Covid 19 Part XXI-27,908 in ROI (1,777 deaths) 6,647 in NI (559 deaths)(22/08)Read OP

Wanderer78

Assetbacked wrote:

Vaccine talk is a carrot and stick way of getting the gullible masses to follow government orders a while longer. But it is only necessary for the vulnerable, in the same way the flu vaccine is given to the vulnerable each year.

So our governments are conspiring against us, yea? Noting once again, this is not a flu, this is far more serious than a flu!

CalamariFritti

Wanderer78 wrote: »

But they've been unable to get on top of it, since the breakout, so I'm sure it's a major concern for them, and many other developing countries

The point he was trying to make was that maybe they dont need to get on top of it. Not the way we do anyway. Not with those percentages.

Wanderer78

Jim_Hodge wrote:

India's not a Developing Country

Is it not officially? I'd class it as, or parts of it

Wanderer78

CalamariFritti wrote:

The point he was trying to make was that maybe they dont need to get on top of it. Not the way we do anyway. Not with those percentages.

And my point is, maybe they just don't have the resources to

Jim_Hodge

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Is it not officially? I'd class it as, or parts of it

Officially, no. By definition, no.

timsey tiger

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I think what he's trying to say is the age structure is different in third world countries. Life expectancy is less.

Think about it for a second. What do they die of? They are not all perfectly healthy running around playing cricket until they die suddenly in their sleep aged 60.

Sh1t kills you a lot earlier when you are poor, we can see that effect, even in Ireland. We can't assume covid mortality levels will be similar for the same age ranges in different countries.

ginoginelli

niallo27 wrote: »

They have lost the public now, the restrictions mean nothing.

I dont think that's the case. The politicians may have proved themselves hypocritical and self serving again, but that's nothing new. Most people realize we have to restrict our movements and activities to suppress the virus. Just because calleary and his cronies act the maggot it doesn't mean we have to.

CalamariFritti

Wanderer78 wrote: »

And my point is, maybe they just don't have the resources to

I'd agree with you they probably don't. But whatever the reason for their in part unhindered spread they had a lot of covid exposure already and while absolute numbers look big within a big population their covid deaths over population % is still very small.

FintanMcluskey

johnire wrote: »

Can you explain that?

Citizens of 3rd world countries have genuine problems.

Like the 5 million people who starved to death this year.

Covid is a 1st world problem

Pulsating Star

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Or maybe they just don't have the resources to deal with the virus, I'm sure these countries are terrified of this virus, but their health care systems are simply unable to deal with it, seems that way in India anyway

On a positive note re some of the world’s least resourced countries.
I was watching one of Dr John Campbell’s videos lately which focused on studies been done in Some African countries which indicated outcomes many multiples better than expected. Much better than even the lower average age can explain. Medics are working hard to figure out why.
South Africa though seems to buck the trend so far and follow the European norms.
Been looking but haven’t found the relevant link as yet.

PokeHerKing

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Its maybe just on a massively larger scale.

It appears that new cases begin to shallow out and they have 55,000 deaths right now. Thats 0.004% of their population.

I think what he's trying to say is the age structure is different in third world countries. Life expectancy is less.

Like most countries theres not a hope in hell their figures are accurate. I'm sure like everywhere else when all is said and done their excess mortality will indicate somewhere in the region if x5 deaths.

Westernyelp

FintanMcluskey wrote:

Covid is a 1st world problem

This is an idiotic comment

FintanMcluskey

PokeHerKing wrote: »

Like most countries theres not a hope in hell their figures are accurate. I'm sure like everywhere else when all is said and done their excess mortality will indicate somewhere in the region if x5 deaths.

Id imagine the opposite.

Rather normal year on year death rates averaged out

ACitizenErased

HSE Daily Operations Update

19 in hospital, increase of 2
3 confirmed cases today, Beaumont, Letterkenny and St. Vincent's.
6 in ICU and 3 ventilated, no change

Tallaght (+1) - 4
UHL (--) - 4
Connolly (--) - 2
Beaumont (-1) - 1
Drogheda (--) - 1
Letterkenny (+1) - 1
Mater (--) - 1
Naas (--) - 1
Mullingar (--) - 1
South Tipp (--) - 1
St. Vincent's (+1) - 1
Tullamore (--) - 1
UHK (-1) - 0

timsey tiger

Pulsating Star wrote: »

On a positive note re some of the world’s least resourced countries.
I was watching one of Dr John Campbell’s videos lately which focused on studies been done in Some African countries which indicated outcomes many multiples better than expected. Much better than even the lower average can explain. Medics are working hard to figure out why.
South Africa though seems to buck the trend so far and follow the European norms.
Been looking but haven’t found the relevant link as yet.

