So are you single? Argos style....

i_surge

CalamariFritti wrote: »

There are genuine creeps no doubt. But now creepy has simply become a very sad word. Mostly for people for whom it isn't enough to say 'no not interested' but who have to express outrage that someone so obviously below their standards dares to express interest.

There is a lot of talk of the "victim" and then extrapolating that to violence and strength differences.

Small bit of paranoia at play.

The crime, a rush of blood to the head and an unsolicited text message.

.anon.

i_surge wrote: »

There is a lot of talk of the "victim" and then extrapolating that to violence and strength differences.

Small bit of paranoia at play.

The crime, a rush of blood to the head and an unsolicited text message.

It wasn't just an unsolicited text message. The question mark he sent a few hours later implied that he wasn't going to take no answer for the answer that it clearly was. It's understandable that someone might get a bit paranoid when (a) he acquired her number through his job and (b) seemed a bit persistent.

i_surge

.anon. wrote: »

It wasn't just an unsolicited text message. The question mark he sent a few hours later implied that he wasn't going to take no answer for the answer that it clearly was. It's understandable that someone might get a bit paranoid when (a) he acquired her number through his job and (b) seemed a bit persistent.

Fair enough

? to no answer is a bit desperate alright but I still think there is a huge dose of exaggeration going on.

MsStote

i_surge wrote: »

Fair enough

? to no answer is a bit desperate alright but I still think there is a huge dose of exaggeration going on.

Nah it is pushy and is demanding she answer. He STOLE data from the company he worked at for personal gain. What he did was well over the line. One meeting, he thinks she's hot and wants to **** her. I mean a small meeting like that he couldn't see if their interests matched or anything. He just saw she was hot.

i_surge

MsStote wrote: »

Nah it is pushy and is demanding she answer. He STOLE data from the company he worked at for personal gain. What he did was well over the line. One meeting, he thinks she's hot and wants to **** her. I mean a small meeting like that he couldn't see if their interests matched or anything. He just saw she was hot.

People steal your data all the time. I get unsolicited emails, calls and marketing.

I agree with you but I think some earlier posters went completely OTT with stories of escalating violence.

Deal with what happened not what "might happen".

hynesie08

hynesie08 wrote: »

Well if for example you used a mate in the guards to use that reg plate to get her name and used that to contact her, would that be romantic?

That would be completely incomparable to the story being reported.

Errashareesh

.anon. wrote: »

No, it's just a convenient way of making a complaint.

Publicly it isn't - they're going to have to take it to private message anyway so why not send them a PM in the first place. Precious likes and comments is the answer.

hynesie08

Deleted User wrote: »

That would be completely incomparable to the story being reported.

Misuse of GDPR to gain information....... Not that different.

Errashareesh

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

If you were on Grindr for real or if it was a woman on a similar site for real, the physical appearance of the message sender would be the only important part. They could say or send what they liked once they’re high up the scale, and be an offensive creep if they’re on the opposite end.

Appearance of women changes men's perception of them too. Why is that always thrown at women? And it does look really resentful.

.anon.

Errashareesh wrote: »

Publicly it isn't - they're going to have to take it to private message anyway so why not send them a PM in the first place. Precious likes and comments is the answer.

No, it's not just about likes and comments. I know from bitter experience that you're far more likely to get an immediate response from a company if your complaint is public.

Stateofyou

i_surge wrote: »

People steal your data all the time. I get unsolicited emails, calls and marketing.

I agree with you but I think some earlier posters went completely OTT with stories of escalating violence.

Deal with what happened not what "might happen".

Does that make it right?

Also, this is a different context than an annoying sales cold call.

Unfortunately and what you don't seem to understand, is that the "might happen" scenario is actually a frequent occurrence and so they're right to be on their guard (it's actually smart) and upset in this instance too.

As a man, I go about my day not thinking of my safety at all really. Women on the other hand and as I had my eyes opened to years ago- actually live by a set of rules designed to keep themselves safe because of what "might happen" all too often. There are self-defence courses aimed specifically at women and in fact my wife's workplace back in the states paid for a police training course in self defence for women. Look up "the list" of rules women have to keep themselves safe in all sorts of situations, seriously.

notsoyoungwan

i_surge wrote: »

I agree with you but I think some earlier posters went completely OTT with stories of escalating violence.

