Covid-19 likely to be man made

King Mob

Unicorn Milk Latte wrote: »

So, conspiracy theorists say that SARS-COV-2 is a bioweapon created in a lab.
And they say, it's no worse than the flu, effectively harmless, we really do not need lockdowns and masks.
And they say, there is no pandemic.
And they say the death toll is comparatively minuscule.

So, trying to understand this - they tried to create a bioweapon, but are really bad at their job?

I suspect that if the lab origin theory gets more accepted the conspiracies are going to start shifting.
We're going to start hearing how the death toll was actually really bad and that the government were actually hiding the true death toll to cover up the bioweapon thing.

King Mob

King Mob wrote: »

Yes. I know what the word means.
It does not mean "here's a study that supports the idea."

Please provide a quote of any of use saying that the zoonotic origins are undeniably true.

If you can't in your next post, we'll accept it that you aren't able to and move on.
No point in chasing you down on it when it's obvious you can't back up your false accusation.

I was just looking back over a few of your posts on this thread a while ago..you seem extremely passive aggressive..practically every post is "prove it, quote it, or you can't.." or accusations of whatever..

You come across as a bit of a psycho to be honest..

King Mob

Deleted User wrote: »

I was just looking back over a few of your posts on this thread a while ago..you seem extremely passive aggressive..practically every post is "prove it, quote it, or you can't.." or accusations of whatever..

You come across as a bit of a psycho to be honest..

Cool. Can't provide any support to your accusations.
Your accusations are therefore false.

And yes unfortunately I have to ask people to back up their claims repeatedly, as like you have demonstrated, they will often dodge and ignore rather than just admit that they can't.

No one here has said that the zoonotic origin is undeniably true.
No one here has said that the lab origin is impossible.

patnor1011

Dohnjoe wrote: »

And there it is, "science". A universal method put in inverted commas.

It is in commas precisely because there is zero evidence it jumped species. And with a closer look a lot of scientists agree that it is much less plausible explanation than lab leak. They were dismissed as conspiracy theorists as was everyone who dared to question Wuhan wet market bat soup connoisseurs theory.

King Mob

patnor1011 wrote: »

Wuhan wet market bat soup connoisseurs theory.

And there is that same dishonest misrepresentation again.

emo72

What we do know, is that they were definitely working on covid type virus in Wuhan. My money is on accidental release due to safety protocols being lax.

I find that more believable than it coming from animals naturally because they haven't found the link. They found the source of MERS and SARS handily enough, but not this time in spite of it being in CCPs and American scientists who were working in Wuhan lab best interests to do so.

Obviously I offer no proof, nobody has any! But you know it's not a far out conspiracy theory, it's quite a logical view point going on the info we have so far.

I hope my opinion doesn't upset anyone.

astrofool

It was always the funny thing about trump trying to pin the blame on China while China had virtually no cases and the US pandemic was out of control.

"So, they defeated you then donald?".

astrofool

emo72 wrote: »

What we do know, is that they were definitely working on covid type virus in Wuhan. My money is on accidental release due to safety protocols being lax.

I find that more believable than it coming from animals naturally because they haven't found the link. They found the source of MERS and SARS handily enough, but not this time in spite of it being in CCPs and American scientists who were working in Wuhan lab best interests to do so.

Obviously I offer no proof, nobody has any! But you know it's not a far out conspiracy theory, it's quite a logical view point going on the info we have so far.

I hope my opinion doesn't upset anyone.

There are numerous new viruses discovered each year, most don't spread too far or have negligible symptoms, SARS and MERS were 2 similar virus discovered this century so it wasn't unlikely that there would be more.

Now, the question is why SARS-COV2 would be a lab leak and all those other virus occurred naturally? Are lab leaks happening frequently, but they're usually harmless, or do they happen a lot and we just got unlucky this time?

Remember to separate the impact of the virus from the origin of the virus and then examine the situation. It's the impact of the virus that has people coming up with all sorts of theories for SARS-COV2, but ignoring all the other new virus discovered each year that have little impact.

Dohnjoe

emo72 wrote: »

Obviously I offer no proof, nobody has any! But you know it's not a far out conspiracy theory, it's quite a logical view point going on the info we have so far.

Last year conspiracy theorists were peddling that the virus was created in a lab, and/or it was released as a "bioweapon". Many have since diluted that view down. Basically they'll always gravitate towards the conspiracy theory, whatever it is.

Likewise other conspiracy theorists are claiming the pandemic is fake, that Covid doesn't exist, that it's been created by the NWO, by the "elites", you name it, every bonkers contradictory theory you can imagine - if it turns out that Covid is natural but accidentally escaped from a lab in China, all of those conspiracy theorists, even the ones who deny Covid exists, will celebrate they were "right" all along.

