Mum died, Dad non composmentis

StereoSound

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

If you all came to an agreement, you could take turns with leave from work and subsidise the reduction in wages by using your mums money.

A rota with someone taking over in the evenings and everyone getting some time off from both day and evening.

The problem with Power of attorney is this.. Solicitor was very clear that we are not allowed to use any of mams money for personal use. It is only to be used specifically for Dad and the house. One of my sisters doesn't even agree on using the money to pay the bills so I have to pocket that myself. Some families do abuse power of attorney and start using it for their own personal life. If we did that then there would be no money to care for Dad so I guess it is best we don't touch it because it looks like we are seriously going to need it for Dads care soon.

radiotrickster

StereoSound wrote: »

My other sister started crying her eyes out saying she cannot take time off work. She said the best she can do is take care of Dad on a saturday from 9am - 6pm. She wants to clear it with her work if she can take a week day off so she has 2 days care of Dad like my other sister. She says it's more then likely impossible and she may lose her job ?

Has she got much annual leave left? Suggest to her to use that. She doesn’t need it for a holiday anyway.

And about her attacking you saying she has other stuff going on, *everyone* has other stuff going on. If she ever tries to attack you with that again, remind her she’s not the only one with a life or problems. You don’t have to go into specifics about your life. You know how much you’re dealing with and she doesn’t need an explanation.

Putting your father into care really sounds like the best option. I hope this works out for you, OP. Take care of yourself.

Sonic the Shaghog

OP, if you're dad has intellectual issues which it sounds like try contacting the Brothers of Charity they often can provide far more hours than standard HSE I think or they may work a deal where the HSE will give 21 hours and they may cover extra I'm not sure but it does sound like your dad may be someone they would work with

StereoSound

Sonic the Shaghog wrote: »

OP, if you're dad has intellectual issues which it sounds like try contacting the Brothers of Charity they often can provide far more hours than standard HSE I think or they may work a deal where the HSE will give 21 hours and they may cover extra I'm not sure but it does sound like your dad may be someone they would work with

Never heard of that group. I will look into it.

Psychiatric Patrick

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I know your mum worked in nursing homes and was dubious about them but I wouldn’t discount them. There are very good ones. Just need to do a lot of research.

Is a nursing home an option at the moment with Covid?

Psychiatric Patrick

StereoSound wrote: »

My mother died unexpectedly in the past few weeks. She was the carer of my Dad who is not in a right frame of mind for maybe 10 years now. There is a lot of things he cannot do such as being left alone in the house at any time. He has issues making proper decisions and he has sort of a childish understanding of things. Saying that, he can walk down to the shop alone and buy a litre of milk or other simple things like that but most other things is a no.



I have two sisters, and because Mum died someone has to take care of Dad on a full time basis. I have temporarily moved in with Dad into the family home but my sisters seem to think I should be the one to be his carer and quit my job in the process to do it.... This is not something I want to do, I don't want to quit my job and live with my sick father until the day he dies. That is not really fair on me and my sisters insist they cannot do this because of relationships and work. I have my own life made outside this house to. My mother never wanted to put my Dad into a nursing home and I can understand that, they would just drug the man up until the day he passes. She worked in nursing homes and hospitals all her life and she would tell us exactly what goes on with mentally ill patients.



I told my sisters that I am not going to live with Dad in this way because it suits "their lifestyles" .... I have my own life and as much as I care for my Dad I cannot sit here in the house with him day and night doing nothing but cooking and cleaning for him and watching him the whole time. I was with my mother the moment she died in her bedroom as we waited for the ambulance to arrive, she had some sort of heart complications that led to her death or so we believe until we get proper toxicology results ..... My Dad is 80 and who knows when he could go and the notion of him also dying in my presence like Mum did scares the life out of me . I am depressed enough over my Mum right now and I am being nailed against the wall here to become Dads carer. I have my own house to pay for and I will lose that if I quit my job...



