Covid 19 Part XXI-27,908 in ROI (1,777 deaths) 6,647 in NI (559 deaths)(22/08)Read OP

road_high

MickeyLeari wrote: »

It is a distraction.

Listened to RTÉ today where Michael McNamara was being shouted down despite knowing more than any of the panellists.

He is right. We have lost our senses.

That the loons shouted him down sort of proves his point. If you’re not consumed by angst and indignation then you’re a granny killer.
Think he’s a medical doctor by profession.

political analyst

DubInMeath wrote: »

Reminds me of someone on here saying sure it's only measles.

The full letter and some stats in it.

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/children-are-vulnerable-to-covid-19-and-face-coverings-should-be-compulsory-in-all-schools-39451432.html

There's a world of difference between measles and a virus that is in the same 'family' as the one that causes the common cold - and is less harmful than the virus that broke out in China in 2002!

political analyst

Deleted User wrote: »

Good article in Irish Times this evening re: McConkey and zero covid policy. Government have to change policy in my opinion also. Zero covid policy in Ireland with diplomacy for Northern ireland/UK to follow suit in due course. All this blaming of sections of society when government policy especially in last two months has been incorrect given we are one of the few islands in Europe. We need to exploit our island geography. Northern Ireland has followed our policys up to now. They will follow us again if it is coherent. Our weak link has been loose border controls. We were probably down to a few hundred cases in the country in June, but with new imports each week with no proper quarantine it is inevitable with restrictions relaxed that we are increasing. Zero covid policy means we could fully reopen society and treat exclusively non covid patients for the next 12/18 months. Economically and healthwise most optimum outcome. All countries are waiting for vaccine. This is best solution rather than locking and unlocking society every few months and all the anger, disruption and costs of many lockdowns.

You must have meant 'Northern Ireland/GB' - given that the UK's full name is 'United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland'!

SeaBreezes

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

It's not, but it's distrubing that those advocating this position seem to be getting a lot of air time without a countering position being given equal consideration.

The countering position, herd immunity is being showcased for us by US, Brazil and Sweden. So far no gains economically, in fact worse than their neighbours and horrific death counts...

Whereas NZ has shown it is possible

road_high

SeaBreezes wrote: »

The countering position, herd immunity is being showcased for us by US, Brazil and Sweden. So far no gains economically, in fact worse than their neighbours and horrific death counts...

Whereas NZ has shown it is possible

Sweden isn’t a whole lot worse than us from figures I’ve seen at a glance.

fritzelly

redarmy wrote: »

Breaking #COVID19 outbreak in #Howth Co,Dublin after wedding.Some guests travelled from the UK for the gathering.Some of the guests are now receiving treatment in Dublin and London hospitals.

Sauce?

SeaBreezes

road_high wrote: »

Sweden isn’t a whole lot worse than us from figures I’ve seen at a glance.

Still worse. And crazy high death count in excess deaths..

Plumbthedepths

SeaBreezes wrote: »

The countering position, herd immunity is being showcased for us by US, Brazil and Sweden. So far no gains economically, in fact worse than their neighbours and horrific death counts...

Whereas NZ has shown it is possible

Argentina has a fairly restrictive lockdown, how does their death rate compare to peer countries.
Btw you miss the recent lockdown in NZ.

redarmy

fritzelly wrote: »

Sauce?

https://twitter.com/padraig_reilly/status/1295135077647683584

political analyst

road_high wrote: »

That the loons shouted him down sort of proves his point. If you’re not consumed by angst and indignation then you’re a granny killer.
Think he’s a medical doctor by profession.

Why would you regard Sinéad O'Carroll, Marie-Louise O'Donnell and Karl Deeter as 'loons'? All of them are very intelligent people, as far as I know.

caveat emptor

September is going to be sh!t.

https://twitter.com/DWUhlfelderLaw/status/1295148139456925696?s=20

Arghus

El Sueño wrote: »

People still think the zero covid approach is possible? Seriously?

