Covid-19 likely to be man made

Mic 1972

Pussyhands wrote: »

It's kinda funny how when this idea first came out all the lefty wokey types were talking about "conspiracy theorists" etc.

Now it's a genuine possibility.

Just like how Trump calling it the Chinese virus was somehow racist yet they're calling it the Indian Variant.

...and when you call them out about it, they ask you for evidence LOL

King Mob

Mic 1972 wrote: »

...and when you call them out about it, they ask you for evidence LOL

Yes. Imagine that. When you make accusations people want you to back them up.

And when you guys are asked for this evidence, you ignore and run away.

Dohnjoe

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Actually no. The current consensus is that the first investigation is up for debate due to compelling arguments coming from scientists/virologist.

The consensus among scientists is that the virus is of zoonotic origin, not man-made or genetically modified.

What's happening is that there is a second investigation into the origins which is fuelling the theory that the virus leaked from a lab

Individuals who believe that the virus is "man-made/genetically modified" are piggybacking on that to infer their theories have some truth.

Mic 1972

Dohnjoe wrote: »

The consensus among scientists is that the virus is of zoonotic origin, not man-made or genetically modified.

What's happening is that there is a second investigation into the origins which is fuelling the theory that the virus leaked from a lab

Individuals who believe that the virus is "man-made/genetically modified" are piggybacking on that to infer their theories have some truth.

The scientists who have been talking about a manually manipulated virus are all in agreement about it and this is the reason why a second investigation is required.

Not sure what piggybacking you are referring to here, I'm not a scientist so I'm going to have to trust who I believe are credible sources and I'm glad that finally they are getting the credit they deserve.

Mic 1972

King Mob wrote: »

Yes. Imagine that. When you make accusations people want you to back them up.

And when you guys are asked for this evidence, you ignore and run away.

People shouldn't spoon-feed you evidence all the time. Especially if the evidence is in your own posts

King Mob

Mic 1972 wrote: »

The scientists who have been talking about a manually manipulated virus are all in agreement about it and this is the reason why a second investigation is required.

Which ones have claimed that it's been modified to be a bioweapon?
Which ones have claimed that it's been modified as part of a plot to cause/fake a pandemic?

If there's none, do you agree that these ideas can be dismissed as nonsense?
Or do you believe that these are also viable options?

King Mob

Mic 1972 wrote: »

People shouldn't spoon-feed you evidence all the time. Especially if the evidence is in your own posts

Lol.

Dodging and running away.

It's not that you aren't spoonfeeding anyone. You aren't providing the evidence because they evidence doesn't exist. The evidence doesn't exist because your claim isn't actually true.

And again, you're making a false accusation there. I never claimed that it was impossible.
Show where I said otherwise.

If you can't provide the quote, then we can conclude your accusation isn't actually true.
You are lying.

Mic 1972

Jezz, do you have to make every thread about yourself?

King Mob

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Jezz, do you have to make every thread about yourself?

Nope. You guys don't have to keep making false accusations about me, then run away from them when challenged.
It's not hard.

Either back them up or don't make them.

So how come you have to make these false accusations anyhow? How do they support your beliefs?

Yellow_Fern

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Ah the "everyone lies" chestnut trotted out. The Trump admin as a deliverer of "trustworthy" info was up there with Putin and Xi Jinping. They weren't taken seriously outside their base, and much less so around the world.

The first investigation has determined that the "lab-accident" theory is extremely unlikely. But it couldn't determine the natural link either (finding the zoonotic link is like looking for a needle in a haystack)

We'll see what the latest US investigation shows up, but I suspect this is something we may never know due to the complexities involved and China's extreme secrecy and state control.

Trump mentioned that it might have been man made. I dont think he claimed it was proven.

King Mob wrote: »

So all presidents lie, but we should have believed Trump when he claimed the virus came from a lab with no evidence?

Should we also believe him when he claimed that global warming was made up by the Chinese?
Should we also believe him when he claimed that Obama wasn't born in Hawaii?