I suspect all of this is just a result of the different structures of societies. I suspect that mobility within country is a lot lower than within Europe and especially so lower for poorer older groups and what is happening is just the covid 19 pandemic on super slow motion.

PokeHerKing

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Id imagine the opposite.

Rather normal year on year death rates averaged out

Howd you figure that one chief?

niallo27

Westernyelp wrote: »

This is an idiotic comment

Why so, these countries have much bigger problems to deal with than covid.

timsey tiger

niallo27 wrote: »

Why so, these countries have much bigger problems to deal with than covid.

And covid will make all of them worse.

PokeHerKing

niallo27 wrote: »

Why so, these countries have much bigger problems to deal with than covid.

No I reckon its more like having a hole in your roof and then it starts to piss rain.

FintanMcluskey

PokeHerKing wrote: »

Howd you figure that one chief?

Are you suggesting Ireland will see circa 8500 excess death's this year chief?

PokeHerKing

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Are you suggesting Ireland will see circa 8500 excess death's this year chief?

No but I did say 'most' countries. Going by our curre t excess deaths we've actually over counted our covid deaths by about 500.

But we certainly won't have zero excess deaths. So you'll have to explain your thinking to me like I'm a golden retriever I'm afraid.

CalamariFritti

PokeHerKing wrote: »

Like most countries theres not a hope in hell their figures are accurate. I'm sure like everywhere else when all is said and done their excess mortality will indicate somewhere in the region if x5 deaths.

But that would still be not enough to shut their entire country down over. Even if they could.

FintanMcluskey

PokeHerKing wrote: »

No but I did say 'most' countries. Going by our curre t excess deaths we've actually over counted our covid deaths by about 500.

But we certainly won't have zero excess deaths. So you'll have to explain your thinking to me like I'm a golden retriever I'm afraid.

Will we take Italys figure and presume they will have 175k excess deaths.

road_high

Pulsating Star wrote: »

On a positive note re some of the world’s least resourced countries.
I was watching one of Dr John Campbell’s videos lately which focused on studies been done in Some African countries which indicated outcomes many multiples better than expected. Much better than even the lower average age can explain. Medics are working hard to figure out why.
South Africa though seems to buck the trend so far and follow the European norms.
Been looking but haven’t found the relevant link as yet.

Maybe they have much stronger immune systems than molly coddled westerners?
Think of all the dangers and risks people in developing countries are exposed to daily. Covid 19 is likely the least of their and their bodies worries...

BorneTobyWilde

It's really really funny how people ''act'' surprised what Fianna Fáil get up to when in power. They must laugh like hyena's behind closed door at how fscking stupid the Irish people are for electing them over and over and over. While in public acting like they care.

PokeHerKing

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Will we take Italys figure and presume they will have 175k excess deaths.

No similar to Spain I think they're around x2 excess deaths. I would say the less developed the country the higher that multiple will be. So x5 for India is possibly conservative.

But I'm much more interested in hearing your zero excess deaths theory rather than arguing the semantics of my excess deaths theory.

But remember, golden retriever.

Ce he sin

PokeHerKing wrote: »

No but I did say 'most' countries. Going by our curre t excess deaths we've actually over counted our covid deaths by about 500.

But we certainly won't have zero excess deaths. So you'll have to explain your thinking to me like I'm a golden retriever I'm afraid.

There's a theory, strongly held by some, that people who die of Covid were going to die this year anyway and so deaths for the year as a whole will be no higher than usual.
This is not a theory for which any evidence has yet been produced.

FintanMcluskey

PokeHerKing wrote: »

No similar to Spain I think they're around x2 excess deaths. I would say the less developed the country the higher that multiple will be. So x5 for India is possibly conservative.

But I'm much more interested in hearing your zero excess deaths theory rather than arguing the semantics of my excess deaths theory.

But remember, golden retriever.

Ok so now its only India not most countries.

Are we debunking your 5x theory?

PokeHerKing

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Ok so now its only India not most countries.

Are we debunking your 5x theory?

OK ok, you're quite the salesman. Let's meet in the middle and say the world will be x2.5 excess deaths by EOY.