I did suggest to my sisters to get a live in carer into the house for Dad. We don't know how this would actually work or how much it would cost. My mother left a very healthy sum of money to my Dad and a live in carer would probably be doable. Plus my mothers life insurance payout would also help cover costs for my Dads care.


Has anyone got any advice on this ?

Trust me on this - you need to get your siblings in line and let them know you will not not be pushed around about anything.

I have the same type - want to live their lives free of the "burden". I'm happy for them to stay out of my way but they still think they can dictate.

Maybe your mother expected you all to share the duties equally. I would have a hard time going against her with about nursing homes (is that an option with Covid?)

"Living your own life" wouldn't even factor into it. Based on what you describe your father needs clearly needs a trained professional which you are not. I think a live in carer is something that has to be done.

You should contact your local HSE health centre or get in touch with your father's GP. you should do it immediately because the process will take time.

Psychiatric Patrick

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

Is a nursing home an option at the moment with Covid?

I think they are but anyone being admitted is tested beforehand. Looking for a suitable home and organising the fair deal paperwork will take some time though.

Respite services haven’t been mentioned at all though by government or hse. It’s like carers have been forgotten about completely.

Psychiatric Patrick

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I think they are but anyone being admitted is tested beforehand. Looking for a suitable home and organising the fair deal paperwork will take some time though.

Respite services haven’t been mentioned at all though by government or hse. It’s like carers have been forgotten about completely.

I cannot understand anyone who doesn't want to look after a parent - I would have expected my sisters to to be fighting each other to do it not running the other way - but OP's father needs are clearly beyond what the average person can provide.

In this case it would be selfish to NOT get a carer in.

I think you need to read the whole thread. There are many posting who do care for their parents.

There’s has also been discussion with regards to the cost of private carers.

Psychiatric Patrick

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I think you need to read the whole thread. There are many posting who do care for their parents.

There’s has also been discussion with regards to the cost of private carers.

I think you misunderstand my meaning because I didn't explain myself properly.

I'm not criticising people who cannot be carers for their parents or who use nursing homes, etc.

I'm commenting on the people who don't want to.

And I know a carer is expensive. I was simply encouraging the OP to look into it

Also might the OP get better advice if this is need to the Carers thread?

radiotrickster

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

I would have a hard time going against her with about nursing homes (is that an option with Covid?)

I know that when patients are transferred to different wards/hospitals at the moment, they stay isolated and are treated COVID+ until a test result comes back saying otherwise. I'd imagine it's the same with nursing homes.

JustAThought

StereoSound wrote: »

Me and my sisters are getting power of attorney, however it's a long process and can take months to come through. My mum left everything to Dad, she left me and my sister's nothing at all. I guess she wanted to make sure dad would be taken care of. At first we were wondering why she left everything to a mentally ill man who can't withdraw or sign for anything because of his state. I guess she knew we would seek power of attorney so we could use the money for Dad's best interest which is fine by me.

Don’t feel bad about this - She possibly had taken
tax advice and knew the score - she could leave everything to your father knowing the taxman could take nothing - with children the taxman would get a % - this way your father gets the maximum to cover his needs and should there be a need for a further inheritance in years to come there probably will be no need for the taxman to get involved at that point. Your mom was a clever business-woman.

The HSE can be of use in getting some care hours for the family, BUt - as happened my loved one and also a neighbour, when they send their physio & OT team out to evaluate the person at hime they can refuse to
give any package on grounds that the person is a danger to themselves and not fit to live alone - so think it through BEFORE you get a GP or health worker involved. Arguably if we had spent 10k modifying/ adapting the house (stairlift/walk in shower downstairs) and paid a 200k salary iver the years with private self contained accommodation as part of the package to a private nurse or part time day minder and night nurse then we would have not had to sign the 200K+ savings and 90% of the pension over to the fair deal AND also give them the majority of the value of the house. They woiod have been much happier in their home rather than in a single bed in a nursing home - but had we known how many years were left we would have made different decisions. Mental health issues and being also mobile make it a lot more complex. As it was they became so in need of care that a nursing home would have become inevitable - but it was still a very difficult thing to face into and moreso when there were issues and covid.