The claim that he lied thousands of times is a meaningless data point. The Wuhan link theory was not Trump's idea. It emerged online much earlier. It was mentioned in Russian media in January 2020. Then I think in April Fox mentioned it. Trump got it from Fox/cables in mid April 2020. I first heard about it from C Milk an American who knows China very well on the 1st of April 2020 from this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpQFCcSI0pU

My advice to pay less attention to govs and presidents and more to people who have their ear to the ground like C milk.

Mic 1972

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Trump mentioned that it might have been man made. I dont think he claimed it was proven.



The claim that he lied thousands of times is a meaningless data point. The Wuhan link theory was not Trump's idea. It emerged online much earlier. It was mentioned in Russian media in January 2020. Then I think in April Fox mentioned it. Trump got it from Fox/cables in mid April 2020. I first heard about it from C Milk an American who knows China very well on the 1st of April 2020 from this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpQFCcSI0pU

My advice to pay less attention to govs and presidents and more to people who have their ear to the ground like C milk.

I admire your patience in replying to the same two people

Mic 1972

patnor1011 wrote: »

NO. It is not about his "questions". but about his false claims. What happened is that he has said what he think I said then constructed whole tangle of craziness and few posts down he claimed I actually said that. When I pointed out I never said such and it was him who said it he never acknowledged that but kept on pressing on his original false claim while asking his "questions". That is when I decided not to waste my time with people like that.
All he does is asking questions while he never answer any directed at him. It is not just my experience few other people came to the same conclusion. One of the most recent exchanges earned him badge of conspiracy theorists.
It is all here.

Mate, in case you haven't noticed, it's the same 2-3 people spamming all the covid threads and making it difficult for others to read through.
They seem uncomfortable with the latest updates on man-made Covid. You should ignore them

King Mob

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

The claim that he lied thousands of times is a meaningless data point.

Not really. The fact that he lies and promotes conspiracy crap when it suits him indicates that he doesn't seem to care about whether or not what he says is accurate. It also shows he's happy to claim things that are obviously not true.
So, when he claimed that virus was man made, it wasn't because he had access to any evidence. It wasn't because he was smarter than anyone else.
He was just spewing whatever crap he thinks would be beneficial to him.
When people were dismissing his claims, it wasn't because they were ignoring evidence he was pointing to. It wasn't because they were disregarding his expert opinion. They were just taking the claim as seriously as the claims that global warming wasn't real and that Obama was from Kenya.

Claiming that he's been proven right now would a bit disingenuous.
Saying that people were fools not to take his claim seriously then would be also a bit disingenuous.

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

The Wuhan link theory was not Trump's idea. It emerged online much earlier. It was mentioned in Russian media in January 2020. Then I think in April Fox mentioned it. Trump got it from Fox/cables in mid April 2020. I first heard about it from C Milk an American who knows China very well on the 1st of April 2020 from this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpQFCcSI0pU

My advice to pay less attention to govs and presidents and more to people who have their ear to the ground like C milk.

Cool. And what evidence did they present?

Timberrrrrrrr

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Mate, in case you haven't noticed, it's the same 2-3 people spamming all the covid threads and making it difficult for others to read through.
They seem uncomfortable with the latest updates on ALLEGED man-made Covid. You should ignore them

Fixed that for you.

silliussoddius

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Mate, in case you haven't noticed, it's the same 2-3 people spamming all the covid threads and making it difficult for others to read through.
They seem uncomfortable with the latest updates on man-made Covid. You should ignore them

What are these updates you speak of?

Mic 1972

silliussoddius wrote: »

What are these updates you speak of?

If you are posting in this thread it is assumed that you are up to speed

silliussoddius

Mic 1972 wrote: »

If you are posting in this thread it is assumed that you are up to speed

It's hard to keep track; it's a bio weapon, it's a hoax, it's for control, plandemic, global depopulation, microchips in vaccines, mark of the beast, magnets etc.
The only new development is the lab leak angle, which was never dismissed in the same way like the nonsense above, but it will be seized upon by the fantasists.

