Covid 19 Part XXI-27,908 in ROI (1,777 deaths) 6,647 in NI (559 deaths)(22/08)Read OP

hmmm

Patd6 wrote: »

Are people expecting a big announcement tomorrow from Michael Martin? Comments today by nphet and Mr Glynn hinting at things changing

It was quite ominous, I'm not sure what the point was other than to get people worried.

The messaging is arseways since the government changeover. If you are trying to scare the public into compliance (and that is a viable strategy at times to raise awareness), you have to be clear what exactly it is you are asking them to do.

jackboy

gifted wrote: »

They'll have to flex some muscle...lots of people just shrugging their shoulders at them now and don't care anymore

Ban all sales of alcohol in the country. That’ll do the trick.

ACitizenErased

hmmm wrote: »

It was quite ominous, I'm not sure what the point was other than to get people worried.

The messaging is arseways since the government changeover. If you are trying to scare the public into compliance (and that is a viable strategy at times to raise awareness), you have to be clear what exactly it is you are asking them to do.

I think the points today were PR stuff after dame lane tbh

caveat emptor

Marty Bird wrote: »

Sure any disease or virus that has been discovered throughout human history is still with us today in some shape or form.

Marty.

By some form you mean in a freezer somewhere? smallpox?

https://twitter.com/BodyForWife/status/1294991599319920642?s=20

DevilsHaircut

General rules of thumb.

If it's only on

Facebook
• YouTube
• Twitter
• Fox News

it's not science.


If it's by a:

• stock market investor
• bitcoin promoter
• economist
• diet guru
• preacher
• influencer
• Donald Trump

it's not science.

MerlinSouthDub

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Closing the restaurants/food pubs is the strongest card they have to play but actual facts and evidence would say it's the wrong target and the meat factories should be shut down.

If they closed the restaurants/food pubs, then there would just be loads of house parties. And house parties are the root of all evil....

stephenjmcd

Italy to close nightclubs (not sure why they even opened)

Masks will be required between 6pm and 6am in areas close to bars and pubs and where gatherings are more likely.

ACitizenErased

DevilsHaircut wrote: »

General rules of thumb.

If it's only on

• Facebook
• YouTube
• Twitter
• Fox News

it's not science.


If it's by a:

• stock market investor
• bitcoin promoter
• economist
• diet guru
• preacher
• influencer
• Donald Trump

it's not science.

You can add Daily Mail to that list, some posters here love that kip.

harr

ACitizenErased wrote: »

I think the points today were PR stuff after dame lane tbh

Yeah but the likes of those in dame lane don’t care or will never listen. Asking pubs , restaurants , meat factories or what ever establishment nicely to comply with regulations
Is not working. Examples need to be made of those flaunting the rules . No point in scolding the whole country because of a few muppets in one pub or using dame lane to punish the pubs who are complying with the rules.

DevilsHaircut

Widdensushi wrote: »

Thinly veiled I am a pensioner and don't care what happens future generations as long as I don't have to pay

https://twitter.com/davidmcw/status/1290950730430525440

Marty Bird

caveat emptor wrote: »

By some form you mean in a freezer somewhere? smallpox?

https://twitter.com/BodyForWife/status/1294991599319920642?s=20

Yeah I read that before that the virus still exists I know there have been no known cases since the 80s or earlier.

ACitizenErased

harr wrote: »

Yeah but the likes of those in dame lane don’t care or will never listen. Asking pubs , restaurants , meat factories or what ever establishment nicely to comply with regulations
Is not working. Examples need to be made of those flaunting the rules . No point in scolding the whole country because of a few muppets in one pub or using dame lane to punish the pubs who are complying with the rules.

Oh I know, I completely agree. The communication strategy is scandalous.

wadacrack

T cell immunity may help but not that much. This is a study without any obvious bias that seems to be common when T Cells are mentioned.

https://twitter.com/AdamJKucharski/status/1294985940524507136

owlbethere

harr wrote: »

Yeah but the likes of those in dame lane don’t care or will never listen. Asking pubs , restaurants , meat factories or what ever establishment nicely to comply with regulations
Is not working. Examples need to be made of those flaunting the rules . No point in scolding the whole country because of a few muppets in one pub or using dame lane to punish the pubs who are complying with the rules.

What we need are massive fines slapped down upon those who break the public health guidelines.

DevilsHaircut

hmmm wrote: »

It was quite ominous, I'm not sure what the point was other than to get people worried.