It's not rational behaviour

Mic 1972

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Source?

you can find plenty of material in the usual places
the news is slowly making into way onto the mainstream

Mic 1972

NSAman wrote: »

With all this re-newed investigations into the origin, no one has asked the question:

If it can be linked to an experiment that went wrong (which I have always held as the cause) what will happen?

probably nothing, no government is going to go against China

Dohnjoe

Mic 1972 wrote: »

you can find plenty of material in the usual places the news is slowly making into way onto the mainstream

No, I'm not finding any credible source at all for the below.

The latest on this is now it's being slowly revealled that COVID-19 ‘has NO credible natural ancestor’ and WAS created by Chinese scientists who then tried to cover their tracks with ‘retro-engineering’ to make it seem like it naturally arose from bats.

Checking conspiracy sites; it's not real, it's real, it's natural, it's man-made, it's a bioweapon, it's created by the Chinese, it's created by the NWO, by the Elites, etc, etc, etc. The usual mish-mash of random made-up stuff. So I suspect that's the source.

mcsean2163

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I was just looking back over a few of your posts on this thread a while ago..you seem extremely passive aggressive..practically every post is "prove it, quote it, or you can't.." or accusations of whatever..

You come across as a bit of a psycho to be honest..

Two in particular seem very similar especially when angry. Psycho seems extreme but perhaps some assistance with their mental health would go a long way.

I find it irritating how they label someone asking a question as a conspiracy theorist. I worked for a company where questions and knowledge sharing were discouraged, it's bust, €70 million gone.

Labelling and then shouting done someone with a question is bullying in my book. However, I expect bullies may need help with their mental health too and perhaps even more so than those that are being bullied. In a functioning society, I believe it's very important that people engaging in bullying behaviour get that help too so they can learn and correct their behaviour.

Hopefully 2021 will be a less polarised year with better transparency on all aspects of the origin of covid19.

mcsean2163

mcsean2163 wrote: »

Two in particular seem very similar especially when angry.

Haha..
One or two do seem like they're almost the same person at times alright..
It's like talking to the borg..

Reminiscent of the struggle sessions of old..

Although what with the CIA releasing UFO footage, and Fauci saying it could have come from the lab, it's probably a difficult time for them..

King Mob

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Last year conspiracy theorists were peddling that the virus was created in a lab, and/or it was released as a "bioweapon". Many have since diluted that view down. Basically they'll always gravitate towards the conspiracy theory, whatever it is.

Likewise other conspiracy theorists are claiming the pandemic is fake, that Covid doesn't exist, that it's been created by the NWO, by the "elites", you name it, every bonkers contradictory theory you can imagine - if it turns out that Covid is natural but accidentally escaped from a lab in China, all of those conspiracy theorists, even the ones who deny Covid exists, will celebrate they were "right" all along.

It's not rational behaviour

And already we're seeing folks telling us we've been proved wrong when we said that the lab origin idea was impossible: a position we've never actually held or said and which we stated the opposite of many times.

The word Orwellian is getting bandied about a lot lately, which is weird given how this is going on.

People know that we never said that, they know they can't support their accusation. Yet they will rewrite history anyway.

mcsean2163

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Haha..
One or two do seem like they're almost the same person at times alright..
It's like talking to the borg..

Reminiscent of the struggle sessions of old..

Although what with the CIA releasing UFO footage, and Fauci saying it could have come from the lab, it's probably a difficult time for them..

It's a good move by Biden and no doubt is placating a lot of people in the US.

IMHO, It's easy for someone to upset someone by attacking something dear to them. I doubt many posters here would have the courage to down to castlebar and tell the young lads there that their mother is a slut.

There are some here that take a particular pleasure in upsetting people and making them look foolish. I reckon they might fancy themselves as cult busters or super detectives.

In my experience, listening to someone is the starting place and respectful discussion the first step if someone is gone off the deep end, (I'm thinking of someone in particular). Sneering and deriding someone is unhelpful and a sinister way of asserting supposed superiority and a despicable way of deriving pleasure from the misery of others.

I'm not well acquainted with conspiracy theories at all.

In the case of covid19, as someone from a stem background, I found it illogical to rule out a lab leak. As time has gone on, various conflicts of interest have been revealed and it seems that only now, that a potential for an unbiased investigation exists, which is shocking.

timmyntc

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Last year conspiracy theorists were peddling that the virus was created in a lab, and/or it was released as a "bioweapon". Many have since diluted that view down. Basically they'll always gravitate towards the conspiracy theory, whatever it is.

Likewise other conspiracy theorists are claiming the pandemic is fake, that Covid doesn't exist, that it's been created by the NWO, by the "elites", you name it, every bonkers contradictory theory you can imagine - if it turns out that Covid is natural but accidentally escaped from a lab in China, all of those conspiracy theorists, even the ones who deny Covid exists, will celebrate they were "right" all along.

