Covid 19 Part XXI-27,908 in ROI (1,777 deaths) 6,647 in NI (559 deaths)(22/08)Read OP

podgeandrodge

podgeandrodge wrote: »

Calm the outrage a bit.

From a document online on Irish Nursing Homes:

"Under current health and social care provisions, some 5% of the
older population reside in nursing homes, the average length of stay being less just under 2 years."

I think it's fair to say that when they leave, it's generally not good news.

Non solum non ambulabit wrote: »

So on average half the residents of nursing home will pass away each year.

gozunda wrote: »

From where arev you getting that piece of deduction?

But nope - not so. Many older people may spend relativity short periods in nursing homes for many reasons including but not limited to care following hospilisation or other non life threatening illness. They may also go there for a period of respite for their carers.

My own mother has spent time on occasion in nursing homes. She's currently home and doing fine.

Trouble with assumptions is just that..

Micky 32 wrote: »

Some people temporary go in nursing homes after major surgery etc to convalesce.

Are there any stats of how many pass away a year in nursing homes? That might give some idea of the picture.

From a US study (acknowledging I don't know if there are variances with quality of care between USA and Ireland):

"In a study of elderly Americans who moved to a nursing home for their final months or years of life, 65 percent died there within one year, according to an investigation by researchers at the San Francisco VA Medical Center and the University of California, San Francisco.

The average age of participants when they moved to a nursing home was about 83. The average length of stay before death was 13.7 months, while the median was five months. Fifty-three percent of nursing home residents in the study died within six months."

To me, it's fair to say that most people going to nursing homes don't spend many years there. I would imagine most residents are there for good.

Martina1991

Martina1991 wrote: »

Yes, so why add to that by testing the entire population every month.


We are not Wuhan. The service doesnt have the elasticity to mass test the whole country.
There is a hell of a lot more to providing a national service than just "auditing" current procedures.
An absolute s*it tonne of time, money and hours to validate ANOTHER new method, nationwide, with NO investment in staff or support.

From that link:
This would mean a huge ramping up of laboratory testing. Currently the government says it can carry out 300,000 tests a day, but that would need to rise to 10 million a day...
Of course it would be expensive, perhaps £1bn per month...
Compliance would be an issue. How many of us would be prepared to spit in a tube every week?".

People do not care. Every measure, rule and restriction to date has been to suppress the spead, open the economy and people still wont do as they're told, not even government officials.

UK has population of 67 million we have 5 million, they say weekly testing there would cost £ one billion per monnth
Would cost millions per month here not billions.

Wuhan is just an illustration of how it can work. We have to devise structures that work for us in this country be it government testing or private testing. We are a capitalist economy after all.

People do care. SD restrictions are very onerous and not natural medium term/long term for people. We are naturally social beings. Mass testing allows us to to go back to being social such as tens of thousands of people in Wuhan meeting up in a waterpark this week. While we are tearing ourselves apart over 80 people having dinner together.

Be right back

khalessi wrote: »

Planning a house party at my gaff, limited to 6 though. Hang on, I can invite 30 if ye bring schoolbooks with ye..... no wait, I can invite 40 but we have to say Mass. Or ... I can invite 50 but two of ye have to get married.....no wait I can invite 80 of ye if ye bring your golf clubs ����

You'll be grand. 81 including yourself. Just partition the room in 2. No-one will argue with you about it.

mandrake04

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.generon.ie/read/newsletter-26/covid-19-saliva-test-in-1-hour-2293.html&ved=2ahUKEwic_o2wyq7rAhWGT8AKHUIoCvIQFjAJegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw2dQ0YAhTs3wcjEi_MVu4-Y&cshid=1598091850670

Why doesn't the government pay private companies like these to send out these new saliva test kits to every household in the country once a month?

Doesn't require a visit to a lab, kits are posted out and sent back to labs.

They were able to send out those stupid postcards why not covid tests?

If the household doesn't do the test there is a financial penalty or even pay people to do tests or a reduction in TV licence?

We will pick up all those people with no symptoms who can then quarantine.