The messaging is arseways since the government changeover. If you are trying to scare the public into compliance (and that is a viable strategy at times to raise awareness), you have to be clear what exactly it is you are asking them to do.

In fairness, there has to be agreement, between NPHET tomorrow and Cabinet on Tuesday.

I don't think that either of them could have issued unilateral edicts today.

ACitizenErased

owlbethere wrote: »

What we need are massive fines slapped down upon those who break the public health guidelines.

This is Ireland though

Bubbaclaus

DevilsHaircut wrote: »

https://twitter.com/davidmcw/status/1290950730430525440

Just because it can be financed at a 0% rate doesnt mean it does not have to be repaid at some point, or else refinanced in the future at a positive interest rate. The amount of people that got misled by that headline is atrocious.

pjohnson

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

If they closed the restaurants/food pubs, then there would just be loads of house parties. And house parties are the root of all evil....

Dunno if a house party would be as thick as the carry on in Berlin. Invariably house parties WILL run out of drink.

DevilsHaircut

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Just because it can be financed at a 0% rate doesnt mean it does not have to be repaid at some point, or else refinanced in the future at a positive interest rate. The amount of people that got misled by that headline is atrocious.

National debts are never repaid.

That's the point.

They are rolled over.

road_high

owlbethere wrote: »

What we need are massive fines slapped down upon those who break the public health guidelines.

Yea because that will really work...I think some people are losing their heads here, lost all connection with reality or something- human behaviour being what it is will always find a way. All you’re doing is driving “it” all underground.
So fine away, this virus will still be there the other end. Unless you’re attempting to get into the realms of complete mind control

road_high

DevilsHaircut wrote: »

National debts are never repaid.

That's the point.

They are rolled over.

No but they must be serviced out of national exchequer. Meaning less money for all the things like welfare, healthcare, education that the public enjoy to the current high standards

GooglePlus

As thick as this may sound, don't judge. What would happen if the slate was wiped clean on all global debt? Like a collective global write off.

Will the reliance on the pay back effect economies or what would happen?

Van.Bosch

GooglePlus wrote: »

As thick as this may sound, don't judge. What would happen if the slate was wiped clean on all global debt? Like a collective global write off.

Will the reliance on the pay back effect economies or what would happen?

Well the money is mainly owed to pension funds etc, so everyone’s retirement savings would be wiped out.

Strumms

froog wrote: »

this thing is not in control and it's going to get worse. what exactly are we doing? crossing our fingers and hoping for the best? our current level of controls is clearly not sufficient.

Controls and behavior/self discipline too.

Laws can control the behaviors of the likes of workplaces, pubs, etc.... but ultimately when I get up in the morning until I go to bed, it’s on me....my own behavior, my own discipline... yes it’s boring to a point... but here tonight, is the result... of people being undisciplined, uncaring and crap humans quite frankly...

I didn’t agree with reopening pubs, I gave the reasons why at the time, and what we are seeing on YouTube now is indicative of why so many of us had concerns... yes, I know, ordering the ‘burrito antidote’ too will sort everything....

I’d have been interested to see how things might have panned out if Martin had been in charge from day one, instead of that big fûcking absolutely useless virtue signaling corporate toss bag Varadkar...

Martin hasn’t been great but what we are suffering for now is the complete inaction and slow out of the traps response from Leo & co.... can be no denying that... yet here we are...

Bubbaclaus

DevilsHaircut wrote: »

National debts are never repaid.

That's the point.

They are rolled over.

Unless interest rates stay at near 0 forever, at some point that rolling over is going to be at an interest rate that will have a severe effect on the exchequer.

bb1234567

Large outbreak in Lebanon last few days, wonder if it's related to the explosion .

CalamariFritti

So we're in meltdown mode cos some kids had a few drinks and danced and someone filmed it? Or was there 500 cases today that I missed? No seriously what's going?

DevilsHaircut

road_high wrote: »

No but they must be serviced out of national exchequer. Meaning less money for all the things like welfare, healthcare, education that the public enjoy to the current high standards

The interest must be paid, currently around 0%.

I think it must be obvious at this stage any the tax/spend rebalancing needed in the short term will be targeted at capital taxes.

Strumms

CalamariFritti wrote: »

So we're in meltdown mode cos some kids had a few drinks and danced and someone filmed it? Or was there 500 cases today that I missed?

We are in ‘concerned mode’ because of ‘people’ ( forget the age demographic, covid doesn’t care) who are being careless and selfish in their behaviors...

