So are you single? Argos style....

Sardonicat

SineadSpears wrote: »

Do you think he should not have asked her at all?

There are ways of finding out if someone is single, if they socialise in the same places as you in the course of general conversation. If that was the case he could have met her out and about and got chatting that way. Did he even live near this woman? If its a case he lived hundreds of miles away he hardly texted her looking for a romantic date.

Leg End Reject

Sardonicat wrote: »

He shoulda put on Ironic by Allanis Morisette and had a little cry at his crappy luck

:P

Ed Byrne ... is that you?

SineadSpears

idk I just don't see a problem with simply asking someone if they are single. With the intent of potentially getting to go on a date with them .

I'm getting the kitchen done soon, & if either the cabinet guy or the tiler are my type, then I won't mind if a message asking if I'm single comes in my direction afterwards:p

Tell me how

Sardonicat wrote: »

There are ways of finding out if someone is single, if they socialise in the same places as you in the course of general conversation. If that was the case he could have met her out and about and got chatting that way. Did he even live near this woman? If its a case he lived hundreds of miles away he hardly texted her looking for a romantic date.

If he lived hundreds of miles away, why would he have texted at all?

As for ways about finding out a woman, once you are over the age of 16, if you are interested in someone, you should be able to ask them directly without offending them, and accept their answer without being offended.

ittakestwo

Leg End Reject wrote: »

He liked her, what other options did he have? Turn up unannounced at her door?

Sometimes in life you have to take a chance, nothing ventured nothing gained.

Anyone with half a brain would know they are risking their job for that.


Nothing ventured nothing gained..... apart from keeping your job.

.anon.

Leg End Reject wrote: »

He liked her, what other options did he have? Turn up unannounced at her door?

Sometimes in life you have to take a chance, nothing ventured nothing gained.

He could have struck up a friendly conversation with her in person when he actually was at her door. And maybe then, if he felt that she was receptive, he could've said "Anyway, I really have to deliver these parcels or I'll get sacked... I don't suppose you'd like to have a drink some time?"

dockysher

Could have ask her out for a pint. Oh wait!!!!!

One eyed Jack

Tell me how wrote: »

As for ways about finding out a woman, once you are over the age of 16, if you are interested in someone, you should be able to ask them directly without offending them, and accept their answer without being offended.

Should be able to order something from Argos without the delivery driver using your details to contact you in a personal capacity too. It’s not an unreasonable expectation when using a service that you don’t have a shìtty experience, and when you do, why wouldn’t you make a complaint and let Argos know their service fell beneath your expectations?

Context is important. The customer isn’t an Argos employee or an employee of the courier, they’re not required to behave a certain way when an employee uses their personal data in a personal capacity. She didn’t expect her personal data to be used in that way, I guess he didn’t expect she would do what she did either. The difference between their behaviour of course is that she didn’t do anything wrong.

.anon.

dockysher wrote: »

Could have ask her out for a pint. Oh wait!!!!!

He could have. It happened in the UK.

Tell me how

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Should be able to order something from Argos without the delivery driver using your details to contact you in a personal capacity too. It’s not an unreasonable expectation when using a service that you don’t have a shìtty experience, and when you do, why wouldn’t you make a complaint and let Argos know their service fell beneath your expectations?

Context is important. The customer isn’t an Argos employee or an employee of the courier, they’re not required to behave a certain way when an employee uses their personal data in a personal capacity. She didn’t expect her personal data to be used in that way, I guess he didn’t expect she would do what she did either. The difference between their behaviour of course is that she didn’t do anything wrong.

I've said already he should have introduced himself in the first text so she knew who it was, but if he had done, would it still be as bad?

But was it that ****ty a thing to do? If so, any interaction where people met in a professional environment could be said to be inappropriate.

Is that so where things are at?

One eyed Jack

Tell me how wrote: »

I've said already he should have introduced himself in the first text so she knew who it was, but if he had done, would it still be as bad?

But was it that ****ty a thing to do? If so, any interaction where people met in a professional environment could be said to be inappropriate.

Is that so where things are at?

Would it be as bad? Yes, because he used personal data he only had access to through his job, in a personal capacity. I can see how any reasonable person would be annoyed by a breach of their privacy like that. Be like someone from say a utility company calling you up after being on the phone to you earlier about an overdue payment or whatever and asking are you single? I dunno how you’d react, but that wouldn’t make what they did any less inappropriate.

