Covid 19 Part XXI-27,908 in ROI (1,777 deaths) 6,647 in NI (559 deaths)(22/08)Read OP

s1ippy

ACitizenErased wrote: »

The first Irish prisoner has tested positive in Dochas Women’s Prison, Dublin. Was in quarantine and tested upon arrival.

Might recommend my friends in education go and work there instead.

I was a teacher, can't even express my relief at having gotten a new job just in the nick of time. I left because although it's fulfilling to watch your students grow and mature (and it can be a great laugh), it's a thankless profession and the public absolutely detest teachers for whatever reason. This whole pandemic has really shown that, and we're going to be fairly hard pushed to find new recruits if teachers are badly hit by this (my money is on "they will be"). Looks like the era of schools as (effectively) free childcare is coming to an end.

Back in April, the death rate was between 20 and 50, until the middle of May when it dropped to about 10. I wonder will we see those numbers again in winter.

Jinglejangle69

Strumms wrote: »

“Keep the world going”... I didn’t know that was the prime of indeed any responsibility of a parent as part of their daily regular lives but you live and learn. They should ALL be given a cape with a big ‘S’ on the back.

Right.

Parents who have accepted the responsibility of having children are primarily responsible for their welfare and wellbeing. That’s not even up for debate.

Yep.

And to do all that you need money.

Who's going to provide that if every parent has to raise their child every hour of the week whilst they can't work?

Martina1991

xhomelezz wrote:

It's not only about taking tens of thousands swabs a day, but be able to process them and trace contacts as fast as possible.

The number of tests released each day is the number of tests analysed and processed each day.

We dont know much about the system of communicating these reuslts. Is it automated, does it work 9-5, 8-8. Is it prone to delays when there is ~13k results to send out.

Jinglejangle69

Gerry Hatrick wrote: »

Weirdest post iv'e read on the forum thus far.

I know you've a point but i'll be darned if i know what it is

My point is smoking is a public health danger.

Why doesn't the government ban smoking?

ACitizenErased

DebDynamite wrote: »

With regards the hospital numbers, someone posted a few days ago (may have been a quote from Philip Nolan, though I could be wrong), that although children are showing up in the stats as having been treated in hospital for Covid, no child had actually been hospitalised purely for Covid. In the majority of cases, they presented to hospital for a different reason and were routinely tested upon arrival and subsequently tested positive.

I wonder how many of those 19 currently in hospital fall under the same category?

Most who tested positive at the beginning were hospitalised without a reason. I remember in March in Cork there was 3 lads who tested positive after returning from Italy and they were immediately admitted to the Mercy hospital for no particular reason other than as a precaution.

Non solum non ambulabit

DebDynamite wrote: »

With regards the hospital numbers, someone posted a few days ago (may have been a quote from Philip Nolan, though I could be wrong), that although children are showing up in the stats as having been treated in hospital for Covid, no child had actually been hospitalised purely for Covid. In the majority of cases, they presented to hospital for a different reason and were routinely tested upon arrival and subsequently tested positive.

I wonder how many of those 19 currently in hospital fall under the same category?

Very good point. I'd say at least 2 or 3 which is a huge percentage of total.

ACitizenErased

Non solum non ambulabit wrote: »

Very good point. I'd say at least 2 or 3 which is a huge percentage of total.

There were 3 cases confirmed in hospitals yesterday alone which arose as a result of hospital testing

Strumms

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

1.35 million die on the worlds roads each year.

Do the comparrison in your head

Covid has killed around 800,000 worldwide already so by the years end, worldwide covid, give or take... it’s going to responsible for adding another 1.2 million deaths on this planet.

Non solum non ambulabit

ACitizenErased wrote: »

There were 3 cases confirmed in hospitals yesterday alone which arose as a result of hospital testing

Thanks. There you go.

Santy2015

Excellent front page by the Examiner
https://twitter.com/irishexaminer/status/1297122620643606528?s=21

FintanMcluskey

Strumms wrote: »

Covid has killed around 800,000 worldwide already so by the years end, worldwide covid, give or take... it’s going to responsible for adding another 1.2 million deaths on this planet.

