FG to still just do nothing for the next 5 years - part 2

smurgen

Oymyakon wrote: »

I don’t understand how an TD who’s party have been in government for 10 years can defend their housing policy. I understand there’s no simple solutions so genuine question, why has the housing situation gotten worse since FG have been in power and how can they defend their position?

The article is so full of incorrect information I'm shocked it made it to publication. It must be in the opinion piece. The editorial of the indo must be mortified having to post this sort of tripe.

Bishop of hope

Oymyakon wrote: »

I don’t understand how an TD who’s party have been in government for 10 years can defend their housing policy. I understand there’s no simple solutions so genuine question, why has the housing situation gotten worse since FG have been in power and how can they defend their position?

Think you need to look back at the 10 years previous to FG for the answer to that.

McMurphy

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Think you need to look back at the 10 years previous to FG for the answer to that.

Yeah bish, putting them lads back in the driving seat of the countries government would be like puttin Delaney back in charge of the IFA.

Wait a minute......

Bishop of hope

McMurphy wrote: »

Yeah bish, putting them lads back in the driving seat of the countries government would be like puttin Delaney back in charge of the IFA.

Wait a minute......

Without mentioning any names, what party would have gotten in without them?

smurgen

The reality is FG are ideologically opposed to cost effective social housing. The status quo maintains house prices which suits vested interests. They would love to admit they don't give a ****e about affordable housing but they can't. For the purposes of optics they need to be seen to be in favor while effectively doing nothing.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And FG have managed it to record breaking numbers. They have all the answers but can't seem to implement them. How long do they require to do it...another 10 years in Government...20?

Would help if SF councillors stop opposing every housing project under the sun.
Nothing I have heard from that corner inspires confidence, certainly not the much-vaunted 100,000 cheap houses for €47,000 each, as per their manifesto.

markodaly

smurgen wrote: »

The article is so full of incorrect information I'm shocked it made it to publication. It must be in the opinion piece. The editorial of the indo must be mortified having to post this sort of tripe.

What exactly was factually incorrect?

Please explain.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Would help if SF councillors stop opposing every housing project under the sun.
Nothing I have heard from that corner inspires confidence, certainly not the much-vaunted 100,000 cheap houses for €47,000 each, as per their manifesto.

You were asked to stand over/explain FG policy and you deflect to the Shinners.

Bishop of hope

smurgen wrote: »

The reality is FG are ideologically suited to cost effective social housing. The status quo maintains house prices which suits vested interests. They would love to admit they don't give a ****e about affordable housing but they can't. For the purposes of optics they need to be seen to be in favor while effectively doing nothing.

I'd agree they are less idealogically suited to it than FF.
Maybe SF too if you like to mention the alternatives.
But the centralisation of the current housing crisis is in the capital.
There is no cheap fix in Dublin lads.
Perhaps if SF q quits objecting to virtually every commercial development things might speed up for genuine house buyers.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You were asked to stand over/explain FG policy and you deflect to the Shinners.

Ah, but it would help, as the key is in the answer.
The government do not control all LA's.

smurgen

markodaly wrote: »

What exactly was factually incorrect?

Please explain.

The entire premise of the article. FG were in power yet are disassociating themselves almost as observers.

"A dysfunctional housing model brought this country to its knees and sacrificed a decade in the building of much-needed homes and infrastructure".

Then the line “Parties of the left are blocking innovation in the housing market” while FG continue to try to paint councillors on the left as villains and now are locking them out of democratic participation using LDA legislation and Section 28 Ministerial guidelines. Mental propaganda.

He should go back to baking scones and giving to odd meaningless platitude about mental health.

markodaly

smurgen wrote: »

The entire premise of the article. FG were in power yet are disassociating themselves almost as observers.

But what exactly what was said, is incorrect. It appears you didn't even read the whole article, apart from the free preview.

"A dysfunctional housing model brought this country to its knees and sacrificed a decade in the building of much-needed homes and infrastructure".

This is correct, it's self-evident as we had a property crash which toppled our banks.

Then the line “Parties of the left are blocking innovation in the housing market”

Also correct. They are the most vocal and most ready to vote against developments. This is a fact.

while FG continue to try to paint councillors on the left as villains and now are locking them out of democratic participation using LDA legislation and Section 28 Ministerial guidelines. Mental propaganda.

The LDA is actually a very good thing for affordable housing in this country and it has cross-party support. Again, nothing factually wrong in the article about that.

What we have seen over the last ten years, especially in DCC were councils dominated by left-wing parties flat our refuse to develop and build affordable housing for the people. We don't need another 10 years of the same things.

Therefore, the central government are taking a more active role
To flesh out the point...
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/councillors-to-be-bypassed-in-land-sale-to-state-housing-agency-1.4476557

The proposed legislation also increases the level for the provision of affordable homes by the new agency from 30 per cent to 50 per cent.

A good thing no?

But yes, we should really hand all power back to the councillors who love nothing but to object to developments.

He should go back to baking scones and giving to odd meaningless platitude about mental health.