OP - I’m terribly sorry for your loss and for the position your siblings are trying to push you into. Is there a way your Dad might get medication that could manage his moods and anger for him and so enable him to stay in the home with a private carer or drop in carer at key hours ?

Also, make sure you have an ATM card and the number to be able to manage payments/ salaries/bills/house maintenants/clothes /physio/medication etc. Once a ward of court judgement is made you have to (pay) and get a solicitor, court appointed social worker and judge to agree when you want major things including what seems like basic money matters done - it gets messy and complicated quickly - mostly with the solicitor demanding a fee every time s/he is involved or goes to a meeting/sends a letter. Wuth Covid courts arn’t sutting except for backlogs and urgent cases - it would be far better to make a plan and draw up a spreadsheet of expected costs - Lx/House bin charges/winer gas/l bills/ food/ windowcleaning/weekly house cleaner/ ( you don’t want the place to start to look abandoned), shoes/food/toiletres/ taxis/ light entertainments like newspaoers-cigs etc There are better short term ways of managing this if the family is in agreement and you have one key person at the helm with a receipt book and a spreadsheet. Also paYing bills by direct debit - set it up now - so if there is a fall out the electricity or heat isnt cut off by accident etc.

I’m so sorry you are in this position. You have to look to your future too - do NOT be bullied into poverty or social isolation or into losing your home or job - you may never be able to get either back again if this crisis and financial collapse continues. Neither of your parents would want that for you. Stay strong, stand up to
your siblings and hold firm. If a night nurse is needed then start by telling them one will have to be bugeted for immediately or a rota for
them and their children/spouses to stay over. Your life, dreams and ambitions are not of less importance than theirs just because their paths are already set - you also need to
have your hopes, social ambitions and goals - you are not their lackey just because it is convenient for them. STAY STRONG.

In all of this I am also terribly sorry for
your father. They say music can often sooth and help - maybe worth a try in the background.

sunshinew

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

I cannot understand anyone who doesn't want to look after a parent - I would have expected my sisters to to be fighting each other to do it not running the other way - but OP's father needs are clearly beyond what the average person can provide.

In this case it would be selfish to NOT get a carer in.

That's quite a generalised and sheltered view. You must be very fortunate with your own parents that you can't understand or imagine why "anyone" would not want to look after a parent. Some people have horrific parents that do untold damage to their children... I hold no judgement on people that then don't choose to sacrifice their lives as adults to look after their parent in old age.

That's not the OPs situation from what he's said. What wrong here, is whatever the OP's and sisters relationship is with their father, his sisters are coming up with unfair solutions and placing responsibility on the OP. The siblings are all grieving for their mother while being flung into another crisis. Grief does crazy things to people. Hopefully the sisters will come to their senses when they can see clearly again. I find siblings often grow up with a "role" they play in the family. I wonder OP, if you've always been relied on to be the steady sorter outer of problems and they're boxing you back into that role.

Anyway, stand your ground. They are being unreasonable. I hope for your sake it's an emotional reaction on their part and they will see how unfair they are being in time.

qwerty13

I genuinely think that you’re making a big mistake in not considering a care home of your choosing for your Dad.

I totally understand why you want to follow your mother’s wishes, and I know it’s a very emotional decision - but you are not qualified to look after your Dad, and I’m afraid I can’t see his state getting any better.

I’ve had a number of friends and family go through similar situations, and from what I’ve heard private carers cost a lot - and I mean a LOT - more than a nursing home. And with your Dad’s outbursts and wandering, I’m not sure that all private carers would sign up for that - or at least not without additional costs on top of a very high cost. Meanwhile, you’d be burning through money that could provide a safe setting for him in a care home, for a lot longer. I’ll ask two friends of mine tomorrow if they can tell me the comparison of costs of private in-home carers versus a care home. I just think that - understandably - you’re letting your emotions overtake practical considerations of what your Dad needs, how his needs are best met, and what funds are available to meet his needs.