‘Twas a shìtty thing to do IMO, but it’s a matter for the individual to decide how they deal with it. Even if as it’s been suggested it could have gone differently if she’d the fanny flutters on receiving his text message, it still wouldn’t have made what he did any less inappropriate.

I dunno why you’re making comparisons to a professional environment because she wasn’t in a professional environment, she was in her home. He’s the person is trusted by his employer to behave appropriately with customers, that same expectation isn’t made by employers of people who aren’t their employees.

But since you mention the scenario, it’s covered in most employee handbooks I’ve ever seen, and where it isn’t, there’s an expectation that the employees are mature enough to know it’s frowned upon by their employer. Just because some people might be ok with it doesn’t make it any less inappropriate. Be like someone making a complaint about a shìtty service and someone else saying “I got a shìtty service too” as if the other person should accept that there’s nothing wrong with them having experienced a shìtty service, they’re being unreasonable if they want to warn people off the business which provides a shìtty service.

Are they really being unreasonable? I don’t think so, happens on here all the time that people advertise the fact that a particular company provides a shìtty service. In this case it was Argos who were responsible for the customer experiencing a shìtty service.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

Tell me how wrote: »

If the driver had done this, I wouldn't be surprised if it had ended up going the same way with anger being aimed at them for turning a professional interaction in to a personal one. It could be argued that they then felt immediately pressured to respond in a way that wouldn't offend and they are not uncomfortable standing in their own hallway because it reminds them of the experience.

Sorry, no offence, but that's nonsense.

How do you think you ask a person out who you randomly bump into in everyday life?

I don't agree with this guy using a phone number that wasn't given to him by this woman for that purpose... that is unprofessional. But there is nothing wrong with asking a girl out when you are say, walking back to your van etc... just before she closes the door.

Yes it could make for an awkward interaction if she's not interested... but then that's life. There's no real way of avoiding that potential outcome. It's a natural part of life...

I think some people these days, seem to use technology as a means to avoiding real human interactions. They think they can cut out the awkward bits if they send a text etc... But you can't... it's unnatural.

Even these dating apps are a load of nonsense too. They look like a classified car sales website, with everyone listing their details and specs. Too clinical and impersonal... it's no wonder so many people's relationships break down these days!

Tell me how

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Would it be as bad? Yes, because he used personal data he only had access to through his job, in a personal capacity. I can see how any reasonable person would be annoyed by a breach of their privacy like that. Be like someone from say a utility company calling you up after being on the phone to you earlier about an overdue payment or whatever and asking are you single? I dunno how you’d react, but that wouldn’t make what they did any less inappropriate.

‘Twas a shìtty thing to do IMO, but it’s a matter for the individual to decide how they deal with it. Even if as it’s been suggested it could have gone differently if she’d the fanny flutters on receiving his text message, it still wouldn’t have made what he did any less inappropriate.

I dunno why you’re making comparisons to a professional environment because she wasn’t in a professional environment, she was in her home. He’s the person is trusted by his employer to behave appropriately with customers, that same expectation isn’t made by employers of people who aren’t their employees.

But since you mention the scenario, it’s covered in most employee handbooks I’ve ever seen, and where it isn’t, there’s an expectation that the employees are mature enough to know it’s frowned upon by their employer. Just because some people might be ok with it doesn’t make it any less inappropriate. Be like someone making a complaint about a shìtty service and someone else saying “I got a shìtty service too” as if the other person should accept that there’s nothing wrong with them having experienced a shìtty service, they’re being unreasonable if they want to warn people off the business which provides a shìtty service.

Are they really being unreasonable? I don’t think so, happens on here all the time that people advertise the fact that a particular company provides a shìtty service. In this case it was Argos who were responsible for the customer experiencing a shìtty service.

Its obvious why I mentioned professional environment. They only met because of a contracted obligation to deliver the goods.

Is it really inappropriate to be asked out?

One eyed Jack

Tell me how wrote: »

Its obvious why I mentioned professional environment. They only met because of a contracted obligation to deliver the goods.

Is it really inappropriate to be asked out?

It’s not obvious why you asked about a professional environment because that’s a completely different scenario to what actually happened in this case. His responsibility to deliver goods to her home doesn’t make her home a professional environment. In that context yes, it’s inappropriate for an employee to be asking customers personal questions. That’s why I gave the example of someone from a utility company using your personal data to contact you and ask you personal questions. They’re an employee, you’re a customer, it’s not that difficult to understand why it’s inappropriate for employees to use customers personal data for their own gain.