It's not rational behaviour

"Conspiracy theorists" is a massive strawman. Who decides who is a theorist? Does it depend on what they say? Or the time of day?

Trump was a conspiracy theorist when he said virus may have come from a lab - but Biden is not for making the same statement. Its a totally arbitrary label.

My point is, plenty of people said that the virus leaked from a lab in Wuhan - not that it was a bioengineered superweapon or whatever. You are just as guilty of re-writing the past that you are accusing conspiracy theorists of.

if something comes out to vindicate their claim, you will likely say that you knew that was the case, but that their claims were something else more outlandish so they are still wrong. Putting words in their mouths. Total pedantry.

Mic 1972

Dohnjoe wrote: »

No, I'm not finding any credible source at all for the below.



Checking conspiracy sites; it's not real, it's real, it's natural, it's man-made, it's a bioweapon, it's created by the Chinese, it's created by the NWO, by the Elites, etc, etc, etc. The usual mish-mash of random made-up stuff. So I suspect that's the source.

If conspiracy sites are your source of information I guess you answered your own question

King Mob

timmyntc wrote: »

"Conspiracy theorists" is a massive strawman. Who decides who is a theorist? Does it depend on what they say? Or the time of day?

Trump was a conspiracy theorist when he said virus may have come from a lab - but Biden is not for making the same statement. Its a totally arbitrary label.

He was also claiming that the virus wasn't a big deal and that it could be treated with aquarium cleaner.
He later claimed that the election was stolen via non-existent voter fraud.
He has also claimed that that China invented the concept of global warming.
He also claimed that Obama wasn't born in the US.

He's a serial liar who has repeatedly claimed false things without evidence and promoted all manner of conspiracy theories when they suit him.
I doubt very much he believes half the stuff he claims, but he claims it and uses it to appeal to a particular base.

What information was Trump basing his lab origin claims on though?
How do we know that it wasn't just some random bull**** he plucked out of the air like those other things that just happened to be closer to reality than usual?
Stopped clocks and all that.

timmyntc wrote: »

My point is, plenty of people said that the virus leaked from a lab in Wuhan - not that it was a bioengineered superweapon or whatever. You are just as guilty of re-writing the past that you are accusing conspiracy theorists of.

Very few people here have done so however.
Of the few conspiracy theorists who have directly stated their opinions, few keep their beliefs to "it might be a natural virus that escaped".
But we've had tons of examples of people claiming that it's a "plandemic", that the virus was meant to be a bioweapon and that it's somehow not very deadly.

Just pick a thread and have a read.

timmyntc

King Mob wrote: »

He was also claiming that the virus wasn't a big deal and that it could be treated with aquarium cleaner.
He later claimed that the election was stolen via non-existent voter fraud.
He has also claimed that that China invented the concept of global warming.
He also claimed that Obama wasn't born in the US.

He's a serial liar who has repeatedly claimed false things without evidence and promoted all manner of conspiracy theories when they suit him.
I doubt very much he believes half the stuff he claims, but he claims it and uses it to appeal to a particular base.

What information was Trump basing his lab origin claims on though?
How do we know that it wasn't just some random bull**** he plucked out of the air like those other things that just happened to be closer to reality than usual?
Stopped clocks and all that.

Very few people here have done so however.
Of the few conspiracy theorists who have directly stated their opinions, few keep their beliefs to "it might be a natural virus that escaped".
But we've had tons of examples of people claiming that it's a "plandemic", that the virus was meant to be a bioweapon and that it's somehow not very deadly.

Just pick a thread and have a read.

There is an element of stopped clocks and all that with your posts too it seems. You throw out tonnes of accusations and slurs at people, then if evidence comes out to debunk some of those, you will claim you always knew - and ignore the times you were proven wrong.

These threads, like most have a wide spectrum of opinion. Some are mental, some are tame, some are in between. Last year there was quite a bit of chatter about the "coincidence" of the Wuhan virology lab, its proximity to the wet market, and whistleblowers claiming they were contaminated with infected material in the lab.
There was also past statements about how the Wuhan lab were investigating bat coronaviruses from central China in years gone by.

But at the time yourself and others labelled it all total conspiracy BS. And now that the new US admin are supporting the theory in part at least, now you're on damage control and trying to misrepresent other posters, claiming that everyone was on the "plandemic" bandwagon.

King Mob

timmyntc wrote: »

You throw out tonnes of accusations and slurs at people, then if evidence comes out to debunk some of those, you will claim you always knew - and ignore the times you were proven wrong.

Ok. What accusations and slurs are you referring to?
What have I been "proven wrong" about?
What have I ignored?

timmyntc wrote: »

These threads, like most have a wide spectrum of opinion. Some are mental, some are tame, some are in between.

And I'm sure that if I used a term like "mental" I would be accused of using a slur.