The other thing is that you know already that your siblings are not going to step up. One of them sounds like they will in the short term, but will flake out. The other one sounds like they’ll never step up. And so you will burn out doing the bulk of the caring, you will socially isolate yourself, and you have to ask yourself if this is how you want to live your life. I don’t mean to be mean when I say that your job is understanding for now - but a couple of years down the line, they just won’t be. If you plan to work from home in your Dad’s house, and he’s shouting and banging, and disappearing and you have to go look for him - with the best will in the world, no employer is going to take that long term. So that means that your job and home are potentially at risk.

I think your wishes re caring for your Dad in his home are very commendable - but just not doable. And I’d really question whether that is the best solution for your Dad. And that’s without going there on the inevitable sibling fighting over ‘sharing’ care duties, and there’s already been disagreements about money. It would be great to say that money doesn’t matter, but it does: money buys your Dad better care than you’re qualified to give, so there’s a choice to be made about how to maximise your Dad’s cash assets and the value of his house in order to get him the best / most appropriate care. And money spent on your Dad means that you won’t lose your job and get into difficulty with your mortgage.

There’s some very emotion-heavy and tough choices to be made. My fear is that you are writing off the best solution without giving it any consideration, because of how your mother decided to live her life. And that was her choice to do so. That doesn’t mean that the same life has to be imposed on you without choice - or that that is the best solution for your Dad’s increasing challenging needs, and what is the best use of his money.

I wish you all the best. Tough times.

StereoSound

qwerty13 wrote: »

I genuinely think that you’re making a big mistake in not considering a care home of your choosing for your Dad.

I totally understand why you want to follow your mother’s wishes, and I know it’s a very emotional decision - but you are not qualified to look after your Dad, and I’m afraid I can’t see his state getting any better.

I’ve had a number of friends and family go through similar situations, and from what I’ve heard private carers cost a lot - and I mean a LOT - more than a nursing home. And with your Dad’s outbursts and wandering, I’m not sure that all private carers would sign up for that - or at least not without additional costs on top of a very high cost. Meanwhile, you’d be burning through money that could provide a safe setting for him in a care home, for a lot longer. I’ll ask two friends of mine tomorrow if they can tell me the comparison of costs of private in-home carers versus a care home. I just think that - understandably - you’re letting your emotions overtake practical considerations of what your Dad needs, how his needs are best met, and what funds are available to meet his needs.

The other thing is that you know already that your siblings are not going to step up. One of them sounds like they will in the short term, but will flake out. The other one sounds like they’ll never step up. And so you will burn out doing the bulk of the caring, you will socially isolate yourself, and you have to ask yourself if this is how you want to live your life. I don’t mean to be mean when I say that your job is understanding for now - but a couple of years down the line, they just won’t be. If you plan to work from home in your Dad’s house, and he’s shouting and banging, and disappearing and you have to go look for him - with the best will in the world, no employer is going to take that long term. So that means that your job and home are potentially at risk.

I think your wishes re caring for your Dad in his home are very commendable - but just not doable. And I’d really question whether that is the best solution for your Dad. And that’s without going there on the inevitable sibling fighting over ‘sharing’ care duties, and there’s already been disagreements about money. It would be great to say that money doesn’t matter, but it does: money buys your Dad better care than you’re qualified to give, so there’s a choice to be made about how to maximise your Dad’s cash assets and the value of his house in order to get him the best / most appropriate care. And money spent on your Dad means that you won’t lose your job and get into difficulty with your mortgage.

There’s some very emotion-heavy and tough choices to be made. My fear is that you are writing off the best solution without giving it any consideration, because of how your mother decided to live her life. And that was her choice to do so. That doesn’t mean that the same life has to be imposed on you without choice - or that that is the best solution for your Dad’s increasing challenging needs, and what is the best use of his money.

I wish you all the best. Tough times.

