Covid 19 Part XXI-27,908 in ROI (1,777 deaths) 6,647 in NI (559 deaths)(22/08)Read OP

mr_edge_to_you

Doesn’t matter what restrictions or controls they implement, its a pointless exercise if they’re not adhered to or enforced.

ChikiChiki

Maybe if state departments did their jobs properly we wouldn't be where we are.

Govt need to be leaning hard on the likes of the HSA and the shysters within and not be clashing with NPHET.

stephenjmcd

prunudo wrote: »

Okay that makes more sense, I was wondering where they were going with their advice. I suppose we'll see later in the day what is announced. But in my mind for the vast majority of counties any further restrictions aren't needed.

"Nphet has also recommended that only six people should be permitted in a home from three separate houses in a bid to clamp down on house parties and outdoor home gathering should be reduced to 15 people."

But up to government to decide and as per the independent, some in cabinet don't agree with NPHET now.

MickeyLeari

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Maybe if state departments did their jobs properly we wouldn't be where we are.

Govt need to be leaning hard on the likes of the HSA and the shysters within and not be clashing with NPHET.

If you look at the membership of NPHET, many of those people have key roles within the HSE and should be the ones putting the pressure on other Stage bodies on the context of their own roles. If they hit road blocks then it goes up the line.

JTMan

JTMan wrote: »

Irish Independent reports:

- Older people to be asked to restrict movements.
- Outdoor gatherings to be limited to 15 people.
- Work from home to be required for those that can work from home. i.e. offices to re-close unless staff cannot work from home.
- Max 6 people in a home from max 3 households

Very serious NPHET concerns ahead of school reopenings.

Evidence based I see. Load of outbreaks amongst those who gather outside and those who work in offices

wadacrack

There were 21 confirmed cases in hospital yesterday morning, up from 13 at the weekend and eight of these patients were in intensive care.

The trend in patients hospitalised with the virus over three days is the highest rise since mid-June

Doctor Jimbob

Still no mention of the meat factories. Incredible. Just tell the older people to hide away again and implement completely unenforceable guidelines about how many people can visit your house.

They need to tackle the root causes of the new outbreaks or they're going to lose public support fast.

mloc123

marno21 wrote: »

A Tipperary lockdown, if these clusters in Golden and Cahir continue to grow, needs to be thought through carefully. If John from Portroe can't head on his staycation because there's clusters 80km away in food processing plants, it's going to dent confidence in the already troubled tourism industry in this country.

Welcome to Kildare.... My town with a population of just under 20k has had 3 cases since June but we are lumped in with the factory clusters.

Boggles

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Still no mention of the meat factories. Incredible. Just tell the older people to hide away again and implement completely unenforceable guidelines about how many people can visit your house.

They need to tackle the root causes of the new outbreaks or they're going to lose public support fast.

Reading between the lines, I don't think they are overly worried about relatively large amounts of cases in factories.

In some ways they have a point, the virus didn't walk itself into these factories it was picked up by someone in the community.

These large clusters are just a magnification of how the virus is spreading.

But you are correct if the "leaked" guidelines are accurate, they will be pretty useless.

Might as well be asking people to wash their hands faster.

Widdensushi

wadacrack wrote: »

There were 21 confirmed cases in hospital yesterday morning, up from 13 at the weekend and eight of these patients were in intensive care.

The trend in patients hospitalised with the virus over three days is the highest rise since mid-June

It's great, only 18 in hospital yesterday evening, trending back down.

The Unbearables

It doesn't matter what restrictions are put in place as long as we have that selfish cohort (loads on here going by the posts) who think it's some kind of gubbbbbberment/RTE/media conspiracy to control us all and just end up doing what they like.

Van.Bosch

When cases are described as asymptomatic, does that mean they always have no symptoms or just none when tested?

mloc123

The Unbearables wrote: »

It doesn't matter what restrictions are put in place as long as we have that selfish cohort (loads on here going by the posts) who think it's some kind of gubbbbbberment/RTE/media conspiracy to control us all and just end up doing what they like.

You really think the people on here that have a genuine interest are the problem?

I laugh at the press conferences, where they are giving the bad news and trying to scare people into compliance... Because their audience are people that are mostly concerned and adhering to the rules already.

You think many people from the Berlin D2 party etc.. sit at home at 6pm waiting to hear numbers daily?

celt262

JTMan wrote: »

Irish Independent reports:

- Older people to be asked to restrict movements.
- Outdoor gatherings to be limited to 15 people.
- Work from home to be required for those that can work from home. i.e. offices to re-close unless staff cannot work from home.
- Max 6 people in a home from max 3 households

Very serious NPHET concerns ahead of school reopenings.

