Seattle defund police

Bonniedog

Foxtrol wrote: »

Being finally held accountable for your actions tends to lower morale. For example, cops from surrounding areas of NYC are refusing to enter the city due to not being allowed choke people anymore.

The source of 1% is the Forbes article I linked earlier.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/isabeltogoh/2020/08/11/seattle-police-chief-announces-retirement-after-signing-off-on-100000-pay-cut-and-funding-cuts/#555297f87a56

So you think that mainly black people being murdered in increasing numbers is a good thing I assume?

That is the consequence of undermining the NYPD.

mynamejeff

Foxtrol wrote: »

Being finally held accountable for your actions tends to lower morale. For example, cops from surrounding areas of NYC are refusing to enter the city due to not being allowed choke people anymore.

The source of 1% is the Forbes article I linked earlier.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/isabeltogoh/2020/08/11/seattle-police-chief-announces-retirement-after-signing-off-on-100000-pay-cut-and-funding-cuts/#555297f87a56

if you cant say some thing intelligent you should say nothing at all

if protesters cant protest without looting then they cant be allowed to protest .

:rolleyes:

2u2me

satguy wrote: »

All the Police Departments over there were starting to resemble stormtrooper squadrons ,, and less and less like the bobby on the street.

If you give cops armour and assault weapons, you turn cops into stormtroopers ..

Not Good ..

It's hard to disagree with that. Who wants that sort of thing?

The thing is though this argument is revolving around funding, the argument goes "By defunding the police you can put these funds to better use elsewhere".

By removing the militarization of the police through programs like 1033 and 1122 they aren't actually saving any funds as they are handmedowns from the military.
The bulk of that equipment?

"The most commonly obtained item from the 1033 program is ammunition. Some of the most commonly requested items include ammunition, cold weather clothing, sand bags, medical supplies, sleeping bags, flashlights and electrical wiring."

If you count where the money is spent on by the military most of it is spent on MRAPS (Mine-resistant, ambush protected vehicles), the same type of vehicle seen saving protestors(Acting as an ambulance) when things turned violent in many protests.

Foxtrol

Bonniedog wrote: »

So you think that mainly black people being murdered in increasing numbers is a good thing I assume?

That is the consequence of undermining the NYPD.

Do you think police choking people stopped black murders? :rolleyes:

Also, despite increased murder, overall crime is down so far in NYC in 2020. Is that also 'the consequence of undermining the NYPD'?

mynamejeff

2u2me wrote: »

It's hard to disagree with that. Who wants that sort of thing?

The thing is though this argument is revolving around funding, the argument goes "By defunding the police you can put these funds to better use elsewhere".

By removing the militarization of the police through programs like 1033 and 1122 they aren't actually saving any funds as they are handmedowns from the military.
The bulk of that equipment?


If you count where the money is spent on by the military most of it is spent on MRAPS (Mine-resistant, ambush protected vehicles), the same type of vehicle seen saving protestors(Acting as an ambulance) when things turned violent in many protests.

I wonder if they are using all that ammo for the much needed training that everyone agrees they need ? or are they just going into ghettos and mowing down rank after rank of promising sports men and aspiring rappers ?

Foxtrol

mynamejeff wrote: »

if you cant say some thing intelligent you should say nothing at all

if protesters cant protest without looting then they cant be allowed to protest .

:rolleyes:

What are you talking about? Protesters should be arrested for breaking the law, just like cops should.

In case you didn't know, here is the release from Westchester police not allowing their cops into NYC if they aren't allowed to choke people. Yonkers released similar.

https://twitter.com/coryprovost/status/1284108366499975170?s=20

stinkypinky

Foxtrol wrote: »

Do you think police choking people stopped black murders? :rolleyes:

Also, despite increased murder, overall crime is down so far in NYC in 2020. Is that also 'the consequence of undermining the NYPD'?

Dunno where you're pulling your figures from but shooting victims are up 81% from Jan-Aug 2019 and shooting incidents are up 76% from the same period in NYC. But sure if there's less parking tickets what does it matter?

Foxtrol

stinkypinky wrote: »

From what I see they plan to fire 100 of 1400 officers and decrease wages across the board, with a plan to defund more by 2021.

