Covid 19 Part XXI-27,908 in ROI (1,777 deaths) 6,647 in NI (559 deaths)(22/08)Read OP

AlmightyCushion

Goldengirl wrote: »

Totally agree .
I would like my children to be able to wear decent PPE like I have at work, that isn't just window dressing, if it is deemed required by those in authority.
And while I can afford to buy PpE the quality is so goddamn bad , I think it's time a company in Ireland should be making proper standardised masks that work for every Joe Soap in the country, subsidised if necessary .

What makes you think the government set up company that has no prior experience making ppe would make good quality stuff? Good quality PPE is available, you said it yourself, you have it in work.

Subsidising PPE is a different argument. The government doesn't need to set up a factory making the stuff to subsidise it. They could just tender it out to an existing company that makes PPE like they already do with the health service and then post it out to every house.

Micky 32

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

My question is, does that negate the ones that didn't?
It shouldn't. I don't get why we're getting into a pissing contest of who fared well and. who didn', it doesn't matter, it's variable, the main point is there's variable outcomes and no poster should willingly discount them.

It’s obvious just like the other poster my post about the fully recovered doesn’t sit too well with you either. Would you like me to delete the positive post about the people that recovered? Would that make you happy?

Goldengirl

Micky 32 wrote: »

Lol so calling me a liar?

I’m sorry that my happy ending facts don’t fit into that doom and gloom bubble of yours.

This is the post ..

And why do you think I am not happy that people recover , ffs?
I am a nurse , of course everybody that recovers is a bonus .
But my point was that anecdotes do not negate verifiable facts .

But you will come back with some ridiculous perversion of what is a straightforward statement in a blatant attempt to cause a row .
I am ignoring your posts from now .... not worth the aggro.

Strumms

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

What about other medical equipment? Should the state have set up a company for making ventilators back in march? They were in shortage back then, were seen as essential and there was a huge scramble for them by every country in the world at the time. Haven't heard much about them in a while, good thing the state didn't build a ventilator factory.

What about some generic drugs? They're essential. What about swabs for testing? They're absolutely essentials. Why don't we make a factory for them too?

What about other essentials? Toilet paper and pasta supplies were pretty short for a while there. Should the state set up toilet paper and food production companies as well?

The ventilator shortage was global. Ventilators don’t prevent the spread of covid, that’s priority. Masks do, which is why the expeditious manufacturing of masks which when worn, stop the spread of covid is an obvious thing to do. Less covid = less ventilators needed.

Swabs and generic drugs ? There is no shortage for US.

Toilet paper, pasta ? Maybe you can fill us in.

Micky 32

Goldengirl wrote: »

Point is you just did not state that you made a jibe that referred to me saying I would not like that , and name called
That is utter bs , and is very childish way to discuss a point .

Oh give over. Your post “ anecdotal and whataboutery” was insulting when i posted a true fact. It was your polite way of saying i was posting BS. Get over yourself. Like i said people do recover 100% get used to that fact.

Once again i did not call you names.

AlmightyCushion

Strumms wrote: »

The ventilator shortage was global. Ventilators don’t prevent the spread of covid. Masks do, which is why the expeditious manufacturing of masks which when worn, stop the spread of covid is an obvious thing to do. Less covid = less ventilators needed.

Swabs and generic drugs ? There is no shortage for US.

Toilet paper, pasta ? Maybe you can fill us in.

The PPE shortage was global as well. Early on, the was a real worry that countries across the world would not be able to get enough ventilators. You want the state to set up companies to supply essentials so that we don't run out. There are a lot more than just masks that are essential.

Strumms

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

The PPE shortage was global as well. Early on, the was a real worry that countries across the world would not be able to get enough ventilators. You want the state to set up companies to supply essentials so that we don't run out. There are a lot more than just masks that are essential.

Yes, but masks along with the behavior of people, social distancing etc is what IS slowing the spread of this deadly virus.

spookwoman

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

I agree absolutely that people need to take responsibility for their actions but.. if we have clusters in factories that are caused by environment they exist in, including living circumstances, do you not admit it is easier to tackle that as a spotlight effect so it doesn't cause additional contagion across the wider community?

How are you supposed to sort out living conditions when there are not enough houses as it is and again you can't cherry pick one group over another group that are living in the same conditions because they don't work in a meat factory. I agree that proper procedures need to be enforced in the factories. I know if I left something out that could cause an injury in the workplace I'd be in trouble so why can't they do the same if someone deliberately hides their symptoms and doesn't report that they may have covid.

AlmightyCushion

Strumms wrote: »

Yes, but masks along with the behavior of people, social distancing etc is what IS slowing the spread of this deadly virus.

That's fine. If you want the government to provide everyone with masks that can be done by buying them from existing companies that make them. There's no need for the state to set up a company to make them. It's just a needless step that would more than likely waste a lot of time and money and produce poor quality products.

