Covid-19 likely to be man made

alrightjack89

bb1234567 wrote: »

Where the theory falls through for me is why a bio weapon would be created that is relatively mild..with a pretty select at risk group. Why would you make a weapon that kills senior citizens with health issues. Not the most effective way to cripple a country really is it?

Who's talking about bio weapons to destroy countries?

The hypothesis is it leaked accidently from a Wuhan based lab who studied bat viruses and played around with them to make them more infectious, which happens in labs around the world. The Swiss even proved it when a Swiss lab made the first synthetic clone of sarscov2 in a lab. All that is a very realistic hypothesis

No one is saying it's a bio weapon or we are at war or it was released intentionally

Dohnjoe

bb1234567 wrote: »

Where the theory falls through for me is why a bio weapon would be created that is relatively mild..with a pretty select at risk group. Why would you make a weapon that kills senior citizens with health issues. Not the most effective way to cripple a country really is it?

You can make up any answer you want, just think like a conspiracy theorist.

e.g. the virus was deliberately created by the Chinese to impact the world economically, in order to give them an economic boost. They knew, being prepared, they would take a lesser economic hit than anyone else. And that's precisely what happened, they locked down very quick, and were back to almost full steam before most other countries.

Any appeal to motive will do

Dohnjoe

alrightjack89 wrote: »

Who's talking about bio weapons to destroy countries?

Conspiracy theorists are. It's also a "scam", a conspiracy by all world governments to destroy their economies and install "Communism", "Fascism", or hybrid of both, etc.

alrightjack89

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Translation: "This poster keeps asking perfectly straightforward and rational questions that challenge other poster's views on a public discussion forum, that is not on"

The other poster keeps using fact checka to close the arguements , with fact checka being wrong in itself.He will then use some prestige msm articles who no longer report news or science, they're just there to control a narrative to close the arguement.

The virus most likely came from a lab, but fact checka will say that's wrong, with no proof, just going on past coronaviruses and few hand selected virologists to back them up.

Alternative media is the only way forward, more and more are switching off their TVs and coming over, that's what I am seeing anyway.

alrightjack89

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Conspiracy theorists are. It's also a "scam", a conspiracy by all world governments to destroy their economies and install "Communism", "Fascism", or hybrid of both, etc.

Your stereotyping now

sydthebeat

alrightjack89 wrote: »

The other poster keeps using fact checka to close the arguements , with fact checka being wrong in itself.He will then use some prestige msm articles who no longer report news or science, they're just there to control a narrative to close the arguement.

The virus most likely came from a lab, but fact checka will say that's wrong, with no proof, just going on past coronaviruses and few hand selected virologists to back them up.

Alternative media is the only way forward, more and more are switching off their TVs and coming over, that's what I am seeing anyway.

Biden has given his guys 90 days to come back with a report... Why not wait to see how that goes?

Also, there's a big difference between "it came from a lab" and "it was man made"... Which is the conspiracy here?

alrightjack89

sydthebeat wrote: »

Biden has given his guys 90 days to come back with a report... Why not wait to see how that goes?

Also, there's a big difference between "it came from a lab" and "it was man made"... Which is the conspiracy here?

If it came from a lab it probably was man made with them peforming gain of function research on it.

If it just came from a lab and they didn't modify it, how did they find it and how did it not infect people before they found it, something as contagious as Covid that occured in nature and was found by a lab with no modification is like finding gold on Mars

What's Biden going to find out? The man couldn't find his dentures these days, he will be lucky if he makes it 90 days himself.

Dohnjoe

alrightjack89 wrote: »

The other poster keeps using fact checka to close the arguements , with fact checka being wrong in itself.He will then use some prestige msm articles who no longer report news or science, they're just there to control a narrative to close the arguement.

I don't understand this paragraph.

The virus most likely came from a lab, but fact checka will say that's wrong, with no proof, just going on past coronaviruses and few hand selected virologists to back them up.

There is no credible evidence the virus was man-made, the consensus of virologists and scientists is that it is natural.

There is no credible evidence that the virus escaped for a lab, however that hypothesis can't be ruled out.