King Mob

Mic 1972 wrote: »

If you are posting in this thread it is assumed that you are up to speed

And question dodged because you cannot provide an answer.

The only "update" that's occured is the story from the mainstream media that the lab origin idea is still being considered.

No new scientific studies have been put forward.
No new evidence has been revealed.

It is beginning to be taken seriously in the US mainstream media, which might be a reason to ignore it.

Yellow_Fern

King Mob wrote: »

Not really. The fact that he lies and promotes conspiracy crap when it suits him indicates that he doesn't seem to care about whether or not what he says is accurate. It also shows he's happy to claim things that are obviously not true.
So, when he claimed that virus was man made, it wasn't because he had access to any evidence. It wasn't because he was smarter than anyone else.
He was just spewing whatever crap he thinks would be beneficial to him.
When people were dismissing his claims, it wasn't because they were ignoring evidence he was pointing to. It wasn't because they were disregarding his expert opinion. They were just taking the claim as seriously as the claims that global warming wasn't real and that Obama was from Kenya.

True and it isn't acceptable for journalists to do that. Journalists should examine and dissect stories and some journalists did but many didn't. It is a diasterif the forth estate is just quite actual real work.

King Mob wrote: »

Claiming that he's been proven right now would a bit disingenuous.
Saying that people were fools not to take his claim seriously then would be also a bit disingenuous.

I never said that. I said Mike Pompeo was vindicated. Mike Pompeo was much more guarded in his words and he never said corona is a manmade weapon or a lab accident. He simply listed it as a possibility. There is a context to Trump's words. China had claimed that corona emerged in the US. But even ignoring that, Trump's bad behaviour isn't an excuse for journalists to ignore stories.

King Mob wrote: »

Cool. And what evidence did they present?

It is worth watching. Where is Yanling Huang?

King Mob

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

True and it isn't acceptable for journalists to do that. Journalists should examine and dissect stories and some journalists did but many didn't. It is a diasterif the forth estate is just quite actual real work.

So then they should have also investigated and took seriously his equally as supported claims that Obama wasn't born in Hawaii? That China invented the concept of global warming?
How about his claim that the virus wasn't going to be a big deal?
What's the difference between those claims and his claim that the virus was man made?

Most journalists seem to have looked into his claims and did reach the same conclusion: there isn't any evidence to support his claim.

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

I never said that. I said Mike Pompeo was vindicated. Mike Pompeo was much more guarded in his words and he never said corona is a manmade weapon or a lab accident. He simply listed it as a possibility.

Who was saying it wasn't a possibility?

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

It is worth watching. Where is Yanling Huang?

Ok. You've ignored my question. This means they don't present any evidence.

Dohnjoe

All innuendo aside, we simply don't know for sure whether this is zoonotic or it leaked from a lab.

Apart from the original poster I don't think anyone in here is claiming it's man-made or genetically altered.

Mic 1972

King Mob wrote: »

And question dodged because you cannot provide an answer.

The only "update" that's occured is the story from the mainstream media that the lab origin idea is still being considered.

No new scientific studies have been put forward.
No new evidence has been revealed.

You seem to ask the same questions over and over in every thread. Do you read anything outside of Boards? because if you do you won't need to beg for links and source all the time.

Mic 1972

fvp4 wrote: »

It is beginning to be taken seriously in the US mainstream media, which might be a reason to ignore it.

Wait until someone is gong to ask you for links and source of every single US mainstream media

banie01

Mic 1972 wrote: »

If you are posting in this thread it is assumed that you are up to speed

Bollox of the highest order to be fair.
If you are posting on a thread regarding Man made covid, and it's likeliihood.
It is germane to flow of the conversation that any updates you might rely upon to reach your conclusion, are shared.

Relying upon "well it's being investigated" is about as honest an approach to debate as "many people say".
Supply a thesis, lay out a theory and at least attempt to actually support it with evidence.

