Covid 19 Part XXI-27,908 in ROI (1,777 deaths) 6,647 in NI (559 deaths)(22/08)Read OP

Wolf359f

fritzelly wrote: »

Unless they can provide irrefutable proof house parties are a danger to health there is not a chance in hell the law would make it past the AG

Every time Glynn has been asked about cases resulting from house parties he has deflected as has SD

It is a smoke screen

If it's under the pubic health act, correct.
If it's a separate bill, that's different.
There's plenty of things against the law that have nothing to do with a danger to health.

fritzelly

Wolf359f wrote: »

If it's under the pubic health act, correct.
If it's a separate bill, that's different.
There's plenty of things against the law that have nothing to do with a danger to health.

The only way it would pass is if it is a public health matter - does the constitution not negate any other reason?

speckle

https://www.thejournal.ie/garda-powers-5180261-Aug2020/


https://www.iccl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/ICCL_KYR_Justice_2014_LR.pdf

https://spunout.ie/life/article/your-rights-and-the-gardai

Of course new legislation may change the above but it must be constitutional

Wolf359f

fritzelly wrote: »

The only way it would pass is if it is a public health matter - does the constitution not negate any other reason?

Does the constitution protect me from guards entering my property if i'm slaughtering virgin's with a shotgun in the house?
If i'm cooking up meth and selling it to kids on the doorstep?
The only health being damaged are people on my property, I'm not leaking poison in the air killing the public. Then again a covid party could have the same effect on public health.

fritzelly

Wolf359f wrote: »

Does the constitution protect me from guards entering my property if i'm slaughtering virgin's with a shotgun in the house?
If i'm cooking up meth and selling it to kids on the doorstep?
The only health being damaged are people on my property, I'm not leaking poison in the air killing the public.

Well that would be a crime (under existing law) and gardai would either have to have reasonable suspicion a crime was being committed or obtain a warrant
I know there is reasons a guard can enter a property without a warrant - not disputing that

But when MM wants to make it illegal to have a house party and give gardai blanket permission to enter a property regardless then it's a very large step too far

Again I ask how many cases have been the result of a house party - I know there has been a few idiots scenes but...

Wolf359f

fritzelly wrote: »

Well that would be a crime and gardai would either have to have reasonable suspicion a crime was being committed or obtain a warrant
I know there is reasons a guard can enter a property without a warrant - not disputing that

But when MM wants to make it illegal to have a house party and give gardai blanket permission to enter a property regardless then it's a very large step too far

Again I ask how many cases have been the result of a house party - I know there has been a few idiots scenes but...

I'm thinking the law will be no more than 6 people from 3 households in the same house. You can still have a house party with 6 people outside your household.
He's not going to introduce a law banning house parties (there's no legal definition of a house party), he'll introduce a law banning the 6+ people extra in the house.
Again we don't know the powers that will be issued, but it won't be a blanket permission to enter a property.

Goldengirl

mandrake04 wrote: »

I think if you asked most people who have parents or Grandparents in their 60s or 70s should the government do what it takes to protect those people the best they can ....I would say most would agree these are extraordinary times and yes a bit of extra ‘encouragement’ in doing the right thing is needed... if this include a clip around the ear or a kick up the jacksy then that’s what needs to be done.

The schools and businesses like Pubs have been closed 5 months, people livelihoods are on the line if not in tatters. Yet the Airports are open, people are off to and fro on their Jollies and the virus makes a resurgence.... you have people dancing on bars, throwing house parties etc and people say ah sure it’s grand only a bit of the oul craic.

It’s just not good enough.

Yes , it is not good enough.
However I disagree that it is the majority .
I think the majority of people are still compliant, but are mad as hell that this government have not dealt with issues properly , while some of them{ government} are carrying on as if the rules do not apply to them . Such hypocrisy is untenable in a crisis such as we are in.
We need strong leadership at this time , not a pack of ineffectual has beens who really should sign it over to someone who can deal with it and knows what to do, whomever that may be. Not a great pool at the moment except may be the old pool , or a national government .
Meat factories should be closed until they are compliant.
HSA needs to be legislated to keep a check on said factories and other places of employment.
Covid needs to be included as an occupational illness like TB and Asbestosis , so workers are protected and the government can ensure work practices are safe.
This needs to happen before schools open. as schools are not, and will not be checked until they can be inspected under this legislation.
This is not groundbreaking stuff, it has been brought to the Dail committee and the floor of the Dail all summer by the unions , including mine, the INMO, but has been ignored by our legislators.
Why... because they know that they are bound over to close down areas that are unsafe or pay the price .
Over 8,500 healthcare workers have been infected , for example,so far , and who knows how or if these people will recover , and how it will affect them in their working lives.
This is what our Government should have been doing firstly, and imo is the most important . All this golf sxxx and house party nonsense is smoke and mirrors.

