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FG to still just do nothing for the next 5 years - part 2

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    #1172
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    smurgen wrote: »
    FG are not pressing harris to release his information on the Dublin and Monaghan bombings.Do FG care at all what happens to their fellow country man or are they happen to subvert justice at all costs?

    Whatever information Harris has on the Dublin and Monaghan bombings was held in his official capacity in the PSNI. He is bound for confidentiality reasons not to release that information.

    If he was to release that information, he would not be suitable for the job as Garda Commissioner because he could not be relied on to mantain confidentiality. However, if the Gardai obtain the same information through their own resources, then he would be free to act on it.


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    #1173
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Whatever information Harris has on the Dublin and Monaghan bombings was held in his official capacity in the PSNI. He is bound for confidentiality reasons not to release that information.

    If he was to release that information, he would not be suitable for the job as Garda Commissioner because he could not be relied on to mantain confidentiality. However, if the Gardai obtain the same information through their own resources, then he would be free to act on it.

    If that is the case that should have immediately ruled him out of the consideration if there is any sense of justice for the victims of that event held by the power swap parties.
    In fact it makes it an obscene appointment, a man compromised.


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    #1174
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Completely twisting my words, not for the first time.

    Most of the insinuations you see are in your head.

    A poster gave info about himself and you replied 'that you knew all about him'.

    Maybe it wasn't intended to be sinister but it certainly came across that way to more than me.


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    #1175
    Nobotty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Nobotty


    Bowie wrote: »
    We get this a lot when FG want something forgotten about. Same answer, we can multitask. Some care some don't and thats life. No need to tell people they shouldn't care because its not the number1 story.

    Agreed. If people didn't drag it into every discussion that isn't going well for them we might.

    Yes but constantly repeating versions of the same stuff and they doing the same,to the same 4 or 5 people (the exact same:eek:) does it change their minds or yours? No
    Its like sending fire engines to the sun
    An endless pointless rigmarole and there's 100s of pages going back years
    Its an obsession
    I usually just scroll down past it unless there's something interesting like the calc grades glitch


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    #1176
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    A poster gave info about himself and you replied 'that you knew all about him'.

    Maybe it wasn't intended to be sinister but it certainly came across that way to more than me.

    He's having trouble walking that one back. It was weird as f*ck and he'd blow a gasket if the shoe was on the other foot.


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    #1177
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Whatever information Harris has on the Dublin and Monaghan bombings was held in his official capacity in the PSNI. He is bound for confidentiality reasons not to release that information.

    If he was to release that information, he would not be suitable for the job as Garda Commissioner because he could not be relied on to mantain confidentiality. However, if the Gardai obtain the same information through their own resources, then he would be free to act on it.

    Jesus - when you put it like that, it just displays the unbelievable stupidity surrounding the decision to place him in the position.

    You just summed up what a conflict of interest he is.


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    #1178
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    McMurphy wrote: »
    Jesus - when you put it like that, it just displays the unbelievable stupidity surrounding the decision to place him in the position.

    You just summed up what a conflict of interest he is.

    Obscene and bizarre that his interviewers sat there knowing this and still gave him the job.

    Did the victims of Dublin/Monaghan/Belturbet even occur to them?


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    #1179
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    McMurphy wrote: »
    Jesus - when you put it like that, it just displays the unbelievable stupidity surrounding the decision to place him in the position.

    You just summed up what a conflict of interest he is.

    Where is the conflict of interest?


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    #1180
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Where is the conflict of interest?

    Quite simple and obvious, if information comes forward that he knows to be false, he will have to act on it.

    It's a dozzie of staggering proportions if you are correct. Can you back up what you said?


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    #1181
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Quite simple and obvious, if information comes forward that he knows to be false, he will have to act on it.

    It's a dozzie of staggering proportions if you are correct. Can you back up what you said?

    What do you mean by that? Give a concrete example, rather than the usual bluster.


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    #1182
    Nobotty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Nobotty


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Quite simple and obvious, if information comes forward that he knows to be false, he will have to act on it.