I don't think it's something particularly practical. It's definitely not easy and it would require a similar approach from the UK. There's no point in us going it alone attached to a country that isn't pursuing the same strategy.

It's not going to happen now. There's no political will to do it. Right now everyone is scrambling to fight the fire and try to learn and get better at it on the fly.

But, I do wonder if, hypothetically, Winter is bad - and I mean fcking bad - the dial on what's considered desirable and possible might get moved a fair bit. The true limits of trying to live alongside Covid will show themselves pretty clearly during those months. Expect the calls for a zero covid approach to get louder and louder. I have a feeling in my bones that people's attitudes will eventually shift on this issue.

Just for the record I hope that Winter is not bad and that we muddle along somehow but I have the severest of severe doubts that we will. We're struggling - really struggling - to get a handle on things right now in late Summer, from where we were at fck all cases just a few weeks ago and with no competing cold and flu season, no schools or colleges back and no legions of people coughing and spluttering on each other in the dark days, the cold weather and with the damp just about everywhere. To me it's as obvious as night follows day that this Winter is going to be a complete shyteshow.

And after that, well we'll see where we are in terms of what is considered practical, sustainable.

Wolf359f

SeaBreezes wrote: »

The countering position, herd immunity is being showcased for us by US, Brazil and Sweden. So far no gains economically, in fact worse than their neighbours and horrific death counts...

Whereas NZ has shown it is possible

Can I ask why NZ is held in such high regard?
There's plenty of counties doing better that NZ, so why focus on NZ? They certainly haven't handled as good as others

political analyst

MickeyLeari wrote: »

It is a distraction.

Listened to RTÉ today where Michael McNamara was being shouted down despite knowing more than any of the panellists.

He is right. We have lost our senses.

Disagreeing with someone is not 'shouting-down'.

Sinéad O'Carroll told Dr McNamara that he was talking about an issue separate from Cawley's resignation from Fáilte Ireland and Damien O'Reilly was denying that our government's response to the pandemic was hysterical.

Plumbthedepths

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Zero Covid policy on an island with two different governments is BS. Btw the nursing home deaths are a consequence of policy. We had advance warning from Italy's experience. Even in March Holohan was telling the nursing homes not to act unilaterally by banning visitors. I have a serious issue when people try to rewrite history.

Northern Ireland have followed our policies to date. When we introduced measures, they followed. They will follow again. Scotland and Northern Ireland have already endorsed zero covid policy. Our restrictions etc. are similar/level of disease is similar. What have we to loose from zero covid policy? New Zealand failed they got 30 cases of community transmission to date in last week or so. I would take that level of failure every time. There is no point blaming on past events. We learn, we be pragmatic, we plan for the future.

Plumbthedepths

political analyst wrote: »

Why would you regard Sinéad O'Carroll, Marie-Louise O'Donnell and Karl Deeter as 'loons'? All of them are very intelligent people, as far as I know.

Intelligence is not a protection from hysteria.

fritzelly

Arghus wrote: »

But, I do wonder if, hypothetically, Winter is bad - and I mean fcking bad - the dial on what's considered desirable and possible might get moved a fair bit. The true limits of trying to live alongside Covid will show themselves pretty clearly during those months. Expect the calls for a zero covid approach to get louder and louder. I have a feeling in my bones that people's attitudes will eventually shift on this issue.

Likely to be one of the best winters with everyone sanitizing and wearing masks ergo stopping the flu spreading

Wolf359f

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Northern Ireland have followed our policies to date. When we introduced measures, they followed. They will follow again. Scotland and Northern Ireland have already endorsed zero covid policy. Our restrictions etc. are similar/level of disease is similar. What have we to loose from zero covid policy? New Zealand failed they got 30 cases of community transmission to date in last week or so. I would take that level of failure every time. There is no point blaming on past events. We learn, we be pragmatic, we plan for the future.

I'm sorry, there's absolutely no way NI would block British citizens from entering NI. I don't even think they could legally do it. It's a devolved government, but they don't that that kind of control.