Away With The Fairies

CalamariFritti wrote: »

So we're in meltdown mode cos some kids had a few drinks and danced and someone filmed it? Or was there 500 cases today that I missed?

It was the irresponsibility of them. It takes one of them to spread it to others around them. They take it home to their families. They might feel fine tomorrow morning and go into work and spread it in work.

pjohnson

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

It was the irresponsibility of them. It takes one of them to spread it to others around them. They take it home to their families. They might feel fine tomorrow morning and go into work and spread it in work.

Can only hope most are unemployed and wont get an admish to a workplace

coastwatch

The outbreaks associated with factories and work places over the past two weeks have caused of the current spikes.
It's probably good that it has happened over a short period of time and in so many locations, meat plants, pet food plants, mushroom plants, because it highlights the current "weakest links" in this, and how it can spread from the community into a work place and then back into the wider community even more.
The HSA (Health and Safety Authority) need to be given the powers to risk assess and force temporary closures of these types of operations.
They should be risk assessing the working environment and just as importantly, employees living arrangements.
GP referrals and testing should be at no cost to the employee.
They also need to ensure all employees qualify for the Covid Illness payment, regardless of the type of employment contract.

road_high

DevilsHaircut wrote: »

The interest must be paid, currently around 0%.

I think it must be obvious at this stage any the tax/spend rebalancing needed in the short term will be targeted at capital taxes.

Have no idea what our current debt servicing costs are per annum tbh (it had been falling as a % of GDP) but it did run to many billions still?
Which worries me a time if shrinking economy and hugely increased borrowing

Rambling Man

CalamariFritti wrote: »

So we're in meltdown mode cos some kids had a few drinks and danced and someone filmed it? Or was there 500 cases today that I missed? No seriously what's going?

Yeah and they were dancing to ‘The Killers’ - an obvious reference to their attitude to Covid19

DevilsHaircut

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Unless interest rates stay at near 0 forever, at some point that rolling over is going to be at an interest rate that will have a severe effect on the exchequer.

The effect of inflation serves to reduce the national debt over time.

Really, with most countries in the same boat and the EU underwriting everyone to the tune of €750bn, it's not something that people should panic about.

Money doesn't actually exist.

Tenzor07

DevilsHaircut wrote: »

National debts are never repaid.
That's the point.
They are rolled over.

Higher national debt = more risk of defaulting on Bonds when due.
Higher risk to investors/purchasers of Irish debt bonds = higher interest
Higher interest on Irish debt = higher taxes on everything from your wages to food
Higher taxes = less spending, cash flow in the economy grinds to a halt
State can't pay Civil service, nurses, gards, teachers.
We go back to the 1980's in terms of power cuts, public service strikes..
Companies pull out of Ireland due to the financial situation.

Only thing slowing down this longer term scenario is that we're in the Euro... however Germany, Netherlands and the other wealthier northern Euro members won't keep using their taxpayers cash to keep paying Ireland's bills... They already don't want to pay for Southern Europes financial issues.

Another lockdown will bring the state closer to the above..

CalamariFritti

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

It was the irresponsibility of them. It takes one of them to spread it to others around them. They take it home to their families. They might feel fine tomorrow morning and go into work and spread it in work.

So its really that then? Jesus guys. I can guarantee you that for every such session that ends up getting filmed there are 500 that aren't.

Serious overreaction once again.

Strumms

CalamariFritti wrote: »

So its really that then? Jesus guys. I can guarantee you that for every such session that ends up getting filmed there are 500 that aren't.

Serious overreaction once again.

It’s simply not an overreaction. Rather any overreaction though to some saying “ ahhh few drinks and letting their hair down, no harm done” and enabling people to believe that after all the hard work and sacrifices that’s ok... it ain’t.

hmmm

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I can guarantee you that for every such session that ends up getting filmed there are 500 that aren't.

I think that's the wider point and the focus of people's anger.

Most people are doing their best to try and abide by the public health guidance, and it's tough. They know there is a 10% out there who don't give a damn, and in many ways are rubbing their lack of care into the faces of those who do care - house parties, no attempts at social distancing, not wearing masks etc.

This pub/restaurant whatever it is has provided the public with a way to focus their anger on that group. I don't think anyone wants their local restaurant to be shut down as a consequence and there would be a lot of anger if there was, but they want something done about people who they feel are behaving in a way which is a flagrant breach of the wider national effort to keep case numbers down.