Mic 1972

silliussoddius wrote: »

It's hard to keep track; it's a bio weapon, it's a hoax, it's for control, plandemic, global depopulation, microchips in vaccines, mark of the beast, magnets etc.
The only new development is the lab leak angle, which was never dismissed in the same way like the nonsense above, but it will be seized upon by the fantasists.

so you are up to speed then

silliussoddius

Mic 1972 wrote: »

so you are up to speed then

I missed the updates for the evidence that COVID was man made, but I just realized it's frowned upon.

Mic 1972

silliussoddius wrote: »

I missed the updates for the evidence that COVID was man made, but I just realized it's frowned upon.

Because there is no such claim.
There have been whistleblowers who were silenced for a year claiming that it was man made based on their understanding of virology

Dohnjoe

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Because there is no such claim.
There have been whistleblowers who were silenced for a year claiming that it was man made based on their understanding of virology

Okay, which ones and who were they silenced by?

Mic 1972

WhomadeGod wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/how-joe-biden-came-around-to-the-wuhan-lab-leak-theory-1.4579879

[B]The Biden administration has now studied the mountain of disturbing evidence that we were confronted with in the last few months of the Trump administration,” said David Asher, who led a state department investigation into the origins of Covid.
[/B]

Interesting Irish Times article on how Joe Biden came round to the wuhan lab leak theory.

More mainstream media coming out of the fog

silliussoddius

Mic 1972 wrote: »

More mainstream media coming out of the fog

What fog? They are following evidence, not the flinging sh1t against the wall strategy of conspiracy theorists.

Mic 1972

silliussoddius wrote: »

What fog? They are following evidence, not the flinging sh1t against the wall strategy of conspiracy theorists.

well, that evidence was previously labelled a conspiracy ;-)
it's great to finally see the mainstream media embracing it.
I'm looking forward to new evidence

banie01

Mic 1972 wrote: »

well, that evidence was previously labelled a conspiracy ;-)
it's great to finally see the mainstream media embracing it.
I'm looking forward to new evidence

Evidence of any kind regarding the origin of Covid19 and it's leap to man would be very welcome.

The theory of 3 lab employees infected in Wuhan in November is both interesting and compelling.
There are many reasons to think it's a silver bullet.

There is however a glaring issue with it.
Whilst noone is disputing that Wuhan is the source and seed of the outbreak.
Italian research and review of samples has pointed to Covid circulating there as early as Sept 2019 and established in some lung cancer and pneumonia patients throughout October.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0300891620974755

Now that doesn't mean Italy is the source, there is even some commentary on the reporting calling the earliest detection in to question but no study I can find as of yet to refute it.

If Covid was circulating in Italy (and Italy does have a very busy trade and travel corridor with Wuhan).
How does the November infection of Wuhan Lab employees play into the timing and seeding of the outbreak?
It's 2 months later than the earliest European infection.

https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-circulating-italy-earlier-thought.html

There are also confirmed infections in Paris in December 2019 that was confirmed on review of the samples in 2020.

The virus was circulating long before November and there may well be a slew of deaths and infections that were misdiagnosed as flu or pneumonia that will need to have their sample histology and history reviewed.

The issue with the earlier confirmed circulation though?
Is that it undermines the theory that the Wuhan lab 3 are a patient 0.

There needs to be a reassessment of the timeline of the spread and of samples of all patients deceased with flu and pneumonia from 2019 flu season on to try and identify the earliest infections.

silliussoddius

And if it was accidentally released, was it then discovered it was released and covered up? If yes, then obviously that's big. If no, then there's a big issue over security controls etc

Mic 1972

banie01 wrote: »

Evidence of any kind regarding the origin of Covid19 and it's leap to man would be very welcome.

The theory of 3 lab employees infected in Wuhan in November is both interesting and compelling.
There are many reasons to think it's a silver bullet.

