest risk or community transmission to restrict, outdoors, in a large outdoor space, with low numbers of people. Its not about the individual activity, its about credibility, and by focusing on what is probably the lowest risk activity where groups of people may congregate, credibility on the overall system is lost

Hurrache

timmy_mallet wrote: »

Yes mate, can't stand outdoors, easily keeping 2m distance, at 10am for the match, but no bother firing into the church and function room for the wedding from 2pm.

See how those 2 things are utterly illogical?

I've been saying since the outset that the wedding thing doesn't fit in. And it's about risk and reward.

Weddings are relatively few and bar between, with limited numbers anyway. The reward of schools returning outweigh that risk.

JDD

polesheep wrote: »

Good for you and thank you for that insight into your life.

I, on the other hand, would always go for a drink after the cinema. I love the theatre and usually try to combine it with a drink or meal. And you are 'just as disappointed' not to go to a match as someone who has to cancel their wedding? really?

I had a summer job in ticketmaster 20 years ago. Theatre tickets were sold in twos and threes. Match tickets (of which there were few that went through ticketmaster at the time) were regularly bought up in blocks of eight or ten.

The point of the "just as disappointed" paragraph was to compare restricting match spectators to restricting wedding guests. Clearly there is less impact on a match spectator of not being able to go to a match than there is on a bride and groom who had planned for 50 guests and are now cancelling their wedding (probably for the second time) because the allowed guests have been reduced to six. Add in the economic impact of that cancellation and it's a no brainer that an exemption was allowed for weddings.

stephenjmcd

Ah yeah because that'll work lads, particles don't move in the air or around screens.

https://twitter.com/ciaraphelan_/status/1296396611992653824?s=19

plodder

Luke O'Neill was on Pat Kenny's program talking about a promising preventive (antibody) drug from Lilly called Ly-Cov-555 being tested out in an 8 week phase 3 trial in care homes in the US. If that works, we can hopefully not have to worry as much about outbreaks in nursing homes.

Another thing he mentioned was one of the reasons (I hadn't heard before) for reducing death rates is improved treatments for the coagulopathy (the blood clotting characteristic). He didn't say this, but I wonder if this will also reduce the long term effects on survivors with cases that might have resulted in blood clots?

JDD

JDD wrote: »

I had a summer job in ticketmaster 20 years ago. Theatre tickets were sold in twos and threes. Match tickets (of which there were few that went through ticketmaster at the time) were regularly bought up in blocks of eight or ten.

The point of the "just as disappointed" paragraph was to compare restricting match spectators to restricting wedding guests. Clearly there is less impact on a match spectator of not being able to go to a match than there is on a bride and groom who had planned for 50 guests and are now cancelling their wedding (probably for the second time) because the allowed guests have been reduced to six. Add in the economic impact of that cancellation and it's a no brainer that an exemption was allowed for weddings.

A false equivalence. Tickets for an All Ireland Quarter Final may have been bought in Blocks of 10. Under 12 B county semi final, less so. Nobody is saying open up Croke Park to large crowds.

Billgirlylegs

polesheep wrote: »

Just 'disappear' to the far side of the pitch. It's totally unenforceable.

Agreed.

But you would be concerned about the motives behind it.
That Donnelly chancer said they had "proof" that outbreaks were caused by people meeting before and after the match.
Not during, not travelling - meeting
I'd love to see that proof.

caveat emptor

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Ah yeah because that'll work lads, particles don't move in the air or around screens.

Exactly. It's an impressive piece of plastic though all the same. Let's hope the air doesn't move around it too much.

stephenjmcd

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Ah yeah because that'll work lads, particles don't move in the air or around screens.

https://twitter.com/ciaraphelan_/status/1296396611992653824?s=19

Wont eliminate, but will reduce transmission. That is all any measure can do

timmy_mallet

Hurrache wrote: »

I've been saying since the outset that the wedding thing doesn't fit in. And it's about risk and reward.

Weddings are relatively few and bar between, with limited numbers anyway. The reward of schools returning outweigh that risk.

That's for explaining about risk and reward. I'd say the reward for children's activities and support form their family far outweigh a few 'I Dos' in the scheme of life.

stephenjmcd

caveat emptor wrote: »

Exactly. It's an impressive piece of plastic though all the same. Let's hope the air doesn't move around it too much.

Air moves, who knew??

polesheep

plodder wrote: »

Luke O'Neill was on Pat Kenny's program talking about a promising preventive (antibody) drug from Lilly called Ly-Cov-555 being tested out in an 8 week phase 3 trial in care homes in the US. If that works, we can hopefully not have to worry as much about outbreaks in nursing homes.