Now cmon, let's hear your zero excess deaths theory?

FintanMcluskey

PokeHerKing wrote: »

OK ok, you're quite the salesman. Let's meet in the middle and say the world will be x2.5 excess deaths by EOY.

Now cmon, let's hear your zero excess deaths theory?

Ok. We will go with 3% excess deaths.

Ireland has about 3% excess death's.

The official Covid death stats are at about 2% of the total worldwide death toll.

3% isn't much of a deviation

Non solum non ambulabit

timsey tiger wrote: »

And covid will make all of them worse.

Most of these countries have really young populations so Covid is not impacting them as much e.g. 40% of the Afghan population is under 15. Access to clean water is a much bigger issue killing millions every year with Diarrhoeal diseases including half a million under 5s

It's western countries that have very large populations over 70 that are really been impacted i.e. 1st world

Non solum non ambulabit

PokeHerKing wrote: »

No but I did say 'most' countries. Going by our curre t excess deaths we've actually over counted our covid deaths by about 500.

But we certainly won't have zero excess deaths. So you'll have to explain your thinking to me like I'm a golden retriever I'm afraid.

Unknown yet but the last 2 months have seen less deaths in Ireland than the average.

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps

FintanMcluskey

Non solum non ambulabit wrote: »

It's western countries that have very large populations over 70 that are really been impacted i.e. 1st world

Word of warning, dont say that in here, some take offense

PokeHerKing

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Ok. We will go with 3% excess deaths.

Ireland has about 3% excess death's.

The official Covid death stats are at about 2% of the total worldwide death toll.

3% isn't much of a deviation

OK so we've debunked your zero excess deaths quick enough. Glad to get you on board.


So Mexico has about 30% excess deaths. So I'm unsure where that leaves us Fintan?

FintanMcluskey

PokeHerKing wrote: »

OK so we've debunked your zero excess deaths quick enough. Glad to get you on board.


So Mexico has about 30% excess deaths. So I'm unsure where that leaves us Fintan?

We can't debunk the theory until the year end.

Vulnerable people died quickly, rising the death rate early on.

The subsequent months had a lower than normal death rate, in Ireland anyway.

The excess deaths can be calculated at the year end.

No winners medals are handed out at half time

ACitizenErased

Brazil's infection levels are stable/declining according to the WHO. Good news.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-coronavirus-health-brazil-idUSKBN25H2QM?taid=5f404d44666bd20001334a7f&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

stephenjmcd

https://twitter.com/RobOHanrahan/status/1296940553691693057?s=19

Ronan|Raven

stephenjmcd wrote: »

https://twitter.com/RobOHanrahan/status/1296940553691693057?s=19

It gets better and better!

FintanMcluskey

stephenjmcd wrote: »

https://twitter.com/RobOHanrahan/status/1296940553691693057?s=19

The writer's of father Ted need to get to work on a series about this.

Its wrote itself though

PokeHerKing

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

We can't debunk the theory until the year end.

Vulnerable people died quickly, rising the death rate early on.

The subsequent months had a lower than normal death rate, in Ireland anyway.

The excess deaths can be calculated at the year end.

No winners medals are handed out at half time

You debunked your own theory chief. You went from zero excess deaths to 3% all on your own.

Gerry Hatrick

stephenjmcd wrote: »

https://twitter.com/RobOHanrahan/status/1296940553691693057?s=19

Lol. These guys. Pure crooks.

FintanMcluskey

PokeHerKing wrote: »

You debunked your own theory chief. You went from zero excess deaths to 3% all on your own.

Ok well leave it at that. Ill let you win

Assetbacked

Wanderer78 wrote: »

So our governments are conspiring against us, yea? Noting once again, this is not a flu, this is far more serious than a flu!

"Far more serious", no it isn't. It is the flu without a vaccine for the vulnerable. The death rates in the under 70s age group are fairly low and conservatively estimated but in Ireland they are exceptionally conservative given the strict criteria around testing back in March. The data, to be clear, confirms generally that this is an old person's virus, ie over 65/70. By focusing on restricting all of society it means the net of protection is spread too thin when the focus should be shifted towards this age category.