Plumbthedepths

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Northern Ireland have followed our policies to date. When we introduced measures, they followed. They will follow again. Scotland and Northern Ireland have already endorsed zero covid policy. Our restrictions etc. are similar/level of disease is similar. What have we to loose from zero covid policy? New Zealand failed they got 30 cases of community transmission to date in last week or so. I would take that level of failure every time. There is no point blaming on past events. We learn, we be pragmatic, we plan for the future.

The nicest description I can describe your reply with is delusion, but if clinging onto such makes you happy I won't point out the flaws.

Arghus

fritzelly wrote: »

Likely to be one of the best winters with everyone sanitizing and wearing masks ergo stopping the flu spreading

It's possible. That would be a fantastic outcome. But I think more people coughing, sniffing and spluttering will just add to the chaos and confusion.

SeaBreezes

https://twitter.com/HelenBranswell/status/1294792276988887040

Strumms

While I get the benefit of looking outside the country a bit for a ‘perspective’ of how other nations and societies are getting on... we need to focus on ourselves. I don’t get... look... xxx country, no lockdown and ONLY xxxx deaths...

Ireland has a completely different social outlook, you can’t replicate doing what’s happening in xxx country and just expect it to succeed. Our psychological traits are completely different, for a start.

Away With The Fairies

caveat emptor wrote: »

September is going to be sh!t.

https://twitter.com/DWUhlfelderLaw/status/1295148139456925696?s=20

Wake me up when 2020 ends.

SeaBreezes

Arghus wrote: »

It's possible. That would be a fantastic outcome. But I think more people coughing, sniffing and spluttering will just add to the chaos and confusion.

I also linked to studies where fatalities of covid19 also had flu. You can get both at the same time

Winter is coming.

political analyst

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Intelligence is not a protection from hysteria.

McNamara was allowed to get his points across. The others simply disagreed with him.

Plumbthedepths

Arghus wrote: »

It's possible. That would be a fantastic outcome. But I think more people coughing, sniffing and spluttering will just add to the chaos and confusion.

Coughing/sniffing/spluttering into a facemask?Be grand.

fritzelly

Strumms wrote: »

While I get the benefit of looking outside the country a bit for a ‘perspective’ of how other nations and societies are getting on... we need to focus on ourselves. I don’t get... look... xxx country, no lockdown and ONLY xxxx deaths...

Ireland has a completely different social outlook, you can’t replicate doing what’s happening in xxx country and just expect it to succeed. Our psychological traits are completely different, for a start.

Very true - every country is different from every other country. Even comparing us to the uk is pointless - we might be very similar but we are also very different

A league of tables of who is doing better than anyone else is almost facetious

Plumbthedepths

political analyst wrote: »

McNamara was allowed to get his points across. The others simply disagreed with him.

McNamara is a legislator whom I assume is privy to advice and information from many experts. Karl Deleted gives economic advice to paying customers.

Wolf359f

Strumms wrote: »

While I get the benefit of looking outside the country a bit for a ‘perspective’ of how other nations and societies are getting on... we need to focus on ourselves. I don’t get... look... xxx country, no lockdown and ONLY xxxx deaths...

Ireland has a completely different social outlook, you can’t replicate doing what’s happening in xxx country and just expect it to succeed. Our psychological traits are completely different, for a start.

True. Every country is totally different.
China orders it's people to jump: people jump
NZ ask their population to jump: they say ok and jump
Ireland ask their population to jump: they ask why?
Ireland tell their population to jump: they reluctantly jump, but bitch and moan.
Same kinda instructions, different mentality

brooke 2

political analyst wrote: »

Disagreeing with someone is not 'shouting-down'.

Sinéad O'Carroll told Dr McNamara that he was talking about an issue separate from Cawley's resignation from Fáilte Ireland and Damien O'Reilly was denying that our government's response to the pandemic was hysterical.