Not so, the median age of death in Ireland and the facilities those people resided in, suggests the people that passed on were unlikely to survive this year regardless.

Now please don't respond with faux outrage, its a fact of life

ACitizenErased

Be interesting to see case numbers today after big numbers the last two saturdays, there doesn’t seem to be any backlog

polesheep

Martina1991 wrote: »

Your link didn't work so i dont know what site you were on about.

1. Using a private company to do anything would cost a fortune. The HSE wouldn't have any control over their procedures, standards or accreditation.
2. Who's to say this "new test" is even reliable.
3. It would still require analysis at the same labs where swabs are being processed. We don't have the capacity to process an extra ~5 million tests a month.
4. People won't comply. A fine isn't much of a threat when people dont pay for their tv licenses in the first place.

You can get a private Covid test done for less than the cost of the HSE test.

ExMachina1000

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Not so, the median age of death in Ireland and the facilities those people resided in, suggests the people that passed on were unlikely to survive this year regardless.

Now please don't respond with faux outrage, its a fact of life

Any evidence that all of the unfortunate grandparents who passed in the nursing homes "were unlikely to survive this year regardless "?

Have you ever heard of the term Sociopath?

Thierry12

Strumms wrote: »

Covid has killed around 800,000 worldwide already so by the years end, worldwide covid, give or take... it’s going to responsible for adding another 1.2 million deaths on this planet.

Is that not his point?

As dangerous as driving?

Jinglejangle69

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Any evidence that all of the unfortunate grandparents who passed in the nursing homes "were unlikely to survive this year regardless "?

Have you ever heard of the term Sociopath?

650,000 died from flu last year.

I take it you care about those deaths as much as covid deaths.

polesheep

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Not so, the median age of death in Ireland and the facilities those people resided in, suggests the people that passed on were unlikely to survive this year regardless.

Now please don't respond with faux outrage, its a fact of life

Prior to Covid if you were walking down the street talking to a friend about last night's match and met a neighbour who informed you that his granny had died you would give your sympathies, say goodbye and walk on with your friend while continuing to talk about the match. Now, you're supposed to fall on the ground wailing and weeping because of another Covid death. In fact, you shouldn't really be out walking with your friend at all. Absolute nonsense.

ExMachina1000

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

650,000 died from flu last year.

I take it you care about those deaths as much as covid deaths.

I'm talking about Irish elderly people who your pal said were unlikely to see out the rest of the year.

Your whataboutery is irrelevant

DebDynamite

ACitizenErased wrote: »

There were 3 cases confirmed in hospitals yesterday alone which arose as a result of hospital testing

That’s interesting. So due to current testing nearly being at an all time high and therefore finding more cases, the thinking seemed to be that it was hospitalisations and deaths we need to watch to give us a true indication of how serious things were. Now it seems the numbers being hospitalised aren’t really giving us the true picture either. We are probably averaging 3-4 deaths per week, some of these could possibly even be historical.

Speak Now

Strumms wrote: »

I’ve just been talking on the phone to a friend of mine who is an SNA in a school, LOVES her job but dreading going back, absolutely dreading it... she is in a class with kids one or two which have learning / behavioral issues too...

Shes an SNA, what kind of class was she expecting to be in?

prunudo

niallo27 wrote: »

She sounds lazy to me, wants to sit on her hole on full pay. I'm working through all this, I follow the rules, why can't she. Does she expect full pay for doing **** all.

In times past I'd probably have had a similar point of view but my oh works in child care and hasn't been in work since March. She is dreading going back in September, no amount of my reassurance can allay her fears. But i dont blame her, she's been at home listening to hysteria from the news and social media for months. Its now ingrained in her about this serious illness and how she could pick it up at every turn.
The only way that she will concur the fear is to get back to work, but with every extension of the timeframe it gets worse. She needs to get back to some sort of normality before she cracks up.

khalessi

niallo27 wrote: »

Our company is actually very strict, I'm happy to be working actually, I'm contracting so was worried I'd be let go. I'm more worried about providing for my family than the virus actually. I'm doing the simple things and I'm not fearful of the virus.

I think that is great. I am glad they are being so strict and looking after your safety.