Goldengirl

spookwoman wrote: »

Ref healthcare workers, I know I don't have the years of medical school or nursing school to just jump into their jobs if they get sick, do you or the whole of the adult population of ireland?
There is no proof that viral load is higher in clusters or risk of causing serious illness. Some studies have found high viral load in a symptomatic people.
I don't know why they did not shut down the factories and to be honest you can't provide 100% proof of why they didn't. As for are their lives important, yes they are just like everyone else's.

I don't get where we disagree here except increased clusters in close confinement will lead to a higher viral load .
I don't know why they didn't shut them down when cases started spiralling , except probably intense lobbying , and the fact that they were deemed essential ?
Still should have been shut until tested and controlled.

Strumms

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

That's fine. If you want the government to provide everyone with masks that can be done by buying them from existing companies that make them. There's no need for the state to set up a company to make them. It's just a needless step that would more than likely waste a lot of time and money and produce poor quality products.

More than likely to produce poor quality products, what qualifies you to say “more than likely waste lot of time and money and produce poor quality products” ?

That’s “more than likely” you say ? Where is the evidence to back this outlandish and factually inaccurate claim ?

AlmightyCushion

Strumms wrote: »

Unlikely to produce poor quality products, what qualifies you to say “more than likely waste lot of time and money and produce poor quality products” ?

That’s “more than likely” you say ? Where is the evidence to back this outlandish and factually inaccurate claim ?

You want someone in the government or civil service who has no knowledge of what is involved in creating medical grade PPE to set up a factory providing it. Can you not see how this would lead to disaster? It's a much better idea to just tender it out to an existing company that already makes these masks. There's no need for the government to create a company to do it and take on all the risk and pitfalls that potentially come with it.

Micky 32

Goldengirl wrote: »

But my point was that anecdotes do not negate verifiable facts .

So basically you don’t or want to believe my post about the fully recovered, be honest.Would you like me to delete that positive post then?

Goldengirl

@ Mickey 32

But you will come back with some ridiculous perversion of what is a straightforward statement in a blatant attempt to cause a row .
I am ignoring your posts from now .... not worth the aggro.

Micky 32

Goldengirl wrote: »

@ Mickey 32

But you will come back with some ridiculous perversion of what is a straightforward statement in a blatant attempt to cause a row .
I am ignoring your posts from now .... not worth the aggro.

Good because your replies are tiring, good night

Goldengirl

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

You want someone in the government or civil service who has no knowledge of what is involved in creating medical grade PPE to set up a factory providing it. Can you not see how this would lead to disaster? It's a much better idea to just tender it out to an existing company that already makes these masks. There's no need for the government to create a company to do it and take on all the risk and pitfalls that potentially come with it.

That is what I said a few pages back , as did the poster you are addressing.

AlmightyCushion

Goldengirl wrote: »

That is what I said a few pages back , as did the poster you are addressing.

I know and I'm trying to highlight how it's a terrible idea to get someone who doesn't know anything about making masks to set up a company making masks when you can just get a company that already makes masks to do it for you. The quality will likely be better as that actually know what they are doing and have experience of doing it. It would also likely be cheaper as there world be no start up costs involved and no costs involved in finding their feet like a new company would have.

Strumms

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

You want someone in the government or civil service who has no knowledge of what is involved in creating medical grade PPE to set up a factory providing it. Can you not see how this would lead to disaster? It's a much better idea to just tender it out to an existing company that already makes these masks. There's no need for the government to create a company to do it and take on all the risk and pitfalls that potentially come with it.

No, I want those with that responsibility to mine the expertises of those that will do the job safely..


Same as government or civil service personnel don’t design hospitals

Same as the government or civil service personnel don’t design transport infrastructure.

They garner experience, expertise from... verified experts and proceed..

Just like the would with... a state PPE manufacturing facility.

igCorcaigh

This is an interesting possibility:

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1293372050212626433?s=19

AlmightyCushion

Strumms wrote: »

No, I want those with that responsibility to mine the expertises of those that will do the job safely..


Same as government or civil service personnel don’t design hospitals

Same as the government or civil service personnel don’t design transport infrastructure.

They garner experience, expertise from... verified experts and proceed..

Just like the would with... a state PPE manufacturing facility.

You just proved my point. The government don't own the companies that build hospitals and roads they tender it out to other companies that have that experience and expertise instead of setting up their own company.

Strumms

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

You just proved my point. The government don't own the companies that build hospitals and roads they tender it out to other companies that have that experience and expertise instead of setting up their own company.

You are off on a tangent. You don’t need to ‘build’ anything, the government / state own multiple warehouses... the virtually disused prison service one in D17 be perfect. It’s huge, virtually disused apart from the storage of uniforms, just need to be kitted out.

s1ippy

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Thank you Captain Obvious..