They would be better off inspecting offices and closing those who have no social distancing in place. There wasn't much point putting out guidance for reopening if they are closing offices who have adhered to it and likely invested lots of money in training and screens etc.

stephenjmcd

The Unbearables wrote: »

It doesn't matter what restrictions are put in place as long as we have that selfish cohort (loads on here going by the posts) who think it's some kind of gubbbbbberment/RTE/media conspiracy to control us all and just end up doing what they like.

And what is the "gubberment" conspiracy?
Do adults even say that word ?

stephenjmcd

celt262 wrote: »

They would be better off inspecting offices and closing those who have no social distancing in place. There wasn't much point putting out guidance for reopening if they are closing offices who have adhered to it and likely invested lots of money in training and screens etc.

The advice always was work from home if possible thats not changed

MerlinSouthDub

Deleted User wrote: »

Evidence based I see. Load of outbreaks amongst those who gather outside and those who work in offices

I do feel sorry for the cabinet - it looks bad when you reject the “expert” advice but this advice (as reported) looks like complete junk and should just be binned

celt262

stephenjmcd wrote: »

The advice always was work from home if possible thats not changed

Yeah but they are now saying offices should close not everyone can work from home.

Edit: read it wrong

stephenjmcd

celt262 wrote: »

Yeah but they are now saying offices should close not everyone can work from home.

Edit: read it wrong

Sorry saw your edit there, yeah no mention of offices closing, same advice to work from home if possible as theres always been

Benimar

stephenjmcd wrote: »

As expected didn't take long for cracks to show.

"Cabinet ministers are becoming increasingly frustrated with Nphet advice on the pandemic as they believe it is out of kilter with advice being put forward by public-health experts in other EU countries. Increasing frustration over Covid-19 restrictions is expected to play out when the Cabinet meets today. Fine Gael ministers are expected to push for less restrictive measures despite the increase in new cases.

A Cabinet source said there were concerns at the highest ranks of Cabinet that Nphet had "departed from the European mainstream in the severity of their advice" as they are "under pressure from academic commentators as opposed to solid science".

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/older-people-will-be-told-to-limit-time-outdoors-and-family-gatherings-to-be-reduced-to-six-to-try-to-stall-resurgence-of-covid-19-39458325.html

Is there anyone who doesn't think this is Leo?:pac:

Turtwig

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Evidence based I see. Load of outbreaks amongst those who gather outside and those who work in offices

Perhaps because both of these have been limited and remain limited there haven't been loads of outbreaks in them? Keeping people out of offices reduces public travel requirements, risk from car pooling. Indoor car parks. Etc

A full audit does need to take place of the factories that had outbreaks. I do find it strange there is no mention of them. That said, some of them could be fully compliant workplace wise and still have significant outbreaks.

The recommendation for medically vulnerable is just pragmatic. If they get the virus they're more likely to require more health care resources. At a time when the priority is resumption of school and other health care services with a growing risk of exposure to vulnerable groups you don't want that.

Very disappointed that as yet little guidance has issued regarding indoor spaces and ventilation.

the corpo

So the non-scientific members of cabinet are worried that the scientists aren't being sciencey enough?

rob316

Honestly a bunch of experts are concerned that as we reopened cases increased. What did they expect to happen?

the corpo

the corpo wrote: »

So the non-scientific members of cabinet are worried that the scientists aren't being sciencey enough?

They are worried that the scientists here are taking the science in a different, experimental level rather than the pragmatic, European level. Practicality and is always a key decision point on the implementation of any system, based on the science, but applied appropriately. Its why Engineers make better project managers

Leftwaffe

What is the ultimate objective is what I want to know? Obviously as we opened up we were going to get a certain amount of cases. Are we trying to keep it below a certain number? What do the gov and NPHET want to achieve?

Hego Damask

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-53816511

Mission accomplished, the CCP have infected the world and ruined the worlds economy while profiting nicely from it , PARTY TIME!!!

Utter scum, there need to be consequences for that f*cking ****hole of a country.

Redordeadqwwer

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

What is the ultimate objective is what I want to know? Obviously as we opened up we were going to get a certain amount of cases. Are we trying to keep it below a certain number? What do the gov and NPHET want to achieve?

Nobody really knows anymore.

Seems like they want schools to open. But the plan is really terrible.
They are just leaving it to each school to do what they want.

While there are big clusters in meat factories, we don't seem to be doing too much to prevent them. Instead they are finger wagging about house parties.

Hego Damask

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

What is the ultimate objective is what I want to know? Obviously as we opened up we were going to get a certain amount of cases. Are we trying to keep it below a certain number? What do the gov and NPHET want to achieve?

They want to keep the public terrified and locked in their homes, until deaths from suicides, untreated cancer etc are greater than covid - not to mention that economy is totally destroyed ....

ThunbergsAreGo

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

What is the ultimate objective is what I want to know? Obviously as we opened up we were going to get a certain amount of cases. Are we trying to keep it below a certain number? What do the gov and NPHET want to achieve?

