Covid 19 Part XXI-27,908 in ROI (1,777 deaths) 6,647 in NI (559 deaths)(22/08)Read OP

v638sg7k1a92bx

owlbethere wrote: »

This is a disappointing read but sadly and I fear you are probably right. Cases are rising. Community transmissions are rising. Complacency has set in. It will all lead to a big mess in the end. Coupled with pubs and schools opening, we will be seeing a lockdown come October.

I don't get why there wasn't a hotline set up to report employers breaking the guidelines on social distancing. Some employers can be massive cu*ts and d1ckheads and would gladly throw their employees under the bus. There should have been a hotline set up for reporting employers and establishments breaking the guidelines.

What next can we add to the list of arbitrary measures? Don’t go to work, stay at home, physical distancing, stand in this circles, follow this arrow, wear a mask and now a hotline for touting on fellow citizens.

Strumms

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

The main tourism body in Ireland promoting staycation but the head of it vacates in Italy, I know now Cawley has resigned, but does he still get a big payout benefits pension etc., ?

It’s always been an issue in governments in companies and corporations in this country...

Too many leaders, managers and people in positions of responsibility, prepared to write the rules but when it comes to following them and leading by example they are lacking.

An old boss I had pissing and moaning about people coming back late from lunch, but at 2.05 he’s out the front door just with a coffee and a fag on the go... if you want to set standards, be the first one to be meeting them.

JP Liz V1

ACitizenErased wrote: »

This whole covid zero is fairytale stuff

We need Tony Stark and Bruce Banner to work on a vaccine or someone to huff and puff, blow it out of
Ireland

Goldengirl

Ficheall wrote: »

Can you blame them?

No.
People were given plenty of chances over the last few months ..we are heading for the wave that was predicted for August and is already in Europe.
I can't see this not leading to rising numbers in hospital and ICU over the next few weeks .

v638sg7k1a92bx

Strumms wrote: »

True until a vaccine. However the whole “learn to live with it brigade” are very much satisfied to have every kind of restrictions lifted immediately so that corporations and business can thrive, this at the same time ordinary people are focused on ‘survive’...

The chances of survival are 98%, even higher if you are under 70 with no pre morbid or CO morbid conditions.

I’ll take those chances.

ACitizenErased

You'd wonder if increasing numbers in Europe will push vaccine firms to speed up a little.

DevilsHaircut

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

You're buying into the casedemic hysteria, how many deaths has there been over the last 4 weeks? 12

How many people are in ICUs less than 10.

But, keep spreading panic and fear it's no longer a pandemic it's now a casedemic.

'Casedemic' (it doesn't even scan - how do you pronounce it?)

The proponent of which is a quack NLP/corporate bollocks distributor (whom I won't name here).

At any rate, it's the successor to 'plandemic' for those inclined to minimise the disease for their own financial gain.

Thing is, if his 'science' is only on YouTube or Facebook - it's not really science :rolleyes:

owlbethere

owlbethere wrote: »

This is a disappointing read but sadly and I fear you are probably right. Cases are rising. Community transmissions are rising. Complacency has set in. It will all lead to a big mess in the end. Coupled with pubs and schools opening, we will be seeing a lockdown come October.

I don't get why there wasn't a hotline set up to report employers breaking the guidelines on social distancing. Some employers can be massive cu*ts and d1ckheads and would gladly throw their employees under the bus. There should have been a hotline set up for reporting employers and establishments breaking the guidelines.

You can already report employers to the hsa for breach of health and safety, fairly sure that would cover what your describing.

Strumms

Opal Shy Oceanographer wrote: »

The chances of survival are 98%, even higher if you are under 70 with no pre morbid or CO morbid conditions.

I’ll take those chances.

That’s ok for you... there are thousands of people with underlying conditions, COPD, severe asthma, emphysema, bronchitis, cystic fibrosis, I could go on...

YOU want to take those chances ? What about everyone else ? Not about you... go out to Crumlin, talk to parents right now of children suffering with CF, YOU'LL take those chances !? I’m sure they’ll appreciate that, right ! :rolleyes:

GooglePlus

ACitizenErased wrote: »

You'd wonder if increasing numbers in Europe will push vaccine firms to speed up a little.