There is however a glaring issue with it.
Whilst noone is disputing that Wuhan is the source and seed of the outbreak.
Italian research and review of samples has pointed to Covid circulating there as early as Sept 2019 and established in some lung cancer and pneumonia patients throughout October.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0300891620974755

Now that doesn't mean Italy is the source, there is even some commentary on the reporting calling the earliest detection in to question but no study I can find as of yet to refute it.

If Covid was circulating in Italy (and Italy does have a very busy trade and travel corridor with Wuhan).
How does the November infection of Wuhan Lab employees play into the timing and seeding of the outbreak?
It's 2 months later than the earliest European infection.

https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-circulating-italy-earlier-thought.html

There are also confirmed infections in Paris in December 2019 that was confirmed on review of the samples in 2020.

The virus was circulating long before November and there may well be a slew of deaths and infections that were misdiagnosed as flu or pneumonia that will need to have their sample histology and history reviewed.

The issue with the earlier confirmed circulation though?
Is that it undermines the theory that the Wuhan lab 3 are a patient 0.

There needs to be a reassessment of the timeline of the spread and of samples of all patients deceased with flu and pneumonia from 2019 flu season on to try and identify the earliest infections.

Other scientists could have been infected prior to November without developing symptoms and could have spread the virus around Wuhan. It's not unthinkable of considering how many people got nothing more than flue symptoms.

In fact if Covid was around Italy in September and nobody noticed anything strange it's because nobody including doctors couldn't tell the difference between an unknown disease like Covid and a normal flue.
As far as we know Covid could have escaped the lab sometime in mid 2019 without anyone realizing that people were being infected by something else that wasnt flue

Dohnjoe

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Other scientists could have been infected prior to November without developing symptoms and could have spread the virus around Wuhan. It's not unthinkable of considering how many people got nothing more than flue symptoms.

Possibly, but without evidence this is speculation

As far as we know Covid could have escaped the lab sometime in mid 2019 without anyone realizing that people were being infected by something else that wasnt flue

Likewise, this is also speculation

Note that both cases tend towards the lab-leak theory, as if that outcome has already been chosen.

banie01

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Other scientists could have been infected prior to November without developing symptoms and could have spread the virus around Wuhan. It's not unthinkable of considering how many people got nothing more than flue symptoms.

It's not unthinkable, neither is faster than light travel.
However if I want to present a theory in the topic?
Some maths, a theory and perhaps even an experiment would all be required.
The method at hand by some posters here is to present an idea, and defend it with "it's not unthinkable".

You might as well smear shít on a wall and call it art.
It is pointless.
Dismissing the earliest suspected Wuhan Lab infection, on the basis of "other scientists could have spread it"?
Carries as much weight as the Nazi's having a base on the moon!
Because they had rockets and didn't Von Braun build them?


Just because the lab exists? Does not mean the outbreak came from there and though it is certainly a possibility?
So are Nazi's on the moon!
In the absence of evidence to the contrary? Any inference can be extended to some outlandish conclusions.

The US are reviewing the Data, with the Brits assistance and want a report in 90days.
What's also interesting though, and I've not seen discussed?
Is that the Biden admin binned the Trump investigation amid concerns around the standard of its evidence. The evidence that Trump and Pompei relied on for their claim, is binned as unreliable.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/05/26/biden-team-shut-down-secretive-trump-era-project-pursuing-the-wuhan-lab-leak-theory/

Mic 1972 wrote: »

In fact if Covid was around Italy in September and nobody noticed anything strange it's because nobody including doctors couldn't tell the difference between an unknown disease like Covid and a normal flue.

Not really, as its initial victims were in the Italian example at least suffering from co-morbidity that caused severe respiratory distress and the search for an alternative diagnosed was likely masked by Dr's treating what they thought was something else.
Hence the review of the earlier samples and the discovery.