Alternative media is the only way forward, more and more are switching off their TVs and coming over, that's what I am seeing anyway.

Confirmation bias.

People with extreme beliefs will gravitate towards anything that validates those beliefs. Ergo we have "alternative media" which exists due to demand.

alrightjack89

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I don't understand this paragraph.



There is no credible evidence the virus was man-made, the consensus of virologists and scientists is that it is natural.

There is no credible evidence that the virus escaped for a lab, however that hypothesis can't be ruled out.



Confirmation bias.

People with extreme beliefs will gravitate towards anything that validates those beliefs. Ergo we have "alternative media" which exists due to demand.

Where is the evidence it came from nature?

Dohnjoe

alrightjack89 wrote: »

Where is the evidence it came from nature?

Virologists and experts have studied the virus and many have concluded they see no "tell-tale" signs of man-made manipulation. So that means the current scientific consensus is that the virus is natural. Not man-made.

Moving on from that, there are hundreds of coronaviruses, most of which circulate in animals. So far 6 have made the jump to humans. Bats in China alone carry more than 400 Coronaviruses. So it would be rational to conclude there's a high possibility that the disease, like the others, was transmitted from an animal to human. The host animal has not been found yet so this cannot be confirmed.

Likewise, there's a possibility it could have been accidentally leaked from a lab while being studied. There's no credible evidence for this, but it cannot be ruled out.

patnor1011

Deleted User wrote: »

Ye do this constantly in this forum..

I put him on ignore. He first said he think that this is what I wanted to say, then few posts down he claimed I actually said that even though that particular thing came form his own head. That person is constantly twisting what anyone say in order to make you look bad. He is not in for debate as he never acknowledge he was not right or that he was caught in his own lie.
One of those types nobody wants to even sit close in a pub. You know those who are always right no matter how wrong they are.

thecretinhop

https://youtu.be/tH4llWhTslM

Rand paul summary here 3 minutes excellent.

Dohnjoe

patnor1011 wrote: »

I put him on ignore.

Rather than admit you can't address the questions properly you have decided to ignore the person asking the questions.

Timberrrrrrrr

patnor1011 wrote: »

I put him on ignore. He first said he think that this is what I wanted to say, then few posts down he claimed I actually said that even though that particular thing came form his own head. That person is constantly twisting what anyone say in order to make you look bad. He is not in for debate as he never acknowledge he was not right or that he was caught in his own lie.
One of those types nobody wants to even sit close in a pub. You know those who are always right no matter how wrong they are.

No you didn't;)

https://www.bitchute.com/video/8nbm9fMoJ0Bo/ via bitslide


Fauci sounding kind of dodgy in retrospect in 2012..

mcsean2163

alrightjack89 wrote: »

Reading through this thread is quite sad

Every single conversation is killed in its tracks by a poster with his fact checka, that is replying to every post

Can he not let the conspiracy theory guys talk freely without interrupting and go to coronavirus threads where that head in sand behavior is lauded and appreciated

Especially now that lab leak is gaining traction in msm

This topic was originally in coronavirus but was moved to conspiracy. It's appalling, when brainstorming, an open and supportive environment works best. Try everything and see what sticks.

Authoritarian bullies have been stifling dialogue here and elsewhere, hopefully it not too late to have a proper broad investigation so that all angles are covered and the truth discovered.

Dohnjoe

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.bitchute.com/video/8nbm9fMoJ0Bo/ via bitslide


Fauci sounding kind of dodgy in retrospect in 2012..

Interesting to see Fauci take over as the new "boogeyman" from Bill Gates in the conspiracy (and far right) community.

alrightjack89

alrightjack89 wrote: »

Reading through this thread is quite sad

Every single conversation is killed in its tracks by a poster with his fact checka, that is replying to every post

Can he not let the conspiracy theory guys talk freely without interrupting and go to coronavirus threads where that head in sand behavior is lauded and appreciated

Especially now that lab leak is gaining traction in msm

The whole forum is plagued by a cohort of them who obviously believe noone has ever conspired with anyone else to do anything ever..

