Covid 19 Part XXI-27,908 in ROI (1,777 deaths) 6,647 in NI (559 deaths)(22/08)Read OP

Professor Moriarty

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

They're not kids. They're adults and acting like sh1theads.

Absolutely. All are 20+.

Renjit

Onesea wrote: »

Lots of things we can link the argument to. There option of staying locked down until a vaccine happens isn't going to happen. So we get back to normal and beef up the health service. That what's happening.

Sure, flout the rules for all you can. Kids are kids. Bad parenting.

Ineedaname

OscarMIlde wrote: »

You don't get false positives with a PCR test unless you contaminate it with another positive sample. This test is highly specific.

I know that. He used a PCR for his second test. There's no indication of what was used for the first one.

drunkmonkey

Tork wrote: »

Look everybody is sick of Covid-19, lockdowns, facemasks, hand sanitizer, social distancing, not being able to go the pub etc. That's a given. What's infuriating is that there are people out there who are behaving like shïtheads and prolonging the misery for us all. I'm sure anybody looking at that footage from the bar in LOK is especially pissed off today. I see words like fear and hysteria being thrown out there. I'd prefer to see words like respect and sensible instead. If people did what they were asked to do, we wouldn't be starting to see the trends we are. Sweden took a lot of flack for its approach to the virus. Perhaps we should be taking a leaf from their book. They kept their bars open etc. and their government trusted them not to behave like shïtheads. Apart from care homes where they majorly fcked up, they're doing alright now. We're not capable of that, it would appear.

We the people did what was asked, it's out leaders let us down by not stepping up continuing to allow the free flow of people across our borders, we were within days of being in New Zelands boots. Tony could see the prize and was openly disagreeing with the Government, he should have been let finish the job.
Don't ever accuse the people of Ireland for the current state of affairs it's not our fault.
We've take the heard immunity route now let's just get on with it or bring Tony back.

MickeyLeari

Boggles wrote: »

We breached the 20 mark, tomorrow will be interesting.

Let’s see what to today’s figures are first.

But what is interesting is that people were of the view that Ireland is safe - staycation and visit Irish seaside towns. No worries - all will be grand. Meanwhile anyone who is travelling (even to Green zones) is a leper and dangerous.

Germany (Which is not on the green list) is a lot safer than Ireland and if you get sick there you have a greater chance of survival.

is_that_so

Oranage2 wrote: »

We really need some confidence from our government.

Do they think these numbers are okay? Are they happy enough to open the country more if the hospitalizations remain low? Will these numbers affect the schools opening? How are the managing the clusters?

This silence is making MM look cowardly, we really need strong leadership now but his wait and pray approach is really putting people on edge myself included.

There are five factors they look at - overall cases, hospitalization numbers, ICU numbers, deaths and R0. There's no more "opening" until the end of the month and that is schools, which has to happen. While there is more risk in such a large number moving they can limit that risk by getting the plan right.

Boggles

1641 wrote: »

I don't know about the other factories, but have you read up on the Brady meats one ? What exactly is the issue ?
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus/inside-the-o-brien-fine-foods-factory-in-lockdown-kildare-1.4330267

At 9pm on Wednesday, processing was shut down, and everyone was sent home on full pay, except for six people who were cleared by the HSE to keep working in the warehouse, and five more I see on the factory floor.

O’Brien sought out expert PR advice that evening

I have a bridge to sell you if you believe that steaming pile of absolute horsé****.

Professor Moriarty

Piehead wrote: »

Restaurants will be closed again due to the outrageous scenes today.

Not the ones I go to. That isn't going to happen. Just because a bunch of selfish people decide to go on the piss and have an illegal party, and another bunch of selfish people facilitate them illegally, better not mean that I can't go out and have a meal and a drink.

is_that_so

Piehead wrote: »

Restaurants will be closed again due to the outrageous scenes today.

That one will. The majority of places, according to Gardai, are compliant.

Thierry12

Piehead wrote: »

Restaurants will be closed again due to the outrageous scenes today.

Be murder if that happens

Need to close government departments while we are at it and put all those teachers on bloody Covid payments or get them out helping in nursing homes/hospitals or something

1641

Boggles wrote: »

I have a bridge to sell you if you believe that steaming pile of absolute horsé****.