Another thing he mentioned was one of the reasons (I hadn't heard before) for reducing death rates is improved treatments including for the coagulopathy (the blood clotting characteristic). He didn't say this, but I wonder if this will reduce the long term effects on survivors with severe cases caused by blood clots?

The reason why there are less deaths is that less people are being affected to the point where death is likely, but that is not as sexy as a new drug or treatment. Did he have any reason for reducing hospitalisations?

s1ippy

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

Creches and food pubs have been open for almost two months with virtually no cases traced back to them.

https://www.meathchronicle.ie/2020/08/18/creche-to-remain-closed-until-next-monday/

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/dublin-creche-staff-member-who-22413394.amp

https://www.rte.ie/amp/1154769/

At least three crèches in the links above. My brother uses one in Carrigaline Cork which had to partially close last week due to "close contact tracing" of a member of staff, which has been going on for a week now and twelve families are still awaiting tests. Also only 1/3 of childcare facilities have even reopened because the measures put in place were prohibitively expensive. Pods have 1 carer to 8 children and infant rooms have even fewer in their pods.

ACitizenErased

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Ah yeah because that'll work lads, particles don't move in the air or around screens.

https://twitter.com/ciaraphelan_/status/1296396611992653824?s=19

The teacher is supposed to sit down? Have they ever been in a classroom?

lee_baby_simms

caveat emptor wrote: »

Exactly. It's an impressive piece of plastic though all the same. Let's hope the air doesn't move around it too much.

Its more useful to protect the teacher from paper spitballs.

In reality its just another unscientific visual prop to make people believe that they're 'suppressing the virus'.

Like visors and masks, if they allow normal life to begin to resume then I'm all for them.

AlmightyCushion

Hawthorn Tree wrote: »

He didn't ban matches. He is telling parents to drop their young kids off at a GAA pitch and disappear for over an hour.
It is ludicrous.

The parents could always just sit in the car while the match is being played, no need to disappear off.

caveat emptor

Ireland on same trajectory as Spain.
New Zealand seem to have turned a corner.
Just to note 1 on the y-axis is zerocovid. (1/100,0000)
Finland on way to it.

FintanMcluskey

polesheep wrote: »

Did he have any reason for reducing hospitalisations?

He did in his bol#x.

The risk of a Covid death is dying off by itself

These guys are trying to keep the hysteria on life support

ACitizenErased

77 cases in Scotland, highest number in 3 months

lee_baby_simms

s1ippy wrote: »

https://www.meathchronicle.ie/2020/08/18/creche-to-remain-closed-until-next-monday/

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/dublin-creche-staff-member-who-22413394.amp

https://www.rte.ie/amp/1154769/

At least three crèches in the links above. My brother uses one in Carrigaline Cork which had to partially close last week due to "close contact tracing" of a member of staff, which has been going on for a week now and twelve families are still awaiting tests. Also only 1/3 of childcare facilities have even reopened because the measures put in place were prohibitively expensive. Pods have 1 carer to 8 children and infant rooms have even fewer in their pods.

7 cases. Out of a creche population of 200,000 children approx.

How many of those who tested positive had symptoms?

Again, perspective is needed here.

Correction - if only a 1/3 have opened, and I'll round down, 60,000 children.

Billgirlylegs

Hurrache wrote: »

Each school has a plan.

Ha!
Have you heard about Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy.

The objective is to get all schoolgoing kids back to school next week.
I got the "plan" for our school.

The Department of Education issued it's plan recently.
You should read it.
It is the standard stuff about hand washing social distancing and the rest of the stuff.

Nothing about room dimensions / room capacity / desk placing / entrance / exit.
A case of whatever you think yourselves.
They have had at least 16 weeks and they came up with SFA

Sweet.Science

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

He did in his bol#x.

The risk of a Covid death is dying off by itself

These guys are trying to keep the hysteria on life support

Exactly . Yuppies in suits loving the attention

MD1990

ACitizenErased wrote: »

77 cases in Scotland, highest number in 3 months

a week after schools re opened
15 schools in Scotland already having problems.

time to accept around the world that schools cannot re open until a vaccine is out next year

Eod100

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Ah yeah because that'll work lads, particles don't move in the air or around screens.

https://twitter.com/ciaraphelan_/status/1296396611992653824?s=19

Farcical. Just do it online until January ffs

timmy_mallet

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

The parents could always just sit in the car while the match is being played, no need to disappear off.