Ah, so we get to the nub of it really, personal digs and insults against RB while you cannot refute one factual thing he said.

Brendan Bendar

markodaly wrote: »

But what exactly what was said, is incorrect. It appears you didn't even read the whole article, apart from the free preview.



This is correct, it's self-evident as we had a property crash which toppled our banks.



Also correct. They are the most vocal and most ready to vote against developments. This is a fact.




The LDA is actually a very good thing for affordable housing in this country and it has cross-party support. Again, nothing factually wrong in the article about that.

What we have seen over the last ten years, especially in DCC were councils dominated by left-wing parties flat our refuse to develop and build affordable housing for the people. We don't need another 10 years of the same things.

Therefore, the central government are taking a more active role
To flesh out the point...
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/councillors-to-be-bypassed-in-land-sale-to-state-housing-agency-1.4476557

A good thing no?

But yes, we should really hand all power back to the councillors who love nothing but to object to developments.



Ah, so we get to the nub of it really, personal digs and insults against RB while you cannot refute one factual thing he said.

Good call M

Bout time somebody scraped the unctuous veneer off that charlatan O’Broin.

FrancieBrady

smurgen wrote: »

The entire premise of the article. FG were in power yet are disassociating themselves almost as observers.

"A dysfunctional housing model brought this country to its knees and sacrificed a decade in the building of much-needed homes and infrastructure".

Then the line “Parties of the left are blocking innovation in the housing market” while FG continue to try to paint councillors on the left as villains and now are locking them out of democratic participation using LDA legislation and Section 28 Ministerial guidelines. Mental propaganda.

He should go back to baking scones and giving to odd meaningless platitude about mental health.

That is exactly ALL that RB tried to do on the radio debate...same as here...point the finger and refuse any responsibility.

smurgen

markodaly wrote: »

But what exactly what was said, is incorrect. It appears you didn't even read the whole article, apart from the free preview.



This is correct, it's self-evident as we had a property crash which toppled our banks.



Also correct. They are the most vocal and most ready to vote against developments. This is a fact.




The LDA is actually a very good thing for affordable housing in this country and it has cross-party support. Again, nothing factually wrong in the article about that.

What we have seen over the last ten years, especially in DCC were councils dominated by left-wing parties flat our refuse to develop and build affordable housing for the people. We don't need another 10 years of the same things.

Therefore, the central government are taking a more active role
To flesh out the point...
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/councillors-to-be-bypassed-in-land-sale-to-state-housing-agency-1.4476557

A good thing no?

But yes, we should really hand all power back to the councillors who love nothing but to object to developments.



Ah, so we get to the nub of it really, personal digs and insults against RB while you cannot refute one factual thing he said.

The proposed solutions are at an exorbitant expense to the tax payer. This painting of objectors for the sake of it is an aim for vilify. If the proposed housing is ridiculous it needs to be objected too. Gifting public land and paying half a million eur for houses to developers for housing is simply cronyism. And the LDA? What's the actual definition of an affordable home outlined here? When RB says private and public innovation what does he actually mean? I can't see any proposals except those that transfer more and more tax payer funds to private developers.

blanch152

smurgen wrote: »

The entire premise of the article. FG were in power yet are disassociating themselves almost as observers.

"A dysfunctional housing model brought this country to its knees and sacrificed a decade in the building of much-needed homes and infrastructure".

Then the line “Parties of the left are blocking innovation in the housing market” while FG continue to try to paint councillors on the left as villains and now are locking them out of democratic participation using LDA legislation and Section 28 Ministerial guidelines. Mental propaganda.

He should go back to baking scones and giving to odd meaningless platitude about mental health.

There is nothing untrue about parties of the left blocking social housing. That is what they are doing at local level.

The left is clinging to a capitalist ideal of a three-bed semi-d house with a garden with room for a trampoline in the suburbs for everyone. They need to get real.

Oymyakon

blanch152 wrote: »

The left is clinging to a capitalist ideal of a three-bed semi-d house with a garden with room for a trampoline in the suburbs for everyone. They need to get real.

It’s a very post war American dream idea. Families are smaller now, more people are having no kids so I think we need to be more realistic that 1-2 bedroom apartments in multi storey complexes in urban areas
is the long term solution.

blanch152

Oymyakon wrote: »

It’s a very post war American dream idea. Families are smaller now, more people are having no kids so I think we need to be more realistic that 1-2 bedroom apartments in multi storey complexes in urban areas
is the long term solution.

They are constantly opposed by the parties of the left.

RandomViewer

Oymyakon wrote: »

It’s a very post war American dream idea. Families are smaller now, more people are having no kids so I think we need to be more realistic that 1-2 bedroom apartments in multi storey complexes in urban areas
is the long term solution.

Ballymun nua?

Idbatterim

Oymyakon wrote: »

I don’t understand how an TD who’s party have been in government for 10 years can defend their housing policy. I understand there’s no simple solutions so genuine question, why has the housing situation gotten worse since FG have been in power and how can they defend their position?

