FG to still just do nothing for the next 5 years - part 2

smurgen

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

No I’m not, dude, just comparing your weak argument to reality.

Your interpretation of reality. It's fine. You can't see the tanaiste retweeting bigots as pathetic. It's fine. But some of us can. I have no problem with you seeing things differently

Brendan Bendar

smurgen wrote: »

Your interpretation of reality. It's fine. You can't see the tanaiste retweeting bigots as pathetic. It's fine. But some of us can. I have no problem with you seeing things differently

‘Bigots’... those who disagree with your view.

What’s with auld ‘Angle Iron’ tweeting about the lorry trip with Roberto?

How does that sit with the ideal of a United Ireland, buddy.

Does it help, do you think?

Brendan Bendar

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

‘Bigots’... those who disagree with your view.

What’s with auld ‘Angle Iron’ tweeting about the lorry trip with Roberto?

How does that sit with the ideal of a United Ireland, buddy.

Does it help, do you think?

Stephen nolan is most certainly a bigot though??

Like dress it up,whatever way yous want,he deosnt view nationlists/unionists as equals and regularly critises nationlists for spurious reasons,while turning a blind eye to the uvf flexing its muscles summer 2019

Has been.disgracefully quiet on the noah donohue case,when.its obvious to all,theres massive controversy building there

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

‘Bigots’... those who disagree with your view.

What’s with auld ‘Angle Iron’ tweeting about the lorry trip with Roberto?

How does that sit with the ideal of a United Ireland, buddy.

Does it help, do you think?

I'd imagine the legal advice Naomi Long got was something along the lines of 'you can't allow one community to openly celebrate their version of partition and disallow another community celebrating their version of history'.

You'll just have to accept that there are two versions Brendi.

smurgen

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

‘Bigots’... those who disagree with your view.

What’s with auld ‘Angle Iron’ tweeting about the lorry trip with Roberto?

How does that sit with the ideal of a United Ireland, buddy.

Does it help, do you think?

I think anyone who mocks our language is a bigot. Do you not think so? That's my view.

James Brown

tobsey wrote: »

I take your point, students wealthy either through their own means or their families being given this, but means testing it would add a huge level of bureaucracy. As a once off payment it’s easier and more cost effective to just give it to everyone.

Surely on the same database says they're a student there's a household income? Simply put a cap. House makes too much, no extra.

tobsey

Bowie wrote: »

Surely on the same database says they're a student there's a household income? Simply put a cap. House makes too much, no extra.

I would very much doubt household income would be on a database of students for this purpose. For what basis would they have collected and continued to store that very personal information?

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

Surely on the same database says they're a student there's a household income? Simply put a cap. House makes too much, no extra.

Say what?

What database?

Why would Tralee Institute of Technology (or any other HEI) have access to the household income levels of every student on their campus?

It seems there are huge misconceptions about how the public service works.

smurgen

Seems to me like FG Minister for Justice is in serious hot water now. She only put one of the name forward for the role of SC. She's not very clear on what happened any seems to be fudging the answer. Hopefully this is addressed by her in the Dail.

https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1179907/

Nobotty

smurgen wrote: »

Seems to me like FG Minister for Justice is in serious hot water now. She only put one of the name forward for the role of SC. She's not very clear on what happened any seems to be fudging the answer. Hopefully this is addressed by her in the Dail.

https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1179907/

Her problem there is the Taoiseach says he wasn't aware of any of the other names
Also wasn't it her position originally that she brought forward woulfe on the basis of the judicial advisory boards recommendation
She's changed to something different now and relies on the cabinet hand book
Fishy and slippery when wet

blanch152

smurgen wrote: »

Seems to me like FG Minister for Justice is in serious hot water now. She only put one of the name forward for the role of SC. She's not very clear on what happened any seems to be fudging the answer. Hopefully this is addressed by her in the Dail.

https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1179907/

Seems to me like there is nothing new in that article.

smurgen

Nobotty wrote: »

Her problem there is the Taoiseach says he wasn't aware of any of the other names
Also wasn't it her position originally that she brought forward woulfe on the basis of the judicial advisory boards recommendation
She's changed to something different now and relies on the cabinet hand book
Fishy and slippery when wet

That's how I read it also. Seems unclear on what she actually disclosed and to who versus what she initially said.

James Brown

tobsey wrote: »

I would very much doubt household income would be on a database of students for this purpose. For what basis would they have collected and continued to store that very personal information?

For grants purposes. Apply for any form of grant they'd have that on file.
If they do not avail of or are not eligible for grants there's a good chance they don't need that money either.

blanch152 wrote: »

Say what?

What database?

Why would Tralee Institute of Technology (or any other HEI) have access to the household income levels of every student on their campus?