The Dept have not been so forthcoming. We looked at MM in a school the other day that has a total of 196 students and perspex sheeting lowered from ceiling. Lovely optics all for pr. How about going into the biggest secondary school or looking at a variety of schools. Maybe class photos should be put up on internet for comparison.

Should teachers stay stum and not complain about the lack of health and safety for students? Even the Depts own plans have students 40cm apart on the plans. Perspex is lovely but the teacher cannnot stand behind it all day, that isnt teaching. A lot of schools are not providing perspex.

How consistent is it that a 12 year old secondary student on a bus has to wear a mask but a 12 year primary student doesnt?

Students with special educational needs are being further disadvantaged as their Speacial education teacher will be covering all over school for absences. These children are on the backfoot already.

My school is one of 16 schools put together in a group for 4 substitute teachers covering absences.

There is no thought really post the day 1 reopening of schools. What about children who get sick and cannot be collected, I hav often seen children waiting an hour or so as parents are in a difficult position getting off work.

What about parents of children who are at risk who are worried about being chased by TUSLA? Where is the planning for that? Why wasn't the Dept working on a plan for them or any parent who wishes to keep their child home?

I think the Dept has let down parents, children, and teachers. Parents are told that they are the primary educators in our constitution but there has been no back up plan if they decide to keep children home and worry about TUSLA.

Back in March HCW were not being provided with proper PPE and had to bring this to public attention eventually getting a committment from gov to supply PPE brought in by plane from China.

Would it have been better if HCWs kept quiet?

Now numbers have fallen in our hopsitals and ICU but the schools have been closed and all experts admit sending them back is a high risk. Teachers have been working hard to get schools reopen but they are voicing the dangers.

Do you think they should stay quiet and say nothing or voice concerns get them sorted and make sure the environment is as safe as possible for children?

Personally I am concerned but I have worked in highly infectious environments before and not caught anything not brought anything home. However in that cases proper efforts were made to protect the workers.

There will be pockets of crises when the schools reopen but hopefully they will be dealt with properly. There is a vacuum of leadership from the top of the Dept down and that should be fixed.

Wanderer78

Jinglejangle69 wrote:

I take it you care about those deaths as much as covid deaths.

Covid may have far more serious after effects compared to the flu

Strumms

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Any evidence that all of the unfortunate grandparents who passed in the nursing homes "were unlikely to survive this year regardless "?

Have you ever heard of the term Sociopath?

Exactly how it is sounding, worrying.

niallo27

prunudo wrote: »

In times past I'd probably have had a similar point of view but my oh works in child care and hasn't been in work since March. She is dreading going back in September, no amount of my reassurance can allay her fears. But i dont blame her, she's been at home listening to hysteria from the news and social media for months. Its now ingrained in her about this serious illness and how she could pick it up at every turn.
The only way that she will concur the fear is to get back to work, but with every extension of the timeframe it gets worse. She needs to get back to some sort of normality before she cracks up.

Maybe I was harsh, I don't know what its like being stuck at home the whole time. I have been constantly surrounded by people following the guidelines and social distancing so the workplace is normal to me.

What Username Guidelines

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Most who tested positive at the beginning were hospitalised without a reason. I remember in March in Cork there was 3 lads who tested positive after returning from Italy and they were immediately admitted to the Mercy hospital for no particular reason other than as a precaution.

And a good lot (6 or so?) in the Mater that returned from a ski trip in a group with a nurse. Nurse insisted on a test before returning to work, even without symptoms. She was positive so the rest of the group were tested and all the positives were hospitalised as a precaution. There was an interview with one of the group, a solicitor from Wicklow, who never developed symptoms but continued to test positive. Was discharged after 2 neg tests, 2 days in a row.

Tork

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Covid may have far more serious after effects compared to the flu

That doesn't suit the narrative of the people who now like to bandy around buzzwords like hysteria and fear.

niallo27

khalessi wrote: »

I think that is great. I am glad they are being so strict and looking after your safety.

The Dept have not been so forthcoming. We looked at MM in a school the other day that has a total of 196 students and perspex sheeting lowered from ceiling. Lovely optics all for pr. How about going into the biggest secondary school or looking at a variety of schools. Maybe class photos should be put up on internet for comparison.