Mic 1972 wrote: »

As far as we know Covid could have escaped the lab sometime in mid 2019 without anyone realizing that people were being infected by something else that wasnt flue

Who's we?
Your rambling and disjointed proclamations aren't evidence, and tbh they aren't even much of a theory.
You seem to jump from it being unlikely that a virus was circulating in Italy without being flagged that the Docs are at fault, whilst ignoring the co-morbidity in the study I cited?
To in your final paragraph, continuing the claim that the virus escaped the lab in mid-2019?
The earliest suspected Wuhan lab employee hospitalisations are in November.

Assuming or alleging an earlier leak requires evidence.
Maybe the yanks will present some, but given you are galloping on with your thought experiment and claiming an even earlier than Nov leak?
Where's yours?

King Mob

Mic 1972 wrote: »

You seem to ask the same questions over and over in every thread. Do you read anything outside of Boards? because if you do you won't need to beg for links and source all the time.

Kinda have to ask the same questions over and over again because you folks keep ignoring, dodging and running away from them.

King Mob

So what happens if the American investigation doesn't find anything to support the lab leak idea? What if it directly states that the lab leak idea isn't true?

Will the conspiracy theory shift again?

Conspiracy folks seem to be putting a lot of faith in the American intelligence services and the mainstream media about this claim. But I think the moment that they don't help support the conspiracy theory explanation, we'll be suddenly hearing about how they're part of the conspiracy again.

banie01

King Mob wrote: »

So what happens if the American investigation doesn't find anything to support the lab leak idea? What if it directly states that the lab leak idea isn't true?

Will the conspiracy theory shift again?

Conspiracy folks seem to be putting a lot of faith in the American intelligence services and the mainstream media about this claim. But I think the moment that they don't help support the conspiracy theory explanation, we'll be suddenly hearing about how they're part of the conspiracy again.

You know as well as I do that if that happens?
The goalposts will just shift again to some other cover up explanation.

I know I only mentioned it a couple of posts ago, but it bears repeating IMO.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/05/26/biden-team-shut-down-secretive-trump-era-project-pursuing-the-wuhan-lab-leak-theory/

The evidence that Trump and Pompeo relied upon to lay blame on deliberate Chinese actions has been binned by the Biden admin and the Investigation team that delivered that intel and assessment has been disbanded.

The Biden Admin cited poor quality of evidence and work.
The new Biden intel review is just as much a quality check against the data and conclusions raised in the shuttered investigation, as it is an effort to find the smoking gun of Chinese complicity.

The Trump admin probe seems to have started from an assumption that the virus was engineered as a Bio-weapon.
That's not how any investigation should work.
Find evidence and let it lead you to a conclusion.
Not create a theory and find and shape evidence to fit!

KEY FACTS
The undisclosed project, run out of the arms control unit and led by then-Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, was established in late 2020 to investigate the possibility a Chinese bioweapons lab played a role in the pandemic’s origin, CNN reports, citing sources familiar with the matter.

It was swiftly shuttered by Biden’s team after they were briefed in February and March, CNN reports, citing concerns over the quality of the work and being a poor use of resources.

One former State Department official familiar with the project told CNN the way the team conducted its work was secretive and “suspicious as hell,” cutting out the Department’s technical experts and the intelligence community, prematurely briefing senior officials before work had concluded and, according to another source, excising experts critical of their science.

Those involved with the project defended the work, according to CNN, pointing to a close collaboration with the intelligence community and the deliberate use of “dissenting perspectives.”

Ned Price, a State Department spokesperson, disputed CNN’s reporting in an email to Forbes, acknowledging the project but denying its cancellation.

Price said the team’s work on the origins of the pandemic concluded when the team briefed the new administration and the group has switched its focus to other arms control work in the unit’s portfolio.

CRUCIAL QUOTE
“China’s position that their part in this investigation is complete is disappointing,” Price told Forbes. Price said China’s position is “at odds with the rest of the international community,” which still has “serious questions about the earliest days” of the pandemic and its origins.