It seems there are huge misconceptions about how the public service works.

See above or do you think the colleges are getting a pile of cash off Harris to distribute themselves?
What database? is Harris just sticking a pin in the phone book?
And I don't know how it works? :rolleyes:

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

For grants purposes. Apply for any form of grant they'd have that on file.
If they do not avail of or are not eligible for grants there's a good chance they don't need that money either.



See above or do you think the colleges are getting a pile of cash off Harris to distribute themselves?
What database? is Harris just sticking a pin in the phone book?
And I don't know how it works? :rolleyes:

Eh, yes, colleges are getting a pile of cash off Harris to distribute themselves. Read the news article, it will be a credit towards the student contribution.

SUSI students will be dealt with through SUSI, for everyone else the money is going to the colleges for distribution.

Again, what database? There is no central database for students, other than those getting SUSI grants. Even then, the data held is limited.

https://susi.ie/student-universal-support-ireland-susi/privacy-statement/susi-data-protection-statement/

SUSI shares income detail with the Revenue Commissioners, it doesn't give it to colleges.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Eh, yes, colleges are getting a pile of cash off Harris to distribute themselves. Read the news article, it will be a credit towards the student contribution.

SUSI students will be dealt with through SUSI, for everyone else the money is going to the colleges for distribution.

Again, what database? There is no central database for students, other than those getting SUSI grants. Even then, the data held is limited.

https://susi.ie/student-universal-support-ireland-susi/privacy-statement/susi-data-protection-statement/

SUSI shares income detail with the Revenue Commissioners, it doesn't give it to colleges.

Can we stay on topic for a moment? I'm saying the fiscally conservative government could allocate where needed instead of a blanket pay out to people who don't need it.

The next section was how they could? I'm suggesting they may have info like househould income etc. on a student database, which they most certainly have on third level students availing of grants through LA's and others. I could be wrong as regards all students. No harm no foul. That's the gist.

What database?

The Statistics Unit is responsible for collecting, analysing and disseminating student & graduate data returned to the HEA from all HEA-funded institutions. These data form the Student Record System database in the HEA (the SRS).

Share

We provide analyses of higher education student enrolments, new entrants and graduates each year. Tables for download and data visualisations containing these data are available on these pages. We conduct analysis of student progression from first to second year annually. In addition to analysis of the SRS data, we gather graduate outcomes data via the annual Graduate Outcomes Survey, where we analyse the first destination of graduates and their earnings nine months after graduation. We also analyse the socio-economic profile of the higher education population each year using deprivation index scores derived from home address data.

Now I know you want to dive in because I'm criticising Harris a little, but just trying to discuss here. I'm not playing your childish tit for tat game of trip up.

They surely keep info of people who avail of grants, these people are means tested. That's my thinking on it.

I can see there may be issues...

Income data for thousands of students receiving grants is ‘incomplete’

But the mechanism seems to be there. That's all I'm pondering

Bishop of hope

Bowie wrote: »

Can we stay on topic for a moment? I'm saying the fiscally conservative government could allocate where needed instead of a blanket pay out to people who don't need it.

The next section was how they could? I'm suggesting they may have info like househould income etc. on a student database, which they most certainly have on third level students availing of grants through LA's and others. I could be wrong as regards all students. No harm no foul. That's the gist.

What database?



Now I know you want to dive in because I'm criticising Harris a little, but just trying to discuss here. I'm not playing your childish tit for tat game of trip up.

They surely keep info of people who avail of grants, these people are means tested. That's my thinking on it.

I can see there may be issues...



But the mechanism seems to be there. That's all I'm pondering

No you're being Selective and just arguing every toss.
It's a good initiative.

smurgen

Between this comment and Seamus Woulfe's KKK comment FG are not painting themselves in glory.

https://twitter.com/Independent_ie/status/1331270106282942464?s=19

James Brown

Bishop of hope wrote: »

No you're being Selective and just arguing every toss.
It's a good initiative.

So I say it would be better to make sure it's allocated to those who need it and not to those who don't. Fair comment.
Here you are inferring your own belief on my thinking. Not much in the way of conversation Bishop. Maybe try stick to the ball not the man?

James Brown

smurgen wrote: »

Between this comment and Seamus Woulfe's KKK comment FG are not painting themselves in glory.

https://twitter.com/Independent_ie/status/1331270106282942464?s=19

They can't help but make complete arses out of themselves. How ignorant.

smurgen

Bowie wrote: »

They can't help but make complete arses out of themselves. How ignorant.