Should teachers stay stum and not complain about the lack of health and safety for students? Even the Depts own plans have students 40cm apart on the plans. Perspex is lovely but the teacher cannnot stand behind it all day, that isnt teaching. A lot of schools are not providing perspex.

How consistent is it that a 12 year old secondary student on a bus has to wear a mask but a 12 year primary student doesnt?

Students with special educational needs are being further disadvantaged as their Speacial education teacher will be covering all over school for absences. These children are on the backfoot already.

My school is one of 16 schools put together in a group for 4 substitute teachers covering absences.

There is no thought really post the day 1 reopening of schools. What about children who get sick and cannot be collected, I hav often seen children waiting an hour or so as parents are in a difficult position getting off work.

What about parents of children who are at risk who are worried about being chased by TUSLA? Where is the planning for that? Why wasn't the Dept working on a plan for them or any parent who wishes to keep their child home?

I think the Dept has let down parents, children, and teachers. Parents are told that they are the primary educators in our constitution but there has been no back up plan if they decide to keep children home and worry about TUSLA.

Back in March HCW were not being provided with proper PPE and had to bring this to public attention eventually getting a committment from gov to supply PPE brought in by plane from China.

Would it have been better if HCWs kept quiet?

Now numbers have fallen in our hopsitals and ICU but the schools have been closed and all experts admit sending them back is a high risk. Teachers have been working hard to get schools reopen but they are voicing the dangers.

Do you think they should stay quiet and say nothing or voice concerns get them sorted and make sure the environment is as safe as possible for children?

Personally I am concerned but I have worked in highly infectious environments before and not caught anything not brought anything home. However in that cases proper efforts were made to protect the workers.

There will be pockets of crises when the schools reopen but hopefully they will be dealt with properly. There is a vacuum of leadership from the top of the Dept down and that should be fixed.

All fair points, my post was harsh. You have opened my eyes to issues I didn't know about.

Strumms

Speak Now wrote: »

Shes an SNA, what kind of class was she expecting to be in?

Not everyone will be aware of an SNA or what they do, hence it being mentioned.

She fully expected to be in the class she’s in

Micky 32

Tork wrote: »

That doesn't suit the narrative of the people who now like to bandy around buzzwords like hysteria and fear.

Look there’s no law against spreading hysteria and fear. If that’s what you want to do go ahead, no one is stopping you doing that.

prunudo

niallo27 wrote: »

Maybe I was harsh, I don't know what its like being stuck at home the whole time. I have been constantly surrounded by people following the guidelines and social distancing so the workplace is normal to me.

And to be fair so have I, social distancing is easy to maintain in my industry. Doing a days work for months has kept the mind busy. Where as she is bored, unsure what future brings, will she/won't she be back at work, not sleeping great. And all the while reading ****e posts on fb, dramatic headlines on the news and hearsay on whatsapp groups. Its easy to look beyond the hysteria when work takes your mind off it but its much harder when stuck at home with time to kill.

Martina1991

polesheep wrote:

You can get a private Covid test done for less than the cost of the HSE test.

And the cost is paid by the consumer.

Paying a private company to do nationwide testing would cost the tax payer millions. Which could effect the provision of other health services.

Tork

Micky 32 wrote: »

Look there’s no law against spreading hysteria and fear. If that’s what you want to do go ahead, no one is stopping you doing that.

polesheep

Martina1991 wrote: »

And the cost is paid by the consumer.

Paying a private company to do nationwide testing would cost the tax payer millions. Which could effect the provision of other health services.

Are the HSE tests not costing the taxpayer millions?

Martina1991

Martina1991 wrote: »

Your link didn't work so i dont know what site you were on about.

1. Using a private company to do anything would cost a fortune. The HSE wouldn't have any control over their procedures, standards or accreditation. To fully open society economy it would pay for itself. Saliva tests will be alot less expensive.