KEY BACKGROUND
There is no clear evidence supporting the theory Covid-19 came from a lab—especially, as Pompeo’s program explored, an illegal biological weapons program—but the theory has gained ground in recent weeks as more and more experts highlight that it cannot be ruled out without more information and a rigorous investigation. China’s lack of transparency on the issue has infuriated world leaders, who argue it is needlessly hindering a vital investigation for the world’s recovery, both during the official investigation into the pandemic’s origins and its obscuring during the early days of the pandemic. The continued uncertainty has fueled calls for another more open investigation that revisits China and is able to adequately address all theories on Covid’s origins.

TANGENT
The investigation began a long time after Trump and Pompeo claimed to have substantial evidence supporting the theory, evidence that has still not been produced. Trump has said he is near certain the disease leaked from the lab after referencing the Journal article.

WHAT TO WATCH FOR
The State Department is still working to investigate the lab leak hypothesis, according to a spokesperson speaking to CNN, who also confirmed the closure of the Trump-era inquiry. Pressure is also mounting on the international stage for another, freer probe into the pandemic’s origins. This is something China is unlikely to sanction, especially in light of the resurgent lab theory it vehemently rejects.

King Mob

banie01 wrote: »

You know as well as I do that if that happens?
The goalposts will just shift again to some other cover up explanation.

Yea, but it will be funny if some people say that they won't do this now, but then later do anyway when the investigation doesn't turn out in their favour.

Mic 1972

King Mob wrote: »

Yea, but it will be funny if some people say that they won't do this now, but then later do anyway when the investigation doesn't turn out in their favour.

You sound worried about the potential outcome of the investigation.

Mic 1972

banie01 wrote: »

It's not unthinkable, neither is faster than light travel.
However if I want to present a theory in the topic?
Some maths, a theory and perhaps even an experiment would all be required.
The method at hand by some posters here is to present an idea, and defend it with "it's not unthinkable".

You might as well smear shít on a wall and call it art.
It is pointless.
Dismissing the earliest suspected Wuhan Lab infection, on the basis of "other scientists could have spread it"?
Carries as much weight as the Nazi's having a base on the moon!
Because they had rockets and didn't Von Braun build them?


Just because the lab exists? Does not mean the outbreak came from there and though it is certainly a possibility?
So are Nazi's on the moon!
In the absence of evidence to the contrary? Any inference can be extended to some outlandish conclusions.

The US are reviewing the Data, with the Brits assistance and want a report in 90days.
What's also interesting though, and I've not seen discussed?
Is that the Biden admin binned the Trump investigation amid concerns around the standard of its evidence. The evidence that Trump and Pompei relied on for their claim, is binned as unreliable.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/05/26/biden-team-shut-down-secretive-trump-era-project-pursuing-the-wuhan-lab-leak-theory/


Not really, as its initial victims were in the Italian example at least suffering from co-morbidity that caused severe respiratory distress and the search for an alternative diagnosed was likely masked by Dr's treating what they thought was something else.
Hence the review of the earlier samples and the discovery.




Who's we?
Your rambling and disjointed proclamations aren't evidence, and tbh they aren't even much of a theory.
You seem to jump from it being unlikely that a virus was circulating in Italy without being flagged that the Docs are at fault, whilst ignoring the co-morbidity in the study I cited?
To in your final paragraph, continuing the claim that the virus escaped the lab in mid-2019?
The earliest suspected Wuhan lab employee hospitalisations are in November.

Assuming or alleging an earlier leak requires evidence.
Maybe the yanks will present some, but given you are galloping on with your thought experiment and claiming an even earlier than Nov leak?
Where's yours?

The only rambling I see is in your post


Wuhan scientists being taken to hospital in November is not evidence that Covid couldn't have escaped the lab prior to that, since it's universally recognized that the virus can produce very mind symptoms in most people.


As far as we know Covid could have been spreading as early as mid 2019, and the Italian cases from September 2029 may be an indication that this was the case

banie01

Mic 1972 wrote: »

The only rambling I see is in your post


Wuhan scientists being taken to hospital in November is not evidence that Covid couldn't have escaped the lab prior to that, since it's universally recognized that the virus can produce very mind symptoms in most people.