Sick white people = more funding

Sick brown people = more sick brown people

owlbethere

ACitizenErased wrote: »

You'd wonder if increasing numbers in Europe will push vaccine firms to speed up a little.

The Oxford vaccine is right around the corner. It's in phase 3 trails. Production of the vaccine has started so when the trials come to and end and the vaccine is hopefully successful and given the go ahead, they can start rolling it out straight away.

gifted

GooglePlus wrote: »

Sick white people = more funding

Sick brown people = more sick brown people

Oh for the love of God......get lost with that bullsite please

Plumbthedepths

DevilsHaircut wrote: »

When are you going on hols to Italy (with one or other of your 'wives')?

If it's Tuscany, you might bump into the Fáilte Ireland chairman

I've been got back Monday. Flew into Milan a few days sightseeing, stayed with friends in Naples. Flew home from Rome, great time. Thanks for asking.

owlbethere

DubInMeath wrote: »

You can already report employers to the hsa for breach of health and safety, fairly sure that would cover what your describing.

Apparently disease doesn't come in under their remit. It was on this thread a few days ago. If an establishment was lacking fire exits for example, that would come in under their remit. But disease and social distancing is not under their remit.

Juwwi

Strumms wrote: »

True until a vaccine. However the whole “learn to live with it brigade” are very much satisfied to have every kind of restrictions lifted immediately so that corporations and business can thrive, this at the same time ordinary people are focused on ‘survive’...

Luckily those type of lift every restriction crowd seem to be in the minority in the real world from what I've seen , since Gemma was banned from Twitter some posters seem to have more spare time on their hands and are probably bored .

What Username Guidelines

Strumms wrote: »

True until a vaccine. However the whole “learn to live with it brigade” are very much satisfied to have every kind of restrictions lifted immediately so that corporations and business can thrive, this at the same time ordinary people are focused on ‘survive’...

I’m leaning towards “learn to live with it” recently for a few reasons, namely NZ, along with flatten the curve being another dead idea.

The bit that’s frustrates me is that we’re neither living with it nor eradicating it, and there’s not much in terms of options between the two.

If we’re flattening the curve, was it really necessary to lockdown LOK so abruptly based on case numbers, considering many were asymptomatic?

My worry is that there is no specifics in terms of target or goal here, but instead it’s based on incidence of disease. It hits a threshold and we react somehow. Why is the threshold the threshold? And what are we worried about if it goes beyond that threshold?

Emotionally you can answer “less death” and “less risk” is what we’re aiming for, and I’m in favour of both, obviously. But these are vague goals, and vague goals don’t align with specific thresholds.

timsey tiger

Opal Shy Oceanographer wrote: »

The chances of survival are 98%, even higher if you are under 70 with no pre morbid or CO morbid conditions.

I’ll take those chances.

You do realise that you are "taking those chances" for everybody else as well including the over 70s and other high risk groups.

seanb85

ACitizenErased wrote: »

You'd wonder if increasing numbers in Europe will push vaccine firms to speed up a little.

Unlikely, they've already compressed timescales to the absolute minimum. You'd hope governments have proposed roll out plans set in stone already though, I wouldn't be confident that's the case though.

Goldengirl

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There won't be another national lockdown, we wouldn't be able to afford it. Its every man/woman for themselves now unfortunately.

And people will have to get back to school and work and protect themselves as best they can. Masks, distancing, ventilation, hand washing etc.

School my son is in has no ventilation , condensation dripping down the walls in Winter . Freezing if they open windows but that may have to be done.
Proper air filtration and ventilation should have been installed by now , they had plenty of time in the last few months to get this right .

timsey tiger

ACitizenErased wrote: »

You'd wonder if increasing numbers in Europe will push vaccine firms to speed up a little.

Well, hopefully not, might allow for an increase in the speed of the phase 3 testing. Certainly should concentrate the mind.

Might allow for some way to introduce daily at home testing if politicians get desperate to avoid a hard lockdown.