So? As any company would do? Apart from the smear by innuendo, what is the issue? How does it compare to a pub flouting the guidelines?

MickeyLeari

is_that_so wrote: »

That one will. The majority of places, according to Gardai, are compliant.

Absolutely. Far better to have strong enforcement on the few who transgress rather than shut down the many who are compliant.

Boggles

Thierry12 wrote: »

Be murder if that happens

Need to close government departments while we are at it and put all those teachers on bloody Covid payments or get them out helping in nursing homes/hospitals or something

Why would a teacher be working in a hospital?



We should get plumbers to do surgery.

Boggles

1641 wrote: »

So? As any company would do? Apart from the smear by innuendo, what is the issue? How does it compare to a pub flouting the guidelines?

I never suggested it did compare.

Gruffalux

Boggles wrote: »

27,000 is too high.

8,000+ of those are health care workers, the vast majority of which were infected in work, I also imagine they went on to infect family members.

You would then have to further adjust the figure to capture mass outbreaks in enclosed areas.

Probably a more accurate measure would be community transmission, roughly 9000.

9000 x 9 = 81,000 +70,000 (to be generous).

150,000 odd infections.

My personal opinion, we escaped with a very "mild" first instance of the pandemic.

Thanks for responding.
I can't understand your figures, not because they are wrong. Just because back of envelope stuff needs the envelope in front of us both as people leave out their maths shortcuts.

The 27000 I mention is the reported cases to date rounded up. As per title of thread.

If you meant 270,000 is too big that is based on 5 to 6% seroprevalence which is a number regularly being returned globally including preliminary results here in July.

Can you explain the 9000 figure you multiply then by 9 plus 70000? Just so I know what you mean.

ExMachina1000

drunkmonkey wrote: »

We the people did what was asked, it's out leaders let us down by not stepping up continuing to allow the free flow of people across our borders, we were within days of being in New Zelands boots. Tony could see the prize and was openly disagreeing with the Government, he should have been let finish the job.
Don't ever accuse the people of Ireland for the current state of affairs it's not our fault.
We've take the heard immunity route now let's just get on with it or bring Tony back.

I think Ronan Glynn is doing his job. Clusters popped up and he along with other nephet members recommended moving back a phase in the counties of the clusters.
What else could they do?

As always if public health officials make recommendations but government ignore or go their own route then that's on government.

Nobody has experience in handling a pandemic. There is nothing to go off.

Tork

drunkmonkey wrote: »

We the people did what was asked, it's out leaders let us down by not stepping up continuing to allow the free flow of people across our borders, we were within days of being in New Zelands boots. Tony could see the prize and was openly disagreeing with the Government, he should have been let finish the job.
Don't ever accuse the people of Ireland for the current state of affairs it's not our fault.
We've take the heard (sic) immunity route now let's just get on with it or bring Tony back.

If the Irish people were doing what was being asked of them, we wouldn't have these rises in community transmission rates. We wouldn't have house parties, stories of people congregating in groups all over the place etc. Anybody who doesn't know by now that they're supposed to wash their hands, social distance, wear a mask in certain places, restrict the number of people from other households they're mixing with etc. has been living under a rock for the last 5 months. It's the Irish "it'll be grand" and "rules are for other people" mentality that's coming to the fore here.

Drumpot

MickeyLeari wrote: »

Let’s see what to today’s figures are first.

But what is interesting is that people were of the view that Ireland is safe - staycation and visit Irish seaside towns. No worries - all will be grand. Meanwhile anyone who is travelling (even to Green zones) is a leper and dangerous.

Germany (Which is not on the green list) is a lot safer than Ireland and if you get sick there you have a greater chance of survival.

Granted there are mixed messages and having tourists coming into the country Dilutes our efforts to lower cases.

But from a tracking POV -

- staycation - COVID App makes it easier to contact trace. People get in car drove to destination with no more then one stop needed to go anywhere in Ireland. Easier to keep distance from groups (I air BnBd in Wexford , own house to self and family). Generally good compliance of social distancing and solid Strategies to mitigate risk

- going abroad - airport or ferry. On that alone you can interact with all sorts of people from all parts of world coming and going from lots of places (prob easier on ferry to avoid). In foreign country no contact tracing capacity. Different levels of compliance and strategies per region. Interacting with multiple different communities.