Really your comments made me laugh

You obviously know very little about testing.

These are some sort of retarded POC test, Takes an hour to process 1 test, like you say send out 5 million tests once a month everyone sends them back... the lab to do this.

https://youtu.be/LZmki_DQZB4


its only going take 5 million hours, ok maybe you have 100 staff that's 50,000 hours or 2083 days or 5.7 years ok maybe up the lab staff to 1000 its going take 30 weeks to do all the tests.

mandrake04

is_that_so wrote: »

Not a government call. It would be De Gascun, the NVRl and the DoH/HSE recommendations. They've mentioned different tests at different times. It's all down to how reliable they think they are.

They stick with what they know works...its that simple.

drunkmonkey

Lovin your man's RTE t-shirt, decent turn out it

mandrake04

mandrake04 wrote: »

Really your comments made me laugh

You obviously know very little about testing.

These are some sort of retarded POC test, Takes an hour to process 1 test, like you say send out 5 million tests once a month everyone sends them back... the lab to do this.

https://youtu.be/LZmki_DQZB4


its only going take 5 million hours, ok maybe you have 100 staff that's 50,000 hours or 2083 days or 5.7 years ok maybe up the lab staff to 1000 its going take 30 weeks to do all the tests.

https://www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-53437555?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=15981006736812&amp_ct=1598100685156&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s

Read the article. USA and alot of European countries are going down this route.

Onesea

So it kills 0.65% of those effected. But what percentage of that 0.65 is above 70 years old.
Not a good enough reason for the world to stop turning. We will come out the other side of this being much more resilient towards hysterical media.

mandrake04

mandrake04 wrote: »

They stick with what they know works...its that simple.

Saliva tests would be in addition to the normal testing.

Saliva tests for mass screening.

https://www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-53437555?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=15981006736812&amp_ct=1598100685156&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s

khalessi

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Lovin your man's RTE t-shirt, decent turn out it

What was that for? Was it today?

Non solum non ambulabit

podgeandrodge wrote: »

From a US study (acknowledging I don't know if there are variances with quality of care between USA and Ireland):

"In a study of elderly Americans who moved to a nursing home for their final months or years of life, 65 percent died there within one year, according to an investigation by researchers at the San Francisco VA Medical Center and the University of California, San Francisco.

The average age of participants when they moved to a nursing home was about 83. The average length of stay before death was 13.7 months, while the median was five months. Fifty-three percent of nursing home residents in the study died within six months."

To me, it's fair to say that most people going to nursing homes don't spend many years there. I would imagine most residents are there for good.

Thanks for the data. Expect some blowback for quoting facts. Some on here think nursing homes are retirement villages and not effectively end of life care.

DebDynamite

khalessi wrote: »

What was that for? Was it today?

Yep. Anti-mask, anti-lockdown protest

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/anti-mask-anti-lockdown-protest-planned-for-dublin-on-saturday-1.4336100?mode=amp

Onesea

DebDynamite wrote: »

Yep. Anti-mask, anti-lockdown protest

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/anti-mask-anti-lockdown-protest-planned-for-dublin-on-saturday-1.4336100?mode=amp

Huge turnout, just looking at the fb video.. Shan't make the news.

MerlinSouthDub

khalessi wrote: »

Planning a house party at my gaff, limited to 6 though. Hang on, I can invite 30 if ye bring schoolbooks with ye..... no wait, I can invite 40 but we have to say Mass. Or ... I can invite 50 but two of ye have to get married.....no wait I can invite 80 of ye if ye bring your golf clubs ����

Read Philip Nolan's Twitter thread, as posted here. If there's anything that you disagree with on his logic, then it would be good to hear about it. The reason we are limiting the number of people in your house is so that we can have kids back in school and still keep the virus at bay.

ninebeanrows

Not a mention of the large protest in city on RTÉ website

Ha Long Bay

Sleety_Rain wrote: »

Not a mention of the large protest in city on RTÉ website

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0822/1160698-anti-lockdown-protest/

Jim_Hodge

Onesea wrote: »

Huge turnout, just looking at the fb video.. Shan't make the news.

