What’s the alternative for Direct Provision?

suicide_circus

Yeah it does seem to be the length of time thats the issue. But quicker decisions, fewer appeals etc means less gravy train for the legal eagles and NGOs and that cant be right

weldoninhio

suicide_circus wrote: »

Yeah it does seem to be the length of time thats the issue. But quicker decisions, fewer appeals etc means less gravy train for the legal eagles and NGOs and that cant be right

Ireland needs a massive cull of NGOs. We have far too many.

mynamejeff

Eric Cartman wrote: »

90 day max turnaround , 45 days first application , if all the info isn't gathered etc.. automatic deny , 45 day single appeal process , if its denied again you're on a plane out of here.

a quota system also , 1/3rd women, 1/3rd men, 1/6th male children, 1/6th female children. Stop some of these countries only sending men or 'children' with beards.

during that 90 days in effectively a detention centre near the airport.

if you make it through the process, be allowed in under strict conditions, regularly reporting to Garda stations , any convictions - you're out, any association with religious extremists - you're out, you must actively engage in education to learn the English language, provided group monitored accommodation with other asylum people. Reduced social welfare only on a card that cannot translate to cash. a complete 10 year post admittance monitoring and supervision program.

more or less correct ,

but in this country right now ?

not a flipping hope

Bannasidhe

weldoninhio wrote: »

Ireland needs a massive cull of NGOs. We have far too many.

True.

But NGO's don't determine refugee status - that's the Dept of Justice and Equality.

Bonniedog

Speeding up the asylum process is the way to go, but too many vested interests involved.

It is not rocket science to determine if someone has a case; if they do then I would support them being allowed to work. If not, then off they go.

What we need is a coherent political voice putting the sensible position on all of this across, but all parties in Dáil sing off the same song sheet. Only exceptions are a few indos.

suicide_circus

I foresee a situation being engineered in which positive asylum requests are sped up but negative outcomes and associated appeals remain at the same speed.

TomTomTim

Bannasidhe wrote: »

True.

But NGO's don't determine refugee status - that's the Dept of Justice and Equality.

Keep in mind that people have got legal status as citizens in this country from mere media campaigns; NGOs are the very type of groups who push for said campaigns. NGOs, which are often funded by us, use our resources to fight against our own interests. They don't do this on their own though, they do it alongside a media class that are all but in bed with them. This country is actually quite underrated when it comes to how corrupt we are, at least in regards to our hegemony at least.

Geuze

gailforecast wrote: »

Do we just need to process applications sooner, or is there actually a practical solution that can be an alternative?

Process all claims within 7 days at ports.

Geuze

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Immediately deport anyone who claims to have arrived here without papers. (They flushed them down the toilet on the plane if they arrived by air.)

Yes, if you destruct your travel documents, then immediate deportation, within the same week.

shaveAbullock

smelly sock wrote: »

What do the like of Australia do in situations like this?

What does Saudi Arabia do? They are much closer to the homeland of many of the asylum seekers we are currently taking.
They also frequently hold a chair on the United Nations Human Rights Council so there are a number of factors that would make them excellent guides on such matters.

biko

The decision process must be transparent to everyone and impeccable to scrutiny.

Gatling

biko wrote: »

The decision process must be transparent to everyone and impeccable to scrutiny.

We will never get a transparent system ,it's like when they brought in the digital finger print scanners for the immigration department ,and it was widely believed they were actually being used to detect illegals who had registered in other countries ,then several years later we find out that they were sitting there gathering dust because Unions wanted immigration officials to be given another paygrade increase for being finger print technicians .

We don't know where the majority of the 60,000 + who have been through dp are , and very few deportations especially involving bogus claims.


How people Have this idea we can simply house everyone who comes here straight away regardless of if they are given status or not

Sonrisa

Eric Cartman wrote: »

keeping people away from crime and religious extremism, ensuring there isn't an oversupply of adult men, providing English language training and expediting deportations, ohh no how awful a functional system would be :rolleyes:

The reason there may be more adult men is that we don't have many safe pathways for those seeking asylum- it's not a journey that is that easy for women or children to make. Most of those men have families back at home.

Language training and expediting cases- great.

You seem to however want to segregate people even after they "get through" your system. That ain't going to help anything. And there's no evidence that crime or religious fundamentalism are an issue within asylum seekers or refugees in Ireland.

Gatling

Sonrisa wrote: »

The reason there may be more adult men is that we don't have many safe pathways for those seeking asylum- it's not a journey that is that easy for women or children to make. Most of those men have families back at home.

Language training and expediting cases- great.

You seem to however want to segregate people even after they "get through" your system. That ain't going to help anything. And there's no evidence that crime or religious fundamentalism are an issue within asylum seekers or refugees in Ireland.

Lol

Bonniedog

Sonrisa wrote: »

The reason there may be more adult men is that we don't have many safe pathways for those seeking asylum- it's not a journey that is that easy for women or children to make. Most of those men have families back at home.

Language training and expediting cases- great.

You seem to however want to segregate people even after they "get through" your system. That ain't going to help anything. And there's no evidence that crime or religious fundamentalism are an issue within asylum seekers or refugees in Ireland.

So how come ship loads of men in their late teens or early 20s didn't land in Ellis Island?

Men don't abandon their families in situations of danger. Then again, vast majority of "asylum seekers" here are not fleeing any danger, other than perhaps a prison sentence for ordinary crime.