Truth of the matter is a radical left fringe have bullied the council and being the cowards they are they've bent over and complied. The overwhelming majority of people in the states does not want to see police departments defunded, even for things like suggested in the picture posted.

One outcome and one outcome only - more crime.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/64-americans-oppose-defund-police-movement-key-goals/story?id=71202300

64% of Americans oppose 'defund the police' movement, key goals: POLL

"Strong majorities of Americans oppose the movement to "defund the police" and some of its most significant goals, specifically reshuffling funding away from law enforcement to support mental health, housing and education programs, a new ABC News/Ipsos poll released Friday finds.

Nearly two-thirds of Americans oppose calls for defunding police departments, compared to 34% who back the movement, and 60% specifically oppose reducing the budget for police to reallocate it to other public health and social programs, while 39% support that move."

What was signed off and what many here are claiming will be akin to the end of civilisation is a less than 1% cut to a $400 million budget. People need to get a grip of themselves

2u2me

Foxtrol wrote: »

It is pretty obvious that the city has done what many other has and tried to find a middle ground that annoyed everybody.

Pretending a 1% cut in budget is some kind of armageddon is utter nonsense

It's the mayor and chief of police who were objecting the most.

Durkan[Mayor] and Best had urged the council to slow down its discussions about police budgets, saying the issue could be taken up in earnest when the 2021 city budget is considered. They also said any layoffs would disproportionately target newer officers, often hired from Black and brown communities, and would inevitably lead to lawsuits.

Surely it is an argmaggedon if it disproportionately affects black and brown communities?


Where did Forbes get that 1% from?

However, the council recently admitted it would not be able to hit that 50% mark – about $85 million — for 2020, and instead would pass what it could for the 2020 package and focus on getting to that 50% in the 2021 budget, which the council starts work on next month. The council estimates that if enacted annually, the cuts it approved Monday would total 41%.

The highlights of the 2020 package approved by councilmembers Monday include:

• Eliminating up to 100 sworn officer positions across various teams via layoffs and attrition (including 32 patrol officers), beginning in November 2020
• Capping command staff pay at $150,000 (not including Chief Best’s salary, which was reduced to $275,000).
• Ending the Navigation Team (14 of the 100 officers mentioned above)

https://mynorthwest.com/2083086/city-council-expected-approve-cuts-spd/

Foxtrol

stinkypinky wrote: »

Dunno where you're pulling your figures from but shooting victims are up 81% from Jan-Aug 2019 and shooting incidents are up 76% from the same period. But sure if there's less parking tickets what does it matter?

NYPD's own data based on the 7 major crimes (updated weekly).

Most don't see this because the police unions and media make a living off making uninformed people scared.

https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/downloads/pdf/crime_statistics/cs-en-us-city.pdf

stinkypinky

2u2me wrote: »

Where did Forbes get that 1% from?

Absolutely laughable, then he has the gall to claim the police chief resigned over wages.

stinkypinky

Foxtrol wrote: »

NYPD's own data based on the 7 major crimes (updated weekly).

Most don't see this because the police unions and media make a living off making uninformed people scared.

https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/downloads/pdf/crime_statistics/cs-en-us-city.pdf

What's your point? Shootings and shooting victims have almost doubled compared to the same period, Jan-Aug of last year.

suicide_circus

If i was a cop in the states i'd be giving society the finger and letting chaos reign.

Kindergarten Cop is now "problematic" because it depicts the police in a positive light.

mynamejeff

Foxtrol wrote: »

What are you talking about? Protesters should be arrested for breaking the law, just like cops should.

In case you didn't know, here is the release from Westchester police not allowing their cops into NYC if they aren't allowed to choke people. Yonkers released similar.

https://twitter.com/coryprovost/status/1284108366499975170?s=20

id suggest that a lot of Westchester police officer are former NYPD officers, and hired because of that fact

I guess thanks to this kind of thing more violent criminals will escape justice just by crossing a county line ,

as for the stats I guess less cops to record crimes means less crimes recorded let alone solved .

again the only winners are criminals

Foxtrol

2u2me wrote: »

It's the mayor and chief of police who were objecting the most.