It's on the RTE News already.

ninebeanrows

john4321 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0822/1160698-anti-lockdown-protest/

Just up now, checked site 5 mins ago and nothing. Thanks

speckle

khalessi wrote: »

Planning a house party at my gaff, limited to 6 though. Hang on, I can invite 30 if ye bring schoolbooks with ye..... no wait, I can invite 40 but we have to say Mass. Or ... I can invite 50 but two of ye have to get married.....no wait I can invite 80 of ye if ye bring your golf clubs ����

Thinking along the same lines... maybe half the number here to physically distance and putting the brass section on a different roof top along with vocalists...:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A31s7K0OCQ

or even in doors at least we would be divide by walls not a hotel partition:p

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ie0EJPcaeSQ

Have a nice weekend everybody... life is too short

mandrake04

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-53437555?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=15981006736812&amp_ct=1598100685156&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s

Read the article. USA and alot of European countries are going down this route.

Ha Ha you really make me laugh now.

You should read it

The way it would work is this: you do your spit test and send it off. Within 24 hours you get a text with the result. If it's positive then you and your family have to self-isolate.

So rather than get swabbed where its sent directly to the lab, you going spit in a bag or cup and send it to the lab by the post or courier?

5 million of them?

khalessi

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

Read Philip Nolan's Twitter thread, as posted here. If there's anything that you disagree with on his logic, then it would be good to hear about it. The reason we are limiting the number of people in your house is so that we can have kids back in school and still keep the virus at bay.

THanks for the explanation be lost without ya.

Martina1991

Woody79 wrote:

Read the article. USA and alot of European countries are going down this route.

Woody79 wrote:

Saliva tests would be in addition to the normal testing.

It doesnt matter what other countries are doing. You have to see whats applicable to Ireland. I wouldnt heed what the USA and UK are doing in terms of testing. The USA is out of control and will use any test they can get their hands on. The UK never consulted Public Health England or their NHS labs to implement testing. The bought millions of pounds worth of antibody tests and then couldnt use them.

There will continue to be "new tests that claim to be better, faster, and cheaper.

Oh it only costs X amount of euro, it only takes Y minutes. It's done on an analyser, sure it couldnt be that hard.

We CANNOT continue ask more and more and more of laboratory services without extra staff and support to do it. Not just money, actual investment.

And thats what people dont understand. What it actually takes to provide mass testing. ON TOP of other routine lab services.

Jim_Hodge

khalessi wrote: »

Planning a house party at my gaff, limited to 6 though. Hang on, I can invite 30 if ye bring schoolbooks with ye..... no wait, I can invite 40 but we have to say Mass. Or ... I can invite 50 but two of ye have to get married.....no wait I can invite 80 of ye if ye bring your golf clubs ����

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

Read Philip Nolan's Twitter thread, as posted here. If there's anything that you disagree with on his logic, then it would be good to hear about it. The reason we are limiting the number of people in your house is so that we can have kids back in school and still keep the virus at bay.

That has been doing the rounds on WhatsApp since yesterday.

mandrake04

Deleted User wrote: »

Saliva tests would be in addition to the normal testing.

Saliva tests for mass screening.

https://www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-53437555?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=15981006736812&amp_ct=1598100685156&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s

Sure :rolleyes:

drunkmonkey

john4321 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0822/1160698-anti-lockdown-protest/

No mention of the anti mask protest which it is, your man is right RTE is the virus....

khalessi

john4321 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0822/1160698-anti-lockdown-protest/

Proof RTE can't count headline hundreds attend in piece mention 500 and photo contradicts that.

Goldengirl

prunudo wrote: »

And to be fair so have I, social distancing is easy to maintain in my industry. Doing a days work for months has kept the mind busy. Where as she is bored, unsure what future brings, will she/won't she be back at work, not sleeping great. And all the while reading ****e posts on fb, dramatic headlines on the news and hearsay on whatsapp groups. Its easy to look beyond the hysteria when work takes your mind off it but its much harder when stuck at home with time to kill.