As far as we know Covid could have been spreading as early as mid 2019, and the Italian cases from September 2029 may be an indication that this was the case

Great rebuttal and very illustrative of the fact that you have zero idea, zero thesis and zero evidence other than an urge to blame "China".

Let's be clear, conspiracy and cover up do happen but when the folk such as yourself base their "theories" on whataboutery and yeah but?

It does actual conspiracy the great service of being shielded by outright stupidity.
Conspiracy can't hide in the light of investigation or evidence, but put a few incoherent idiots on the case and it quickly becomes far easier to point at the Kooks.

Mic 1972

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I don't think anyone in here is claiming it's man-made or genetically altered.

Actually, a number of biologists and virologist are saying exactly that. Only, this hasn't been confirmed by an official investigation

Mic 1972

banie01 wrote: »

Great rebuttal and very illustrative of the fact that you have zero idea, zero thesis and zero evidence other than an urge to blame "China".

Let's be clear, conspiracy and cover up do happen but when the folk such as yourself base their "theories" on whataboutery and yeah but?

It does actual conspiracy the great service of being shielded by outright stupidity.
Conspiracy can't hide in the light of investigation or evidence, but put a few incoherent idiots on the case and it quickly becomes far easier to point at the Kooks.

No idea what you are after here, I cant be bothered with blaming China
I'm interested in the opinion of virologists and biologists who know more than random forum posters

banie01

Mic 1972 wrote: »

No idea what you are after here, I cant be bothered with blaming China
I'm interested in the opinion of virologists and biologists who know more than random forum posters

Tell you what then, for clarity's sake and I'll ask the same question of you over on the other thread.

Post the papers or pre-publish papers that the virologists and biologists have written that you are relying on?

Post the basis of your conviction and work to show others what led you to it?
Why do those papers and opinion outweigh opposing opinion?
What evidential basis and research are they using?

Rather than repeat a mantra, as many a good maths teacher would say.
Show your work, the "right" answer gains no marks if it's a guess and you have shown nothing to support your stance.

banie01

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Actually, a number of biologists and virologist are saying exactly that. Only, this hasn't been confirmed by an official investigation

As promised from the other thread, just so we can all be clear what the basis of your thoughts are.

Mic 1972 wrote: »

No idea what you are after here, I cant be bothered with blaming China
I'm interested in the opinion of virologists and biologists who know more than random forum posters

Tell you what then, for clarity's sake and I'll ask the same question of you over on the other thread.

Post the papers or pre-publish papers that the virologists and biologists have written that you are relying on?

Post the basis of your conviction and work to show others what led you to it?
Why do those papers and opinion outweigh opposing opinion?
What evidential basis and research are they using?

Rather than repeat a mantra, as many a good maths teacher would say.
Show your work, the "right" answer gains no marks if it's a guess and you have shown nothing to support your stance.

Dohnjoe

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Actually, a number of biologists and virologist are saying exactly that. Only, this hasn't been confirmed by an official investigation

There are always individual experts who have contrarian opinions, which is why we look at the consensus (majority) of experts and see what they are saying

The current consensus is that its not man-made or genetically altered in any way

Mic 1972

banie01 wrote: »

Tell you what then, for clarity's sake and I'll ask the same question of you over on the other thread.

Post the papers or pre-publish papers that the virologists and biologists have written that you are relying on?

Post the basis of your conviction and work to show others what led you to it?
Why do those papers and opinion outweigh opposing opinion?
What evidential basis and research are they using?

Rather than repeat a mantra, as many a good maths teacher would say.
Show your work, the "right" answer gains no marks if it's a guess and you have shown nothing to support your stance.

Look. Them. Up

It is assumed that if you are entering a conversation about a specific subject you have done your homework and you are up to speed with what information is being discussed in the outside world.