AFAIK, Michael McNamara is a barrister. From what I heard today, he did plenty of shouting himself!

Quite worrying to think that he is the Chair of the government committee on Covid 19, as, from what I remember, he seemed to be in favour of opening everything up. Guess his East Clare publican constituents were happy with his performance this morning!

Arghus

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Coughing/sniffing/spluttering into a facemask?Be grand.

Let's hope so.

fritzelly

Arghus wrote: »

Let's hope so.

Be curious how the flu jab uptake is this year - certainly don't want a double whammy of catching both (coz it looks like CV is going nowhere)
I only got it last year as been a long while since I've had it (30 years or so) and thought I'm due a dose

Plumbthedepths

Arghus wrote: »

Let's hope so.

650,000 lost annually from influenza, SD, hand hygiene, cough etiquette and face masks should go along way to reducing that number. Makes you wonder why such measures were not considered/ imposed before.

fritzelly

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

650,000 lost annually from influenza, SD, hand hygiene, cough etiquette and face masks should go along way to reducing that number. Makes you wonder why such measures were not considered/ imposed before.

Because that is not our way of life, or how humans have even evolved

caveat emptor

I think we won't be able to go zerocovid for some time. It'll take time and anger to bring about that kind of change.
The effects of this thing are only really starting to come out.
When people start to realise the extent of the damage they may well demand change.

Don’t just look at covid-19 fatality rates. Look at people who survive — but don’t entirely recover

Anecdotal reports of these people abound. At least seven elite college athletes
have developed myocarditis, an inflammation of the heart muscle that can have severe consequences,
including sudden death. An Austrian doctor who treats scuba divers reported that six patients,
who had only mild covid-19 infections, seem to have significant and permanent lung damage.
Social media communities sprang up of people who are still suffering, months after they were
infected, with everything from chronic fatigue and “brain fog” to chest pain and recurrent fevers.

Now, data is coming in behind the anecdotes, and while it’s preliminary, it’s also “concerning,” says Clyde Yancy,
chief of cardiology at Northwestern University’s Feinberg School of Medicine.
A recent study from Germany followed up with 100 recovered patients,
two-thirds of whom were never sick enough to be hospitalized.
Seventy-eight showed signs of cardiac involvement, and MRIs indicated
that 60 of them had ongoing cardiac inflammation,
even though it had been at least two months since their diagnosis.

Those patients would, on average, be much younger than the ones who are dying;
the median age in the German study was 49. These are patients with many years of life to lose,
either to disability or early death. And there are disturbing findings from much younger patients;
a study of 186 children who had MIS-C, the (thankfully rare) inflammatory syndrome
that can occur with pediatric covid-19, showed 15 had developed aneurysms of the coronary artery.

https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1295144042045423616?s=20

FintanMcluskey

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

650,000 lost annually from influenza, SD, hand hygiene, cough etiquette and face masks should go along way to reducing that number. Makes you wonder why such measures were not considered/ imposed before.

Thats a conservative number. As far as I'm aware influenza is not a reportable illness in the USA. I may be corrected on that however

fritzelly

caveat emptor wrote: »

I think we won't be able to go zerocovid for some time. It'll take time and anger to bring about that kind of change.
The effects of this thing are only really starting to come out.
When people start to realise the extent of the damage they may well demand change.

...
...

22 million cases - a few reports of "long covid"

It's really not even worth the read - anecdotal reports don't cut it, it is not outside the bounds of any other viral infection for some people to have long lasting issues (it's what viruses do)

Wolf359f

Wolf359f wrote: »

I'm sorry, there's absolutely no way NI would block British citizens from entering NI. I don't even think they could legally do it. It's a devolved government, but they don't that that kind of control.

No system is perfect. Our level of disease is currently higher than the UK anyhow. I did say earlier we would have to use diplomacy with regards NI/UK. Possibly a covid free UK/Ireland zone is another alternative. Its not going to be easy. Alternative is alot more grim for next 12/18 months and not sustainable. We still seem to be in emergency/reactionary mode rather than an overall plan.

