Aaron Brady Guilty as charged

Sunny Disposition

I couldn’t imagine a crowd of young lads involved in GAA from rural Clare or Tipperary having access to guns and going out shooting a Garda. It just doesn’t happen.
Similarly with the Paul Quinn murder, it wouldn’t happen in other parts of rural Ireland.
Part of the legacy of the Troubles is that the rural north is more lawless than the rural south. That’s not excusing Brady by any means, the scumbag.

Treppen

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There have been many trying to link it to republicanism and a few positively relishing in getting the boot into republican areas when their own loyalist areas have the exact same problems trying to return to normal.

They are right, this killing has a lot to do with republicanism. But it wasn't carried out because Brady was a republican. It happened because communities have been brutalised by the conflict, they have no respect or trust for the security forces on either side, that presents itself in all manner of ways and levels, this one the most heinous.
That is a direct result of partition and the societal problems it caused and that those in power now want to sweep under various carpets.

It is no excuse for what was done. I stick to my original comment here, I am glad he is going down for a long time.

No it didn't. It happened cos the guy took his own decision to pull a trigger and end a life.

Plenty of people in those " communities brutalised by conflict" who do the hard slog of working regular jobs, not robbing cars or credit unions out of some heart thumping nationalism or greed for a few grand.

That Aaron guy is so young he'd have only experienced the 'British oppression' from ****e talk in pubs.

Sunny Disposition

Treppen wrote: »

No it didn't. It happened cos the guy took his own decision to pull a trigger and end a life.

Plenty of people in those " communities brutalised by conflict" who do the hard slog of working regular jobs, not robbing cars or credit unions out of some heart thumping nationalism or greed for a few grand.

That Aaron guy is so young he'd have only experienced the 'British oppression' from ****e talk in pubs.

Hard to debate this without sounding like you want to explain it away, but south Armagh is obviously a wild and fairly lawless place. Sure, Brady and his friends are greedy, violent, reckless little pricks. But their equivalents in the rural south don’t get up to anything as serious as those fckers.
Unfortunately culturAl background is a factor, it’s why you have a disproportionate amount of black prisoners in American jails and a disproportionate amount of Travellers in our jails.

Hubertj

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Certainly not my intention.

There are difficult issues to be confronted around this murder. It is disrespectful not to air them.

I think republicanism has a responsibility on legacy issues and what post conflict healing is and needs. Adrian Donohue wasn't murdered by a republican but he most certainly died because of what happened on this island.

You have a point there, republicanism and criminality go hand in hand for many in the north unfortunately.

Also, Can this lad be sent back to his own jurisdiction to serve his sentence? I don’t Think the tax payer should foot the bill for housing and feeding this type of ‘human’.

Ash.J.Williams

Hubertj wrote: »

You have a point there, republicanism and criminality go hand in hand for many in the north unfortunately.

Also, Can this lad be sent back to his own jurisdiction to serve his sentence? I don’t Think the tax payer should foot the bill for housing and feeding this type of ‘human’.

Irish prisoners In the uk can apply to serve their sentence at home so I’m sure he can same

expectationlost

Infernal Racket wrote: »

You're not too far off the mark

how many years can they wait to do that? are there 'statutes of limitation' here? happened in 2013

Ten of Swords

Mod

A large number of off topic posts have been deleted. Stick to the topic in the op please, there are plenty of other threads to discuss politics on

joeguevara

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

So what way would the next charges go , are they capital crimes? I think the getaway driver falls under capital crime as direct help for the shooter?

Do you think they would fall under the definition of murder?

skooterblue2

expectationlost wrote: »

how many years can they wait to do that? are there 'statutes of limitation' here? happened in 2013

I have no qualifications in law, but I think once you leave the jurisdiction where you committed a crime, the statute of limitations is suspended. So if you run off during an active investigation, they can still investigate you and get a successful prosecution.

LuasSimon

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

I couldn’t imagine a crowd of young lads involved in GAA from rural Clare or Tipperary having access to guns and going out shooting a Garda. It just doesn’t happen.
Similarly with the Paul Quinn murder, it wouldn’t happen in other parts of rural Ireland.
Part of the legacy of the Troubles is that the rural north is more lawless than the rural south. That’s not excusing Brady by any means, the scumbag.

You’ve a short memory , plenty of young men in munster particularly Tipperary had young men like Sean Treacy and Dan Breen who shot plenty RIC officers with other young Tipperary men , the British army had no problem shooting Tipperary GAA players on Bloody Sunday in Croke Park .
If Tipperary had remained under British rule and had happened to be one of the 6 counties kept under British rule places like Upperchurch , Newport , Borris-Ileigh would be now as famous as Crossmaglen for lawlessness and republicanism .