What theories do you class as "mental"?

timmyntc wrote: »

But at the time yourself and others labelled it all total conspiracy BS.

No, I didn't. This is a misrepresentation.
Please provide a quote to support this accusation.

timmyntc wrote: »

And now that the new US admin are supporting the theory in part at least, now you're on damage control and trying to misrepresent other posters, claiming that everyone was on the "plandemic" bandwagon.

And that's also a misrepresenation. I did not say or claim that.
I stated my position on this in my last post, yet with what I actually said right there, you are claiming I said something I didn't.

Also, you seem to have missed my question in my post in all those false accusations. Maybe you could try answering it again?

Dohnjoe

timmyntc wrote: »

"Conspiracy theorists" is a massive strawman.

Semantics.

I was referring to people who believe in extreme conspiracies, who are often referred to as a "conspiracy theorists", by just about everyone. If you want to pull that up every time it's mentioned on this forum, good luck.

This thread is about Covid 19 being "manmade", for which there is no credible evidence and the current consensus is that it's natural. I have repeatedly said a lab-leak cannot be ruled out.

Dohnjoe

Mic 1972 wrote: »

If conspiracy sites are your source of information I guess you answered your own question

Someone posted a claim, I asked for the source of it, they haven't provided.

If no one can post a credible source with valid information, then we have no reason to belief it has any truth

Yellow_Fern

Mike Pompeo vindicated

When US president Joe Biden last week ordered US intelligence to intensify efforts to determine the origins of Covid-19, he gave fresh life to the theory that the virus may have leaked from the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

Biden said US intelligence had “coalesced around two scenarios” – that the virus had either emerged naturally or was the result of a lab accident.

It was the first time that the president had given credence to the possibility that the virus had leaked from a lab – a notion widely slammed as a conspiracy theory when Donald Trump first made the claim.

Current and former officials said there were several reasons why the Biden administration was willing to publicly entertain a theory that Democrats had once slammed.

A crucial factor was that critics were more open to the lab-leak theory now that Trump, who was viewed as wanting to vilify China to deflect blame for his handling of the pandemic, was out of office.

They also said Biden was reacting to what the intelligence had found. He is now under political pressure to find answers.

“The Biden administration has now studied the mountain of disturbing evidence that we were confronted with in the last few months of the Trump administration,” said David Asher, who led a state department investigation into the origins of Covid. “It is jaw dropping. And as they have noted, a great deal more needs to be assessed.”

Days before Biden was sworn in, the state department issued a fact sheet on the Wuhan institute that said several researchers had fallen ill with Covid-like symptoms before the first publicly known case. It also said the institute had worked secretly with the Chinese military.

Critics did not take the claim seriously because of the view that thren secretary of state Mike Pompeo tended to politicise intelligence. People were also focused on the aftermath of the riots on January 6th and Biden’s inauguration.

The Irish Times view on the source of Covid-19: The world needs to know the truth
China dismisses US call for investigation into Covid lab leak
WHO says China withheld data during Covid probe in Wuhan
“We assumed the fact sheet wasn’t going to make immediate headlines. We wanted to put the information into the record so that people could reckon with these facts when tensions and fevers had dropped,” said David Feith, a former state department official who was involved in the release.

Lab-leak theory
In March, Asher said publicly that some Wuhan staff were so sick they were hospitalised. That and a recent Wall Street Journal story that three staff were hospitalised, helped focus attention on the lab-leak theory.

But one person familiar with the debate said the driving factor was a shift among scientists who had been wary of helping Trump before the election or angering influential scientists who had dismissed the theory. He said this had helped make Democrats more willing to consider the theory.

“The most important thing that has happened is that prominent virologists have since spoken out,” he said.

In a letter to the Science journal, a group of 18 prominent scientists said both theories were “viable” and should be taken “seriously” until sufficient data were obtained. They said the recent investigation that the World Health Organisation conducted with China had not given balanced consideration to both scenarios.

“Even those of us working the issue inside the government were not well aware of how much scientific opinion was on our side because scientists were generally not speaking up, but you have had certain dams break over the past few months,” said Feith, referring to developments including the letter and the WHO investigation.

Anthony Fauci, head of the US National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, also appeared to change his stance. Last year, he said the science “strongly indicates” the virus emerged naturally, but he recently said he was “not convinced” and backed an investigation.

While Biden was just outlining the view of the intelligence community in his highly unusual statement, his willingness to make their tentative conclusions public also shone more attention on the lab-leak theory.

Mathew Burrows, a former senior intelligence official, said he could not remember a president making such a statement, saying they have historically not wanted to be viewed as trying to force a conclusion.

“There are obviously Republicans who are trying to criticise anything that would seem to be a weak response to China, so I think Biden wants to show that he will not shy away from charging them [China] if there is united agreement in the intelligence community on the fact that the virus came out of the Wuhan lab,” Burrows said.