Don't mistake people having a bit of banter on a Saturday night for people who don't give a sxxx,
Some don't, I grant you that ,but most do, whether on one side or the other.

fritzelly

Wolf359f wrote: »

I'm thinking the law will be no more than 6 people from 3 households in the same house. You can still have a house party with 6 people outside your household.
He's not going to introduce a law banning house parties (there's no legal definition of a house party), he'll introduce a law banning the 6+ people extra in the house.
Again we don't know the powers that will be issued, but it won't be a blanket permission to enter a property.

Not trying to be argumentative (you are a reasonable person) but...
Unless the gardai enter the property how do they know how many are in the house, who they are and where they are from?
And therein lies the crux

speckle

So if everybody in the house has covid antibodies/t cells of the right type we can party as it has no public health effects or wear full body PPE
or none of the above if all party goers are cocooning anyway before and after or dance 2meters out the back garden away from each other listening to music, or having an afternoon tea party or if it lasts longer than 15 minutes no... 105 minutes as if we where in a restaurant or we all sign legal waivers or use our common sense not to annoy the neighbours and have the guards call to turn the noise down, can we have 15 people outside or 30 odd people inside like they have in classrooms or is it just the drink angle.... think I might have a zero birthday a year or so from now that I and my guests need to prepare for... I still think the spit on the paper covid test at the door is best

And oh... it really puts people who live on their own i.e. 1 membered households at a disadvantage over say families of 5. They have had it bad all through out this especially if most say if most of their family live in Dublin or down the country.

Wolf359f

fritzelly wrote: »

Not trying to be argumentative (you are a reasonable person) but...
Unless the gardai enter the property how do they know how many are in the house, who they are and where they are from?
And therein lies the crux

I'd assume once they get a call from the public, they would drive out and park outside the house. They would observe and if they see many people enter and exit the property or see a large crowd through the windows/curtains/blinds (more than could possibly live in the house) that would be sufficient evidence enough for them to maybe knock on the door and ask for people's addresses. If they don't oblige, maybe they can ring a judge and get a warrant to enter the property?

fritzelly

Wolf359f wrote: »

I'd assume once they get a call from the public, they would drive out and park outside the house. They would observe and if they see many people enter and exit the property or see a large crowd through the windows/curtains/blinds (more than could possibly live in the house) that would be sufficient evidence enough for them to maybe knock on the door and ask for people's addresses. If they don't oblige, maybe they can ring a judge and get a warrant to enter the property?

They have more serious stuff to be dealing with than monitoring every house that has a bit of music playing and a bbq in the back garden

I look forward to this making the news tomorrow, whilst many a journalist extrapolate from what they hear there is usually more than an element of truth

And with that my eyesight is gone so time for bed - can only play zombie games for so long, my heart cannot take it anymore

Goldengirl

speckle wrote: »

So if everybody in the house has covid antibodies/t cells of the right type we can party as it has no public health effects or wear full body PPE
or none of the above if all party goers are cocooning anyway before and after or dance 2meters out the back garden away from each other listening to music, or having an afternoon tea party or if it lasts longer than 15 minutes no... 105 minutes as if we where in a restaurant or we all sign legal waivers or use our common sense not to annoy the neighbours and have the guards call to turn the noise down, can we have 15 people outside or 30 odd people inside like they have in classrooms or is it just the drink angle.... think I might have a zero birthday a year or so from now that I and my guests need to prepare for... I still think the spit on the paper covid test at the door is best

It's the drink thing, as well as the distance and the indoor air and the length of time...but mainly the drink!

Goldengirl

fritzelly wrote: »

They have more serious stuff to be dealing with than monitoring every house that has a bit of music playing and a bbq in the back garden

I look forward to this making the news tomorrow, whilst many a journalist extrapolate from what they hear there is usually more than an element of truth

And with that my eyesight is gone so time for bed - can only play zombie games for so long, my heart cannot take it anymore

I am going to be awake all night now , wondering about MM :pac:

Wolf359f

fritzelly wrote: »

They have more serious stuff to be dealing with than monitoring every house that has a bit of music playing and a bbq in the back garden

I look forward to this making the news tomorrow, whilst many a journalist extrapolate from what they hear there is usually more than an element of truth

And with that my eyesight is gone so time for bed - can only play zombie games for so long, my heart cannot take it anymore

Don't be silly, they won't be outside every house, there's not enough guards.
They will wait until they get a disturbance call, loud music etc... you know the ones people be complaining about on here and the guards say they can't do anything about. I'm sure the guards can differentiate between a rave in a 1 bedroom apartment and a BBQ out the back in a large garden (then again that's a different restriction as it's outdoors)

Scoondal

Wolf359f wrote: »

Does the constitution protect me from guards entering my property if i'm slaughtering virgin's with a shotgun in the house?
If i'm cooking up meth and selling it to kids on the doorstep?
The only health being damaged are people on my property, I'm not leaking poison in the air killing the public. Then again a covid party could have the same effect on public health.