The country should never have been divided , it has caused thousands of deaths through the civil war and the troubles . We should have all remained in the United Kingdom or all been in a United Ireland , not the fudge it ended up

skooterblue2

Infernal Racket wrote: »

GFA took care of that

That is a very controversial one but in the interests of the peace process, Jerry McCabes widow and Ben Sullivan put the national interest before their own. I can honestly say I wouldnt be that open to releasing the killers if it were my kin. Once you cock a gun you are mentally prepared to use it.

skooterblue2

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

So what way would the next charges go , are they capital crimes? I think the getaway driver falls under capital crime as direct help for the shooter?

Not a capital crime but very very serious. He should be doing serious time without remission.

LuasSimon

skooterblue2 wrote: »

That is a very controversial one but in the interests of the peace process, Jerry McCabes widow and Ben Sullivan put the national interest before their own. I can honestly say I wouldnt be that open to releasing the killers if it were my kin. Once you cock a gun you are mentally prepared to use it.

Would you say the same for the paratroopers who killed all the protestors on Bloody Sunday ? Or the loyalist gangs who murdered innocent Catholics on their way to mass ?

skooterblue2

LuasSimon wrote: »

Would you say the same for the paratroopers who killed all the protestors on Bloody Sunday ? Or the loyalist gangs who murdered innocent Catholics on their way to mass ?

That is all put behind us with the Good Friday Agreement. The killing of Jerry Mc Cabe, there was something odd about it. It was while the IRA were on cease fire or after the GFA and was snuck in. I am not sure but it was not regular.

LuasSimon

skooterblue2 wrote: »

That is all put behind us with the Good Friday Agreement. The killing of Jerry Mc Cabe, there was something odd about it. It was while the IRA were on cease fire or after the GFA and was snuck in. I am not sure but it was not regular.

That’s a very fair point .
I’d say it was hard to stop some people doing what they always did and many of those involved probably knew nothing else and had become immune to pain or suffering after all that had went on . But it does boil back to putting places like Crossmaglen into a state they were never going to accept .

Edgware

Hubertj wrote: »

You have a point there, republicanism and criminality go hand in hand for many in the north unfortunately.

Also, Can this lad be sent back to his own jurisdiction to serve his sentence? I don’t Think the tax payer should foot the bill for housing and feeding this type of ‘human’.

He does have a British passport. He was very quick running back to Her Majesty when he needed it. Obviously not a "good republican"

skooterblue2

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Jerry McCabes widow and Ben Sullivan put the national interest before their own. .

I don't believe either had any say in it.

Disgraceful on the part of Sinn Fein, denied that it was authorised bu the IRA, But by 'someone in the IRA' & then they campaigned for the release of the prisoners under the Good Friday Agreement.
The killers should have been charged with capital murder imo.

skooterblue2

bubblypop wrote: »

I don't believe either had any say in it.

Disgraceful on the part of Sinn Fein, denied that it was authorised bu the IRA, But by 'someone in the IRA' & then they campaigned for the release of the prisoners under the Good Friday Agreement.
The killers should have been charged with capital murder imo.

What if Jerry McCabes widow at the AGS conference and said "no more not another inch will we give". It could very easily have been any other garda out there that day. I believe the capital punishment was the only thing that prevented Irish Gardai from carrying guns. Once you start raising the stakes it is very hard to lower them. I think you kill a guard you do LWOPP. Doing 70 years without leaving the 'Joy would make you think long and hard about carrying a gun.

Edgware

LuasSimon wrote: »

You’ve a short memory , plenty of young men in munster particularly Tipperary had young men like Sean Treacy and Dan Breen who shot plenty RIC officers with other young Tipperary men , the British army had no problem shooting Tipperary GAA players on Bloody Sunday in Croke Park .
If Tipperary had remained under British rule and had happened to be one of the 6 counties kept under British rule places like Upperchurch , Newport , Borris-Ileigh would be now as famous as Crossmaglen for lawlessness and republicanism .

The country should never have been divided , it has caused thousands of deaths through the civil war and the troubles . We should have all remained in the United Kingdom or all been in a United Ireland , not the fudge it ended up

I would be of the opinion that if Home Rule had been introduced either in the late 19th century or in 1912/1914 there would never have been a demand for a Republic.
We would be good little subjects of the Queen with the same quirks of identity like the Welsh and Scots. Probably have done ok economically, developed a soccer league like England and provided thousands more soldiers for WW2. We would also have been subject to heavy bombing by the Luftwaffe, especially Dublin, Cork/Cobh, Belfast etc
We would have BBC Ireland, N.H.S. and plenty of M.B.Es O.B.E.s and Sir this and Lady that.
We would have a good cricket team as well. Kilkenny was noted for its cricket teams in years gone by so no change there

skooterblue2

skooterblue2 wrote: »

What if Jerry McCabes widow at the AGS conference and said "no more not another inch will we give". It could very easily have been any other garda out there that day. I believe the capital punishment was the only thing that prevented Irish Gardai from carrying guns. Once you start raising the stakes it is very hard to lower them. I think you kill a guard you do LWOPP. Doing 70 years without leaving the 'Joy would make you think long and hard about carrying a gun.