One of my sister's in all honesty I don't trust her with her suggested care schedule of Mondays and Saturdays. Tomorrow is her first day caring for Dad in a full day since Mam passed. I reminded her earlier about it and she is silent. I reckon she is pacing up and down dreading tommorow. Wouldnt surprise me if she pretends to be sick or something to get out of it. She is fierce protective of her freedom.

I definitely cannot be socially isolated by this. I have very much been bullied into his care and as I said to my sister's the other evening if I didn't protest I would stuck with him 24/7 and you would be delighted!

With the new temporary care schedule we supposedly worked out between ourselves we will see how things go. One sister is doing Wednesday and and Thursday from 9am to 6pm. The other difficult sister is doing Monday from 12:30 pm to 5pm, Saturday from 9am to 6pm. This gives me more time to move and get things done outside the house. But as I said I am not holding this rotated care times as gospel.

Fakediamond

I hope you’re checking out care homes in the meantime. Best to do your research anyway and find a place you think would suit your Dad’s needs, before being possibly forced into this decision. There are some lovely places, my friend’s mother is in a lovely home, with fabulous views across a golf course to the mountains. I tell my family that I want to go there, if it becomes necessary!

December2012

Fakediamond wrote: »

I hope you’re checking out care homes in the meantime. Best to do your research anyway and find a place you think would suit your Dad’s needs, before being possibly forced into this decision. There are some lovely places, my friend’s mother is in a lovely home, with fabulous views across a golf course to the mountains. I tell my family that I want to go there, if it becomes necessary!

Agreed! the place my parent is in is lovely, and they are actually thriving since they went in.

Pistachio19

Make sure you leave as soon as they arrive and don't arrive back until the second they are due to leave. Also tell them there are no second chances - one late arrival, one no-show and the entire plan is knocked on the head and you will all be researching nursing homes.

Tork

I had a family member in a home and it was the best place for them. It would not have been in the earlier stages of their illness but these things progress. It got to the stage where care at home was no longer the best thing for them or their carer. Even their carer, who had been determined to keep going with home care, admitted that it was better to send them into a home. It can take a while for the penny to drop though.

LegacyUser

Even if you can't contemplate a care home at the moment, it's a good idea to see what's in your local area, read their reviews and contact them to ask some general questions about costs etc.

I found that all of the good ones have long waiting lists, so you could put his name down on a list anyway at this stage. Otherwise if it became necessary for him to go into a home, he might end up having to go to one that might not be as good. If his name is on a waiting list and they contact you to say a place has become available you can always say he is not ready to go in yet but keep his name on the list for the future. I was glad I had done this when it came time for my father to go into the home as it happened suddenly in the end and he got into one of the better homes in the area.

JustAThought

Thinking of you OP and the awful and tragic situation you find yourself and your father in.

A colleague recently had no choice due to dementia and huge distress/anger issues and then multiple falls but to organise for their loved one to live in a 24 hour care home - they had spent 2 years of a niggtmare while their family and relationships fell apart and given up a great job which they will never get back now & are heartbroken. They feel they have failed their other half, children and in their career - as well as to their loved one. It is heartbreaking to see that despite all their painnand sacrifices and determination the choice was eventually taken away out of their hands
and rhey lost so much despite all the sacrifices they made - and aLl the money they paid for private home care.

You may not want to say what part of the world are you broadly based in. North leinster, West Cork etc - it might help to get peoples positive or negative feedback on resources or possible solutions in your geographic area. I know of one entirely free all day centre run by the nuns in South Dublin where a e6 fee for lunch and dinner is all that is asked and everything else provided foc. Its unbelievable reaLly what some places offer. There are also two new places open , one with daycare or residental and one with 24/7 care - I suppose we only think of 24 residental care when perhaps there might be other options. I hear what you said about your Dads refusal to change or adapt - has anyone spoken to
him about his fears and what you are all
thinking? It might put his anxiety at ease ssomewhat. Dont be sucked into making promises or let anyone else make those promises - unless they are going to step in and give up their life and future and home .