Hand in Your Pants

They were just having a little fun.

road_high

CalamariFritti wrote: »

So its really that then? Jesus guys. I can guarantee you that for every such session that ends up getting filmed there are 500 that aren't.

Serious overreaction once again.

It’s trial by social media. I’ve actually deactivated Facebook as I can’t take anymore of it personally.
Opportunistic idiots like Noel rock and co with their faux outrage- daily sustenance for the baying perma outraged mobs, fcuk off please!

Tmoro it’ll be something else. People have too much time on their hands- desperately need work, education, sports and events to put in their time. This toxic ****e is negative poison

CalamariFritti

The reality is the longer this goes on the more responsibility and compliance will erode. So are we saying we should go full police state on them?

owlbethere

road_high wrote: »

Have no idea what our current debt servicing costs are per annum tbh (it had been falling as a % of GDP) but it did run to many billions still?
Which worries me a time if shrinking economy and hugely increased borrowing

All the more reasons for starting to slap massive fines upon the population for breaking public health guidelines. I know it won't fix the billions of a deficit but the more the virus is suppressed the quicker we get back to some sort of normality. People flaunting the guidelines and the virus will spread more and there will be more lockdowns like regional lockdowns. I was witness over the past week to someone not restricting their movements and contacts even though they had a cold. I know some people will argue, it's a cold, leave them be, if we all isolated with a cold, the world would stop turning. Tony said the days of going to work and school with colds are over. If everyone went about with colds and self diagnosing themselves with colds and telling themselves they don't need a covid19, there's going to be times where them colds may be something more sinister. We all have a part to play going forward to maintain social distancing, avoid crowds, keep close contacts low, isolate ourselves if we feel unwell

fly_agaric

coastwatch wrote: »

The HSA (Health and Safety Authority) need to be given the powers to risk assess and force temporary closures of these types of operations.
They should be risk assessing the working environment and just as importantly, employees living arrangements.

Does Ireland have the numbers of inspectors & any systems in place to do that for workplaces all over the country? It is an honest question. I don't know but have my doubts that we do (given 'light touch' regulation of employers that seems to be favoured here and has popped up again as a problem now).

road_high

CalamariFritti wrote: »

The reality is the longer this goes on the more responsibility and compliance will erode. So are we saying we should go full police state on them?

Watch it go underground. Then what? Arrest people on mass? Dangerous territory in terms of personal liberties but no doubt heaven for the perma outraged in society.

Bubbaclaus

DevilsHaircut wrote: »

The effect of inflation serves to reduce the national debt over time.

Really, with most countries in the same boat and the EU underwriting everyone to the tune of €750bn, it's not something that people should panic about.

Money doesn't actually exist.

I take it you have no economic knowledge with comments like that.

That 750bn isnt coming out of thin air FYI. Ireland will be paying for more of it then it will actually receive.

Eric Cartman

pjohnson wrote: »

Can only hope most are unemployed and wont get an admish to a workplace

bingo.

People calling for pitchforks for the bar owner, word on the street is the rent moratorium is ending soon as is the business continuation payment, they weren't going to be around to see the lockdown lifted anyway.

I suspect a few more publicans will have a similar 'last hoorah' when their accountants tell them continuation isn't viable.

DevilsHaircut

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Higher national debt = more risk of defaulting on Bonds when due....

Those who have money are actually paying central banks to take it, and are giving it to governments for 0 interest.

Every single country in the world (bar China probably) will have a higher national debt after this.

Seriously, there's a lot of hysteria and fear-mongering among the economist types on here :cool:

Tenzor07

CalamariFritti wrote: »

The reality is the longer this goes on the more responsibility and compliance will erode. So are we saying we should go full police state on them?

The Irish are extremely compliant, and the reaction to a group of young people having a party has shown this... May Be part begrudgery as the Irish are known for...the reaction to seeing what people have been doing in Bars for decades has been to paint these young people as criminals, miscreants and traitors to the national cause....

The fact is the scenario we saw on social media today is going on in 1000's of houses all over the country... Companies selling beer kegs and taps can't keep them in stock, supermarkets sell a can of beer cheaper than a litre of milk..
There's more cocaine being snorted up noses at these parties and it's all cheap and easily available too as dealers try make cash by selling cheap and destroying the competition...literally.

political analyst

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

For a child living in the same house as a grandparent?

I doubt there are many families where children are living in the same house as their grandparents, to be honest. Besides, it's not necessarily difficult to ensure an adequate distance between the grandparent and the child in the same room.