For example, allowing people to go about their lives pretty much as normal but with strong education campaigns on protecting the elderly eg blanket requirements for elderly hours in shops, visible ads on how to interact with an elderly person to reduce a risk to them, implementing processes to ensure cases of covid for elderly persons are quickly identified so they can be treated and of course general health advice (ie wholefoods, plant based diet, no alcohol, sleep enough, lots of water, not overweight and exercise). As well, to use a mix of humour and satire as to what was said to young people getting fed up at the beginning of lockdown, maybe a campaign to guilt people into getting their granny a Netflix subscription so they can sit at home and wait it out.

FintanMcluskey

Assetbacked wrote: »

"Far more serious", no it isn't. It is the flu without a vaccine for the vulnerable. The death rates in the under 70s age group are fairly low and conservatively estimated but in Ireland they are exceptionally conservative given the strict criteria around testing back in March. The data, to be clear, confirms generally that this is an old person's virus, ie over 65/70. By focusing on restricting all of society it means the net of protection is spread too thin when the focus should be shifted towards this age category.

For example, allowing people to go about their lives pretty much as normal but with strong education campaigns on protecting the elderly eg blanket requirements for elderly hours in shops, visible ads on how to interact with an elderly person to reduce a risk to them, implementing processes to ensure cases of covid for elderly persons are quickly identified so they can be treated and of course general health advice (ie wholefoods, plant based diet, no alcohol, sleep enough, lots of water, not overweight and exercise).

It frustrates me to hear the flu comparisons.

The flu is rather dangerous, especially for children, and has lead to fatalities in babies.

completedit

Assetbacked wrote: »

"Far more serious", no it isn't. It is the flu without a vaccine for the vulnerable. The death rates in the under 70s age group are fairly low and conservatively estimated but in Ireland they are exceptionally conservative given the strict criteria around testing back in March. The data, to be clear, confirms generally that this is an old person's virus, ie over 65/70. By focusing on restricting all of society it means the net of protection is spread too thin when the focus should be shifted towards this age category.

For example, allowing people to go about their lives pretty much as normal but with strong education campaigns on protecting the elderly eg blanket requirements for elderly hours in shops, visible ads on how to interact with an elderly person to reduce a risk to them, implementing processes to ensure cases of covid for elderly persons are quickly identified so they can be treated and of course general health advice (ie wholefoods, plant based diet, no alcohol, sleep enough, lots of water, not overweight and exercise).

Very interesting second half. There's been next to nothing in the way of advice on improving people's health during this time. A serious concerted message for people to improve their health, rather than wrapping people in cotton wool, would have been a far better use for the last 6 months. We're all helpless prey just waiting to be picked off by these marauding virus or so the official word goes.

Assetbacked

completedit wrote: »

Very interesting second half. There's been next to nothing in the way of advice on improving people's health during this time. A serious concerted message for people to improve their health, rather than wrapping people in cotton wool, would have been a far better use for the last 6 months. We're all helpless prey just waiting to be picked off by these marauding virus or so the official word goes.

Lifestyle illnesses in the West are many cancers and particularly heart disease, caused by poor diet and lack of exercise resulting in obesity. There is a trend to go after a pill rather than by doing the simple thing of not putting that **** stuff into your mouth, instead eating the food that didn't have packaging or an advertising campaign in order to get you to buy it, sleep enough to recharge your body, drink water to keep the engine ticking smoothly and exercising to get that weight off and those enjoyable hormones going will be your best weapon against covid and generally poor health. Easier said than done of course but when you are being chased by diseases such as covid and heart disease, among others (sexual health, as another example), that can help with motivation. It's not all or nothing, just don't overdo the alcohol and junk "food".

PokeHerKing

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Ok well leave it at that. Ill let you win

Don't be like that Fintan. You were so keen on semantics not too long ago. I assumed you enjoyed the wrangling.

Ha Long Bay

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

It frustrates me to hear the flu comparisons.

The flu is rather dangerous, especially for children, and has lead to fatalities in babies.

Just want to be sure I understand this comment correctly are you saying Covid is less dangerous than a typical flu?

FintanMcluskey

PokeHerKing wrote: »

Don't be like that Fintan. You were so keen on semantics not too long ago. I assumed you enjoyed the wrangling.

I love wrangling for days in fact.

But I'm using my phone and its hard to google figures on this, and I don't want to make a mistake and have my credibility diminished on this site!

Assetbacked

john4321 wrote: »

Just want to be sure I understand this comment correctly are you saying Covid is less dangerous than a typical flu?

Dismissing it as being similar to the flu undermines the seriousness of the flu is my understanding of the post, particularly with reference to the baby deaths the flu has caused.