LessOutragePlz

DevilsHaircut wrote: »

'Casedemic' (it doesn't even scan - how do you pronounce it?)

The proponent of which is a quack NLP/corporate bollocks distributor (whom I won't name here).

At any rate, it's the successor to 'plandemic' for those inclined to minimise the disease for their own financial gain.

Thing is, if his 'science' is only on YouTube or Facebook - it's not really science :rolleyes:

Sure anything on YouTube isn't science :rolleyes: , have you ever considered that certain experts aren't being given airtime on the traditional media because their opinions go against the narrative that is being pushed at the moment.

Case and point.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBRcK-od50Q

The man being interviewed is a professor in immunology or is that not considered "science" anymore because it's on YouTube :rolleyes:.

https://www.pubfacts.com/author/Beda+M+Stadler

That's a list of some of his publications.

Can you tell me why this expert and many others are being ignored by traditional media?

ACitizenErased

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

I’m leaning towards “learn to live with it” recently for a few reasons, namely NZ, along with flatten the curve being another dead idea.

The bit that’s frustrates me is that we’re neither living with it nor eradicating it, and there’s not much in terms of options between the two.

If we’re flattening the curve, was it really necessary to lockdown LOK so abruptly based on case numbers, considering many were asymptomatic?

My worry is that there is no specifics in terms of target or goal here, but instead it’s based on incidence of disease. It hits a threshold and we react somehow. Why is the threshold the threshold? And what are we worried about if it goes beyond that threshold?

Emotionally you can answer “less death” and “less risk” is what we’re aiming for, and I’m in favour of both, obviously. But these are vague goals, and vague goals don’t align with specific thresholds.

Fantastic post. There's no obvious plan. It's very reactionary.

GooglePlus

gifted wrote: »

Oh for the love of God......get lost with that bullsite please

Doesn't suit your world view, I get that. You could do with broadening your horizons if you don't know that this is a white man's world. Have you heard of the case figures in South Africa on this forum much? Probably not, it's irrelevant to us unfortunately.

Unpopular opinion 101 kids, take note. This is how you ruin your credibility on boards.ie. Talk about racial discrimination.

Goldengirl

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I believe America tried that years ago and failed miserably. Somehow I don't think we would be successful when a country with vast resources couldn't.

We could all grow weed!
Meant to be helpful against Covid , if only to bring a little happiness 🙂

little bess

Following the cmo’s advice, I want to tell my teenage daughter to limit who she hangs out with, maybe just her two best friends. But then I’m thinking what‘s the point, she’s going to be in classroom with 30 others in two weeks time? Very frustrating.

v638sg7k1a92bx

Strumms wrote: »

That’s ok for you... there are thousands of people with underlying conditions, COPD, severe asthma, emphysema, bronchitis, cystic fibrosis, I could go on...

YOU want to take those chances ? What about everyone else ? Not about you... go out to Crumlin, talk to parents right now of children suffering with CF, YOU'LL take those chances !? I’m sure they’ll appreciate that, right ! :rolleyes:

But they took those chances already before Covid came along but now we have the internet and media perpetuating this mass hysteria and whooping up the fear even when very few people are dying.

Goldengirl

thelad95 wrote: »

I think there should have been a hard hard hard lockdown from day one looking back to last March with a view to achieving zero Covid cases. This is something that everyone could have tangibly bought into with a view to eliminating this f*cling thing once and for all.

Despite what all those libertarian types would have you believe, what we had was actually an incredibly soft lockdown. Although there was 2km restrictions these were only loosely imposed by occasional virtue signalling checkpoints, if we were serious about this we should have had the army on the streets along with the Gardaí, regular patrols of high density housing areas, opening an anonymous phone line to report illegal gatherings.

House parties are actually incredibly easy to patrol if the Gardaí just gave a slight toss. Noise disturbances for some reason are always "a civil issue" whenever they're reported, pretty poor policing in all honesty.

In terms of general public buy in, I think the government have dicked about for too long and have lost a lot of goodwill. We were told to flatten the curve, that was done around the start of May. Apparently it wasn't flattened enough.