2. Who's to say this "new test" is even reliable.
3. It would still require analysis at the same labs where swabs are being processed. We don't have the capacity to process an extra ~5 million tests a month.
4. People won't comply. A fine isn't much of a threat when people dont pay for their tv licenses in the first place.

https://www.generon.ie/read/newsletter-26/covid-19-saliva-test-in-1-hour-2293.html

Answers:

1. Mass testing can control this. Wuhan tested over 90 per cent of its population after their lockdown to isolate asymptomatic spread. Hse/nvrl could audit their procedures. Saliva tests alot less expensive. If economy could fully reopen. cost would be easily justified.

2. Around 90% accurate. It will pick up most. It doesn't have to be 100%.Its not for people with symptoms.

3. Private labs? Were does this private company process currently? Government private/public partnership to build more capacity in the meantime if needed.

4. If you tell the message to the public that doing this will lead to opening restrictions. It's in all our interests.not very invasive spitting into a tube.


UK government are conducting saliva test trial in Southampton. Seems to be were UK are going on this. Makes total sense.

This will be a big piece of how we go back to normal and live with this properly. Vaccine will not solve all problems.


https://www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-53437555?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=15981006736812&amp_ct=1598100685156&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s

Atlantic Dawn

polesheep wrote: »

Are the HSE tests not costing the taxpayer millions?

€200 a head was mentioned before so €12million a week/€600million a year.

Actually €98 a test so €6 million a week/€300million a year...

Despite Tánaiste Leo Varadkar stating in May that the average cost per test to the State is €200, the department confirmed that the unit cost is approximately €98 per test, albeit with variation depending on the provider.

https://www.thejournal.ie/covid-testing-costs-5163012-Jul2020/

Non solum non ambulabit

polesheep wrote: »

Are the HSE tests not costing the taxpayer millions?

Yes and the closures in the economy 10's of billions

Eod100

Very good! https://twitter.com/RobOHanrahan/status/1297159036572520449?s=19

podgeandrodge

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Not so, the median age of death in Ireland and the facilities those people resided in, suggests the people that passed on were unlikely to survive this year regardless.

Now please don't respond with faux outrage, its a fact of life

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Any evidence that all of the unfortunate grandparents who passed in the nursing homes "were unlikely to survive this year regardless "?

Have you ever heard of the term Sociopath?

Calm the outrage a bit.

From a document online on Irish Nursing Homes:

"Under current health and social care provisions, some 5% of the
older population reside in nursing homes, the average length of stay being less just under 2 years."

I think it's fair to say that when they leave, it's generally not good news.

polesheep

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

€200 a head was mentioned before so €12million a week/€600million a year.

Actually €98 a test so €6 million a week/€300million a year...



https://www.thejournal.ie/covid-testing-costs-5163012-Jul2020/

Don't forget this from the same article:
Capital costs of the centres, equipment and reagent has cost €33 million, as of 3 July.

And this:
The department said that in addition to the one-off costs, there are relatively small costs associated with having the 100,000 capacity on-hand even if it is not used. The HSE estimates that the cost could be €0.3m- €0.7m per week – approximately €10 million – €20 million until the end of the year for not utilising the full 100,000 testing capacity which is available.

Leo's figure looks the more accurate to me.

Non solum non ambulabit

podgeandrodge wrote: »

Calm the outrage a bit.

From a document online on Irish Nursing Homes:

"Under current health and social care provisions, some 5% of the
older population reside in nursing homes, the average length of stay being less just under 2 years."

I think it's fair to say that when they leave, it's generally not good news.

So on average half the residents of nursing home will pass away each year.

Martina1991

Martina1991 wrote: »

And the cost is paid by the consumer.

Paying a private company to do nationwide testing would cost the tax payer millions. Which could effect the provision of other health services.

UK want to spend a billion a month to do weekly tests for entire population. Cost of Covid 19 to economy is est at 300 billion this year. Tests are not at expense of other health services. These tests are an investment in the economy. The extra taxes and less social welfare from opening up fully will more than pay for tests. No brainer to me economically/financially and healthwise to economy.

gozunda

Non solum non ambulabit wrote: »

So on average half the residents of nursing home will pass away each year.

From where arev you getting that piece of deduction?

But nope - not so. Many older people may spend relativity short periods in nursing homes for many reasons including but not limited to care following hospilisation or other non life threatening illness. They may also go there for a period of respite for their carers.