Surely it is an argmaggedon if it disproportionately affects black and brown communities?

Where did Forbes get that 1% from?

https://mynorthwest.com/2083086/city-council-expected-approve-cuts-spd/

Where does your article point to the total value of the actual cuts approved for 2020?

Here is CNN saying the cuts totaled $4m and Forbes said $3.5m

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/11/us/seattle-police-chief-budget-cut-4-million/index.html

Foxtrol

stinkypinky wrote: »

What's your point? Shootings and shooting victims have almost doubled compared to the same period, Jan-Aug of last year.

If you're going to claim increased shootings is 'the consequence of undermining the NYPD' then it only makes sense to say the fall in the other crimes the NYPD deem as being 'the most serious' must also be 'the consequence of undermining the NYPD'.

What makes much more sense is that shootings increasing and other crimes falling has little to nothing to do to with any perceived undermining the NYPD and that claiming so is complete nonsense.

Foxtrol

suicide_circus wrote: »

If i was a cop in the states i'd be giving society the finger and letting chaos reign.

Kindergarten Cop is now "problematic" because it depicts the police in a positive light.

I don't remember this scene in kindergarden cop. Cops only have themselves to blame for any new negative light

https://twitter.com/JulianCastro/status/1292822519234215938?s=20

Foxtrol

mynamejeff wrote: »

id suggest that a lot of Westchester police officer are former NYPD officers, and hired because of that fact

I guess thanks to this kind of thing more violent criminals will escape justice just by crossing a county line ,

as for the stats I guess less cops to record crimes means less crimes recorded let alone solved .

again the only winners are criminals

Or maybe cops just accept they shouldn't be choking people :rolleyes:

stinkypinky

The mayor of Seattle has already publicly proposed a plan defunding the department by 76 million by 2021, this is just the first step. Even with the so called "1%" - 100 police officers have lost their jobs out of a total of 1400, not insignificant at all.

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/mayor-durkan-announces-initial-76-million-reductions-2021-seattle-police-department-budget/3UJ2QEP5JNFTPA3XZRB6ZVSDDE/

SEATTLE — Seattle Mayor Jenny Durkan on Monday announced an initial $76 million in reductions to the 2021 Seattle Police Department budget.

Durkan said the reductions are part of a series of early actions designed to transform the department.

Durkan said $56 million will be transferred out of the department’s 2021 budget by moving the following functions to civilian oversight:

The 911 call center to be removed from the Seattle Police Department.
The parking enforcement division to be removed from the Seattle Police Department and into the Seattle Department of Transportation.
The Office of Emergency Management and office of police accountability to be removed from the Seattle Police Department.
Durkan said an additional $20 million in cuts to the SPD budget have been identified by not expanding the force in 2021 and by making reductions to overtime

pjohnson

Foxtrol wrote: »

I don't remember this scene in kindergarden cop. Cops only have themselves to blame for any new negative light

https://twitter.com/JulianCastro/status/1292822519234215938?s=20

At least they managed to not injure, kill or shoot him while doing the "arrest". They surely earned a promotion afterwards I assume? Thats amazing level of skill compared to how they normally do it.

Bonniedog

Foxtrol wrote: »

If you're going to claim increased shootings is 'the consequence of undermining the NYPD' then it only makes sense to say the fall in the other crimes the NYPD deem as being 'the most serious' must also be 'the consequence of undermining the NYPD'.

What makes much more sense is that shootings increasing and other crimes falling has little to nothing to do to with any perceived undermining the NYPD and that claiming so is complete nonsense.

It is more likely that people are unreporting other crime given the de Blasio attack on the cops. Murders and shootings are a bit more difficult to hide .... even for the Democrat Organized Crime Gang

suicide_circus

Foxtrol wrote: »

I don't remember this scene in kindergarden cop. Cops only have themselves to blame for any new negative light

https://twitter.com/JulianCastro/status/1292822519234215938?s=20

So because some cops behave badly its legitimate to view them all in a bad light. Ok so. Can this logic be applied to other groups?