It is tragic really..
Sadder than the lads that think the earth is flat I reckon..

Dohnjoe

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Interesting to see Fauci take over as the new "boogeyman" from Bill Gates in the conspiracy (and far right) community.

What makes you say that..Has he not been since day one?..

patnor1011

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Rather than admit you can't address the questions properly you have decided to ignore the person asking the questions.

NO. It is not about his "questions". but about his false claims. What happened is that he has said what he think I said then constructed whole tangle of craziness and few posts down he claimed I actually said that. When I pointed out I never said such and it was him who said it he never acknowledged that but kept on pressing on his original false claim while asking his "questions". That is when I decided not to waste my time with people like that.
All he does is asking questions while he never answer any directed at him. It is not just my experience few other people came to the same conclusion. One of the most recent exchanges earned him badge of conspiracy theorists.
It is all here.

Dohnjoe

mcsean2163 wrote: »

This topic was originally in coronavirus but was moved to conspiracy. It's appalling, when brainstorming, an open and supportive environment works best. Try everything and see what sticks.

Authoritarian bullies have been stifling dialogue here and elsewhere, hopefully it not too late to have a proper broad investigation so that all angles are covered and the truth discovered.

The victim card.

Posters who don't like their views challenged pretend they are being persecuted. Often they are in favor of safe spaces and shutting down genuine discussion/debate.

patnor1011

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

No you didn't;)

I did, sadly I still get to see some of his posts when they are quoted by others. There I see he still engage in old tactics which made me to put him on that list of which he is sole occupant and I like it that way.

Dohnjoe

Deleted User wrote: »

The whole forum is plagued by a cohort of them who obviously believe noone has ever conspired with anyone else to do anything ever..

This is a false trope wheeled out all the time here. Conspiracies and collusion happen all the time, it's been stated here countless times, only have to open a newspaper.

Dohnjoe

patnor1011 wrote: »

NO. It is not about his "questions". but about his false claims. What happened is that he has said what he think I said then constructed whole tangle of craziness and few posts down he claimed I actually said that. When I pointed out I never said such and it was him who said it he never acknowledged it but kept on pressing on his original false claim and asked his "questions". That is when I decided not to waste my time with people like that.
All he does is asking questions while he never answer any directed at him. It is not just my experience few other people came to the same conclusion. One of the most recent exchanges earned him badge of conspiracy theorists.
It is all here.

You were being asked reasonable questions in this thread, it could be anyone asking them

Dohnjoe

Dohnjoe wrote: »

This is a false trope wheeled out all the time here. Conspiracies and collusion happen all the time, it's been stated here countless times, only have to open a newspaper.

And why do you think this particular false trope is wheeled out here all the time?..

Anyone wanting to come here to discuss what the forum is supposed to be about is asked to prove their conspiracy theory beyond doubt or else they're abused until they wheel it out and leave the forum..

To the point where trolls* are coming in taking the piss out of ye with extreme profiles and ye all fall over yourselves laughing amongst yourselves at them..

(*may just be a personal conspiracy theory of mine, so may be disregarded..)

Dohnjoe

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyone wanting to come here to discuss what the forum is supposed to be about is asked to prove their conspiracy theory beyond doubt or else they're abused until they wheel it out and leave the forum..

Lol

People come in here with extreme beliefs seeking validation. When those beliefs are challenged they can see it as a personal attack and lash out; labelling the challengers as "shills", playing the victim card, evading simple questions, avoiding detailing their claim, not addressing questions properly, ignoring posters, blaming the mods, attacking science, academic, journalism, and demanding that this forum should just be for people who agree with them

King Mob

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyone wanting to come here to discuss what the forum is supposed to be about is asked to prove their conspiracy theory beyond doubt

No one is being asked to do this.
People are being asked to explain their reasoning and for the evidence that supports their theory.

King Mob

patnor1011 wrote: »

I did, sadly I still get to see some of his posts when they are quoted by others. There I see he still engage in old tactics which made me to put him on that list of which he is sole occupant and I like it that way.