Great for her to have such support from you , I am sure !

Jim_Hodge

khalessi wrote: »

Proof RTE can't count headline hundreds attend in piece mention 500 and photo contradicts that.

I don't know how many are there but the photo doesn't show more than 500. There could be many more out of shot though.

Ha Long Bay

drunkmonkey wrote: »

No mention of the anti mask protest which it is, your man is right RTE is the virus....

So from the IT article about this protest.

"The protest, which is being organised by the group Health Freedom Ireland with support from Yellow Vest Ireland, has attracted support and publicity from far-right figures, although Health Freedom Ireland has said it is a “non-political organisation”.

The group is led by Maeve Murran, a “kinesiologist” and anti-vaccination campaigner, and Kelly Johnson, a homeopath who has claimed vaccines can cause autism.


"The group said it has planned a peaceful protest which will be addressed by, among others, Dolores Cahill, the chair of the Irish Freedom Party and Ben Gilroy, a self-described anti-eviction campaigner who has been banned from acting as a legal adviser by the courts.

The group has been organising buses from around the country and selling branded merchandise."


Not sure it deserves much airtime to be honest. It's more like a grifter convention.

Martina1991

Martina1991 wrote: »

It doesnt matter what other countries are doing. You have to see whats applicable to Ireland. I wouldnt heed what the USA and UK are doing in terms of testing. The USA is out of control and will use any test they can get their hands on. The UK never consulted Public Health England or their NHS labs to implement testing. The bought millions of pounds worth of antibody tests and then couldnt use them.

There will continue to be "new tests that claim to be better, faster, and cheaper.

Oh it only costs X amount of euro, it only takes Y minutes. It's done on an analyser, sure it couldnt be that hard.

We CANNOT continue ask more and more and more of laboratory services without extra staff and support to do it. Not just money, actual investment.

And thats what people dont understand. What it actually takes to provide mass testing. ON TOP of other routine lab services.

Current situation seems to be working great(see attached) .I thought this was a forum for debate, not don't knock the status quo because your wrong and you simply don't understand. Paul Reid would call the above example as an outlier or some other yarn/spin. People are cross at this stage and rightly so.

drunkmonkey

If I was in Dublin i'd be out showing off my beautiful face as well, nice to see some people call out some of this bull****.

ninebeanrows

It’s a shame there can’t be a proper protest against the management of this crisis that isn’t infiltrated by such fringe elements

drunkmonkey

Oh BLM are out and about as well, could be a clash between the right and left yet.

Assetbacked

DebDynamite wrote: »

Yep. Anti-mask, anti-lockdown protest

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/anti-mask-anti-lockdown-protest-planned-for-dublin-on-saturday-1.4336100?mode=amp

I share the sentiment but protesting is too left wing for me.

stephenjmcd

john4321 wrote: »

So from the IT article about this protest.

"The protest, which is being organised by the group Health Freedom Ireland with support from Yellow Vest Ireland, has attracted support and publicity from far-right figures, although Health Freedom Ireland has said it is a “non-political organisation”.

The group is led by Maeve Murran, a “kinesiologist” and anti-vaccination campaigner, and Kelly Johnson, a homeopath who has claimed vaccines can cause autism.


"The group said it has planned a peaceful protest which will be addressed by, among others, Dolores Cahill, the chair of the Irish Freedom Party and Ben Gilroy, a self-described anti-eviction campaigner who has been banned from acting as a legal adviser by the courts.

The group has been organising buses from around the country and selling branded merchandise."


Not sure it deserves much airtime to be honest. It's more like a grifter convention.

They've been protesting in Dublin most Saturdays for the last few weeks. Usually ends up in a fight with Antifa

https://twitter.com/ssheil94/status/1297156441355309060?s=09

Oranage2

If antifa and the water protesters join too it could be a scene from gangs of new York.

Goldengirl

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Lovin your man's RTE t-shirt, decent turn out it

I hope they all had a big group hug and kiss to prove their point

stephenjmcd

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Oh BLM are out and about as well, could be a clash between the right and left yet.