Political pressure
Mike Gallagher, a Republican congressman who has introduced a bill to declassify all the intelligence related to the investigation, also said that Biden appeared to be responding to political pressure, particularly after members of his team called on China to allow a transparent investigation – something few experts believe Beijing will allow.

“Biden was feeling the pressure,” said Gallagher. “They felt a little bit of blowback ... but it’s a good move.”

One person familiar with the situation said the National Intelligence Council, which collates information from the entire intelligence community, produced two reports last year assessing US intelligence on the origins of Covid. The director for national intelligence declined to comment.

Those efforts, coupled with a third “scrub” of the intelligence this year, led to Biden saying last week that two of the 18 branches of the intelligence community leaned towards the natural origin scenario, while a third was more inclined towards the lab-leak theory.

Biden said the three had only “low or moderate confidence” in their conclusions while the other branches did not have enough evidence. That has sparked concern that 90 days is not sufficient for intelligence officials to reach any solid determination.

“The community as a whole is far away from reaching anything that we could call even a halfway firm conclusion,” said Paul Pillar, a former senior CIA official. “The fact that many of the agencies involved have not reached a consensus even for a ‘low confidence’ judgment tells you they’re a long way away from anything conclusive.”– Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2021

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/how-joe-biden-came-around-to-the-wuhan-lab-leak-theory-1.4579879

harrylittle

Dohnjoe wrote: »

No, I'm not finding any credible source at all for the below.



Checking conspiracy sites; it's not real, it's real, it's natural, it's man-made, it's a bioweapon, it's created by the Chinese, it's created by the NWO, by the Elites, etc, etc, etc. The usual mish-mash of random made-up stuff. So I suspect that's the source.

try this source .. plenty of quotes ... references ... diagrames etc ..

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/virologists-claim-fingerprints-manipulation-prove-covid-19-man-made-no-credible-natural

King Mob

harrylittle wrote: »

try this source .. plenty of quotes ... references ... diagrames etc ..

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/virologists-claim-fingerprints-manipulation-prove-covid-19-man-made-no-credible-natural

We've been linked to this place before.
It's a far right crank site.

No one is going to take a propaganda piece from it seriously.

harrylittle

King Mob wrote: »

We've been linked to this place before.
It's a far right crank site.

No one is going to take a propaganda piece from it seriously.

yes i thought you would

Man Vs ManUre

Maybe it was made by the Devil.

King Mob

harrylittle wrote: »

yes i thought you would

Well yea, if you're going to link dump a crank site instead of an actual source, people are going to call that fact out.

I'm going to predict that you are now going to run away without defending your crank site or any of your claims, then you'll be back later to dump another crank link and repeat the same thing.

mcsean2163

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Mike Pompeo vindicated

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/how-joe-biden-came-around-to-the-wuhan-lab-leak-theory-1.4579879

Yes, it's weird how old news has been recently represented as new news.

Days before Biden was sworn in, the state department issued a fact sheet on the Wuhan institute that said several researchers had fallen ill with Covid-like symptoms before the first publicly known case. It also said the institute had worked secretly with the Chinese military.

harrylittle

King Mob wrote: »

Well yea, if you're going to link dump a crank site instead of an actual source, people are going to call that fact out.

I'm going to predict that you are now going to run away without defending your crank site or any of your claims, then you'll be back later to dump another crank link and repeat the same thing.

not every one thinks its a crank site in fact quite the opposite ...apart from a few extreme left wing ideologists ... most folk reckon its a great site

Geuze

Mic 1972 wrote: »

If conspiracy sites are your source of information I guess you answered your own question

A few weeks ago, on the Marginal Revolution blog, there was a link to a discussion of the lab leak theory.

It is a reasoned discussion, not ranting by conspiracy loons.

Of course, I can't find it now.



I recall it discussed the safety level of the Wuhan lab.

BSL1 to BSL 4?

It was working on coronavirus with just BSL2 safety, rather than level 3.


Also, the article discussed that the source may not have been deliberate, i.e. an employee of the lab may have mistakenly released it.

King Mob

harrylittle wrote: »

not every one thinks its a crank site in fact quite the opposite ...apart from a few extreme left wing ideologists ... most folk reckon its a great site

Yes, I'm sure they do.
However, they are the fringe.

Some people also think infowars is a grand old place too.

And lol "extreme left wing ideologists":rolleyes:

Dohnjoe

mcsean2163 wrote: »

Yes, it's weird how old news has been recently represented as new news.

Days before Biden was sworn in, the state department issued a fact sheet on the Wuhan institute that said several researchers had fallen ill with Covid-like symptoms before the first publicly known case. It also said the institute had worked secretly with the Chinese military.

As the previous article suggests: few took the information seriously. A side-effect of consistent politicised lies, especially Trump who is clocked in with thousands of falsehoods.