Watch realestate4ransom on YouTube if interested in why governments love rip off property prices.

smurgen

The acting powerless and spinning massive yarns to deflect attention would remind ya of their covid fumbling of Covid.They used the aul stock excuses such as rent controls being unconstitutional and the good old Seamus Woulfe AG backed them. He himself a landlord at the time of course.

James Brown

smurgen wrote: »

Richard Bruton appearing angry again on twitter this morning. After he got his ass handed to him by Eoin Ó Broin on air last week in a debate he's taken to the usual FG refuge of Indo columns. Their very own safe space.

https://twitter.com/RichardbrutonTD/status/1358352285957582848?s=19

What a complete load of bollo from Bruton. The only public private policy is the tax payer paying over the odds for 25 year leases or giving up land for a song so they can build apartments to rent back to the council. ****ing shambles.
They are private business looking to make profit. Nothing wrong in that but how does that marry into the housing crises only to make it more costly and therefore worse. Hes either a gombeen or on the take.

markodaly

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Good call M

Bout time somebody scraped the unctuous veneer off that charlatan O’Broin.

Well he did write a book on the topic.

But it is very disingenuous of O'Brion to be jumping up and down about the LDA.
He himself in his book bangs on about the need for the central state to take a more active role in developing state assets and land while acquiring new lands to develop.

The LDA is this by proxy.

He is only mad, because he isn't in the top job pushing this out, so cant take the credit for it. So he goes on about democratic accountability. We have had democratic accountability for the past decade.... how has that worked out?
O'Brion is known for objecting to developments as well.

markodaly

smurgen wrote: »

The proposed solutions are at an exorbitant expense to the tax payer.

Please explain? Do you mean the taxpayer shouldn't pay for affordable housing?

This painting of objectors for the sake of it is an aim for vilify. If the proposed housing is ridiculous it needs to be objected too.

And this is why we have a housing crisis!!

Gifting public land and paying half a million euro for houses to developers for housing is simply cronyism.

What has this got to do with the RB article?

And the LDA? What's the actual definition of an affordable home outlined here?

Perhaps read the legislation, again though what has this got to do with the RB article?

When RB says private and public innovation what does he actually mean? I can't see any proposals except those that transfer more and more tax payer funds to private developers.

If you read the article in full,it would be explained to you, but clearly, you didn't, apart from the free preview.

So, again nothing RB wrote was actually incorrect from a factual point of view.
One is free to disagree with this opinion, but people cannot choose their own facts.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Liam Adams was a member of SF.

FG have no problem inviting these people to speak at the most prestigious events = fact.

The first link..

DUP MP, Jeffrey Donaldson, will address the Fine Gael National Conference later on North-South relations after Brexit.

Scandalous!

Second link...

A Fine Gael politician is to make history as the first Irish Government Minister to address a DUP conference.

More Scandal.

Do you think the Irish government should just ignore the DUP and their voters Francie? Perhaps we can get them to wear a red and blue star, so people can ignore them.

For all the talk of a border poll, you seem to ignore the Unionist elephant in the room.

markodaly

James Brown wrote: »

Hes either a gombeen or on the take.

Question, is any FG TD for you NOT on the take?

smurgen

markodaly wrote: »

Question, is any FG TD for you NOT on the take?

Madigan. No one would pay for that lack of brain power. Colm Burke aswell. He couldn't tie his shoe laces.

McMurphy

markodaly wrote: »

The
Do you think the Irish government should just ignore the DUP and their voters Francie? Perhaps we can get them to wear a red and blue star, so people can ignore them.

For all the talk of a border poll, you seem to ignore the Unionist elephant in the room.

Fine Gael, aren't "the Irish government" mark, no matter how many of their zealots believe they are, the fact is they're not.

However, it's double standards that you think they can't really ignore the DUPers, yet are fine with how they had absolutely zero issues with "ignoring Sinn Fein and their voters" mark, in fact they were the only party who point blank wanted them excluded from govt, including a national unity one.

Even Donaldson was on record of saying they were a bunch of hypocrites for insisting they - the DUPers had to sit down and enter a coalition from one side of their mouths, but state they refuse to enter coalition with SF from the other side of their mouths.

I wouldn't agree with much Donaldson says, but he was on the money with that one.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

The first link..



Scandalous!

Second link...



More Scandal.

Do you think the Irish government should just ignore the DUP and their voters Francie? Perhaps we can get them to wear a red and blue star, so people can ignore them.

For all the talk of a border poll, you seem to ignore the Unionist elephant in the room.

Links mark, which the poster was denying existed.

Sorry, to provide back up, but there you go.

markodaly

McMurphy wrote: »

Fine Gael, aren't "the Irish government" mark, no matter how many of their zealots believe they are, the fact is they're not.
.

Then you need to read the post-Francie posted.

The timelines were from a time when FG was in a minority government and in government with Labour, all of 9 years ago... yes it's an old article and god knows why we are discussing the DUP in a thread about FG...

...well I know why, you do too... but its part of the course these days isn't it.