Deal with what happened not what "might happen".

But that’s not how we operate in real life. We deal with what might happen all the time. We take out house/health/car/income insurance because of what might happen. We don’t leave our front doors unlocked because of what might happen. We (well certainly women) don’t walk alone down dark alleys at 2am because of what might happen. We don’t leave expensive phones and our credit cards unattended in busy pubs because of what might happen. Heck, we sometimes carry umbrellas because of what might happen.

And for this woman, she was freaked out about what might happen when a guy who has inappropriately used her phone number to send pushy texts and knows where she lives, gets rejected and might not be too happy about it. He’s already shown himself to be an eejit and have poor judgement and to push boundaries, so it’s not unreasonable to wonder what else he might do.

hynesie08

.anon. wrote: »

No, it's not just about likes and comments. I know from bitter experience that you're far more likely to get an immediate response from a company if your complaint is public.

I was waiting on a refund from a company for something I bought before lockdown, emailed their general and dedicated email in may, no response. Replied to one of their Facebook comments about it in June and they replied to my email less than 10 minutes later.

Companies don't care about customer service, just the perception of it.

i_surge

Stateofyou wrote: »

Does that make it right?

Also, this is a different context than an annoying sales cold call.

Unfortunately and what you don't seem to understand, is that the "might happen" scenario is actually a frequent occurrence and so they're right to be on their guard (it's actually smart) and upset in this instance too.

As a man, I go about my day not thinking of my safety at all really. Women on the other hand and as I had my eyes opened to years ago- actually live by a set of rules designed to keep themselves safe because of what "might happen" all too often. There are self-defence courses aimed specifically at women and in fact my wife's workplace back in the states paid for a police training course in self defence for women. Look up "the list" of rules women have to keep themselves safe in all sorts of situations, seriously.

No definitely not right, I hate it.

Life is not without risk for anyone, we have rules they just in differ in nature depending on the circumstances. I still think there is a growing culture of disproportionate mistrust in men, it only takes one asshole, I get that but still there is some unfair characterisation, the violence alluded to in this thread never actually happened.

pickarooney

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

My friend said '' if you want to know what it's like for a girl, then join Grinder and add a cute pic'' I took her challenge for a social experiment if nothing else, and within 5 minutes of joining I was inundated with messages and dick pics.
A real eye opener as to what girls deal with daily, especially online.

Just put your own photo through a feminising filter and put it on Tinder. You'll get another view of things.

Stateofyou

i_surge wrote: »

No definitely not right, I hate it.

Life is not without risk for anyone, we have rules they just in differ in nature depending on the circumstances. I still think there is a growing culture of disproportionate mistrust in men, it only takes one asshole, I get that but still there is some unfair characterisation, the violence alluded to in this thread never actually happened.

Agree with your starting sentence there. It doesn't have to have happened though. Not everything needs a tragic outcome to justify an action/reaction.

i_surge

Stateofyou wrote: »

Agree with your starting sentence there. It doesn't have to have happened though. Not everything needs a tragic outcome to justify an action/reaction.

Sure but how do you calibrate perception of risk to reality?

Based on the number of times I have gotten off a bus at the same stop as a woman lateish at night and seeing them act paranoid and sketchy when I'm just on my way home and pose no hazard, i think it is a bit off. I cross the road and get as far from them as I can so they can chill out.

Stateofyou

i_surge wrote: »

Sure but how do you calibrate perception of risk to reality?

Based on the number of times I have gotten off a bus at the same stop as a woman lateish at night and seeing them act paranoid and sketchy when I'm just on my way home and pose no hazard, i think it is a bit off. I cross the road and get as far from them as I can so they can chill out.

You leave it up to the person who actually experienced the event to process and react as they're entitled to do.