The Nal

harrylittle wrote: »

not every one thinks its a crank site in fact quite the opposite ...apart from a few extreme left wing ideologists ... most folk reckon its a great site

lol FFS. Did a survey of "most folk" did you?

Dohnjoe

harrylittle wrote: »

try this source .. plenty of quotes ... references ... diagrames etc ..

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/virologists-claim-fingerprints-manipulation-prove-covid-19-man-made-no-credible-natural

It's a nonsense financial doomsday conspiracy blog.

Timberrrrrrrr

harrylittle wrote: »

not every one thinks its a crank site in fact quite the opposite ...apart from a few extreme left wing ideologists ... most folk reckon its a great site

I see you have abandoned your ridiculous thread claiming that vaccine is "magnetic" since it was pointed out that US coins are made from non Ferrous metals and therefore would never be attracted to a magnet.

If you have abandoned that notion why should anyone believe anything else you claim or link to about the vaccines/virus?

robinph

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I see you have abandoned your ridiculous thread claiming that vaccine is "magnetic" since it was pointed out that US coins are made from non Ferrous metals and therefore would never be attracted to a magnet.

If you have abandoned that notion why should anyone believe anything else you claim or link to about the vaccines/virus?

Which goes to prove that they don't even bother to read the articles they post, the most recent one included stuff about the virus itself being magnetic. Would have expected them to be jumping all over those lines from the article saying that it was proof of something or other.

That train of thought probably hasn't been included in their script which they copy and paste from yet though so may take another day or so before it gets repeated here.

Yellow_Fern

Dohnjoe wrote: »

As the previous article suggests: few took the information seriously. A side-effect of consistent politicised lies, especially Trump who is clocked in with thousands of falsehoods.

They were fools not too. The information was circulating long before Trump mentioned it.

All US presidents lie. No one counted any other presidents lies. So its a pointless claim to make.

mcsean2163 wrote: »

Yes, it's weird how old news has been recently represented as new news.

Days before Biden was sworn in, the state department issued a fact sheet on the Wuhan institute that said several researchers had fallen ill with Covid-like symptoms before the first publicly known case. It also said the institute had worked secretly with the Chinese military.

The evidence of a Wuhan institute connection isn't new. What is news is that Facebook, MSM and the Irish Times etc tolerate it as a point of discussion.

quickbeam

harrylittle wrote: »

try this source .. plenty of quotes ... references ... diagrames etc ..

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/virologists-claim-fingerprints-manipulation-prove-covid-19-man-made-no-credible-natural

Mod: Link dumping & spamming. No posting in thread again.

realdanbreen

NaFirinne wrote: »

Various scientists have now come out and said that it's very likely that Covid 19 is a man made virus.


In April we have the French Nobel Price winning Scientist Luc Montagnier claiming that the SARS-CoV-2 virus came from a lab, and is the result of an attempt to manufacture a vaccine against the AIDS virus.


French Nobel prize winning scientist has sparked a fresh controversy by claiming that the SARS-CoV-2 virus came from a lab, and is the result of an attempt to manufacture a vaccine against the AIDS virus.


In May we have Australian Scientists at Latrobe University in Melbourne basically explaining how nearly impossible that such a virus has occurred naturally in Nature.


In Augest we have the President of the World academy of Biomedical Sciences and Technologies publishing a book called COVID 19: La Chimera che ha cambiato il Mondo (China COVID 19: The chimera that changed the world).


In the book he demonstrates how the PLA-owned coronavirus was genetically modified to become the Covid 19 virus which is now ravaging the world.



He also links the Wuhan Lab to France and the US as they both provided financial and scientific aid to the Chinese as they conducted more dangerous bio engineering experiments.



He does advise that while they might have collaborated that they are not responsible for the end result but it might be the reason why so many insist that the virus must come from nature as the last thing they would want to admit is that they had a hand in creating it.


He also advises that in vaccine development, reverse genetics is used to create viral strains that have reduced pathogenicity to which the immune system responds by creating antibodies against the virus. Reverse genetics can also be used to create viral strains that have increased pathongenicity thus becoming bio weapons. This type of research is considered too dangerous by the west which is why it was shifted to China.


China has refused to give the completed genome of the virus to Who and other countries as according to Dr. Tritto doing so would mean admitting that the virus was created in a laboratory. He concludes from this that any companies that are developing a vaccines will never be 100% effective and at most be able to cover at best 4-5 strains.



This is why you get companies saying that their vaccines is only 50% effective, as the maximum they could get to is maybe 70-75% effective.


So basically china by withholding the genetic code of the virus that it created ensures that no completely effective vaccine will ever be created in the West.


I'm interested to know what your guys views on this?


Should these scientists be ignored as crackpots just seeking media attention and what they are saying is so completely crazy that it can't be true.



Or should we listen to them and actually investigate what is really going on in the World.


