Covid 19 Part XXI-27,908 in ROI (1,777 deaths) 6,647 in NI (559 deaths)(22/08)Read OP

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CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Got a coronavirus test today after contacting my gp on monday.

That's shocking, any idea when you might get the result? That's another delay potentially

seefin

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Got a coronavirus test today after contacting my gp on monday.

Now that's worrying. Told along the only real way to live with the virus is decent testing and tracing.

Boggles

Deleted User wrote: »

46% of hospital admission for Covid in Ireland have been among under 65's, and 62% of ICU admissions have been under 65

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/epidemiologyofcovid-19inireland/COVID-19%20Daily%20epidemiology%20report%20(NPHET)%20v1.0_20200812_website.pdf

Yes, but you are far more likely to be hospitalized if you are a confirmed case over 65 in actual real numbers relative to population.

Also the sad reality is if you are over 75 your had a slim chance of getting into ICU.

Jim_Hodge

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Got a coronavirus test today after contacting my gp on monday.

Something is not right there. A friend contacted his GP on Tuesday morning, after being a close contact of a case, and had the test Wednesday, with results the next day.

Ll31

I contacted gp office Monday, gp rang Tues referred for test, test yesterday, waiting for results now. Tho I assume they may triage tests as such maybe depending on close contact r not, symptoms, work , med condition etc

mandrake04

Beanybabog wrote: »

. They make you pee on a stick the exact same as at home. On my third pregnancy and I didn’t even go to the GP, just told her on the phone, they trust the home tests. Not that I’m saying it’d work for this virus, just that the above isn’t true

So you never had a blood test when pregnant?

bHCG is a quantitative immunoassay, it’s in a serum work area from a blood test. It actually gives a measurable count that should rise as the pregnancy progresses especially in the 1st Trimester then it should fall slightly. Doctors use this to monitor the validity of pregnancy, peeing onto a stick doesn’t give a count it’s only for indicative use.

schmoo2k

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

Why are these trends replicated all over the world where the virus has previously significantly impacted?

Without exception.

Israel would be an exception! (just being pedantic as I agree with your point, that the daily confirmed cases are not resulting in the same hospital admission rate / death as it did at the start).

AdamD

Deleted User wrote: »

46% of hospital admission for Covid in Ireland have been among under 65's, and 62% of ICU admissions have been under 65

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/epidemiologyofcovid-19inireland/COVID-19%20Daily%20epidemiology%20report%20(NPHET)%20v1.0_20200812_website.pdf

Didn't we hospitalise every covid case at the beginning? Difficult to analyse the stats properly when that would have skewed them

Martina1991

darjeeling wrote:

We need cheap, self-administered rapid tests that can be taken regularly so that we can reliably detect when someone is infectious. We could have got them into use months ago, and we'd be in a much better place for reopening safely if we had.

drunkmonkey wrote:

It'll be accurate if you do it a few times, best of 5. Post them to everyone, if it's positive 2 out of 5 times don't budge for two week or go for a lab test then. We'd know where we stand straight away. It's rapid testing and points of entry to the country from then on. I think it's a better idea than the traffic lights. Whack a mole isn't going to work.

Cheap, quick, self administerd, having to do it a few times a day. Sounds more like something you'd get out of a lucky bag than a reliable tool to detect a contagious virus.

darjeeling wrote:

We do trust it to work for pregnancies, and the test would have to be as simple and reliable. But right now our alternative to self-testing is not testing.

Our alternative to testing is social distancing, hand washing, ppe and masks if necessary.
Those are what stop the spread of the virus.

PCR is the gold standard method for viral detection.
Our testing is now picking up many asymptomatic cases. Cases that weren't being picked up before.
Our hospitals aren't overwhelmed.

We don't need cheap unreliable tests. It can't be controlled or monitored and will give people a false sense of security that they're fine and may flout safety guidelines as a result.

lee_baby_simms

schmoo2k wrote: »

Israel would be an exception! (just being pedantic as I agree with your point, that the daily confirmed cases are not resulting in the same hospital admission rate / death as it did at the start).

Sure but it hasn't impacted significantly yet in Israel, 70 deaths per million indicates relatively low community spread so far.

lee_baby_simms

Martina1991 wrote: »

PCR is the gold standard method for viral detection.
Our testing is now picking up many asymptomatic cases.