Bonniedog

Foxtrol wrote: »

Or maybe cops just accept they shouldn't be choking people :rolleyes:

Homies stop murdering one another at rate of 4,500 a year might be a better contribution.

pjohnson

suicide_circus wrote: »

So because some cops behave badly its legitimate to view them all in a bad light. Ok so. Can this logic be applied to other groups?

Oh is it seen as bad they didnt kill/injure/shoot him?

2u2me

stinkypinky wrote: »

100 police officers have lost their jobs out of a total of 1400, not insignificant at all.

There was a further 14 from another force aswell.

Best said of these officers:

Best has said that, if forced to lay off officers, union rules would force out the younger, more diverse class of officers. The latest recruits were 39 percent people of color, the department's most diverse class to date, according to council staff. Council members have urged her to seek an exception to that rule from the city’s Public Safety and Civil Service Commission, although Councilmember Debora Juarez on Friday questioned whether that would be legal.

https://crosscut.com/news/2020/07/defunding-seattle-police-50-proving-complicated-council
So unfortunately it will affect minorities more; what was the goal again?

2u2me

Foxtrol wrote: »

Where does your article point to the total value of the actual cuts approved for 2020?

Here is CNN saying the cuts totaled $4m and Forbes said $3.5m

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/11/us/seattle-police-chief-budget-cut-4-million/index.html

Councilmember Lisa Herbold said the biggest obstacles toward making substantive and immediate cuts relate to the city’s contracts with the police unions, the fact that much of the department’s 2020 budget has already been spent and the city charter, which states all parts of the city must have adequate police presence.

Link
By firing cops now they are not saving a lot, in fact losing a lot in lawsuits. Next year these lost cops would represent a much more substantial saving on the budget.

Foxtrol

stinkypinky wrote: »

The mayor of Seattle has already publicly proposed a plan defunding the department by 76 million by 2021, this is just the first step. Even with the so called "1%" - 100 police officers have lost their jobs out of a total of 1400, not insignificant at all.

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/mayor-durkan-announces-initial-76-million-reductions-2021-seattle-police-department-budget/3UJ2QEP5JNFTPA3XZRB6ZVSDDE/

SEATTLE — Seattle Mayor Jenny Durkan on Monday announced an initial $76 million in reductions to the 2021 Seattle Police Department budget.

Durkan said the reductions are part of a series of early actions designed to transform the department.

Durkan said $56 million will be transferred out of the department’s 2021 budget by moving the following functions to civilian oversight:

The 911 call center to be removed from the Seattle Police Department.
The parking enforcement division to be removed from the Seattle Police Department and into the Seattle Department of Transportation.
The Office of Emergency Management and office of police accountability to be removed from the Seattle Police Department.
Durkan said an additional $20 million in cuts to the SPD budget have been identified by not expanding the force in 2021 and by making reductions to overtime

So like many cities just accounting exercises then. They are still being done but by other people.

Foxtrol

2u2me wrote: »

Link
By firing cops now they are not saving a lot, in fact losing a lot in lawsuits. Next year these lost cops would represent a much more substantial saving on the budget.

Well they aren't really 'lost' if the same jobs are just being done by other people (see previous poster).

I don't agree with stopping recruiting young people though but that is the usual tactics of union appeasement.

Foxtrol

Bonniedog wrote: »

It is more likely that people are unreporting other crime given the de Blasio attack on the cops. Murders and shootings are a bit more difficult to hide .... even for the Democrat Organized Crime Gang

There is no logic to what you're claiming. Burglaries and grand larcenies are very similar crimes but reporting of the former has increased drastically and the latter has fallen. Sure they are 'hiding' one but not the other :rolleyes:

BTW De Blasio has shown himself to be a complete coward when dealing with the NYPD, he has excused them at every turn even after one of the police unions doxed his daughter.

Manic Moran

Foxtrol wrote: »

In case you didn't know, here is the release from Westchester police not allowing their cops into NYC if they aren't allowed to choke people. Yonkers released similar.
https://twitter.com/coryprovost/status/1284108366499975170?s=20

Did you read the text of the order, or just the catchy title put onto it by the twitterer?