In my france stays I usually count 30%-40% Irish reg plates in our camping site. On weekends you can have blow ins (usually younger crowds looking to party and cheap accommodation) and you can have tourists even just popping in for a few nights on the way to somewhere else.

In short, going on holidays abroad increase the variables with regards to getting and tracing the virus. This makes it harder to manage and identify problem areas.

Thierry12

Boggles wrote: »

Why would a teacher be working in a hospital?



We should get plumbers to do surgery.

They are not doing much sitting at home are they?

Schools are not gonna re-open and they've been off 6 months

We might as well get onto Microsoft and have them write up an education package and have a bot teach the kids at this stage

That's where it's going anyway, might as well start it now

The Unbearables

Thierry12 wrote: »

They are kids

It's been happening in house parties all year

And they are wank8ers also. Screwing us all.

What's the median age for the handful in hospital/ICU

We were told to flatten the curve and save the health sector, there was 900 + in hospital at the peak, why?? because the state left our most vulnerable over exposed causing their numbers to make up abut 60% of deaths. That was like introducing a nasty whooping cough to a creche.

Lets see how fast the death numbers get up,on this so called second wave!! we wont!! we've had 10 deaths in 6 weeks and most were legacy deaths (holding on for a good while in ICU) some craic watching leo and Michael telling us watch out for granny and granda..this from the people who wanted to keep this group pulling tax for them til they're 68!!! this from the group that cut their coal/heating allowance causing "societies most vulnerable" to turn up in droves and reverse it.

They don't give a fiddlers about your granny and granda.

The most vulnerable in society have been drowned in the initial tsunami of this saga, the second wave will be barely felt but the younger and stronger that are catching the wave this time round. Because they're young they can thread water and ride it out fine cause they're fitter and healtier, it;s as simple as that. Watch the death number this time round, that will tell you the tale. The first 1500 was neglegence.

is_that_so

Tork wrote: »

If the Irish people were doing what was being asked of them, we wouldn't have these rises in community transmission rates. We wouldn't have house parties, stories of people congregating in groups all over the place etc. Anybody who doesn't know by now that they're supposed to wash their hands, social distance, wear a mask in certain places, restrict the number of people from other households they're mixing with etc. has been living under a rock for the last 5 months. It's the Irish "it'll be grand" and "rules are for other people" mentality that's coming to the fore here.

Hmm, that whole respect for people lasted what - about two posts?! You must be one of the 70% who thinks anyone who gets COVID is reckless. I suspect there are a whole lot of people who wouldn't sign up to your fun free world.

Tork

I don't respect people who flout the rules in a big way, no. Because these inconsiderate a-holes are ruining the fun world I lived in before this.

niallo27

Tork wrote: »

If the Irish people were doing what was being asked of them, we wouldn't have these rises in community transmission rates. We wouldn't have house parties, stories of people congregating in groups all over the place etc. Anybody who doesn't know by now that they're supposed to wash their hands, social distance, wear a mask in certain places, restrict the number of people from other households they're mixing with etc. has been living under a rock for the last 5 months. It's the Irish "it'll be grand" and "rules are for other people" mentality that's coming to the fore here.

Its not just the Irish, we are seeing the same behaviours most of the world, we do love a good moan though in this country and to put people back in their place.

Thierry12

Tork wrote: »

If the Irish people were doing what was being asked of them, we wouldn't have these rises in community transmission rates. We wouldn't have house parties, stories of people congregating in groups all over the place etc. Anybody who doesn't know by now that they're supposed to wash their hands, social distance, wear a mask in certain places, restrict the number of people from other households they're mixing with etc. has been living under a rock for the last 5 months. It's the Irish "it'll be grand" and "rules are for other people" mentality that's coming to the fore here.

Alot of cases have come from a ethnic group, that obey no laws

Never have and never will

Professor Moriarty

is_that_so wrote: »

Hmm, that whole respect for people lasted what - about two posts?! You must be one of the 70% who thinks anyone who gets COVID is reckless. I suspect there are a whole lot of people who wouldn't sign up to your fun free world.

If they get Covid-19 as a result of that party in Berlin D2, and subsequently pass it on to vulnerable people, then "reckless" isn't a strong enough word.

is_that_so

Tork wrote: »

I don't respect people who flout the rules in a big way, no. Becasue these inconsiderate a-holes are ruining the fun world I lived in before this.