I'd love to know how many are testing positive now due to PCR detecting dead fragments of the virus from months ago. I guess we'll never know.

mandrake04

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

I'd love to know how many are testing positive now due to PCR detecting dead fragments of the virus from months ago. I guess we'll never know.

Months ago no, weeks maybe but not months.

Ficheall

Martina1991 wrote: »

We don't need cheap unreliable tests. It can't be controlled or monitored and will give people a false sense of security that they're fine and may flout safety guidelines as a result.

I'd rather someone took two cheap not very reliable tests upon entering the country, say, than no test at all.

mandrake04

Ficheall wrote: »

I'd rather someone took two cheap not very reliable tests upon entering the country, say, than no test at all.

On the contrary you would be safer not testing with unreliable tests and just advise people to restrict movements, if they incorrectly test negative then they have false sense of security and for sure the be out spreading the virus.

Martina1991

Ficheall wrote:

I'd rather someone took two cheap not very reliable tests upon entering the country, say, than no test at all.

Then there would be no point doing it at all. Might as well flip a coin.

iguana

mandrake04 wrote: »

So you never had a blood test when pregnant?

bHCG is a quantitative immunoassay, it’s in a serum work area from a blood test. It actually gives a measurable count that should rise as the pregnancy progresses especially in the 1st Trimester then it should fall slightly. Doctors use this to monitor the validity of pregnancy, peeing onto a stick doesn’t give a count it’s only for indicative use.

The only blood tests I had in pregnancy were in the second trimester and long after I'd had a number of scans and seen the foetus jumping around. The tests were general serological tests to check my history and included tests for HIV and hepatitis antibodies among others. Blood tests to confirm pregnancy aren't routinely done.

amandstu

Is hypertension a risk factor in this disease? Does it only apply if the problem is not being controlled with medication or is it a factor even then?

mandrake04

iguana wrote: »

The only blood tests I had in pregnancy were in the second trimester and long after I'd had a number of scans and seen the foetus jumping around. The tests were general serological tests to check my history and included tests for HIV and hepatitis antibodies among others. Blood tests to confirm pregnancy aren't routinely done.

beta HCG is very common test, the pee stick could confirm you are pregnant but in the real world if your hormone count started to fall then you are in danger of no longer being pregnant even though the stick detects you are.

You can understand now why it’s used, wether your Doctor requests it or not depends on the doctor.

Beanybabog

mandrake04 wrote: »

So you never had a blood test when pregnant?

bHCG is a quantitative immunoassay, it’s in a serum work area from a blood test. It actually gives a measurable count that should rise as the pregnancy progresses especially in the 1st Trimester then it should fall slightly. Doctors use this to monitor the validity of pregnancy, peeing onto a stick doesn’t give a count it’s only for indicative use.

Nope, blood tests for antibodies, HIV etc But never to confirm the pregnancy. I’m on my third and I don’t know anyone who had that. According to HSE website doctors use same test as us and the one you refer to is if there’s bleeding or pain.

podgeandrodge

Boggles wrote: »

It's pretty simple really.

95%+ of all confirmed cases in the past 14 days have occurred in people under the age of 65.

There has only been 12 confirmed cases in people over the age of 75 in the past fortnight.

Why aren't older people getting it as much now, they aren't really cocooning anymore. They are out and about no? Is it all down to nursing home cases being sorted?

iguana

mandrake04 wrote: »

beta HCG is very common test, the pee stick could confirm you are pregnant but in the real world if your hormone count started to fall then you are in danger of no longer being pregnant even though the stick detects you are.

You can understand now why it’s used, wether your Doctor requests it or not depends on the doctor.

Home pregnancy tests are highly specific these days. And have been for quite a while. I've had test sticks let me see falling hormone levels in early pregnancy as far back as 08. Blood tests to detect and monitor HCG levels are only done in extremely specific circumstances where there is worry about viability. And even then, transvaginal scans are more commonly used as they can reliably monitor the size of the embryo and take a good estimate at it's growth levels from less than a month post-conception.

Martina1991

Beanybabog wrote:

Nope, blood tests for antibodies, HIV etc But never to confirm the pregnancy. I’m on my third and I don’t know anyone who had that. According to HSE website doctors use same test as us and the one you refer to is if there’s bleeding or pain.