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/i-can-guarantee-were-going-to-see-covid-19-clusters-in-schools-tanaiste-39442662.html

He can't guarantee they will open but he can guarantee we're going to see clusters in them?

Who is going in and getting infected in these hypothetically empty schools?!

AlmightyCushion

Strumms wrote: »

You are off on a tangent. You don’t need to ‘build’ anything, the government / state own multiple warehouses... the virtually disused prison service one in D17 be perfect. It’s huge, virtually disused apart from the storage of uniforms, just need to be kitted out.

It's the same thing. The state has no experience making PPE or running a company that makes PPE just like they have no experience building hospitals and roads or running companies that do.

Strumms

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

It's the same thing. The state has no experience making PPE or running a company that makes PPE just like they have no experience building hospitals and roads or running companies that do.

Running a company that makes PPE isn’t difficult. The government runs the country... to oversee the successful set up of a state controlled ppe manufacturing plant isn’t rocket science.

To leave it to a private company... you run the risk of them taking orders from the highest bidder as the motivation is profit... ie.. the Spanish government say.. “ok, we will give you an extra 3 euro per mask, but we want 100% of your manufacturing output”

MickeyLeari

Strumms wrote: »

Running a company that makes PPE isn’t difficult. The government runs the country... to oversee the successful set up of a state controlled ppe manufacturing plant isn’t rocket science.

To leave it to a private company... you run the risk of them taking orders from the highest bidder as the motivation is profit... ie.. the Spanish government say.. “ok, we will give you an extra 3 euro per mask, but we want 100% of your manufacturing output”

State can and should intervene if there is market failure for essential goods and services. There is not market failure in this case so why intervene? By all means tweak procurement rules so there is an incentive for domestic/EU businesses to manufacture but there is no sense in the State running PPE factories.

igCorcaigh

And more possible cases now in NZ

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1293399843260506112?s=19

igCorcaigh wrote: »

This is an interesting possibility:

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1293372050212626433?s=19

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

I wonder why, a month into this, when it became 100% clear that the only FIX was going to be a vaccine that will be many months to a couple of years away... would the government not have invested 3 million or whatever setting up a PPE factory... making masks mainly , some other ppe and supplying them to the public at cost... if it comes a point where we have enough masks we can say consider stockpiling then exporting masks but for profit that goes back into the coffers.

If it costs 80 cent to make a mask, we can charge say 2.30 to cover manufacturing and associated costs.

Just blitz manufacturing, keep 500,000 in storage for a ‘rainy day’... makes financial, social and healthy sense.

500,000 would not even last a rainy day given we have 5 million people almost. Mask supply does not seem to be an issue at the moment either

drunkmonkey

Unreal we can force everyone to wear a mask but we can't force employees to let their employer know they have covid.... farsical at this stage..

From today's indo
Strict personal privacy laws sparked fears in Government over the potential for meat-­factory workers to hide positive Covid-19 test results from their employers.
A Cabinet subcommittee on the pandemic heard concerns about how data privacy legislation means employees are not required to alert employers to their test results.

Officials are now examining whether business owners can be told if their workforce have tested positive for the virus without being given the personal details of each individual who contracted the virus.

Data protection laws insist the details of anyone who tests negative or positive should not be passed on to a third party, including an employer. This means the onus is on the worker to alert their employer to their test results.

Covid-19: Workers do not have to tell bosses if they test positive

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/covid-19-workers-do-not-have-to-tell-bosses-if-they-test-positive-39443267.html

smurfjed

Manila accepts the Russian vaccine.

MANILA: Philippine President Rodrigo Duterte has accepted a Russian offer to provide a coronavirus vaccine and volunteered to be the first to be “experimented on” once it arrives in the country.

“I’m very happy that Russia is our friend. They want to provide a vaccine, so we are accepting it,” Duterte said in a late-night public address. The Philippines leader offered his “trust and gratitude” to Moscow for its willingness to “share its technology” and cooperate with Manila in the fight against the pandemic.

Taking it up a notch, the tough-talking former mayor of Davao City volunteered to take the first shot of the vaccine. “When the vaccine arrives, I will have myself injected in public, so people won’t say anything. I’ll be the first to get experimented on. It’s fine with me,” Duterte said, before relaying a message for Russian President Vladimir Putin.

“I have great trust in your studies in combatting COVID-19, and I believe that the vaccine that you have produced is really good for humanity,” he said.

Goldengirl

Goldengirl wrote: »

Where did I call you a liar?
You mention an anecdote , I mentioned a documentary .
Then you start name calling .

You don’t believe most people make a full recovery? Can give you more anecdotes from a couple of people I know. People are having prolonged recovery. Most are not.