    It's a dozzie of staggering proportions if you are correct. Can you back up what you said?

    There is a penalty for breaching the UK official secrets act and he would be extradited
    So no prizes for guessing what the AG advice would be on that one
    So you're out of luck there pushing for any reveal
    As I said last night,I did raise an eyebrow when he was chosen ignoring the rest of the options across the whole wide world
    He is CEO of our police
    Ireland Inc should have looked further afield


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    #1183
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    What do you mean by that? Give a concrete example, rather than the usual bluster.

    What?

    It is the simplest thing n the world to imagine.

    A suspect is unearthed and taken in. Harris knows from his previous job, the person had nothing to do with it.


    What does he do? Does he allow the suspect to be charged/detained? Or does he use his knowledge?

    It's a clear conflict.

    Unless you are suggesting that he can act without revealing why he acted...which is a whole other **** show and would allow him to do what he liked.

    Bizarre situation really. Did you find any back up for your claim btw?


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    #1184
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Where is the conflict of interest?

    You just outlined it in your post I quoted, how could a Garda commissioner have any part in any potential inquiry into the bombing of Dublin, Monaghan or in Cavan if he or she had information that he or she couldn't divulge because they are (your words) "bound by confidentiality reasons".

    How could Harris be expected to partake with any shred of integrity of impartiality?

    As per Francie if information that DH knew to be untrue was presented, Drew would have to sit on his own hands and say nothing because he was obliged to?


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    #1185
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    McMurphy wrote: »
    You just outlined it in your post I quoted, how could a Garda commissioner have any part in any potential inquiry into the bombing of Dublin, Monaghan or in Cavan if he or she had information that he or she couldn't divulge because they are (your words) "bound by confidentiality reasons".

    How could Harris be expected to partake with any shred of integrity of impartiality?

    As per Francie if information that DH knew to be untrue was presented, Drew would have to sit on his own hands and say nothing because he was obliged to?

    He is running the force, he doesn't have to be involved in any potential inquiry into the bombings. He also doesn't need to know, or won't know about what's going on in that case, unless there are significant developments.

    This is the bit you don't get. Those bombings are important but they are what percentage of the job of Garda Commissioner? Say a memo comes across his desk once in five years on the job, takes an hour to read it, another hour to write a response. That is generous, given that there is little new investigations happening on it or likely to happen. Casefile is open, along with thousands of others.

    He works about 50 hours a week, 50 weeks a year, so 2,500 hours a year, 12,500 hours across five years. So, it equates to 0.016% of the job.

    Now, what are the chances that the memo that crosses his desk contains a piece of information that he knows is false. Maybe one in twenty let's say? That is generous, but let's go with it. So that means that there is a 0.0008% of a conflict of interest.

    It is not a problem, except in the mind of conspiracy theorists.


    Edit: And all of that is based on the premise that the PSNI do know exactly what happened, a premise that is not proven.


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    #1186
    Nobotty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Nobotty


    Harris would have to recuse himself from any Dublin bomb inquiry
    No question
    If someone was charged ditto
    Regardless of what he was aware of or not


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    #1187
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    He is running the force, he doesn't have to be involved in any potential inquiry into the bombings. He also doesn't need to know, or won't know about what's going on in that case, unless there are significant developments.

    This is the bit you don't get. Those bombings are important but they are what percentage of the job of Garda Commissioner? Say a memo comes across his desk once in five years on the job, takes an hour to read it, another hour to write a response. That is generous, given that there is little new investigations happening on it or likely to happen. Casefile is open, along with thousands of others.

    He works about 50 hours a week, 50 weeks a year, so 2,500 hours a year, 12,500 hours across five years. So, it equates to 0.016% of the job.

    Now, what are the chances that the memo that crosses his desk contains a piece of information that he knows is false. Maybe one in twenty let's say? That is generous, but let's go with it. So that means that there is a 0.0008% of a conflict of interest.

    It is not a problem, except in the mind of conspiracy theorists.


    Edit: And all of that is based on the premise that the PSNI do know exactly what happened, a premise that is not proven.