Instead of thinking it's a bit off, you could feel sad and empathise that's the reality due to how society's women are treated. Instead of criticising their reactions and actions they take, you could commit to standing up against it in your own life. Obviously starting with yourself and not being a creeper (not at all saying you are). And then whenever it happens around you like a buddy or family member step in and speak up. I think it's great you cross the road to ease their worries. Many men do this.

i_surge

Stateofyou wrote: »

You leave it up to the person who actually experienced the event to process and react as they're entitled to do.

Instead of thinking it's a bit off, you could feel sad that's the reality due to how society's women are treated. Instead of criticising their reactions and actions they take, you could commit to standing up against it in your own life. Obviously starting with yourself and not being a creeper (not at all saying you are). And then whenever it happens around you like a buddy or family member step in and speak up. I think it's great you cross the road to ease their worries. Many men do this.

I take the opposite view.

Of course there are risks from scumbag men to innocent women but I feel there is a level of learned paranoia that comes from the media discourse. It is unfair to men to have to cross the road because you can almost smell the fear from a woman who has made a 100% incorrect assessment of the situation.

Stateofyou

i_surge wrote: »

I take the opposite view.

Of course there are risks from scumbag men to innocent women but I feel there is a level of learned paranoia that comes from the media discourse. It is unfair to men to have to cross the road because you can almost smell the fear from a woman who has made a 100% incorrect assessment of the situation.

Well you're entitled to your view, but your opinion there is very dismissive of women's lived experience. I would say it's more unfair on women to have to feel afraid in their daily lives and take measures that keep them safe due to justified assessment in often dangerous situations. My mam once had a woman run up to her and say to please play along someone is following her and they walked together while on the phone with my uncle loudly letting him know their whereabouts. Which reminds me, there's viral tiktoks going around from accounts of men who have recorded themselves as if they're having a conversation about meeting up with the woman who's playing it on speakerphone, for her to use when needed. Things like this are needed because this is their reality. To put it bluntly, you need to inform yourself a bit better on this.

i_surge

Stateofyou wrote: »

Well you're entitled to your view, but your opinion there is very dismissive of women's lived experience. I would say it's more unfair on women to have to feel afraid in their daily lives and take measures that keep them safe due to justified assessment in often dangerous situations. My mam once had a woman run up to her and say to please play along someone is following her and they walked together while on the phone with my uncle loudly letting him know their whereabouts. Which reminds me, there's viral tiktoks going around from accounts of men who have recorded themselves as if they're having a conversation about meeting up with the woman who's playing it on speakerphone, for her to use when needed. Things like this are needed because this is their reality. To put it bluntly, you need to inform yourself a bit better on this.

I think I am well informed, not making light of the issues and don't like the "do better" tone. We can agree to differ.

I'm sure both of the people involved in this story would be thrilled to know there's 44 pages of conjecture going on about them. Maybe it's time to be done now?

SineadSpears

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm sure both of the people involved in this story would be thrilled to know there's 44 pages of conjecture going on about them. Maybe it's time to be done now?

Hamsterchops

We have one of the last Argos catalogues

Will miss it .....

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm sure both of the people involved in this story would be thrilled to know there's 44 pages of conjecture going on about them. Maybe it's time to be done now?

Unfollow?

pickarooney

i_surge wrote: »

I think I am well informed, not making light of the issues and don't like the "do better" tone. We can agree to differ.

The two viewpoints are not irreconcilable. You can't dismiss someone's fears based on a potential or perceived danger but you also can't just wave away someone else's unease at being perceived as a latent threat because of what they look like.

I think if everyone puts themselves in the others' shoes for a minute they could understand the other's point of view even if they don't fully agree.

Like, imagine every time you go outside you come across one person who stares you down and makes shapes at you. You'll soon enough start having a defensive reaction to everyone that looks like this one person in a hundred that gives off this vibe. And because they don't all look alike you end up being wary of everyone that matches the profile.

But also imagine that almost every person you know has had one bad experience with a member of a certain group, ethnicity, supporters of a team which happens to be the one you're part of... Imagine that because of this you're expected to move out of the way, change your habits, somehow represent the scumbags that hassle the people you know simply because you share one trait with them.

hynesie08

hynesie08 wrote: »

Misuse of GDPR to gain information....... Not that different.