Women who on hormonal birth control, have irregular periods or even those who are in their 40s missing periods may require a bHCG blood test as they may not suspect pregnancy as a reason for being late.

A blood test HCG doesnt just tell you if you're pregnant, it helps determine the gestation. Serial measurements may be needed to determine if there was a missed miscarriage.

caveat emptor

Brazilian chicken wings and frozen containers test positive in China.

https://www.ft.com/content/3ca489d7-4e89-42bf-b655-c98d5176b214

Brazil has pushed back against Chinese claims its frozen chicken exports carried
coronavirus after authorities in southern China said imported poultry
from Latin America’s largest economy tested positive.

The controversy comes as China has stepped up a campaign to ward off the
return of Covid-19 by focusing on refrigerated cargo after a spate of incidents
in which frozen goods have tested positive.

Since early July, Chinese authorities say they have discovered
nine cases of coronavirus on imported frozen food,
its packaging or the walls of transport containers.

In the most recent incident on Thursday, the Shenzhen city health commission
said a sample taken from a batch of Brazilian frozen chicken wings tested positive for the virus.

RNA tests carried out on city storage containers and individuals who might
have come into contact with the chicken were negative,
the commission said, without naming the company that exported the goods.

ACitizenErased

podgeandrodge wrote: »

Why aren't older people getting it as much now, they aren't really cocooning anymore. They are out and about no? Is it all down to nursing home cases being sorted?

I can only speak for my grandmother when I say it seems like older people are back to normal. Her and her friends are doing all the usual stuff, meeting up for coffee and such. Surprised the case numbers for older people are so low atm tbh

nacho libre

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Surprised the case numbers for older people are so low atm tbh

If they are following the guidelines and mostly meeting outdoors it's not that hard to believe. Also, for those that might not be, the low community transmission is probably a big factor. If the r rate were to go back to where it was in March, things would be a lot different. However that is unlikely to happen now due to the contact and trace system in place.

ACitizenErased

Hair salon in Carrigaline, Co. Cork has closed after an asymptomatic staff member tested positive after close contact tracing

mandrake04

iguana wrote: »

Home pregnancy tests are highly specific these days. And have been for quite a while. I've had test sticks let me see falling hormone levels in early pregnancy as far back as 08. Blood tests to detect and monitor HCG levels are only done in extremely specific circumstances where there is worry about viability. And even then, transvaginal scans are more commonly used as they can reliably monitor the size of the embryo and take a good estimate at it's growth levels from less than a month post-conception.

we are getting off topic, home pregnancy kits dont give the full picture and they are only indicative that was my point. Testing is not black & white like people want, but it is true its easy to test for a simple hormone than a virus.

a lot of Rapid covid tests don't test for the virus itself, they usually testing for a combination of chemicals that your body produces when its under stress from getting sick usually many days later than PCR would have detected the virus itself.

But are you sick from covid? or just common cold, flu, Gastro etc

And if you are asymptomatic would you even test positive?

Boggles

podgeandrodge wrote: »

Why aren't older people getting it as much now, they aren't really cocooning anymore. They are out and about no? Is it all down to nursing home cases being sorted?

Care homes would be a major part of it.

But A large bulk of infections are taking place in work environments and subsequently living quarters where you just won't find over 65s.

Also relative to the population as a whole, there isn't that many of them. Around 15%.

Look at the video from the prom in Kilkee, not many blue rinse Brigade going apeshít.

So, numbers, environment, caution and the fact that instances of the virus in the community is relatively low. If a member of a family comes down with anything resembling a symptom now, they don't go near an older person.

The schools and everything that comes with it and the changing climate has the ability to turn all that on it's head though.

The big question is, should grandparents, grand uncles and aunts be doing their usual job of picking up and minding kids after school this Autumn / Winter.

There is the weak spot. that the virus will exploit.

Goldengirl

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I'm not sure anybody smarter than us can be as creative, they don't always go hand in hand.

They used a home pin prick test in the UK to check for antibodies with the first 100,000 volunteers. The results have been published https://www.gov.uk/government/news/largest-home-antibody-testing-programme-for-covid-19-publishes-findings

One of the results was that smokers were less likely to have antibodies does this add any weight to the evidence that smoking blocks the receptors covid needs to latch onto. It's one of the reasons the Spanish smoking ban today struck me as odd.