Its a nightmare of guilt to be forced into and I feel your siblings selfishness and wilfullness trying to trap you - the house will be lost anyway and need to be sold in future inheritances to capital
gains tax bills and inheritance tax bills that will occour in the future - your siblings know this don’t they? Dont throw your home and mortgage away
for a siblings house ambitions and money greed. Im so sorry about your Dads illness and your
mother, may she rest in peace.

ennis81

I’m so sorry for your loss, I have experienced a very similar situation, my mam died in May, my dad and myself had been caring for her for the last 10
years, she had dementia and was very immobile, I am the youngest of 5 girls, I am married and have 2 children myself.
My father never wanted mam to go into a nursing home, so I had the stairlift put in renovations done to the bathroom etc to care for her at home, we also received 5 hrs Home help a week from the HSE, eventually after a few falls last year, I finally got my father to agree to the fair deal scheme as his own health was starting to suffer, we had a date for her going into the nursing home and COVID hit, sadly she got sicker during the lockdown and passed in May, my father was sick in the same hospital at the time, it’s hard for me to discribe how terrible this all was.
During all of this my 4 other siblings have been very little help, they left me to deal with ABSOLUTELY everything, my father is still ill himself and now one other sister helps me with him, reading your posts and this thread has opened my eyes to how much I’ve been through, everything others have said is true, your sisters will
guilt you, make pathetic excuses and leave you to deal with everything IF you let them.
My honest advice to you is to put your dad in a nursing home, it’s the best solution, I totally understand how upsetting it will be with your description of his behavior, but realistically this situation is only going to get worse and you are only prolonging the heartache sadly, you need to start with your dads GP and the public health nurse, they will get you the referrals you need for an occupational therapist and a geriatric assessment,
Your sisters sound as horribly selfish as mine and I have no advice there, I no longer speak to 3 of mine and I never will again, like yourself I’ve done my best for my parents, you sound like a lovely person who deserves to be happy, I really wish you all the best x

LegacyUser

Just a quick message as I was in the same boat and the fallout ruined my life.

We had to get live in carers but dad's dementia began to manifest as physical aggression - he was an absolute gentleman his entire life I have to add - but carers, and us as family, no longer felt safe on our own and so we had to move him into a nursing home.

My one piece of advice: please take out power of attorney, ASAP. You sound like you care more than your siblings. Don't let them have a say on what happens to him in the future if you can't trust them now. If you don't get power of attorney now while he is still with it to some extent, it may become impossible later. Do it now if you can. Good luck, and please take good care of yourself and your dad. Forget everyone else.

Sorry about that

StereoSound wrote: »

One of my sister's in all honesty I don't trust her with her suggested care schedule of Mondays and Saturdays. Tomorrow is her first day caring for Dad in a full day since Mam passed. I reminded her earlier about it and she is silent. I reckon she is pacing up and down dreading tommorow. Wouldnt surprise me if she pretends to be sick or something to get out of it. She is fierce protective of her freedom.

I definitely cannot be socially isolated by this. I have very much been bullied into his care and as I said to my sister's the other evening if I didn't protest I would stuck with him 24/7 and you would be delighted!

With the new temporary care schedule we supposedly worked out between ourselves we will see how things go. One sister is doing Wednesday and and Thursday from 9am to 6pm. The other difficult sister is doing Monday from 12:30 pm to 5pm, Saturday from 9am to 6pm. This gives me more time to move and get things done outside the house. But as I said I am not holding this rotated care times as gospel.

Another issue you may be faced with, is your Dad's unpredictable behaviour. You mentioned that he can kick doors, scream, and at times absconds from home. I would be surprised if the HSE or a private agency employed by the HSE would send in carers, to a person who is volatile, and may lash out. In his confusion, your Dad may feel threatened and put himself or them in harm's way. You mentioned that a home help was in the home, but they would have been only employed to help with housework as a support to your mother.

I would encourage you to be present for your Dad's assessment, and omit nothing. Remember that you are not qualified to care for your Dad, and are battling on nonetheless, but this isn't sustainable. Keep the chin up, you'll get through this, and you've already done a great job of getting your sisters to do their bit. Well done.