Nobody has argued that it’s inappropriate to ask someone out. They’re making the point that in certain contexts it is inappropriate to ask someone out. This happens to be one of those contexts. I’m not saying anything else about the guy because ultimately it’s his employer is responsible for the service their customers receive from the company, and in this case the customer had a bad customer experience and made a complaint. She didn’t agree to her personal data being used in that way, and it was inappropriate for him to do so. It doesn’t matter that it was to ask her was she single or anything else, he simply had no right to do it.

The chan chan man

If he’d been good looking she would have cracked her pelvis opening her legs for him... but when he’s ugly, its creepy and she feels unsafe..

Surreptitious

Big deal about nothing. Maybe he should have been more self aware and picked up on the signs. How do people meet these days? It's 'unsafe', 'I feel trapped'. Nobody ever got anywhere with anyone without taking a chance. If it happened to me I would just say I'm seeing someone but thanks anyway. I would hardly put it up on social media destroying the guys basic job prospects. He is a delivery guy nothing more.
I was chatting to a courier and he said he had women cracking onto him but he declined and I know someone who is a postman frequently asked for sex. Neither of them made a big deal about it.
People are people, they might want to have a relationship someday. It's not like he sexually assaulted her or something. The world has gone crazy people are scared of everything. if she had fancied him it would have been a whole other ball game.

Strumms

Tell me how wrote: »

I've said already he should have introduced himself in the first text so she knew who it was, but if he had done, would it still be as bad?

But was it that ****ty a thing to do? If so, any interaction where people met in a professional environment could be said to be inappropriate.

Is that so where things are at?

I think if people ‘get to know’ each other through a professional environment, say he’s been delivering there regularly, like once a week for a few months even... there is a connection and rapport between them, through a few jokes, some small talk he gauges there is likely a ‘mutual’ like, then perhaps ok...make a new customer on your delivery route though and a week later you are chancing your arm via a phone number that was entrusted to you in a work capacity ? Not very professional. The customer feels a little uncomfortable that could be ‘bad for business’ and your career.

Sales person might have busted their britches to win the account, great revenue for the company that might influence or help to influence pay rises for everyone but there is a horn dog after...fûcking... up the account.

Just chancing your arm, I don’t know. From an employers perspective that wouldn’t sit well. I’d be saying... “I’m paying you to interact with customers on a professional basis, only. Not a social call, it’s work... I only want you to hello, deliver and answer any queries as relates to the job, then goodbye”

pgj2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7U3wmUCe8Q

Sam Quentin

The chan chan man wrote: »

If he’d been good looking she would have cracked her pelvis opening her legs for him... but when he’s ugly, its creepy and she feels unsafe..

Dear Gawwwwwwd...
Who said romance was dead!?

Jenneke87

The chan chan man wrote: »

If he’d been good looking she would have cracked her pelvis opening her legs for him... but when he’s ugly, its creepy and she feels unsafe..

No, some things are just creepy, no matter how good someone looks...

Feisar

Jenneke87 wrote: »

No, some things are just creepy, no matter how good someone looks...

Apparently not:

https://www.boredpanda.com/social-experiment-guy-created-fake-tinder-profile-hot-model-pictures-germanlifter/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic

He wants a ride, she wants some free money.

She wins.

gmisk

The chan chan man wrote: »

If he’d been good looking she would have cracked her pelvis opening her legs for him... but when he’s ugly, its creepy and she feels unsafe..

You have a truly horrible view of woman...I am sure your mother would be extremely proud

gmisk

gmisk wrote: »

You have a truly horrible view of woman...I am sure your mother would be extremely proud

It was a very crude way of putting it but they have a point.

One eyed Jack

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

It was a very crude way of putting it but they have a point.

They don’t have a point. What they’re saying isn’t any different than saying a guy would bend over and take it up the arse if the guy was good looking, but if he’s ugly they wouldn’t.

That poster might be indiscriminate in who they’ll bend over for, but that doesn’t mean their standards apply to anyone else.

FunLover18

It's extremely creepy behaviour, fair play to her for taking a stand.

If you don't think it's creepy take a step back and genuinely consider how weird you'd feel if you got an unsolicited text from a random delivery man asking about your relationship status, knowing he knows where you live. If you're a man, don't gender flip it, imagine getting the text from another man. It's fúcking weird and there's no getting around it.

One eyed Jack

One eyed Jack wrote: »

They don’t have a point. What they’re saying isn’t any different than saying a guy would bend over and take it up the arse if the guy was good looking, but if he’s ugly they wouldn’t.