Wouldn't make one bit of difference what his widow said.
So, you agree they should have been charged with capital murder of Jerry McCabe

Infernal Racket

expectationlost wrote: »

how many years can they wait to do that? are there 'statutes of limitation' here? happened in 2013

No statute of limitations for "arrestable" offences i.e offences that carry a penalty of 5 years imprisonment or more

skooterblue2

bubblypop wrote: »

I don't believe either had any say in it.

Jerry McCabes widow was invited to speak at the rank and file members of the AGS union and said said the same. Without that the Gardai wouldnt have budged on the matter. Remember the "blue flu" day? Imagine a week of that? Remember the outcomes?

I personally dont think it should have been covered, but if it moved the peace process on then I would reluctantly do it.

skooterblue2

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Jerry McCabes widow was invited to speak at the rank and file members of the AGS union and said said the same. Without that the Gardai wouldnt have budged on the matter. Remember the "blue flu" day? Imagine a week of that? Remember the outcomes?

I personally dont think it should have been covered, but if it moved the peace process on then I would reluctantly do it.

You do know the Good Friday Agreement was a political agreement, that came from political discussions. The gardai had nothing to do with it. Neither does anyone care what they think.
Don't know what blue flu has to do with anything.

skooterblue2

bubblypop wrote: »

Wouldn't make one bit of difference what his widow said.
So, you agree they should have been charged with capital murder of Jerry McCabe

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/treatment-of-widow-criticised-1.1169102

yes it did at the time. She is widow of a Garda Killed in the line of duty. There are very few of those which gives her great gravitas with an AGS. She was the one that told the AGS this would be a negotiating point. I would not have agreed and told SF that it was outside the realms of GFA.

skooterblue2

bubblypop wrote: »

You do know the Good Friday Agreement was a political agreement, that came from political discussions. The gardai had nothing to do with it. Neither does anyone care what they think.
Don't know what blue flu has to do with anything.

Yes it was. The Gardai are 15,000 strong and have voting families, imagine if you upset that many garda families and law abiding citizens? It could have lead to a fully armed garda force. Would the gardai be unreasonable in demanding it? I dont think so.

skooterblue2

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Yes it was. The Gardai are 15,000 strong and have voting families, imagine if you upset that many garda families and law abiding citizens? It could have lead to a fully armed garda force. Would the gardai be unreasonable in demanding it? I dont think so.

I don't think you know what you are talking bout.

Anyway, I believe mccabes killers should also have been convicted of capital murder at well.

CrankyHaus

Edgware wrote: »

We would be good little subjects of the Queen with the same quirks of identity like the Welsh and Scots. Probably have done ok economically,

Economically, we performed abysmally under British rule. Even the peripheral parts of the UK which had strong economies hit skid row in the last half century. It's hard to see us doing any better than they did under British rule and easy to see us doing worse.

Sunny Disposition

LuasSimon wrote: »

You’ve a short memory , plenty of young men in munster particularly Tipperary had young men like Sean Treacy and Dan Breen who shot plenty RIC officers with other young Tipperary men , the British army had no problem shooting Tipperary GAA players on Bloody Sunday in Croke Park .
If Tipperary had remained under British rule and had happened to be one of the 6 counties kept under British rule places like Upperchurch , Newport , Borris-Ileigh would be now as famous as Crossmaglen for lawlessness and republicanism .

The country should never have been divided , it has caused thousands of deaths through the civil war and the troubles . We should have all remained in the United Kingdom or all been in a United Ireland , not the fudge it ended up

That’s kinda what I said over a few posts, the Troubles have left South Armagh as a lawless place.

skooterblue2

bubblypop wrote: »

I don't think you know what you are talking bout.

Anyway, I believe mccabes killers should also have been convicted of capital murder at well.

I am not sure you know what you are talking about either. The opposition would have been up in arms if the killers got away without anything in return. There could have been a vote of no confidence in the Minister and the Taoiseach and onto a general election that no one wanted.

Jerry McCabes killers were convicted of manslaughter instead of murder. I am fairly sure when you leave home with an AK-47 and cock it and aim it you are fairly sure what you intend to do with it. Any solicitor worth his salt should be able to bargain down murder to manslaughter. I dont agree with it but that is the way it is.

Edgware

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Economically, we performed abysmally under British rule. Even the peripheral parts of the UK which had strong economies hit skid row in the last half century. It's hard to see us doing any better than they did under British rule and easy to see us doing worse.

Well if we insist on having 10 kids in a family down in rural Ireland or in Dublin tenements its hard to have jobs for everyone except providing cannon fodder for the British Army.
8 million people before the Famine. We were cometely overpopulated