The only person misrepresenting people here is yourself.
No one is "blaming the virus on bat soup".
If there is you are welcome to point out an example of this. Otherwise it would be very dishonest to keep repeating this misrepresentation knowing that you can't support it.

King Mob

alrightjack89 wrote: »

The virus most likely came from a lab, but fact checka will say that's wrong, with no proof, just going on past coronaviruses and few hand selected virologists to back them up.

Ok.
Why do you believe that it's more likely that the virus came from a lab?

King Mob

Deleted User wrote: »

obviously believe noone has ever conspired with anyone else to do anything ever..

I just want to highlight this very dishonest misrepresentation.
This is not a stance anyone holds.

mcsean2163

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And why do you think this particular false trope is wheeled out here all the time?..

Anyone wanting to come here to discuss what the forum is supposed to be about is asked to prove their conspiracy theory beyond doubt or else they're abused until they wheel it out and leave the forum..

To the point where trolls* are coming in taking the piss out of ye with extreme profiles and ye all fall over yourselves laughing amongst yourselves at them..

(*may just be a personal conspiracy theory of mine, so may be disregarded..)

Good points, two in particular are eerily similar.

Still no definitive proof one way or the other on covid19 origins but good to see the media having a more open mind. Awful and surprising to see the latest outbreak in Vietnam. Fingers crossed, it'll be over soon for us

NaFirinne

The latest on this is now it's being slowly revealled that COVID-19 ‘has NO credible natural ancestor’ and WAS created by Chinese scientists who then tried to cover their tracks with ‘retro-engineering’ to make it seem like it naturally arose from bats.

Dohnjoe

NaFirinne wrote: »

The latest on this is now it's being slowly revealled that COVID-19 ‘has NO credible natural ancestor’ and WAS created by Chinese scientists who then tried to cover their tracks with ‘retro-engineering’ to make it seem like it naturally arose from bats.

Source?

King Mob

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Source?

That is the headline copied pretty much verbatim from the Daily Mail.
It's about a study that has not actually been realised yet.

Dohnjoe

mcsean2163 wrote: »

Good points, two in particular are eerily similar.

Still no definitive proof one way or the other on covid19 origins but good to see the media having a more open mind. Awful and surprising to see the latest outbreak in Vietnam. Fingers crossed, it'll be over soon for us

Repeatedly suggests the virus came from a lab "It could be either, we have to see".

Dohnjoe

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Repeatedly suggests the virus came from a lab "It could be either, we have to see".

I just skimmed back through all his posts on this thread and from day one he's seemed fairly reasonable and been bringing up scientific evidence and just saying it should be looked at..

We're not all as dogmatic as your good self..

The entire philosophical basis of science is to question these things..Orwell, it used to be..

King Mob

Deleted User wrote: »

I just skimmed back through all his posts on this thread and from day one he's seemed fairly reasonable and been bringing up scientific evidence and just saying it should be looked at..

We're not all as dogmatic as your good self..

The entire philosophical basis of science is to question these things..Orwell, it used to be..

And more misrepresenting.

Please show an example of dohnjoe or anyone else being "dogmatic".

King Mob

King Mob wrote: »

And more misrepresenting.

Please show an example of dohnjoe or anyone else being "dogmatic".

Well..ye were all quite dogmatic that it didn't come from a lab until last week..Ye're all fairly dogmatic the election was definitely the most transparent election ever..the same posters are consistently fairly dogmatic across the forum..

If ye weren't dogmatic ye would be more open to these things before shouting them down..Instead ye're just a mob/chorus of "where's your evidence"..

Where was your evidence it was a naturally occurring virus?..In retrospect might that have been in error would you say?..

NSAman

With all this re-newed investigations into the origin, no one has asked the question:

If it can be linked to an experiment that went wrong (which I have always held as the cause) what will happen?

Dohnjoe

Deleted User wrote: »

Well..ye were all quite dogmatic that it didn't come from a lab until last week..

Horse****, I wrote months ago that it couldn't be ruled out

Ye're all fairly dogmatic the election was definitely the most transparent election ever..the same posters are consistently fairly dogmatic across the forum..

Where did I write this?