That poster might be indiscriminate in who they’ll bend over for, but that doesn’t mean their standards apply to anyone else.

Your way of saying it is overly crude too but the point is still there.

Creepy things suddenly become a whole lot less creepy when it’s someone good looking.

breezy1985

Tell me how wrote: »

I've said already he should have introduced himself in the first text so she knew who it was, but if he had done, would it still be as bad?

But was it that ****ty a thing to do? If so, any interaction where people met in a professional environment could be said to be inappropriate.

Is that so where things are at?

Yes it would be as bad. He took a phone number he obtained in a professional capacity and used it for non work purposes. I take phone numbers in work all the time and if I or any staff male or female used them for any reason other than a professional ones it would be a sacking

Surreptitious

It's creepy asking someone for a date now? How do people meet these days, by hiding in their snowflake world expecting some fantasy.
The same women are watching Hollywood movies where the guy turns up at their work place and whisks them away. Them they complain about something like that happening in reality.
Oh it's creepy boo hoo.
Get some cats and shut the fck up.

One eyed Jack

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Your way of saying it is overly crude too but the point is still there.

Creepy things suddenly become a whole lot less creepy when it’s someone good looking.

They don’t. The idea that someone is attractive doesn’t make their creepy behaviour any less creepy. That’s the point of saying that it doesn’t matter whether the person is attractive or not, the point is about their behaviour.

Like what’s the point in saying if the person is attracted to the guy they wouldn’t complain? So what? Is a person somehow at fault for thinking the guys a creep and not giving him the ride or something? It’s entirely his own fault for doing what he did, she’s not in any way at fault for what he did.

o1s1n

Surreptitious wrote: »

It's creepy asking someone for a date now? How do people meet these days, by hiding in their snowflake world expecting some fantasy.
The same women are watching Hollywood movies where the guy turns up at their work place and whisks them away. Them they complain about something like that happening in reality.
Oh it's creepy boo hoo.
Get some cats and shut the fck up.

I suggest you look up the definition of a 'strawman arguement', it might help avoid future pitfalls in your reasoning.

Nobody is saying it's creepy to ask someone for a date, why? Because that would be a ridiculous notion.

What people are saying it is is creepy to abuse your position in work to obtain a phone number and use it for personal reasons.

Lundstram

FunLover18 wrote: »

It's extremely creepy behaviour, fair play to her for taking a stand.

If you don't think it's creepy take a step back and genuinely consider how weird you'd feel if you got an unsolicited text from a random delivery man asking about your relationship status, knowing he knows where you live. If you're a man, don't gender flip it, imagine getting the text from another man. It's fúcking weird and there's no getting around it.

Taking a stand would be to ignore, block the number and move on with your life.

This is just attention seeking.

gmisk

Surreptitious wrote: »

It's creepy asking someone for a date now? How do people meet these days, by hiding in their snowflake world expecting some fantasy.
The same women are watching Hollywood movies where the guy turns up at their work place and whisks them away. Them they complain about something like that happening in reality.
Oh it's creepy boo hoo.
Get some cats and shut the fck up.

He took the phone number which the person had provided to a private company, he shouldn't have done it, it's creepy as hell imo, and he deserves to get fired.
It wasn't some hollywood meet cute, whatever way you want to dress things up.

fatknacker

He has her address too, like. Who’s to say she didn’t get a creepy predator vibe from him.
I bet there was also 0% flirting from her side too. Some lads need to read the fkn room and realise not every woman who interacts with them is after their dick.

ReginaldSmythV

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Your way of saying it is overly crude too but the point is still there.

Creepy things suddenly become a whole lot less creepy when it’s someone good looking.

I think a blind dogs with a stick up his arse could see that the inference was that if a woman finds a man attractive, she will see an approach as appropriate and somewhat exciting. The exact same approach would be deemed as creepy if the woman didn't find the man attractive.

This also fits into Jack's example too, just change the gender of the person being approached.

No need for fighting.

fatknacker

fatknacker wrote: »

He has her address too, like. Who’s to say she didn’t get a creepy predator vibe from him.
I bet there was also 0% flirting from her side too. Some lads need to read the fkn room and realise not every woman who interacts with them is after their dick.

Some others also need to read the room; not every lad who asks you out is a rapist or a predator.

Surreptitious

o1s1n wrote: »

I suggest you look up the definition of a 'strawman arguement', it might help avoid future pitfalls in your reasoning.