100%

I understand its an impossible task, but I would like some insight into what the strategy is

screamer

Hego Damask wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-53816511

Mission accomplished, the CCP have infected the world and ruined the worlds economy while profiting nicely from it , PARTY TIME!!!

Utter scum, there need to be consequences for that f*cking ****hole of a country.

Wu’s sorry now? Looks like the rest of us not China anyways

hmmm

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

What is the ultimate objective is what I want to know? Obviously as we opened up we were going to get a certain amount of cases. Are we trying to keep it below a certain number? What do the gov and NPHET want to achieve?

A relatively stable number of cases.

I'm sure their concern is that they are seeing rising numbers of cases pop up all over the country, and no clear link to where they came from - it's all a bit March 2020.

The problem for NPHET I think is that their advice is sound (e.g. everyone needs to physically distance), but the public aren't getting the message. You physically should be standing 2 metres away from people, even if it is your golf buddy or nan or work colleague.

screamer

Hego Damask wrote: »

They want to keep the public terrified and locked in their homes, until deaths from suicides, untreated cancer etc are greater than covid - not to mention that economy is totally destroyed ....

Yes yes of course they want us to die.... that’s why they’ve been doing everything they can to prevent us catching covid19.

Engage the brain, if they wanted us to die en
masse they’d just do a Bolsonaro or Trump on it and let covid19 take us out....

Beanybabog

They’re pretty wishy washy recommendations but to be fair there’s very little to be done right now- they’re not going to shut food factories (or indeed direct provision centres), if they shut food pubs and restaurants they’d be punishing small business for issues they didn’t cause or contribute to, if they restrict travel locally or county by county our hospitality industry can say goodbye to any staycations... and we’ve no money to pay for more restrictions and destroy more businesses..:: really those recommendations amount to saying the virus is spreading in the community, we must do better to distance ourselves from others.

Completely anecdotal, but I’ve heard of a few people calling GPs recently mainly for kids and the tests took ages or weren’t referred at all (but told to isolate!). I know someone in a different country whose child was send home from creche with the runs, tested within hours, results the next day and back to creche. Restrictions are pointless unless our testing improves

AdamD

Boggles wrote: »

Reading between the lines, I don't think they are overly worried about relatively large amounts of cases in factories.

In some ways they have a point, the virus didn't walk itself into these factories it was picked up by someone in the community.

These large clusters are just a magnification of how the virus is spreading.

But you are correct if the "leaked" guidelines are accurate, they will be pretty useless.

Might as well be asking people to wash their hands faster.

It may make some sense but to the public this will look like they're ignoring the actual problem and continuing to finger wag.

Anyways, 6 people in a household is completely unenforcable, these look like recommendations to be seen to be doing something.

hmmm

hmmm wrote: »

A relatively stable number of cases.

I'm sure their concern is that they are seeing rising numbers of cases pop up all over the country, and no clear link to where they came from - it's all a bit March 2020.

The problem for NPHET I think is that their advice is sound (e.g. everyone needs to physically distance), but the public aren't getting the message. You physically should be standing 2 metres away from people, even if it is your golf buddy or nan or work colleague.

2M is a big distance.

If it is mandatory, we might as well stop public transport, flights, schools, taxi's, pubs, restaurants and well, just about everything.

Simply not possible to keep people 2M apart.

Widdensushi

Close the borders and open everything, the strain that is here at the moment is obviously weaker, the meat factories are safe now as most have immunity, we should aim for the same for the schools etc,get ahead of the vaccine and the uncertainty that will come with it.

What Username Guidelines

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

What is the ultimate objective is what I want to know? Obviously as we opened up we were going to get a certain amount of cases. Are we trying to keep it below a certain number? What do the gov and NPHET want to achieve?

The goal is to “suppress the disease” by any means possible. It seems like they’re only thinking about 4-5 days ahead. Perhaps clinging all hope on a vaccine. Even if it does come and comes miraculously early, it’s still a long way off to be muddling through half assed lockdowns based on arbitrary numbers. We don’t see much of the “flatten the curve” diagram we used to see at every briefing.

The issue in my opinion is Donnelly inheriting phrases like stay the course and not really knowing what to do. Michael Martin is as spineless as they come. NPHET advise and government do what they’re advised. No one really wants to “own” this, and without someone responsible, whether they make good or bad decisions, we’ll land somewhere in the middle, a limbo land with a very tired and divided public.

At the moment I’d almost accept a full March style lockdown if someone could hop on a podium and give us a good reason to. Instead it’s my mam has to stop going to the shops for her paper because meat plants.

Infuriating.

smellyoldboot

Reading between the lines, none of the measures suggested amount to actions that can be enforced by law. Basically it is a request for certain cohorts of society to stop acting like selfish assholes. Which ultimately will be utterly futile. A selfish assholes listens to only themselves and cares only about the same.