Plumbthedepths

fritzelly wrote: »

Because that is not our way of life, or how humans have even evolved

Saving lives is not our way of life? What have has been the motive since march?

Strumms

fritzelly wrote: »

Be curious how the flu jab uptake is this year - certainly don't want a double whammy of catching both (coz it looks like CV is going nowhere)
I only got it last year as been a long while since I've had it (30 years or so) and thought I'm due a dose

Going to be a lot of very panicked people this winter who just catch a regular cold/flu and be thinking the end is nigh... for whatever fûckin reason every year for 20 years, like clockwork,when seasons are changing, October into November then April into May or thereabouts I come down with a heavish cold / virus... nearly set your watch by it, I couldn’t and can’t explain it...

Micky 32

caveat emptor wrote: »

Don’t just look at covid-19 fatality rates. Look at people who survive — but don’t entirely recover

]

Nah, i’ll look at my cousin and her husband along with the 10 others i know fully recovered some months now.

You’re a class A misery merchant.

Plumbthedepths

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Thats a conservative number. As far as I'm aware influenza is not a reportable illness in the USA. I may be corrected on that however

650,000 is only official figure I could find.

fritzelly

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Saving lives is not our way of life? What have has been the motive since march?

We don't wear mask and stop interacting with people our whole lives - you made a general point and then made it all about covid in the response

Wolf359f

fritzelly wrote: »

22 million cases - a few reports of "long covid"

It's really not even worth the read - anecdotal reports don't cut it, it is not outside the bounds of any other viral infection for some people to have long lasting issues (it's what viruses do)

It's like the reinfections, 22 million cases and maybe a dozen reinfections. That puts it in the realm of false positives/negatives.
There's certainly long term issues with some cases, but highlighting a few and saying it's quite common is fear mongering.

Plumbthedepths

Micky 32 wrote: »

Nah, i’ll look at my cousin and her husband along with the 10 others i know recovered some months now fully.

You’re a class A misery merchant.

I only know one person who caught the virus. Mid sixties back to work after two weeks and took the time to praise my son for donating a kidney.

Plumbthedepths

fritzelly wrote: »

We don't wear mask and stop interacting with people our whole lives - you made a general point and then made it all about covid in the response

Actually no, I pointed out how we are not willing to protect people from influenza but we will protect people from Covid under punishment of 6 months in prison yet influenza is a recurring illness.

FintanMcluskey

Deleted User wrote: »

No system is perfect. Our level of disease is currently higher than the UK anyhow

I struggle with statements like this when so many people are asymptomatic. 84 out of 87 in a recent outbreak in a food facility.

Unless every country has identical testing procedures positive cases are not accurately quantifiable

caveat emptor

Micky 32 wrote: »

Nah, i’ll look at my cousin and her husband along with the 10 others i know recovered some months now fully.

You’re a class A misery merchant.

You are an idiot if you disregard science and use 10 people who are probably lying to you as your sample size.

Do you think anyone wants to acknowledge they may have permanent damage to their internal organs let alone share that with someone who goes around calling people misery merchants. You should ask people how they actually are if you care rather than assuming they are grand.

I'd definitely share my bad news with you if I had any. I knew a lad had a broken leg on the pitch and said he was grand. He wasn't.

SeaBreezes

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

650,000 is only official figure I could find.

What offical figure is that?
650,000 for what time frame?
For where?

fritzelly

caveat emptor wrote: »

You are an idiot if you disregard science and use 10 people who are probably lying to you as your sample size.

Do you think anyone wants to acknowledge they may have permanent damage to their internal organs let alone share that with someone who goes around calling people misery merchants. You should ask people how they actually are if you care rather than assuming they are grand.

I'd definitely share my bad news with you if I had any. I knew a lad had a broken leg on the pitch and said he was grand. He wasn't.

Anecdotal is not science but call out another poster

Pot...kettle...black