    Dublin/Monaghan and Belturbet is just one case. There are a myriad of other ones. He has involved himself in one high profile case personally where the same situation could arise. The Quinn case.


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    #1188
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Nobotty wrote: »
    Harris would have to recuse himself from any Dublin bomb inquiry
    No question
    If someone was charged ditto
    Regardless of what he was aware of or not

    Those are very big ifs and they are based on the biggest if of all - that he has knowledge of who the PSNI think committed the crime. He may know what's in the files, he may not. The decision not to release the files may not have required him to familiarise himself with the content, or he may have just approved a recommendation from someone who did the investigation of the content. For example:

    Memo to Harris: These files contain information that may cause controversy if released as the information in them is not soundly based and likely to be inaccurate. We recommend that you refuse release.

    Harris: Agreed.

    Bang goes the conspiracy theory.

    However, every Garda Commissioner, every politician, every CEO, everyone in any senior position has similar potential conflicts of interest.

    It is only current substantive ones that have the potential to impede the normal work that prevent an appointment. The Dublin bombings are not current crimes, they have no impact on the current day-to-day running of the force, very easy to shunt them off to a deputy with zero impact on the job. So, while there are potential conflicts of interest, they are not serious enough or substantive enough to prevent his appointment.

    It is all a ruse from the Shinners to hide their distaste at a Protestant unionist holding a prominent role in Ireland.


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    #1189
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Dublin/Monaghan and Belturbet is just one case. There are a myriad of other ones. He has involved himself in one high profile case personally where the same situation could arise. The Quinn case.

    An interesting point you make. You are now suggesting that people with knowledge of information in relation to the Quinn case should not be eligible for senior positions in Ireland.

    Pretty much rules out the entire Sinn Fein parliamentary party, doesn't it?

    Oh, with the possible exceptions of Violet and Reada.


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    #1190
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    An interesting point you make. You are now suggesting that people with knowledge of information in relation to the Quinn case should not be eligible for senior positions in Ireland.

    Pretty much rules out the entire Sinn Fein parliamentary party, doesn't it?

    Oh, with the possible exceptions of Violet and Reada.

    SF are not sworn to secrecy by a foreign power blanch.


    Anyone can withold info, not everybody is legally mandated to do it.

    That you cannot see the problem here is either because you are doing your stubborn 'everything FG approve is right' or you are too naive.


  • Options
    #1191
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    SF are not sworn to secrecy by a foreign power blanch.


    Anyone can withold info, not everybody is legally mandated to do it.

    That you cannot see the problem here is either because you are doing your stubborn 'everything FG approve is right' or you are too naive.

    As already demonstrated, I crunched the numbers for you. Noticeably, nobody challenged me on those.


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    #1192
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    As already demonstrated, I crunched the numbers for you. Noticeably, nobody challenged me on those.

    Crunch those numbers for a victim of Dublin/Monaghan...see what they think?


    Yeh...they'd be right, you are talking utter protectionist rubbish again.


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    #1193
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Those are very big ifs and they are based on the biggest if of all - that he has knowledge of who the PSNI think committed the crime. He may know what's in the files, he may not. The decision not to release the files may not have required him to familiarise himself with the content, or he may have just approved a recommendation from someone who did the investigation of the content. For example:

    Memo to Harris: These files contain information that may cause controversy if released as the information in them is not soundly based and likely to be inaccurate. We recommend that you refuse release.

    Harris: Agreed.

    Bang goes the conspiracy theory.

    However, every Garda Commissioner, every politician, every CEO, everyone in any senior position has similar potential conflicts of interest.

    It is only current substantive ones that have the potential to impede the normal work that prevent an appointment. The Dublin bombings are not current crimes, they have no impact on the current day-to-day running of the force, very easy to shunt them off to a deputy with zero impact on the job. So, while there are potential conflicts of interest, they are not serious enough or substantive enough to prevent his appointment.

    It is all a ruse from the Shinners to hide their distaste at a Protestant unionist holding a prominent role in Ireland.