Since then, there's been complete ambiguity in what the government's ultimate aim is. The dogs on the street knew that when people started moving around, along with reduced case figures that complacency would kick in and those hellish months from March to May would all be for nothing.

Wishy washy nonsense restrictions like "limit gatherings in houses to six people with social distancing" are realistically not going to be followed by anyone are literally legally and practically unenforceable by anyone.

All the while, institutions that the government has insisted on keeping open (meat factories and direct provision centres) all this time are the main driver of what's setting this back months. Institutions that have been neglected by government after government for years when they know that they are living breathing sh!t holes with awful conditions for some of the most vulnerable members of our society.

We're realistically only weeks away from a hard national lockdown again and my hole Martin will not gain public buy in as he is and always has been a spoofer.

It's going to be a long long winter and you can truly forget about a Christmas of any sort.

While I agree with most of this I simply cannot give it the thanks it deserves , because it is too depressingly true

Goldengirl

Goldengirl wrote: »

School my son is in has no ventilation , condensation dripping down the walls in Winter . Freezing if they open windows but that may have to be done.
Proper air filtration and ventilation should have been installed by now , they had plenty of time in the last few months to get this right .

Having taught in a classroom with everyone wearing masks, I can safely tell you air filtration and ventilation are largely irrelevant. By lunchtime of the first day, rules break down and while there is some semblance of added safety, if a kid has it, it's likely to spread.

They'll still share bottles of water. They'll be horsing around as usual by the second day. They'll pull down their masks to shout at someone across the room. The teacher will end up doing the same. It can't and will never work the way adults think it might.

The approach will quickly change to reducing mingling between students in different classes imo. That's what happened where I am. Classes were fed in their rooms. Buses were added. School start and finish were staggered to reduce mingling on the way in and out. Multiple temperature checks a day.

Goldengirl

ACitizenErased wrote: »

This whole covid zero is fairytale stuff

We will never know .
It was never given a chance .

GooglePlus

Goldengirl wrote: »

We will never know .
It was never given a chance .

It was given more than a chance in New Zealand but the virus prevailed regardless.

I think a fine balance of in between has to be struck.

Plumbthedepths

Goldengirl wrote: »

We will never know .
It was never given a chance .

Zero Covid is not possible see New Zealand.

Wolf359f

ACitizenErased wrote: »

This whole covid zero is fairytale stuff

It's so easy for people to call for it. Their argument falls down when you ask how they would implement it. Bring up the border issues and it always falls down to asking the UK to follow a zero covid approach.

What Username Guidelines

Goldengirl wrote: »

We will never know .
It was never given a chance .

It was in NZ. It’s a sound theory but that theory is not compatible with any semblance of normal life. We could eradicate every communicable disease on the planet with enough will and action, but there is a trade-off to be made. And I’m not referring to let’s just go back to the way we were living before. Zero covid requires incalculable levels of investment, financially, societally, psychologically. Why not do the same for influenzas?

Renjit

Lads, we keep watchin few more weeks. Chill out and enjoy the weekend. Remember to do your part.

LessOutragePlz

Goldengirl wrote: »

We will never know .
It was never given a chance .

It was never given a chance because we never closed the ports or airports to outside travelers so it is a fairytale and impossible do especially when we have a land border with a different country that had different restrictions in place to ours.

GooglePlus

GooglePlus wrote: »

It was given more than a chance in New Zealand but the virus prevailed regardless.

I think a fine balance of in between has to be struck.

They had fewer restrictions than Ireland and three months of success. Vietnam had fewer restrictions than Ireland and had three months of success.

While I get that it's pretty much impossible in Ireland, blanket statements saying it doesn't work are stupid.

Less impact on daily life to get to the good part and then months of the good part. How can that not be worth trying in countries that have the option.

Spiderman0081

Wolf359f wrote: »

It's so easy for people to call for it. Their argument falls down when you ask how they would implement it. Bring up the border issues and it always falls down to asking the UK to follow a zero covid approach.

Hello. You just have to fine people. 1 million euros.

