Beginner Strength Programmes

Alf Veedersane

Cill94 wrote: »

One thing I’d recommend for anyone doing WS4SB is to not change the main lift often at all. More practice at the same exercise will allow you to get stronger and bigger faster.

I think any changes in the main lift should really only be variations of the movement - pause/tempo squats. Or high/low bar. Grip width or pause/tempo on bench. Pause or snatch grip deadlift. That kinda thing.

It's enough variation to run for a bit and freshen it up without fundamentally changing the movement.

Well...in me less-than-qualified opinion.

Cill94

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I think any changes in the main lift should really only be variations of the movement - pause/tempo squats. Or high/low bar. Grip width or pause/tempo on bench. Pause or snatch grip deadlift. That kinda thing.

It's enough variation to run for a bit and freshen it up without fundamentally changing the movement.

Well...in me less-than-qualified opinion.

For beginners I like to keep things very simple and vary nothing except the rep ranges ,and the accessory exercises when they get boring. One reason why 5/3/1 would be my favourite of the ones listed.

Mellor

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I think any changes in the main lift should really only be variations of the movement - pause/tempo squats. Or high/low bar. Grip width or pause/tempo on bench. Pause or snatch grip deadlift. That kinda thing.

If the goal is powerlifting, then I strongly agree. In that case it needs to be be a big 3 direct variation.
If the goal is looking better naked, I think you get more flexibility. But common sense applies.

Alf Veedersane

Cill94 wrote: »

For beginners I like to keep things very simple and vary nothing except the rep ranges ,and the accessory exercises when they get boring. One reason why 5/3/1 would be my favourite of the ones listed.

Yep, very much so. I wasn't thinking of beginners per se. It's probably easier to introduce some variation/freshness by changing other exercises a little rather than the main lifts.

Mellor wrote: »

If the goal is powerlifting, then I strongly agree. In that case it needs to be be a big 3 direct variation.
If the goal is looking better naked, I think you get more flexibility. But common sense applies.

Again, I'd agree. Looking through the powerlifting prism here.

Black Sheep

In terms of choice of lifts on any conjugate set up, there are a few considerations, but all said so far is valid.

This is what I cycle through, and I do change my lift weekly, but I've been doing conjugate for a few years and have a lot of practice on all the variations:-

Max effort upper
1. Competition bench
2. Close grip bench
3. Spoto bench
4. Dead start rack bench
5. Pin bench
6. Floor press
7. Thick grip bench
8. Shoulder press
9. Standing pin press
10. Incline bench

Max effort lower
1. Squat
2. Paused squat
3. Pin squat
4. Box squat
5. Front squat
6. Trap bar deadlift
7. Deadlift
8. Deficit deadlift
9. Wide grip deadlift
10. Wide grip deficit deadlift
11. Sumo deadlift
12. Block / rack pull

Could be forgetting a few but you get the idea. This is also not the order I cycle them in.

Sometimes I will also do 90% x 3 instead of going for a heavy single.

If you look at the above there are not many speciality bars. With just a straight bar it's totally possible to still run conjugate. I also don't bother with bands or chains on the dynamic days, I just have more volume at a sub maximal weight.

I agree that for competition orientated people you need to chose ME movements on the basis of where your weak points are, and make sure you're actually focused on variations that carry over best to competition lifts. However, worth bearing in mind that by picking variations that are a bit different it's possible to have some waving of load in your training, so you're not getting ground down.

For physique focus I would say you can have more freedom but really it's going to be the high volume of assistance and accessory work that are going to bring along a balanced physique and give you a lot of the hypertrophy on a conjugate set-up. If your ME work is up to a heavy single for the day and then back offs are like 90% 2x2 or 85% 3x3 then you're still going to need to do a lot of high volume other work to get bigger. And the DE day can be more like a volume day for same reason.

WS4SB is the most 'beginner friendly' of conjugate set-ups because DiFranco has them working with a higher rep top set and has them switching out the movement less frequently than more intermediate or advanced conjugate would.

But I still think that before tackling either WS4SB or something like 5/3/1 it makes sense to run a linear progress to make as much progress in the most efficient amount of time possible.

Alf Veedersane

Black Sheep wrote: »

4. Dead start rack bench
5. Pin bench

Am I right in saying that the dead start is specifically where the pins are set so the bar is chest level whereas the pin press can be but can also be set at different levels so can be used for partial ROM?

Black Sheep

Alf,

For the dead start bench I set up the pins just above my chest. I begin the movement with the bar on the pins and I press it up overhead to lockout and then down to the pins again.

For the pin bench I basically set up the same way, but the movement begins with the bar racked, and I unrack as in a normal bench, lower down and I pause it on the pins for a long pause and then back up to lockout and re-rack.

They are quite similar movements done this way, but yeah you could also vary pin height depending on where weak points are.

With the standing pin press I set up the pins at my sticking point, which is around the eyes or just above, and I press off the pins there.

Alf Veedersane

Black Sheep wrote: »

Alf,

For the dead start bench I set up the pins just above my chest. I begin the movement with the bar on the pins and I press it up overhead to lockout and then down to the pins again.

For the pin bench I basically set up the same way, but the movement begins with the bar racked, and I unrack as in a normal bench, lower down and I pause it on the pins for a long pause and then back up to lockout and re-rack.

They are quite similar movements done this way, but yeah you could also vary pin height depending on where weak points are.

With the standing pin press I set up the pins at my sticking point, which is around the eyes or just above, and I press off the pins there.

Ah, gotcha. I had wondered if the differences were just those subtleties with dead start almost being a movement within a range covered by 'pin press' (I didn't differentiate between bench and OH press cos I don't do much barbell OHP).

I have used a mid-range pin press that should be something you can overload but the 4" pin spacing in the racks in Flyefit mean it's too high or maybe only 2" off the chest.

As an aside, the 4" spacings are a pain for pin squats and I have to stand on a bumper.

Black Sheep

Yeah, Westside hole spacing would be the dream for some movements, where hole spacing doesn't quite work out as you want. The hole spacing on my rack is not as bad as what you're describing but it's a bit awkward at times. Once or twice I have put leftover strips of rubber floor mat down on my bench in order to raise me up, to get into the right position.

blackwave

Is there any program that people could recommend for working with Bands / bodyweight. Don't have access to Dumb bells and don't really want to purchase any as living in a foreign country for a while and would have to sell them when I am moving home.

Black Sheep

blackwave wrote: »

Is there any program that people could recommend for working with Bands / bodyweight. Don't have access to Dumb bells and don't really want to purchase any as living in a foreign country for a while and would have to sell them when I am moving home.

The focus in this thread is on barbell-based beginner strength programmes.

There's more information on bodyweight training and minimalist equipment training elsewhere in the forum. Could begin with https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058123345

ThunbergsAreGo

Black Sheep wrote: »

The focus in this thread is on barbell-based beginner strength programmes.

There's more information on bodyweight training and minimalist equipment training elsewhere in the forum. Could begin with https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058123345

And as a beginner / intermediate lifter for about 5 years, it's a really interesting read!

Gorgonzaga

Starting Strength is the best one for my money. I got great results with it and I wasn't anywhere near a beginner when I gave it a try. Simple yet effective.