Tell me how

Eric Cartman wrote: »

90 day max turnaround , 45 days first application , if all the info isn't gathered etc.. automatic deny , 45 day single appeal process , if its denied again you're on a plane out of here.

a quota system also , 1/3rd women, 1/3rd men, 1/6th male children, 1/6th female children. Stop some of these countries only sending men or 'children' with beards.

during that 90 days in effectively a detention centre near the airport.

if you make it through the process, be allowed in under strict conditions, regularly reporting to Garda stations , any convictions - you're out, any association with religious extremists - you're out, you must actively engage in education to learn the English language, provided group monitored accommodation with other asylum people. Reduced social welfare only on a card that cannot translate to cash. a complete 10 year post admittance monitoring and supervision program.

Helping people fleeing persecution by treating them differently to people in the country if they are lucky enough to be granted asylum is a sure fire way to promote division.

Could absolutely see a shorter process than currently exist (bear in mind, non-asylum applications to places like the US can often take 6 months plus) but the rest of this about how to treat them when they are in the country is just racism through clenched teeth.

Eric Cartman

Tell me how wrote: »

Helping people fleeing persecution by treating them differently to people in the country if they are lucky enough to be granted asylum is a sure fire way to promote division.

Could absolutely see a shorter process than currently exist (bear in mind, non-asylum applications to places like the US can often take 6 months plus) but the rest of this about how to treat them when they are in the country is just racism through clenched teeth.

There are white asylum seekers too, no race element to it.

But ill admit, the government believe 90% of asylum seekers are bogus, I believe its closer to 99%

The only persecution these people are fleeing is living in a country poorer than western european nations tend to be.

Im hardly asking them to wear a star on their coats, just check in to a garda station once a month, have to attend english lessons and dont do any crimes, not a big ask for somebody who truly wants a better life.

Not doing a crime or getting involved with religious extremism is hardly a tough ask considering the hardship theyre supposedly fleeing and how they fled it.

How do you define religious extremism?

weldoninhio

Geuze wrote: »

Yes, if you destruct your travel documents, then immediate deportation, within the same week.

Shouldn’t be allowed off the plane.

The_Kew_Tour

gailforecast wrote: »

Do we just need to process applications sooner, or is there actually a practical solution that can be an alternative?

Give them all a free house and give them social welfare for life and we taxpayer can pay for it all

Gatling

Tell me how wrote: »

Helping people fleeing persecution by treating them differently to people in the country

But yet the majority are not fleeing persecution or war .


One guy claimed he fled south Africa due to the presecution of lesbians , and he's straight and male .

Men Fleeing the great lesbian persecution - come it's time to make serious changes to our system

Bonniedog

Gatling wrote: »

One guy claimed he fled south Africa due to the presecution of lesbians , and he's straight and male .

The only people with legitimate reason to seek asylum from South Africa are the white farmers subject to ethnic cleansing, and black activists under threat from ANC for exposing the endemic corruption and incompetency.

Mad_maxx

Bannasidhe wrote: »

True.

But NGO's don't determine refugee status - that's the Dept of Justice and Equality.

They influence policy decisions

Mad_maxx

Gatling wrote: »

But yet the majority are not fleeing persecution or war .


One guy claimed he fled south Africa due to the presecution of lesbians , and he's straight and male .

Men Fleeing the great lesbian persecution - come it's time to make serious changes to our system

that guy sound's like he has a good sense of humour, I'd let him stay

hatrickpatrick

suicide_circus wrote: »

Yeah it does seem to be the length of time thats the issue.

What so many here aren't getting is that this is not a DP issue. The entire legal process takes far too long and is far, far too bogged down in inefficient, archaic practises and red tape. I mean, how is the length of time it takes to process an asylum application any different to the fact that you can be arraigned on a murder rap tomorrow and not have your case heard until next September in court? It's absolute madness. Fairly obvious that we need more resources in the entire justice system to speed it up - from more judges to more prison spaces. At the same time we also need archaic work practises gotten rid of - there's literally no excuse for someone being accused of a crime, filing a lawsuit against someone else or indeed making an asylum request having to wait a year or more for their case to come up. This kind of sh!te wouldn't be tolerated in any other industry so why do we tolerate it from the legal system?

Blaming the people making appeals and wrongful requests for asylum is misdirected anger in my view. The entire system itself is built on a foundation of lethargy, and that's the bottleneck. If it wasn't, you wouldn't be able to draw such direct parallels to the prosecution of petty crime and the progress of civil lawsuits - like asylum requests, these things drag on for years, and years, and years, without any legitimate reason for the process to take so long.

hatrickpatrick

Gatling wrote: »

One guy claimed he fled south Africa due to the presecution of lesbians , and he's straight and male .

Did you just assume his gender?! :mad:

JJayoo

Direct provision is intentionally dire to stop more people entering the system.

Gatling

JJayoo wrote: »

Direct provision is intentionally dire to stop more people entering the system.

Hasn't stopped 60,000 + who lived in Dp .and still coming

Get fed , clothing , small allowence ,free medical care ,free to leave for holidays ,

Has anyone ever seen a starving asylum seeker due to not eating the so called inedible food been served to them 3 /4 times a day

JJayoo

Gatling wrote: »

Hasn't stopped 60,000 + who lived in Dp .and still coming

Get fed , clothing , small allowence ,free medical care ,free to leave for holidays ,

Has anyone ever seen a starving asylum seeker due to not eating the so called inedible food been served to them 3 /4 times a day

How many would it be if it was an efficient system?

The_Kew_Tour

One issue that I have is that genuine refugees are losing out to people scamming out system.

I don’t have any issue helping people who need our help. That’s what some don’t see. They want help everyone in DP even though so many cases are BS. Then the people who really need our help don’t get it and don’t get in.