Is an actual investigation into these things actually impossible with so many powerful invested interests that are going to make billions out of this?


Why are the media so quick to silence and ridicule people who dare to question these things?

So, it originated in a lab. Knock yourself out!

Mic 1972

[QUOTE=NaFirinne;117318905] Various scientists have now come out and said that it's very likely that Covid 19 is a man made virus.


In April we have the French Nobel Price winning Scientist Luc Montagnier claiming that the SARS-CoV-2 virus came from a lab, and is the result of an attempt to manufacture a vaccine against the AIDS virus.


French Nobel prize winning scientist has sparked a fresh controversy by claiming that the SARS-CoV-2 virus came from a lab, and is the result of an attempt to manufacture a vaccine against the AIDS virus.


In May we have Australian Scientists at Latrobe University in Melbourne basically explaining how nearly impossible that such a virus has occurred naturally in Nature.


In Augest we have the President of the World academy of Biomedical Sciences and Technologies publishing a book called COVID 19: La Chimera che ha cambiato il Mondo (China COVID 19: The chimera that changed the world).


In the book he demonstrates how the PLA-owned coronavirus was genetically modified to become the Covid 19 virus which is now ravaging the world.



He also links the Wuhan Lab to France and the US as they both provided financial and scientific aid to the Chinese as they conducted more dangerous bio engineering experiments.



He does advise that while they might have collaborated that they are not responsible for the end result but it might be the reason why so many insist that the virus must come from nature as the last thing they would want to admit is that they had a hand in creating it.


He also advises that in vaccine development, reverse genetics is used to create viral strains that have reduced pathogenicity to which the immune system responds by creating antibodies against the virus. Reverse genetics can also be used to create viral strains that have increased pathongenicity thus becoming bio weapons. This type of research is considered too dangerous by the west which is why it was shifted to China.


China has refused to give the completed genome of the virus to Who and other countries as according to Dr. Tritto doing so would mean admitting that the virus was created in a laboratory. He concludes from this that any companies that are developing a vaccines will never be 100% effective and at most be able to cover at best 4-5 strains.



This is why you get companies saying that their vaccines is only 50% effective, as the maximum they could get to is maybe 70-75% effective.


So basically china by withholding the genetic code of the virus that it created ensures that no completely effective vaccine will ever be created in the West.


I'm interested to know what your guys views on this?


Should these scientists be ignored as crackpots just seeking media attention and what they are saying is so completely crazy that it can't be true.



Or should we listen to them and actually investigate what is really going on in the World.


Is an actual investigation into these things actually impossible with so many powerful invested interests that are going to make billions out of this?


Why are the media so quick to silence and ridicule people who dare to question these things?
[/QUOTE]


Thank you for taking the time to put this together. it's a pity that a bunch of people are acting like it's still 2020.

Dohnjoe

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

All US presidents lie. No one counted any other presidents lies. So its a pointless claim to make.

Ah the "everyone lies" chestnut trotted out. The Trump admin as a deliverer of "trustworthy" info was up there with Putin and Xi Jinping. They weren't taken seriously outside their base, and much less so around the world.

The first investigation has determined that the "lab-accident" theory is extremely unlikely. But it couldn't determine the natural link either (finding the zoonotic link is like looking for a needle in a haystack)

We'll see what the latest US investigation shows up, but I suspect this is something we may never know due to the complexities involved and China's extreme secrecy and state control.

astrofool

NaFirinne wrote: »

Various scientists have now come out and said that it's very likely that Covid 19 is a man made virus.

This means nothing without evidence, these are opinions.

NaFirinne wrote: »

In April we have the French Nobel Price winning Scientist Luc Montagnier claiming that the SARS-CoV-2 virus came from a lab, and is the result of an attempt to manufacture a vaccine against the AIDS virus.

French Nobel prize winning scientist has sparked a fresh controversy by claiming that the SARS-CoV-2 virus came from a lab, and is the result of an attempt to manufacture a vaccine against the AIDS virus.

Luc Montagnier is essentially retiring in disgrace and dragging all the good work he did on Aids through the mud, he has no evidence or scientific results to back these claims.

NaFirinne wrote: »

In May we have Australian Scientists at Latrobe University in Melbourne basically explaining how nearly impossible that such a virus has occurred naturally in Nature.

Apart from the previously occurring virus that are very close to COVID 19 and had their own scares at the time they were discovered.

NaFirinne wrote: »

In Augest we have the President of the World academy of Biomedical Sciences and Technologies publishing a book called COVID 19: La Chimera che ha cambiato il Mondo (China COVID 19: The chimera that changed the world).

In the book he demonstrates how the PLA-owned coronavirus was genetically modified to become the Covid 19 virus which is now ravaging the world.