My own mother has spent time on occasion in nursing homes. She's currently home and doing fine.

Trouble with assumptions is just that..

Micky 32

Non solum non ambulabit wrote: »

So on average half the residents of nursing home will pass away each year.

Some people temporary go in nursing homes after major surgery etc to convalesce.

Are there any stats of how many pass away a year in nursing homes? That might give some idea of the picture.

khalessi

Planning a house party at my gaff, limited to 6 though. Hang on, I can invite 30 if ye bring schoolbooks with ye..... no wait, I can invite 40 but we have to say Mass. Or ... I can invite 50 but two of ye have to get married.....no wait I can invite 80 of ye if ye bring your golf clubs ����

Martina1991

polesheep wrote:

Are the HSE tests not costing the taxpayer millions?

Yes, so why add to that by testing the entire population every month.

Woody79 wrote:

1. Mass testing can control this. Wuhan tested over 90 per cent of its population after their lockdown to isolate asymptomatic spread. Hse/nvrl could audit their procedures. Saliva tests alot less expensive. If economy could fully reopen. cost would be easily justified.
2. Around 90% accurate. It will pick up most. It doesn't have to be 100%.Its not for people with symptoms.
3. Private labs? Were does this private company process currently? Government private/public partnership to build more capacity in the meantime if needed.
4. If you tell the message to the public that doing this will lead to opening restrictions. It's in all our interests.not very invasive spitting into a tube.

We are not Wuhan. The service doesnt have the elasticity to mass test the whole country.
There is a hell of a lot more to providing a national service than just "auditing" current procedures.
An absolute s*it tonne of time, money and hours to validate ANOTHER new method, nationwide, with NO investment in staff or support.

From that link:
This would mean a huge ramping up of laboratory testing. Currently the government says it can carry out 300,000 tests a day, but that would need to rise to 10 million a day...
Of course it would be expensive, perhaps £1bn per month...
Compliance would be an issue. How many of us would be prepared to spit in a tube every week?".

People do not care. Every measure, rule and restriction to date has been to suppress the spead, open the economy and people still wont do as they're told, not even government officials.

What Username Guidelines

khalessi wrote: »

Planning a house party at my gaff, limited to 6 though. Hang on, I can invite 30 if ye bring schoolbooks with ye..... no wait, I can invite 40 but we have to say Mass. Or ... I can invite 50 but two of ye have to get married.....no wait I can invite 80 of ye if ye bring your golf clubs ����

Such an ignorant attitude to all of this.

You need to get a few legs of lamb and some butcher knives and you can have 300.

Goldengirl

bb1234567 wrote: »

Thousands of scientists globally confidently came to a consensus of an IFR of 0.65% globally at a WHO conference. You are simply wrong to compare it to an unvaccinated flu. If this comment by you is said to have any validity then we are in the realm of regarding opinion as equal to scientifically backed research. To compare it to flu is a dismissal of science , anti vaxxer level of nonsense that seems to crop up on here daily .

Yes the affected demographic is the same as flu, but covid affects them much more seriously, hence the higher IFR. Some posters seem to have extreme difficulty comprehending this

Excellent post ..+ 100

polesheep

Martina1991 wrote: »

Yes, so why add to that by testing the entire population every month.


We are not Wuhan. The service doesnt have the elasticity to mass test the whole country.
There is a hell of a lot more to providing a national service than just "auditing" current procedures.
An absolute s*it tonne of time, money and hours to validate ANOTHER new method, nationwide, with NO investment in staff or support.

From that link:
This would mean a huge ramping up of laboratory testing. Currently the government says it can carry out 300,000 tests a day, but that would need to rise to 10 million a day...
Of course it would be expensive, perhaps £1bn per month...
Compliance would be an issue. How many of us would be prepared to spit in a tube every week?".

People do not care. Every measure, rule and restriction to date has been to suppress the spead, open the economy and people still wont do as they're told, not even government officials.

I agree with you there. I was referring to your comment that it would cost more privately.

eigrod

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Be interesting to see case numbers today after big numbers the last two saturdays, there doesn’t seem to be any backlog

I wonder does yourdeadwright’s mate only work Mon-Fri