From another study
CONCLUSION The risk of infection by COVID-19 appears to be reduced by half among current smokers. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.01.20118877v2

It's a bit mad but the evidence is pointing to smoking possibly being effective as a vaccine. Funny old world.

But in earlier studies from China , most of the people dying were smokers.
Maybe coats the lungs to block the receptors initially , but God help you then if you do catch it, you have Covid pneumonia and smokers lung to contend with.
I don't think the WHO or ECDC will be asking people to take up smoking now on the basis of this , do you?

marno21

Goldengirl wrote: »

But in earlier studies from China , most of the people dying were smokers.
Maybe coats the lungs to block the receptors initially , but God help you then if you do catch it, you have Covid pneumonia and smokers lung to contend with.
I don't think the WHO or ECDC will be asking people to take up smoking now on the basis of this , do you?

From some of the literature to date that theory shows merit. If you smoke you reduce the chances of actually getting the disease, but should you get the disease, you get a more severe illness than a comparative non smoker.

A bit like a roulette wheel where there the amount of reds is halved but if you do land on red you get double the payout.

Goldengirl

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The mean time to ICU admission with Covid is 8 to 12 days.

8 days ago our 7 day rolling average was 58. Where are all the ICU admissions? Never mind hospital admission?

https://www.hse.ie/eng/services/news/newsfeatures/covid19-updates/covid-19-daily-operations-update-20-00-13-august-2020.pdf

Weren't a lot of those cases asymptomatic so picked up on testing only ?
That time line is for symptomatic individuals .
That is why this " wave" if you can call it that , is different from before . Many are being picked up on testing only and it is testament to the value of testing widely where a cluster is picked up .
As has been said before it's the randomers not reporting symptoms and not going for testing that are going to cause the problems for us .

ACitizenErased

https://twitter.com/president_mu/status/1294217495428116480?s=21

eigrod

2 admissions to ICU in last 24 hours. 8 in ICU today. 12 in hospitals.

https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/pages/hospitals-icu--testing

Renjit

caveat emptor wrote: »

Brazilian chicken wings and frozen containers test positive in China.

https://www.ft.com/content/3ca489d7-4e89-42bf-b655-c98d5176b214

Damn, meat Popsicle

US2

Daughter has a fairly blocked nose. No other symptoms atall. Could be just hayfever, should I ring for a test anyway, she's 4? Do they stick the swab up near the brain on small kids too ?

Goldengirl

iguana wrote: »

The only blood tests I had in pregnancy were in the second trimester and long after I'd had a number of scans and seen the foetus jumping around. The tests were general serological tests to check my history and included tests for HIV and hepatitis antibodies among others. Blood tests to confirm pregnancy aren't routinely done.

Yes agree with you there .

But this whole discussion about pregnancy tests is not relevant except to say there are simple tests out there.
Easy to pee on a stick coated with a reagent , to be honest

This test requires a little bit more than that and false negatives with a highly infectious notifiable disease could be potential for spread .

Goldengirl

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Hair salon in Carrigaline, Co. Cork has closed after an asymptomatic staff member tested positive after close contact tracing

Well done to close contact tracing !

Ficheall

mandrake04 wrote: »

On the contrary you would be safer not testing with unreliable tests and just advise people to restrict movements, if they incorrectly test negative then they have false sense of security and for sure the be out spreading the virus.

But many people aren't restricting their movements, despite the advice.

Sure, if everyone could be trusted, we'd have an even better handle on the virus, but many can't - and so, if tests are cheap, quick, and efficient enough, it makes sense to test; certainly coming from the "red" list countries or whatever they're being called.

Martina1991 wrote: »

Then there would be no point doing it at all. Might as well flip a coin.

One test which only accurately catches 80% of infectees might not be worth doing, granted, as you'd let 20% of infectees in. Two such tests would flag ~96%. Certainly not a coin toss. There would be some false positives for sure, but I find them far less concerning than false negatives.

ACitizenErased

US2 wrote: »

Daughter has a fairly blocked nose. No other symptoms atall. Could be just hayfever, should I ring for a test anyway, she's 4? Do they stick the swab up near the brain on small kids too ?

Yeah I’d get a test. It’s a nasal swab for all ages.