So you reckon that looking at an order form that has been specifically given to you, that has a phone number on it for a customer you are delivering to, who you've talked to in person already, is the same thing, as seeing an attractive girl getting into her car from a distance, taking her car reg plate, ringing a mate in the Gardai, getting him to access their personal info on Pulse (which potentially can contain a lot more than just contact information) and getting the Garda to relay their phone number to you, is the same thing?




I don't know if you fully comprehend how silly that sounds.

Ubbquittious

o1s1n wrote: »

I suggest you look up the definition of a 'strawman arguement', it might help avoid future pitfalls in your reasoning.

Nobody is saying it's creepy to ask someone for a date, why? Because that would be a ridiculous notion.

What people are saying it is is creepy to abuse your position in work to obtain a phone number and use it for personal reasons.

Feck sake a phone number has feck all value. Anyone can get a person's phone number if they want, but if that person doesn't want to talk to you the number is shag all use to you.



If you have dozens or hunderds of contacts like most people do you can't realistically expect it to stay a secret.

i_surge

pickarooney wrote: »

Imagine that because of this you're expected to move out of the way, change your habits, somehow represent the scumbags that hassle the people you know simply because you share one trait with them.

I don't follow this. Are you saying this would be a reasonable way to act?

Anyway as I said I move as far away as I can if a girl is giving off that nervous vibe so she can relax and see I am not a threat. But I'm not not insulted by it.

andekwarhola

The guy can hardly have any complaints about losing his job. It's a crass way to approach a woman, not least because of the confidentiality involved in knowing her address and contact details and her now knowing this.

That said, it'd be nice if people's primary recourse in these situations was simply to inform his employers directly instead of immediately banging a drum on social media.

It's unfortunately becoming increasingly harder and harder to distinguish between due cause and narcissism in these cases which is unfortunate as the guy was definitely in the wrong.

Mic 1972

sales people calling your personal number are a lot more annoying, yet nobody has an issue with the fact our personal phone numbers are shared with other companies who can call us in our homes whenever they want and it's up to us to find our way our of those annoying conversations.
The guy acted like guys do. No stalker or serial killer behavior here, just a regular guy chancing his arm

ittakestwo

Mic 1972 wrote: »

sales people calling your personal number are a lot more annoying, yet nobody has an issue with the fact our personal phone numbers are shared with other companies who can call us in our homes whenever they want and it's up to us to find our way our of those annoying conversations.
The guy acted like guys do. No stalker or serial killer behavior here, just a regular guy chancing his arm

That is not regular at all. Most people with sense would know they are risking their job for that.

Errashareesh

Mic 1972 wrote: »

sales people calling your personal number are a lot more annoying, yet nobody has an issue with the fact our personal phone numbers are shared with other companies who can call us in our homes whenever they want and it's up to us to find our way our of those annoying conversations.
The guy acted like guys do. No stalker or serial killer behavior here, just a regular guy chancing his arm

Company doing so not the same as individual on their personal time/phone.

It was inappropriate and unprofessional. No matter how harmless (and it likely was, although texting her a question mark after a while when she didn't respond is weird) he shouldn't have done it. I don't know that cold callers are a lot more annoying. They are annoying but not comparable.

irishblessing

So it sounds like the guy has no self awareness at all. He shouldn't approach her while on the job and certainly not by means in which he had to take her phone number from the capacity of his job. I would think most women would prefer to have the choice whether or not to give out their number depending on whether she's interested. He didn't even work for it (no pun intended)!

kowloon

I'm sort of mixed on this. You shouldn't be accessing people's data through your job. A guard would get in trouble for it, a doctor or nurse would lose their job over it, so really the same rules should apply to delivery drivers. But this has been blown out of proportion by some like there needs to be a restraining order.