GooglePlus

Renjit wrote: »

Lads, we keep watchin few more weeks. Chill out and enjoy the weekend. Remember to do your part.

I came here to discuss coronavirus, as per the the title of the thread. If I wanted to really enjoy my weekend, I wouldn't be on this website but I'm a divil for self abuse

Strumms

Deleted User wrote: »

Having taught in a classroom with everyone wearing masks, I can safely tell you air filtration and ventilation are largely irrelevant. By lunchtime of the first day, rules break down and while there is some semblance of added safety, if a kid has it, it's likely to spread.

They'll still share bottles of water. They'll be horsing around as usual by the second day. They'll pull down their masks to shout at someone across the room. The teacher will end up doing the same. It can't and will never work the way adults think it might.

The approach will quickly change to reducing mingling between students in different classes imo. That's what happened where I am. Classes were fed in their rooms. Buses were added. School start and finish were staggered to reduce mingling on the way in and out.

In fairness I’d imagine the easiest thing to get right in schools would be the infrastructure, but like you are saying it’s how to prevent kids from behavior that can and will potentially be the catalyst for spreading. Teachers have a hard enough job simply teaching and enabling kids to learn, grow and be educated but add in this scenario...

Teachers are not parents, parents got to parent, I know in this day and age that’s almost a fûckin foreign concept in some cases for parents but if the kid is CONSTANTLY disregarding, disrespecting and endangering even potentially the health, safety and welfare of the other students / staff... the school should inform both parents and students of a ‘strike’ system, whereby three strikes and it’s suspension for two weeks... rack up another three and good luck...

What Username Guidelines

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Fantastic post. There's no obvious plan. It's very reactionary.

Even if they think they have a plan, and it’s easy for me to say, it needs to consider the short, medium and long term outcomes. The problem is the lack of central information on the disease and it’s spread, ability to spread and effects overall.

We all know how quickly this information changes as more data comes to light, and it’s very difficult to keep up with, to know what is current, and to decide between often-conflicting peer reviewed studies.

So I think NPHET and the government need to come out and say “based on the fact we know [A], we are aiming for [ B], so if we go above [C] in a certain area, we need to act by doing [D].”

Solve for A, B, C, where D = Lockdown.

NK76

Covid is nothing more than a normal illness...its time to pull all restrictions...open everything and see where we are in a month...if this happens then everyone will have an accurate understanding of whether this is all hype or something to worry about...personally its all hype

Spiderman0081

Strumms wrote: »

In fairness I’d imagine the easiest thing to get right in schools would be the infrastructure, but like you are saying it’s how to prevent kids from behavior that can and will potentially be the catalyst for spreading. Teachers have a hard enough job simply teaching and enabling kids to learn, grow and be educated but add in this scenario...

Teachers are not parents, parents got to parent, I know in this day and age that’s almost a fûckin foreign concept in some cases for parents but if the kid is CONSTANTLY disregarding, disrespecting and endangering even potentially the health, safety and welfare of the other students / staff... the school should inform both parents and students of a ‘strike’ system, whereby three strikes and it’s suspension for two weeks... rack up another three and good luck...

What if the kid isn’t white?

ACitizenErased

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

Even if they think they have a plan, and it’s easy for me to say, it needs to consider the short, medium and long term outcomes. The problem is the lack of central information on the disease and it’s spread, ability to spread and effects overall.

We all know how quickly this information changes as more data comes to light, and it’s very difficult to keep up with, to know what is current, and to decide between often-conflicting peer reviewed studies.

So I think NPHET and the government need to come out and say “based on the fact we know [A], we are aiming for [ B], so if we go above [C] in a certain area, we need to act by doing [D].”

Solve for A, B, C, where D = Lockdown.

That makes far too much sense for Ireland

GooglePlus

NK76 wrote: »

Covid is nothing more than a normal illness...its time to pull all restrictions...open everything and see where we are in a month...if this happens then everyone will have an accurate understanding of whether this is all hype or something to worry about...personally its all hype

That makes loads of sense.

Let's shut the global economy down for a normal illness.