What is a covid party ?
Stop talking rubbish.
Go to bed.

speckle

Goldengirl wrote: »

It's the drink thing, as well as the distance and the indoor air and the length of time...but mainly the drink!

Giving me ideas a mad hatters tea party outdoors

Scoondal

1,777 deaths.
Journalists stopped from asking questions at a news conference.
Other journalists barred from reporting certain stories until a certain time.
Other good news about covid19 cases in hospitals not reported.
Is this a republic?

pjohnson

Scoondal wrote: »

1,777 deaths.
Journalists stopped from asking questions at a news conference.
Other journalists barred from reporting certain stories until a certain time.
Other good news about covid19 cases in hospitals not reported.
Is this a republic?

Obviously.

prunudo

Where are all these gardai that will breaking up parties going to come from. As it is, there is already a lack of gardai to deal with late night incidents, whether that be anti social behaviour or burglaries

Scoondal

Scoondal wrote: »

1,777 deaths.
Journalists stopped from asking questions at a news conference.
Other journalists barred from reporting certain stories until a certain time.
Other good news about covid19 cases in hospitals not reported.
Is this a republic?

Being a republic says nothing about the level of individual freedom within a country, Just that nominally the country is considered a public matter rather than a private concern such as in a monarchy.

is_that_so

is_that_so wrote: »

This might be an interesting experiment!




https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/aug/22/coronavirus-live-news-global-deaths-near-800000-australian-state-of-queensland-brings-in-new-restrictions?page=with:block-5f40f8178f08f9fdc758b5f7#block-5f40f8178f08f9fdc758b5f7

A report on it.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53875370

is_that_so

Gerry Hatrick wrote: »

Get a load of these lunatics

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0822/1160698-anti-lockdown-protest/

Tin foilers at the ready folks

It's a free country and they are free to do that just as you are free to ignore them!

owlbethere

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

I've been obsessed with COVID since it broke out as a mysterious viral pneumonia in December. I predicted a global pandemic in January and started making relevant preparations here almost three months before we had our lockdown. I have been following the virus - news related to it as well as our ever increasing scientific and medical knowledge in relation to its transmission and effects - since day one.

I don't need to be convinced of the "badness" of COVID. The evidence is all around us. We don't even know the longitudinal effects of it yet (there have been a ton of studies showing that even asymptomatic or mild cases of it leads to long-term problems after recovery including insomnia, migraines, cardiac damage, lung damage, etc). I want to be protected from COVID because (1) it is a deadly and dangerous illness and (2) even with its relatively low fatality rate, its non-fatal cases can still have devastating long-term effects and (3) even if it didn't, I should still be looking out for the rest of my society. I am aware of how little I or any health professionals know about the virus. That is where the source of my fear in the virus lies.

I have not been lied to or manipulated. I am justifiably concerned about a deadly viral vascular disease not just for myself but for society at large and as such I believe there must be restrictions on liberty temporarily so that more of us can enjoy restrictions on liberty permanently in the future.

I would urge you to read up actual scientific articles on the effects of Covid, not just whatever misinformation is coming up on your facebook news feed.

Very good post. Back in February they were saying that this was going to cause flu like symptoms. I copped straight away that this is more than a flu. Its going to be our generation of TB or measles or mumps or rubella or smallpox. Many of us never had the experience or threat of dealing of infectious diseases because of vaccines protecting us. I copped straight away, this is an infection you don't want to get. I'm all for the government to introduce whatever measures they can to break the chain of transmissions and to protect public health.

FintanMcluskey

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I heard before that if people are convinced something is bad enough, they will beg for protection at all costs

I've heard before that people who follow conspiracy theorists and such other gritters will believe anything that their told especially that the man is out to get them. This results in these so called free thinking followers blindly repeating what they read or hear over and over again while ignoring the fact that they have also posted stuff that contradicts what they are blindly repeating.

caveat emptor

That protest seemed a bit mad. But maybe, just maybe Jim Corr has a point.
I'm starting to believe the evidence on this one. Scary mind controlling b*stards.

https://twitter.com/Cleavon_MD/status/1297451453653479425?s=20

Gruffalux

caveat emptor wrote: »

That protest seemed a bit mad. But maybe, just maybe Jim Corr has a point.
I'm starting to believe the evidence on this one. Scary mind controlling b*stards.

https://twitter.com/Cleavon_MD/status/1297451453653479425?s=20

that is very funny

GazzaL

Is anyone still taking this seriously after the Galway fiasco?

iamwhoiam

GazzaL wrote: »

Is anyone still taking this seriously after the Galway fiasco?

yes , I am and will still be careful and stay away from crowds and wear a mask etc .Because despite the lack of leadership and the elite thinking they are somehow different I still dont particularly want to get Covid .

Beasty

Here we go again.....