    He can't disclose anyway because of his oath to the queens secrecy act. Another brilliant appointment by Lieo.


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    #1194
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    smurgen wrote: »
    He can't disclose anyway because of his oath to the queens secrecy act. Another brilliant appointment by Lieo.

    That doesn't contradict anything in my post.

    In fact the language in your post only supports my view that it is all a ruse from the Shinners to hide their distaste at a Protestant unionist holding a prominent role in Ireland.


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    #1195
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    That doesn't contradict anything in my post.

    In fact the language in your post only supports my view that it is all a ruse from the Shinners to hide their distaste at a Protestant unionist holding a prominent role in Ireland.

    This is just yet another disgusting attempt to sectarianise.


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    #1196
    Truthvader
    Registered Users Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭Truthvader


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    This is just yet another disgusting attempt to sectarianise.

    And now this from the man who spends his waking hours promoting excusing and justifying Sinn Fein IRA who inflicted a thirty year murder campaign against their protestant neighbours


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    #1197
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,176 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Truthvader wrote: »
    And now this from the man who spends his waking hours promoting excusing and justifying Sinn Fein IRA who inflicted a thirty year murder campaign against their protestant neighbours

    Please show where I have ever 'justified' the IRA?

    STOP lying Truth.


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    #1198
    BluePlanet
    Registered Users Posts: 2,415 ✭✭✭BluePlanet


    Another reveal of the cosy relationship between FG and the banking cartel:
    KBC banker got (appointed to) State job while bank faced fine for tracker scandal.
    Finance Minister Paschal Donohoe appointed a senior KBC banker to run a new State lender after the Central Bank (CBI) had already made damning findings against the bank.

    Dara Deering, who was executive director of retail banking and a member of the board at KBC, was named CEO at Home Building Finance Ireland (HBFI) in May 2019.

    That was less than 18 months after the bank admitted its failure to follow regulations and protect customers who had wrongly lost their tracker mortgages.
    https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/kbc-banker-got-state-job-while-bank-faced-fine-for-tracker-scandal-39580882.html

    If you're not a banker like most of us, you have to wonder: are you being served, or are you on on the menu?


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    #1199
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    BluePlanet wrote: »
    Another reveal of the cosy relationship between FG and the banking cartel:
    KBC banker got (appointed to) State job while bank faced fine for tracker scandal.

    https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/kbc-banker-got-state-job-while-bank-faced-fine-for-tracker-scandal-39580882.html

    If you're not a banker like most of us, you have to wonder: are you being served, or are you on on the menu?

    Do people ever get fed up posting fake news and fake allegations?

    https://www.hbfi.ie/news/minister-donohoe-welcomes-appointment-of-first-chief-executive-officer-to-hbfi


    "Ms. Deering was selected as the first CEO of the newly established commercial State body by the Board of HBFI after a competitive open recruitment process earlier this year. "

    You would think from yourself and the Indo that Paschal personally got him the job. Oh wait, Bowie will be along in a minute to tell us it's all Leo's fault.


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    #1200
    Truthvader
    Registered Users Posts: 1,826 ✭✭✭Truthvader


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Please show where I have ever 'justified' the IRA?

    STOP lying Truth.

    Well how about this from a couple of days ago where you misrepresent the choice not to behave like an animal as a luxury

    "Some had the luxury of choice, others had no choice. "

    Caught out again.

    Plus never did hear back from you as to why Dessie Ellis a man living in a free house provided to him by the state with a paying job had "no choice".


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    #1201
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Truthvader wrote: »
    Well how about this from a couple of days ago where you misrepresent the choice not to behave like an animal as a luxury

    "Some had the luxury of choice, others had no choice. "

    Caught out again.

    Plus never did hear back from you as to why Dessie Ellis a man living in a free house provided to him by the state with a paying job had "no choice".

    Where do you get the idea it's a "free house"? unless you have evidence otherwise, he pays rent to the council on the basis of income.

    More "free house" guff. Is it any wonder you lot got steamrolled and continue to get hammered on housing failures.


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