I think it just goes to show how out of touch they are with ordinary people. They forget themselves and the ego is exposed. Apartheid like. Extremely careless language again.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

Can we stay on topic for a moment? I'm saying the fiscally conservative government could allocate where needed instead of a blanket pay out to people who don't need it.

The next section was how they could? I'm suggesting they may have info like househould income etc. on a student database, which they most certainly have on third level students availing of grants through LA's and others. I could be wrong as regards all students. No harm no foul. That's the gist.

What database?



Now I know you want to dive in because I'm criticising Harris a little, but just trying to discuss here. I'm not playing your childish tit for tat game of trip up.

They surely keep info of people who avail of grants, these people are means tested. That's my thinking on it.

I can see there may be issues...



But the mechanism seems to be there. That's all I'm pondering

Nope, the HEA's SRS data is insufficient to address that point - the "deprivation index scores derived from home address data" is based on address location by CSO area, but tells you nothing about an individual student's income, just the average for the area. It is also anonymised for GDPR reasons.

This is not "playing your childish tit for tat game of trip up" as you describe it. If a poster comes up with a silly idea and I poke holes in it and show it is completely unworkable, that is just addressing the facts.

It simply isn't possible to identify students in the way you suggest. The data isn't there. Pretending that it is to preserve your dignity is not something I am going to do.

Brendan Bendar

smurgen wrote: »

I think it just goes to show how out of touch they are with ordinary people. They forget themselves and the ego is exposed. Apartheid like. Extremely careless language again.

Who are these ‘ordinary people’ you speak of.

I would consider myself an ‘ordinary person ‘ and I feel in touch.

Could you outline your conception of “ordinary people” so we can judge where you are coming from, Coach.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Nope, the HEA's SRS data is insufficient to address that point - the "deprivation index scores derived from home address data" is based on address location by CSO area, but tells you nothing about an individual student's income, just the average for the area. It is also anonymised for GDPR reasons.

This is not "playing your childish tit for tat game of trip up" as you describe it. If a poster comes up with a silly idea and I poke holes in it and show it is completely unworkable, that is just addressing the facts.

It simply isn't possible to identify students in the way you suggest. The data isn't there. Pretending that it is to preserve your dignity is not something I am going to do.

Fair enough, if you know that for certain.

A silly idea to allocate funds were they are needed and not, where they are not...is silly? Seems like you are looking to score points.

Do you never tire of misrepresenting people to try score points?

Bowie wrote: »

I'm suggesting they may have info like househould income etc. on a student database, which they most certainly have on third level students availing of grants through LA's and others. I could be wrong as regards all students. No harm no foul. That's the gist.

It's very dishonest.

"This is not "playing your childish tit for tat game of trip up" as you describe it. "
Seems exactly like what it is.

smurgen

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Who are these ‘ordinary people’ you speak of.

I would consider myself an ‘ordinary person ‘ and I feel in touch.

Could you outline your conception of “ordinary people” so we can judge where you are coming from, Coach.

You never came back to me on post 2170 coach? Did you consider someone who mocks our language to be a bigot? I wouldn't consider anyone who derides a language to be an ordinary person for start. Especially in a bigoted way.

tobsey

Bowie wrote: »

Fair enough, if you know that for certain.

A silly idea to allocate funds were they are needed and not, where they are not...is silly? Seems like you are looking to score points.

Do you never tire of misrepresenting people to try score points?



It's very dishonest.

"This is not "playing your childish tit for tat game of trip up" as you describe it. "
Seems exactly like what it is.

Any chance you’d call it a good idea now so?

James Brown

tobsey wrote: »

Any chance you’d call it a good idea now so?

It's a great idea to give money to those need it.
I don't agree with giving people money they don't need and therefore should not be due.
Do you?

I said his idea "seems a little ill-thought out." You FG'ers are fierce delicate.

markodaly

smurgen wrote: »

Very interesting to see the once mighty Leo Varadkar now reduced to retweeting the bigoted Stephen Nolan.

How is Stephen Nolan bigoted? Serious question.

golfball37

markodaly wrote: »

How is Stephen Nolan bigoted? Serious question.

He’s not. He goes at DUP just as hard as SF when they have questions to answer. In some people’s eyes being unionist or of British persuasion equals bigot which is childish and sad in the extreme.

James Brown

golfball37 wrote: »

He’s not. He goes at DUP just as hard as SF when they have questions to answer. In some people’s eyes being unionist or of British persuasion equals bigot which is childish and sad in the extreme.

This assumes he's called a bigot for criticing SF and not the DUP. I believe it related to the Irish language?

smurgen

Bowie wrote: »

This assumes he's called a bigot for criticing SF and not the DUP. I believe it related to the Irish language?

How did you possibly guess that?it wasn't all those times I mentioned the language by any chance was it?