Are they allowed to get out of the car and stand beside it?

timmy_mallet

Eod100 wrote: »

Farcical. Just do it online until January ffs

What's January going to bring? 0 Covid?

plodder

polesheep wrote: »

The reason why there are less deaths is that less people are being affected to the point where death is likely, but that is not as sexy as a new drug or treatment. Did he have any reason for reducing hospitalisations?

There are multiple reasons for fewer deaths. He mentioned the younger average age of cases (resulting in fewer hospitalisations), which we already know about, and which is why a preventive treatment for the elderly or vulnerable would be so useful.

Worth listening back to the podcast. There was other stuff such as new less invasive saliva tests. Overall, it would give you hope that some real progress will be made before a new Winter surge in our half of the globe.

caveat emptor

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

Its more useful to protect the teacher from paper spitballs.

In reality its just another unscientific visual prop to make people believe that they're 'suppressing the virus'.

Like visors and masks, if they allow normal life to begin to resume then I'm all for them.

I'd agree with you. That will protect against short and medium droplets. It doesn't protect against aerosol that is long range hangs in the air and is proportional to the amount of people in the room and inversely proportional to the size of the room and the amount of air changes.

Windows need to be open. If you can open windows on opposite sides of a room even better. In a normal size room the air would be changed out every seven minutes if windows doors open with minimal wind. The poxy wind is actually an advantage we have here compared to other countries.

https://twitter.com/AliNouriPhD/status/1296166718142914561?s=20

Eod100

timmy_mallet wrote: »

What's January going to bring? 0 Covid?

Allow time for normal flu season to pass, allow time for cases to decrease, allow time for schools to be better prepared for physical teaching. What does rushing kids back to school for "normality" achieve when they're going back to an alien and unfamiliar environment with all the changes that need to be made?

polesheep

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Exactly . Yuppies in suits loving the attention

I have a lot of time for Luke O'Neill as a scientist, but since he was brought into the pandemic media he has been hopping about like an excited puppy. He should focus on his core strengths, but he seems to think that he should give an answer to every media question.

MD1990

timmy_mallet wrote: »

What's January going to bring? 0 Covid?

Vaccine trials are going very well.
Long term there has been great news about immunity.

This winter will most likely be carnage with the insistence of schools re opening which will cause huge spread of the virus. While people are not allowed attend outdoor sports events.

This new government are a disgrace not looking at scientific evidence & not shutting down meat plants quick enough.

timmy_mallet

Eod100 wrote: »

Allow time for normal flu season to pass, allow time for cases to decrease, allow time for schools to be better prepared for physical teaching. What does rushing kids back to school for "normality" achieve when they're going back to an alien and unfamiliar environment with all the changes that need to be made?

Flu season doesn't end til March. And doesn't start til mid-October.

Cases decreased to single figures, then went up again... again, why would that change in a couple of months?

I would agree on the last point, the measures are pointless, all in or all out.

fly_agaric

Billgirlylegs wrote: »

Ha!
They have had at least 16 weeks and they came up with SFA

Unfortunately you cannot fix 30+ years of underinvestment in 16 weeks.
Prefab/builders portacabin schools, not fit for purpose buildings left over from the Brits and (in Dublin anyway) a legacy of ridiculous class sizes.
I was in some classes above 40 in my youth.
It's gotten better but there are still outliers I think. From what I see in my local school class sizes have (probably) been improved by covering much of the yard (formerly for outdoor play) in a load of crappy prefabs.

seamus

ACitizenErased wrote: »

The fact you think parents will drive to the match and not watch it is bizarre tbh.

They won't have a choice, unless they can sit in their car beside the pitch. Which is a possibility.

I'm not necessarily defending the rule, I'm just pointing out that it's not the impossible, unreasonable task that some claim it is. Many pitches are wide open, four pitches near me are in a public park. And aside from not letting parents past a barrier or keeping them a few metres from the sideline, there is little clubs can do to prevent people watching it.

But where access can be restricted, it will be. And so be it.

Your assertion that parents won't bring their kids if they can't watch the match, is bizarre tbh.

is_that_so

Eod100 wrote: »

Farcical. Just do it online until January ffs

Yep, bet the new 5 year olds can't wait for that.

timmy_mallet

MD1990 wrote: »

Vaccine trials are going very well.
Long term there has been great news about immunity.

This winter will most likely be carnage with the insistence of schools re opening which will cause huge spread of the virus. While people are not allowed attend outdoor sports events.

This new government are a disgrace not looking at scientific evidence & not shutting down meat plants quick enough.

Israel is the only place that has seen a huge spread of covid-19 with school reopening. Everywhere else has not seen this, for example.