Fair enough. I doubt you respect anyone who doesn't think like you on this.

Tork

Fair enough. I don't give a monkeys what you think

Renjit

Thierry12 wrote: »

Alot of cases have come from a ethnic group, that obey no laws

Was just missing this bit :pac:

Strumms

NK76 wrote: »

It's time people realised that we need to bring all this talk of covid to an end. it is clearly obvious that covid is over...in fact it didn't really exist...our lives need to return to normal, we need to be able to go to the shops, football matches, nights out at the weekends...the psychological damage of this fake flu is far worse than reality...its fear mongering of the highest order.....

...let's get back to normal...take back control...reclaim the momentum ...and look at it again in two months when the kids are back in school and football season has started.....then we will know where we are

Come on let's stand in the face of this adversity and reclaim our lives

Business suffering, miss seeing your frwends ? Awhhhhh deny all you want, stats on death and illness back the need for the restrictions we’ve had and THAT is the reality I’m afraid. :eek:

road_high

niallo27 wrote: »

Its not just the Irish, we are seeing the same behaviours most of the world, we do love a good moan though in this country and to put people back in their place.

Exactly. You’d swear it was an uniquely Irish issue. If anything we’ve been doing way better than other countries.
People need to start accepting this virus is there and will be where ever you have human life.

is_that_so

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

If they get Covid-19 as a result of that party in Berlin D2, and subsequently pass it on to vulnerable people, then "reckless" isn't a strong enough word.

That's not what the ESRI report was talking about - these particular people are reckless, the vast majority of people who catch it are not.

SeaBreezes

schmoo2k wrote: »

Technically you can get chicken pox more than once as well - but it's really unusual - I suspect the same will be true of Covid.

Thats the point. Suspect. Nobody knows yet.
Chinese scientists pointed out covid19 was airborne in feb. Did we listen? No. Scoffed at it. Called it panic mongering.
Did the opposite and said masks not needed.
We had to learn the hard way.

Any reinfection warnings coming from chinese scientists i would sit up and take notice..

Professor Moriarty

is_that_so wrote: »

That's not what the ESRI report was talking about - these particular people are reckless, the vast majority of people who catch it are not.

Agreed.

Boggles

Thierry12 wrote: »

Schools are not gonna re-open and they've been off 6 months

Really?

Who declared that?

mountgomery burns

Steve F wrote: »

My two cents on the Zero Covid debate.
People saying it's isn't possible....using NZ as an example.The reason they couldn't maintain the zero status was because the rest of the world didn't toe the line also.
The WHO said early on that we could defeat this virus if THE WHOLE WORLD PULLED TOGETHER AS ONE.

The opportunity to achieve that has now long gone.
Most of the world population couldn't see the bigger picture....short term pain long term gain.

The choices made in February,March by most countries sealed our fate.
The virus will be with us forever now in some shape or form.
The attitude by most was "Ah sure this will all blow over in a few weeks"

That's a very low threshold for failure. Any idea that requires buy in from 7bn people regardless of all the different interests, agendas, infrastructure etc is not going to work.

John O.Groats

Thierry12 wrote: »

They are kids

It's been happening in house parties all year

Wrong pal. They were so called adults who should have some basic cop on. Kids would know better than to act like these absolute ****ing morons.

Glenomra

I think when this episode is examined historically it will be seen as an example of 'collective stupidity'. Amazing how the masses of people allowed themselves become paranoid about a relatively harmless virus.

John O.Groats

niallo27 wrote: »

Its not just the Irish, we are seeing the same behaviours most of the world, we do love a good moan though in this country and to put people back in their place.

Unfortunately there are clueless selfish morons everywhere in the world.

Boggles

Gruffalox wrote: »

Thanks for responding.
I can't understand your figures, not because they are wrong. Just because back of envelope stuff needs the envelope in front of us both as people leave out their maths shortcuts.

The 27000 I mention is the reported cases to date rounded up. As per title of thread.

If you meant 270,000 is too big that is based on 5 to 6% seroprevalence which is a number regularly being returned globally including preliminary results here in July.

Can you explain the 9000 figure you multiply then by 9 plus 70000? Just so I know what you mean.