Where was your evidence it was a naturally occurring virus?..In retrospect might that have been in error would you say?..

I've written it multiple times.

How is it an error? you are agreeing with someone who is claiming that it could be natural or it could be a lab-leak, are you forgetting that part?

King Mob

King Mob wrote: »

That is the headline copied pretty much verbatim from the Daily Mail.
It's about a study that has not actually been realised yet.

The same claims and research were cited by a telegraph podcast back in 2020

https://fullfact.org/health/richard-dearlove-coronavirus-claims/

King Mob

Deleted User wrote: »

Well..ye were all quite dogmatic that it didn't come from a lab until last week..

Cool. Show this is the case then.
Provide some quotes.

Deleted User wrote: »

Where was your evidence it was a naturally occurring virus?..In retrospect might that have been in error would you say?..

I've posted it several times. I provided several studies that support the zoonotic origins of the virus.
With one exception the response to those studies was to declare them fraudulent, not peer reviewed and that scientific studies themselves are actually useless.

King Mob

King Mob wrote: »

With one exception the response to those studies was to declare them fraudulent, not peer reviewed and that scientific studies themselves are actually useless.

Quote these so..

The second half of your post answered your first question..

The whole point is that there can be questions about these things..

Has it not been said recently by Dr Fauci that there's no actual evidence for a zoonotic origin?..It's just a hypothesis..There's no evidence of an animal with it..

So there should be questions asked about your studies..

King Mob

Deleted User wrote: »

Quote these so..

You first thanks. Please support your claims that anyone is being dogmatic.

Deleted User wrote: »

The second half of your post answered your first question..

Lol no it doesn't.

Saying "heres some studies that support one idea" is not dogmatic by any definition.

Deleted User wrote: »

Has it not been said recently by Dr Fauci that there's no actual evidence for a zoonotic origin?..It's just a hypothesis..There's no evidence of an animal with it..

Nope. That's not what he said.
Misrepresentation again I fear.

Deleted User wrote: »

So there should be questions asked about your studies..

Sure. But randomly throwing out suggestions of fraud and conspiracy with no evidence is not "questioning".

Who was saying they were fraudulent?..

So do you think Trump was way ahead of the game saying it came out of the lab?..

King Mob

Deleted User wrote: »

Who was saying they were fraudulent?..

So do you think Trump was way ahead of the game saying it came out of the lab?..

Sorry, you are dodging my questions.

I asked you to back up your accusations that we are being dogmatic.
You are now trying to change the subject to avoid doing this.

If you can't back up your accusations please just say so.

dogmatic
/dɒɡˈmatɪk/

adjective
inclined to lay down principles as undeniably true.
"she was not tempted to be dogmatic about what she believed"


It's self evidently true across the forum..
Every thread just descends into ye haranguing anyone who might think there may be something to some conspiracy theory..

Unicorn Milk Latte

So, conspiracy theorists say that SARS-COV-2 is a bioweapon created in a lab.
And they say, it's no worse than the flu, effectively harmless, we really do not need lockdowns and masks.
And they say, there is no pandemic.
And they say the death toll is comparatively minuscule.

So, trying to understand this - they tried to create a bioweapon, but are really bad at their job?

Dohnjoe

Deleted User wrote: »

dogmatic
/dɒɡˈmatɪk/

adjective
inclined to lay down principles as undeniably true.
"she was not tempted to be dogmatic about what she believed"


It's self evidently true across the forum..
Every thread just descends into ye haranguing anyone who might think there may be something to some conspiracy theory..

You just made a bunch of false assumptions about me, then didn't address the post.

King Mob

Deleted User wrote: »

dogmatic
/dɒɡˈmatɪk/

adjective
inclined to lay down principles as undeniably true.
"she was not tempted to be dogmatic about what she believed"

Yes. I know what the word means.
It does not mean "here's a study that supports the idea."

Please provide a quote of any of use saying that the zoonotic origins are undeniably true.

If you can't in your next post, we'll accept it that you aren't able to and move on.
No point in chasing you down on it when it's obvious you can't back up your false accusation.