Nothing new, there's been clashes last few weekends, handbags at best before Gardai stepped in.

drunkmonkey

Oranage2 wrote: »

If antifa and the water protesters join too it could be a scene from gangs of new York.

Antifa are there...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAoKd3We1u8

Goldengirl

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-53437555?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQFKAGwASA%3D#aoh=15981006736812&amp_ct=1598100685156&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s

Read the article. USA and alot of European countries are going down this route.

Mandrake and Martina's point as I read it is that we do not have the staff to PROCESS that amount of tests every week , not the simplicity of the test .

Martina1991

Woody79 wrote:

Current situation seems to be working great(see attached) .I thought this was a forum for debate, not don't knock the status quo because your wrong and you simply don't understand. Paul Reid would call the above example as an outlier or some other yarn/spin. People are cross at this stage and rightly so.

What has contact tracing got to do with laboratory testing. They're two separate services.

And if saliva testing was added to the mix, who's to say that wouldn't delay reporting and contact tracing further.

mandrake04

Martina1991 wrote: »

It doesnt matter what other countries are doing. You have to see whats applicable to Ireland. I wouldnt heed what the USA and UK are doing in terms of testing. The USA is out of control and will use any test they can get their hands on. The UK never consulted Public Health England or their NHS labs to implement testing. The bought millions of pounds worth of antibody tests and then couldnt use them.

There will continue to be "new tests that claim to be better, faster, and cheaper.

Oh it only costs X amount of euro, it only takes Y minutes. It's done on an analyser, sure it couldnt be that hard.

We CANNOT continue ask more and more and more of laboratory services without extra staff and support to do it. Not just money, actual investment.

And thats what people dont understand. What it actually takes to provide mass testing. ON TOP of other routine lab services.

100% Martina, you are not going be able to touch RT-PCR for test window pre-symptomatic testing.

These retard tests rely on people to be in later stages when they are actually sick as they detect chemical changes in the body when its stressed/sick so you miss those who are already infected but yet to show symptoms...and do they work on people who don't have symptoms at all?

MerlinSouthDub

Looks like 157 positive tests yesterday, dashboard just updated.

is_that_so

This might be an interesting experiment!

A German university has organised a series of concerts under coronavirus conditions, hoping the mass experiment involving 4,000 people will determine whether large events can safely resume

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/aug/22/coronavirus-live-news-global-deaths-near-800000-australian-state-of-queensland-brings-in-new-restrictions?page=with:block-5f40f8178f08f9fdc758b5f7#block-5f40f8178f08f9fdc758b5f7

Goldengirl

Goldengirl wrote: »

Mandrake and Martina's point as I read it is tha we do not have the staff to PROCESS that amount of tests every week , not the simplicity of the test .

Private sector?

We have to be really good at something to get out of this.

SD for two years while other countries such as China austrailia Vietnam New Zealand can go back to normal except for putting out little fires from time to time. Its very depressing how reactionary and behind the curve most of Europe is in this and we are very much average in the class in Europe on this. Alot of govt/civil servants going on holidays in August and Paul Reid admitting he had dismantled some of the testing infrasture to save taxpayers money. Total spin to be honest and very conservative and reactionary.

stephenjmcd

157 postive swabs from 6758 tests

drunkmonkey

Facebook live stream, https://www.facebook.com/106659550863842/videos/824383981637579/

fritzelly

stephenjmcd wrote: »

157 postive swabs from 6758 tests

A good few cases left over from yesterday as well?

Oranage2

stephenjmcd wrote: »

157 postive swabs from 6758 tests

Absolutely massive, we need a new game plan, this isn't working and it's going to get worse when the schools open. Best possible outcome is FF say they've made a mistake and say they can't haddle it and let FG have another go at it.

stephenjmcd

fritzelly wrote: »

A good few cases left over from yesterday as well?

I dont have yesterdays numbers to hand but I dont think there's that many.

Pretty sure its fairly close for the last few days, could be about 20 or so out. Open to correction on that though, the numbers are on my laptop