The preliminary results in July were >5% and the uptake in testing was too low. In other places that have done widespread they can widely vary.

Basically taking the headline figure of 27,000 and multiplying it by X is far too blunt an instrument that does take into account the dozens of other factors at play that can determine the true extent of infection.

I used 9 because that is the number you used.

For instance if 1000 care home residents confined to indoors test positive, is it right to multiply that number by X?

Similarly with 7000 odd health care workers who got infected at work.

But even at 150,000 infections the hospitalization rate is low at circa 2%.

s1ippy

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

They are entitled to their opinions and thoughts though are they not?

My feeling is that their thoughts are unhelpful (and probably facetious) when they're specifically designed to stir up agro. Unless you've been living under a rock for the past six months, the actions of the people in that bar will clearly be quite troubling because they're drunk af, not distancing and wearing masks wrong while shouting over music, standing up on the bar and breathing down on each other, bringing around a tray of drinks that everyone is handling... Even as I write that I'm lmao because it's absurd to think that's grand right now

That's going to bother people when they have the self-control not to do that. Especially law-abiding publicans who may lose their livelihoods.

ExMachina1000

Cases rising around Europe but deaths dropping fast.
Why?

Younger people are getting the virus , sick for a few weeks and then recover.

Isolate clusters for a few weeks and repeatedly test
Protect the vulnerable while the rest of us get on with it.

Steve F

mountgomery burns wrote: »

That's a very low threshold for failure. Any idea that requires buy in from 7bn people regardless of all the different interests, agendas, infrastructure etc is not going to work.

For 2 to 3 weeks?

ACitizenErased

This whole blaming thing is ridiculous tbh, nobody goes out with the intention of being stupid and getting infected.
That Berlin place is known for this ****, it was made very clear last night. Blanket blaming an age group is incredibly out of touch.

seefin

Santy2015 wrote: »

That 25 out of 200 is still only 12.5% community transmission. Well below what the average actually is

I thought they said last night that they still haven't identified how ~100 out of the 200 had acquired, so community transmission could be higher?

ACitizenErased

seefin wrote: »

I thought they said last night that they still haven't identified how ~100 out of the 200 had acquired, so community transmission could be higher?

The remainder = travel, healthcare workers and cases under investigation

drunkmonkey

s1ippy wrote: »

My feeling is that their thoughts are unhelpful (and probably facetious) when they're specifically designed to stir up agro. Unless you've been living under a rock for the past six months, the actions of the people in that bar will clearly be quite troubling because they're drunk af, not distancing and wearing masks wrong while shouting over music, standing up on the bar and breathing on each other. Even as I write that I'm lmao because it's absurd to think that's grand right now

That's going to bother people when they have the self-control not to do that. Especially law-abiding publicans who may lose their livelihoods.

That age group aren't doing it anyway, house parties, beach parties etc there also the group handling all your groceries behind the perspex, i'm pro most measures except the unfounded mandatory mask policy nipping in for a coffee or a carton of milk. The pub rules are plain stupid when measured against other rules. 6mts in prison for not wearing a mask is not warranted and shouldn't be blindly accepted.
This is what we know about masks outside of a labatory, https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/masking-lack-of-evidence-with-politics/ (one of the authors of that report addressed the covid advisory committee the other day and also is reporting into the WHO, so it's not just my opinion)
I'm anti mask as the other guidelines have gone out the window, I'd prefer we stick with the original guidelines as it seems to have had a better effect on controlling the spread, instead masks were introduced numbers have gone up there is no denying that and there's no denying people are ignoring the basics.
You can point to masks being effective in a labatory environment, we don't live in a labatory though.

is_that_so

OK, having watched the Noel Rock linked video to Berlin, the only saving grace is low numbers inside and that a good few of them are making an effort to distance.

mountgomery burns

Steve F wrote: »

For 2 to 3 weeks?

For 10 minutes even. You're talking about every single person in the world buying into the same ideology, it has never happened ever. See world peace, fight against poverty, equality for all for reference.

expectationlost

is_that_so wrote: »

OK, having watched the Noel Rock linked video to Berlin, the only saving grace is low numbers inside and that a good few of them are making an effort to distance.

https://twitter.com/ErikaScally/status/1294939435923111936