As for approarching women in a setting where it's not expected, I stay the hell away from that. The only places I would chance it is online dating sites and maybe in a pub. Even in those settings you get people who love to drama up and get offended (for an audience) that someone thinks they have a chance when they're so much above their league. But it's important to avoid going incel on it and try not to tar an entire gender with a brush dipped in a narrow range of experience. It just sucks to be ugly and boring, but it is what it is. If humans were wild animals a lot of us men would be outcasts from the group looking in at a minority of successful silverbacks.

gmisk

https://twitter.com/_annarebecca/status/1294661185074335745?s=19

I thought the argos one was pretty bad....but this person was contacted by a person who took their blood sample in a hospital seemingly....

o1s1n

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Feck sake a phone number has feck all value. Anyone can get a person's phone number if they want, but if that person doesn't want to talk to you the number is shag all use to you.



If you have dozens or hunderds of contacts like most people do you can't realistically expect it to stay a secret.

You're just not getting it, are you?

It's not about the value of a phone number.

It's not about keeping a phone number secret.

It's about using your accesses in work to gain something specifically provided for that work environment only and then use it for personal reasons.

So can I access the CRM database in my job then and just start ringing people who I like the look of? Phone numbers 'have no value' according to you afterall.

Ubbquittious

o1s1n wrote: »

You're just not getting it, are you?

It's not about the value of a phone number.

It's not about keeping a phone number secret.

It's about using your accesses in work to gain something specifically provided for that work environment only and then use it for personal reasons.

So can I access the CRM database in my job then and just start ringing people who I like the look of? Phone numbers 'have no value' according to you afterall.

It depends on what you're saying to them when they answer I suppose

o1s1n

Ubbquittious wrote: »

It depends on what you're saying to them when they answer I suppose

So if someone from Eir got your mam/sister's phone number from their work database and rang them to ask if they were single...you wouldn't find that at least a little odd/creepy/over the line?

andekwarhola

gmisk wrote: »

https://twitter.com/_annarebecca/status/1294661185074335745?s=19

I thought the argos one was pretty bad....but this person was contacted by a person who took their blood sample in a hospital seemingly....

Got lots of likes though, so every cloud...

andekwarhola

Ubbquittious wrote: »

It depends on what you're saying to them when they answer I suppose

No, It depends on the fact you got their number by false means

Ubbquittious

o1s1n wrote: »

So if someone from Eir got your mam/sister's phone number from their work database and rang them to ask if they were single...you wouldn't find that at least a little odd/creepy/over the line?

Ah jaysus mang, wouldnt want to hear about anyone from Eir trying to make their way in. Spawn of Satan those lads

Mic 1972

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Feck sake a phone number has feck all value. Anyone can get a person's phone number if they want, but if that person doesn't want to talk to you the number is shag all use to you.



If you have dozens or hunderds of contacts like most people do you can't realistically expect it to stay a secret.

Correct.
Phone numbers used to be on the book and it was perfectly fine for people to look you up in there and then call up and introduce themselves. No harm in doing that at all.
We are people interacting with each others, stop creating silly barriers

Mic 1972

gmisk wrote: »

https://twitter.com/_annarebecca/status/1294661185074335745?s=19

I thought the argos one was pretty bad....but this person was contacted by a person who took their blood sample in a hospital seemingly....

Thank god there are still people out there who speak to people like it's the most normal thing to do

Deebles McBeebles

gmisk wrote: »

https://twitter.com/_annarebecca/status/1294661185074335745?s=19

I thought the argos one was pretty bad....but this person was contacted by a person who took their blood sample in a hospital seemingly....

Not sure which is worse. "I done your blood test" or "shooting my shot".

hynesie08

gmisk wrote: »

https://twitter.com/_annarebecca/status/1294661185074335745?s=19

I thought the argos one was pretty bad....but this person was contacted by a person who took their blood sample in a hospital seemingly....

Puts it on twitter, doesn't name the guy or the hospital and posts that she doesn't want him fired and hasn't talked to the hospital.......

Still gets abused in her replies...

Honestly think I'm going to make up a harassment bingo card, because you can predict it from a mile away.

Errashareesh

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Correct.
Phone numbers used to be on the book and it was perfectly fine for people to look you up in there and then call up and introduce themselves. No harm in doing that at all.
We are people interacting with each others, stop creating silly barriers

When was it ever ok to do so via your workplace?