By demonstrates you means make conjecture as I'm pretty sure he hasn't demonstrated this feat.

edit: and even though he didn't demonstrate this, how did he do this without the genome? Has it become Schrödinger's genome? Only available when making claims it's man made but not available to study to check if it was man made?

NaFirinne wrote: »

He also links the Wuhan Lab to France and the US as they both provided financial and scientific aid to the Chinese as they conducted more dangerous bio engineering experiments.

He does advise that while they might have collaborated that they are not responsible for the end result but it might be the reason why so many insist that the virus must come from nature as the last thing they would want to admit is that they had a hand in creating it.

So France and the US are also responsible for COVID-19 now, how does that work? Is China secretive or please explain the bigger conspiracy here that you seem to now believe.

NaFirinne wrote: »

He also advises that in vaccine development, reverse genetics is used to create viral strains that have reduced pathogenicity to which the immune system responds by creating antibodies against the virus. Reverse genetics can also be used to create viral strains that have increased pathongenicity thus becoming bio weapons. This type of research is considered too dangerous by the west which is why it was shifted to China.

While sounding scary, I don't believe that the west considers this too dangerous and it's still being carried out today.

NaFirinne wrote: »

China has refused to give the completed genome of the virus to Who and other countries as according to Dr. Tritto doing so would mean admitting that the virus was created in a laboratory. He concludes from this that any companies that are developing a vaccines will never be 100% effective and at most be able to cover at best 4-5 strains.

I thought they were working with the US and France? Anyway, any country can map the genome itself, the virus is in the wild (including the original strain), there's no barrier to mapping it again.

The existing vaccines are also effective against all known strains of which there are thousands, way more than 4-5.

NaFirinne wrote: »

This is why you get companies saying that their vaccines is only 50% effective, as the maximum they could get to is maybe 70-75% effective.

This is just ballplop, the reason for different vaccine efficacy is down to the immune system of the individual getting the vaccine not the vaccine itself being less effective. For 95% of people infected with the original strain the vaccine was 100% effective (which in itself is a ridiculous statement to have to make).

NaFirinne wrote: »

So basically china by withholding the genetic code of the virus that it created ensures that no completely effective vaccine will ever be created in the West.

Well, no and no.

NaFirinne wrote: »

I'm interested to know what your guys views on this?

Should these scientists be ignored as crackpots just seeking media attention and what they are saying is so completely crazy that it can't be true.

Or should we listen to them and actually investigate what is really going on in the World.

Is an actual investigation into these things actually impossible with so many powerful invested interests that are going to make billions out of this?

Why are the media so quick to silence and ridicule people who dare to question these things?

None of what you have put together makes sense, there is no cohesive argument here and basically all the science you're referencing is wrong or being misunderstood with crazy made up figures around effectiveness and veering wildly all over the place about the genome.

Dohnjoe

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Thank you for taking the time to put this together. it's a pity that a bunch of people are acting like it's still 2020.

A bunch of people are acting like it's been proven it was deliberately man-made. The current consensus among scientists and virologists is that the virus is natural, i.e. not man-made. The first investigation concluded a lab-leak was highly unlikely, there is currently a second investigation ongoing.

Pussyhands

It's kinda funny how when this idea first came out all the lefty wokey types were talking about "conspiracy theorists" etc.

Now it's a genuine possibility.


Just like how Trump calling it the Chinese virus was somehow racist yet they're calling it the Indian Variant.

robinph

Pussyhands wrote: »

It's kinda funny how when this idea first came out all the lefty wokey types were talking about "conspiracy theorists" etc.

Now it's a genuine possibility.


Just like how Trump calling it the Chinese virus was somehow racist yet they're calling it the Indian Variant.

Except it's not the Indian variant, its Delta variant now.

King Mob

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

They were fools not too. The information was circulating long before Trump mentioned it.

All US presidents lie. No one counted any other presidents lies. So its a pointless claim to make.

So all presidents lie, but we should have believed Trump when he claimed the virus came from a lab with no evidence?

Should we also believe him when he claimed that global warming was made up by the Chinese?
Should we also believe him when he claimed that Obama wasn't born in Hawaii?

Mic 1972

Dohnjoe wrote: »

A bunch of people are acting like it's been proven it was deliberately man-made. The current consensus among scientists and virologists is that the virus is natural, i.e. not man-made. The first investigation concluded a lab-leak was highly unlikely, there is currently a second investigation ongoing.

Actually no. The current consensus is that the first investigation is up for debate due to compelling arguments coming from scientists/virologist.


So, that's a complete u-turn from the initial dismissal

King Mob

Pussyhands wrote: »

It's kinda funny how when this idea first came out all the lefty wokey types were talking about "conspiracy theorists" etc.


Now it's a genuine possibility.

Please provide a quote from one of these "lefty wokey types" saying that it wasn't possible.
Direct quote please.

Also not sure what being left or woke has anything to do with it.