Goldengirl

US2 wrote: »

Daughter has a fairly blocked nose. No other symptoms atall. Could be just hayfever, should I ring for a test anyway, she's 4? Do they stick the swab up near the brain on small kids too ?

Don't worry they know what they are doing and that is the good thing about professionals testing
Best of luck with her .

KrustyUCC

US2 wrote: »

Daughter has a fairly blocked nose. No other symptoms atall. Could be just hayfever, should I ring for a test anyway, she's 4? Do they stick the swab up near the brain on small kids too ?

Yup get a test for her

Even just for peace of mind

drunkmonkey

US2 wrote: »

Daughter has a fairly blocked nose. No other symptoms atall. Could be just hayfever, should I ring for a test anyway, she's 4? Do they stick the swab up near the brain on small kids too ?

No need for a test it's the weather, I'm in the same boat.

drunkmonkey

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Yeah I’d get a test. It’s a nasal swab for all ages.

Goldengirl wrote: »

Don't worry they know what they are doing and that is the good thing about professionals testing
Best of luck with her .

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Yup get a test for her

Even just for peace of mind

A blocked nose in this humidity doesn't warrant going into isolation and locking down the house. Completely over reacting here.

Ficheall

drunkmonkey wrote: »

A blocked nose in this humidity doesn't warrant going into isolation and locking down the house. Completely over reacting here.

Poster mentioned earlier a relative had been in for a test as a close contact and was awaiting results - erring on the side of caution not wholly unreasonable in this instance.

JDD

drunkmonkey wrote: »

No need for a test it's the weather, I'm in the same boat.

My 3 year old came down with the same thing last Saturday. Blocked then runny nose, sneezing, a cough from the post-nasal drip. Rang the GP on Monday, he said it was just a cold and no need for a test. He was over it by Tuesday and back in creche on Wednesday. I mentioned it to the creche and the fact that I had rung the doctor, and they were fine with it. They said literally every kid in the place had a snotty/sneezy nose, and the same thing happens every year two weeks before the schools go back, and basically sticks around until April.

I'd say ring the doctor, and let them make the call. I could hear my GP rolling his eyes on the other end of the line (he's very laid back tbf) but I thought, well, I'm getting the moral comfort of calling him, and if he says no test, then I'm fine with that. If I had any suspicion at all that it was Covid I would have insisted on a test, but I was also convinced it was a cold. And as you say, I'm not putting my 3 year old through the brain scraping swab unless there's a good reason for it.

Ficheall

They're working on a less icky test, which obviously isn't much use to poster at the moment, but..
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/experts-examine-less-invasive-covid-19-testing-for-children-1.4327711

Goldengirl

Snow Garden wrote: »

You're saying it wrong!

It's Covidiots!

I think your misuse of the word makes you one if I am being totally fair.

I think this is a nasty little post ..

' if I am being totally fair ' !

owlbethere

Ficheall wrote: »

But many people aren't restricting their movements, despite the advice.

Sure, if everyone could be trusted, we'd have an even better handle on the virus, but many can't - and so, if tests are cheap, quick, and efficient enough, it makes sense to test; certainly coming from the "red" list countries or whatever they're being called.




One test which only accurately catches 80% of infectees might not be worth doing, granted, as you'd let 20% of infectees in. Two such tests would flag ~96%. Certainly not a coin toss. There would be some false positives for sure, but I find them far less concerning than false negatives.

This 100%. People are not restricting their movements and not reducing their contacts even upon showing cold symptoms. I have first hand experience of this scenario recently.

ACitizenErased

drunkmonkey wrote: »

A blocked nose in this humidity doesn't warrant going into isolation and locking down the house. Completely over reacting here.

Or you could get a test like doctors suggest? You don’t need to be difficult about such a simple answer.

mandrake04

Ficheall wrote: »

But many people aren't restricting their movements, despite the advice.

Sure, if everyone could be trusted, we'd have an even better handle on the virus, but many can't - and so, if tests are cheap, quick, and efficient enough, it makes sense to test; certainly coming from the "red" list countries or whatever they're being called.

Here's the thing Ireland has been extremely lucky so far, but has to be lucky every time...virus only has to be lucky once... just look at NZ and Melbourne.

Even with the best tests you can test negative today but positive tomorrow, as useful as they are they can also give a false sense of security.

Living with the virus means living with restrictions to keep the R0 below 0.