Who actually benefits from your stupid scenario? All you have to do is think about it for more than 5 seconds, please.

Spiderman0081

Spiderman0081 wrote: »

What if the kid isn’t white?

Fair play. With only six words, you're going to make say a thousand people who read this thread roll their eyes and groan at the ceiling.

Wolf359f

Deleted User wrote: »

They had fewer restrictions than Ireland and three months of success. Vietnam had fewer restrictions than Ireland and had three months of success.

While I get that it's pretty much impossible in Ireland, blanket statements saying it doesn't work are stupid.

Less impact on daily life to get to the good part and then months of the good part. How can that not be worth trying in countries that have the option.

New Zealand actually had more stricter restrictions than Ireland.
https://theconversation.com/an-endless-game-of-covid-19-whack-a-mole-a-new-zealand-expert-on-why-melbournes-stage-4-lockdown-should-cover-all-of-victoria-143831
All takeaways were closed, that never happened here.
No one allowed at funerals, that didn't happen here.
All non essential businesses closed, we were a lot more loose on that, they had a strict list of what could open.
They didn't have 3 months of success, they only lifted their last phase on June 8th, so 2 months of sucess.

Wolf359f

Spiderman0081 wrote: »

Hello. You just have to fine people. 1 million euros.

Fine who?

Wolf359f

Wolf359f wrote: »

New Zealand actually had more stricter restrictions than Ireland.
https://theconversation.com/an-endless-game-of-covid-19-whack-a-mole-a-new-zealand-expert-on-why-melbournes-stage-4-lockdown-should-cover-all-of-victoria-143831
All takeaways were closed, that never happened here.
No one allowed at funerals, that didn't happen here.
All non essential businesses closed, we were a lot more loose on that, they had a strict list of what could open.
They didn't have 3 months of success, they only lifted their last phase on June 8th, so 2 months of sucess.

Fair enough. Vietnam then.

Deeper Blue

thelad95 wrote: »

I think there should have been a hard hard hard lockdown from day one looking back to last March with a view to achieving zero Covid cases. This is something that everyone could have tangibly bought into with a view to eliminating this f*cling thing once and for all.

Despite what all those libertarian types would have you believe, what we had was actually an incredibly soft lockdown. Although there was 2km restrictions these were only loosely imposed by occasional virtue signalling checkpoints, if we were serious about this we should have had the army on the streets along with the Gardaí, regular patrols of high density housing areas, opening an anonymous phone line to report illegal gatherings.

House parties are actually incredibly easy to patrol if the Gardaí just gave a slight toss. Noise disturbances for some reason are always "a civil issue" whenever they're reported, pretty poor policing in all honesty.

In terms of general public buy in, I think the government have dicked about for too long and have lost a lot of goodwill. We were told to flatten the curve, that was done around the start of May. Apparently it wasn't flattened enough.

Since then, there's been complete ambiguity in what the government's ultimate aim is. The dogs on the street knew that when people started moving around, along with reduced case figures that complacency would kick in and those hellish months from March to May would all be for nothing.

Wishy washy nonsense restrictions like "limit gatherings in houses to six people with social distancing" are realistically not going to be followed by anyone are literally legally and practically unenforceable by anyone.

All the while, institutions that the government has insisted on keeping open (meat factories and direct provision centres) all this time are the main driver of what's setting this back months. Institutions that have been neglected by government after government for years when they know that they are living breathing sh!t holes with awful conditions for some of the most vulnerable members of our society.

We're realistically only weeks away from a hard national lockdown again and my hole Martin will not gain public buy in as he is and always has been a spoofer.

It's going to be a long long winter and you can truly forget about a Christmas of any sort.

The zero covid stuff is a fantasy, look at New Zealand who everyone has been fawning over and they're back to having cases again.

Also people will celebrate Christmas regardless of covid, it's ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

Pinch Flat

NK76 wrote: »

Covid is nothing more than a normal illness...its time to pull all restrictions...open everything and see where we are in a month...if this happens then everyone will have an accurate understanding of whether this is all hype or something to worry about...personally its all hype

Did you do epidemiology at university or just pursue it as a hobby?