ThunbergsAreGo

hmmm wrote: »

A relatively stable number of cases.

I'm sure their concern is that they are seeing rising numbers of cases pop up all over the country, and no clear link to where they came from - it's all a bit March 2020.

The problem for NPHET think is that their advice is sound (e.g. everyone needs to physically distance), but the public aren't getting the message. You physically should be standing 2 metres away from people, even if it is your golf buddy or nan or work colleague.

Its actually not really like March 2020. We have a much larger testing capacity and are catching way more asymptomatic cases than before. We are catching cases that would never have been tested in March.

Everything is actually working as expected - we are catching and containing cases rather well. A rise was always going to happen with opening back up, and worsening weather.

PowerToWait

Hego Damask wrote: »

They want to keep the public terrified and locked in their homes, until deaths from suicides, untreated cancer etc are greater than covid - not to mention that economy is totally destroyed ....

It’s very simple and has been explained many times but here goes;

If the virus gets out of control, all the deaths you mention will happen, but by a factor of 2 or 3 or who knows, AS WELL AS the deaths due to C19.

Do you understand this simple reality or do you require further illumination?

harr

Are members of NPHET group made up of HSE and HSA and certain scientist and doctors .. if so the HSA and HSE aren’t going to want to criticise the handling of meat factories.. little or no criticism from government of the handling of factories yet they are well able to freak out over house parties and directing blame away from what caused the current lockdown in the midlands.
Even the new leaked recommendations are focussing on older people again. The same older people who have been doing everything by the book since original lockdown..
To many brown envelopes floating around this country and to many officials Turing a blind eye to serious breaches of protocol in factories.

Is there a press conference today?

owlbethere

JTMan wrote: »

Irish Independent reports:

- Older people to be asked to restrict movements.
- Outdoor gatherings to be limited to 15 people.
- Work from home to be required for those that can work from home. i.e. offices to re-close unless staff cannot work from home.
- Max 6 people in a home from max 3 households

Very serious NPHET concerns ahead of school reopenings.

The majority of the rising cases is linked to the work and factory cases. What good will it do asking older people to restrict their movements? I presume a lot of older people are now pension age and not working within a cluster.
I know other clusters are linked to parties. I presume these older people are not rocking it up to party with younger people.

How can some of these older people genuinely restrict movements and isolate themselves from the world when we also have a housing crisis where many adults are living at home? Are the adult offspring supposed to isolate themselves and restrict movements.

Outdoor gatherings to be restricted to 15 people. That's going to be disappointing for sports people as an example and maybe even weddings etc. How will this be enforced though for private gatherings in back yards etc?

Work from home if you can - that will remain to be a good one all around.

Max 6 people in a home from max 3 households - that's some more good advice. It will probably fly over many peoples head. Again, how will that be enforced? The people who's following the guidelines to maintain health, will follow this. The people who's losing interest in the guidelines and their civil duty, won't. Also is that 6 people in a home from max 3 households - is that per day or per week?

Hego Damask

PowerToWait wrote: »

It’s very simple and has been explained many times but here goes;

If the virus gets out of control, all the deaths you mention will happen, but by a factor of 2 or 3 or who knows, AS WELL AS the deaths due to C19.

Do you understand this simple reality or do you require further illumination?

Bull****

Sweet.Science

We should do a UK on it . Stop testing in these meat plants etc . Only test if someone has symptoms . This has gone beyond stupid now. WHat happened to flattening the curve , we have to learn to live with it etc

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

2M is a big distance.

If it is mandatory, we might as well stop public transport, flights, schools, taxi's, pubs, restaurants and well, just about everything.

Simply not possible to keep people 2M apart.

That's why the advice is 2m where possible. If we do it most of the time, the impact of where we cant will not have a huge impact. And 2m is not a huge distance

Kh1993

It’s probably been refused before and for privacy reasons etc, but it would be a good idea if the minutes of NPHETs latest meeting were published.

It’d be interesting to see the rationale behind the latest restrictions, because to the average person here they don’t make sense. We all know they won’t be widely observed either. As someone mentioned, the people who watch the pressers, they’re not the people having house parties and massive gatherings. They’re already worried enough.

stephenjmcd

owlbethere wrote: »

Outdoor gatherings to be restricted to 15 people. That's going to be disappointing for sports people as an example

Independent article says its outdoor gatherings at home, i.e your back garden, again house parties.

Not outdoor sports gatherings

billybonkers

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Is there a press conference today?

Expected today at the earliest they said

Hego Damask

https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-08-18/spain-reports-37000-new-coronavirus-infections-in-the-last-week.html

37,000 cases in one week, almost at March/April levels, death rate far far less ....


life is going on.