"STOCKHOLM (Reuters) - Sweden’s decision to keep schools open during the pandemic resulted in no higher rate of infection among its schoolchildren than in neighbouring Finland, where schools did temporarily close, their public health agencies said in a joint report."

Random sample

seamus wrote: »

They won't have a choice, unless they can sit in their car beside the pitch. Which is a possibility.

I'm not necessarily defending the rule, I'm just pointing out that it's not the impossible, unreasonable task that some claim it is. Many pitches are wide open, four pitches near me are in a public park. And aside from not letting parents past a barrier or keeping them a few metres from the sideline, there is little clubs can do to prevent people watching it.

But where access can be restricted, it will be. And so be it.

Your assertion that parents won't bring their kids if they can't watch the match, is bizarre tbh.

Or parents can just ask the club to livestream the match, book a table in the local pub and watch it there. Problem solved, and within current guidelines.

Hawthorn Tree

This government is getting an E for Communications this far. So much confusion. Sinn Fein must be secretly delighted.

polesheep

polesheep wrote: »

The reason why there are less deaths is that less people are being affected to the point where death is likely, but that is not as sexy as a new drug or treatment. Did he have any reason for reducing hospitalisations?

Treatments are improving also. The death rate among patients admitted to ICU has fallen significantly. One of the reasons you dont hear anything about ventilators anymore is that it has been identified that in certain presentations, ventilation or premature ventilation can actually make things worse. How did they find this out? For some patients in the early days, those who were waiting on ventilation due to scarce availability often had better outcomes than patients with similar presentation

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-ventilators-specia/special-report-as-virus-advances-doctors-rethink-rush-to-ventilate-idUKKCN2251ST

caveat emptor

We are turning orange in eastern health board, worse than any region in UK.
Spain is crazy.
Italy and Germany doing well relatively.
Finland has regions with no cases.

The whole argument that it's only bad regionally in Spain is horse sh!t.
Our eastern region is worse than any region in UK, France, Italy or Germany

is_that_so

Hawthorn Tree wrote: »

This government is getting an E for Communications this far. So much confusion. Sinn Fein must be secretly delighted.

It's a live grenade and the pin is loose, it's best to stay away from this situation. I have no doubt there is something ready for an anticipated failure on schools!

s1ippy

s1ippy wrote: »

https://www.meathchronicle.ie/2020/08/18/creche-to-remain-closed-until-next-monday/

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/dublin-creche-staff-member-who-22413394.amp

https://www.rte.ie/amp/1154769/

At least three crèches in the links above. My brother uses one in Carrigaline Cork which had to partially close last week due to "close contact tracing" of a member of staff, which has been going on for a week now and twelve families are still awaiting tests. Also only 1/3 of childcare facilities have even reopened because the measures put in place were prohibitively expensive. Pods have 1 carer to 8 children and infant rooms have even fewer in their pods.

In the first one - 3 siblings - likely passed to each other at home, and 2 staff, with no other cases - massive outbreak.

In the others it was one staff members who tested positive, that required contact tracing on the creches, but not outbreaks in the creches

sideswipe

Sorted;)

polesheep

Deleted User wrote: »

Treatments are improving also. The death rate among patients admitted to ICU has fallen significantly. One of the reasons you dont hear anything about ventilators anymore is that it has been identified that in certain presentations, ventilation or premature ventilation can actually make things worse. How did they find this out? For some patients in the early days, those who were waiting on ventilation due to scarce availability often had better outcomes than patients with similar presentation

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-ventilators-specia/special-report-as-virus-advances-doctors-rethink-rush-to-ventilate-idUKKCN2251ST

Yes, I am aware of all of that, however, it is still a fact that as of now fewer people are becoming seriously ill in the first place.

MD1990

MD1990 wrote: »

a week after schools re opened
15 schools in Scotland already having problems.

time to accept around the world that schools cannot re open until a vaccine is out next year

A vaccine may never work - lets just leave the schools closed forever

Gerry Hatrick

ACitizenErased wrote: »

77 cases in Scotland, highest number in 3 months

Have they opened schools yet?

ACitizenErased

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A vaccine may never work - lets just leave the schools closed forever

The chances of a vaccine working and being safe are well over 50% after the last few weeks

polesheep

MD1990 wrote: »

Vaccine trials are going very well.
Long term there has been great news about immunity.

This winter will most likely be carnage with the insistence of schools re opening which will cause huge spread of the virus. While people are not allowed attend outdoor sports events.

This new government are a disgrace not looking at scientific evidence & not shutting down meat plants quick enough.

Perhaps not, after all, many of those who would have been victims of this coming flu season have already been taken by Covid19.