Nobody is saying it's creepy to ask someone for a date, why? Because that would be a ridiculous notion.

What people are saying it is is creepy to abuse your position in work to obtain a phone number and use it for personal reasons.

It's just the way people think now. Back in the day you'd have people giving your number to guys who fancied you. Yes he was in work but she has ruined any chance now of him having a job, he might have rent to pay etc. It's an overreaction. She didn't have to make it such a big deal. All she had to say was no thanks and leave it at that. It's crazy.

loalae

He had consent to use her phone number only in relation to the package he was delivering. The creepy part of his behaviour was taking her number from his work environment and using it in his personal life.

This guy asking a woman out is not the issue. The issue is the abuse of data provided for a different purpose.

Should people not expect that companies will use their data responsibly? Should employees not be expected to adhere to the laws related to data protection?

She was dead right to complain. Why the **** does it matter what method ahe used to complain?

fatknacker

Deleted User wrote: »

Some others also need to read the room; not every lad who asks you out is a rapist or a predator.

A guy who illegally takes your phone number to text you asking if you’re single while alone in a house is not exactly right in the head.

Also I didn’t say anyone approaching someone could be treated as a rapist or predator. Some are tho...

loalae

Surreptitious wrote: »

It's just the way people think now. Back in the day you'd have people giving your number to guys who fancied you. Yes he was in work but she has ruined any chance now of him having a job, he might have rent to pay etc. It's an overreaction. She didn't have to make it such a big deal. All she had to say was no thanks and leave it at that. It's crazy.

How is SHE responsible for the consequences of HIS behaviour?

Weird attitude.

One eyed Jack

Surreptitious wrote: »

It's just the way people think now. Back in the day you'd have people giving your number to guys who fancied you. Yes he was in work but she has ruined any chance now of him having a job, he might have rent to pay etc. It's an overreaction. She didn't have to make it such a big deal. All she had to say was no thanks and leave it at that. It's crazy.

She didn’t ruin anything. He did that all by himself.

What you’re talking about is teenagers, we make allowances for them doing stupid shìt. Grown adults? Not so much, especially when they absolutely know better but decide to do it anyway.

Is that the kind of service people are supposed to expect now from Argos when they order something for delivery? The delivery man contacting them later on to ask them how’s that new sofa or some shìte? It’s not 20 years ago and he’s not a teenager.

fatknacker

The majority attitude of this thread is weird tbh. Bet most of yous would be livid if it happened to your partners while alone in the house, but because it’s a random woman she’s over reacting.

Surreptitious

One eyed Jack wrote: »

She didn’t ruin anything. He did that all by himself.

What you’re talking about is teenagers, we make allowances for them doing stupid shìt. Grown adults? Not so much, especially when they absolutely know better but decide to do it anyway.

Is that the kind of service people are supposed to expect now from Argos when they order something for delivery? The delivery man contacting them later on to ask them how’s that new sofa or some shìte? It’s not 20 years ago and he’s not a teenager.

Says yourman. You're in no position to talk.

kenmm

Surreptitious wrote: »

It's creepy asking someone for a date now? How do people meet these days, by hiding in their snowflake world expecting some fantasy.
The same women are watching Hollywood movies where the guy turns up at their work place and whisks them away. Them they complain about something like that happening in reality.
Oh it's creepy boo hoo.
Get some cats and shut the fck up.

This post is all over the place tbh.

Sardonicat

loalae wrote: »

How is SHE responsible for the consequences of HIS behaviour?

Weird attitude.

Don't you get it, she's supposed to be flattered. Obviously he wasn't handsome, because if he had been she would immediately have slept with this total stranger. Cos we're like that. All of us are completely amoral sluts who only care about appearances and money and would sleep with any handsome stranger regardless of our values, beliefs(cos we don't really have any) and commitments to anyone else. The poor guy only broke the law and company policy, he should in no way be deemed unsuitable for similar employment ever again. What a b1tch!

loalae

Sardonicat wrote: »

Don't you get it, she's supposed to be flattered. Obviously he wasn't handsome, because if he had been she would immediately have slept with this total stranger. Cos we're like that. All of us are completely amoral sluts who only care about appearances and money and would sleep with any handsome stranger regardless of our values, beliefs(cos we don't really have any) and commitments to anyone else. The poor guy only broke the law and company policy, he should in no way be deemed unsuitable for similar employment ever again. What a b1tch!

Oh silly me! Thanks for reminding me of her place!

Of course his job is more important than her data protection. Especially when she had the gall to order something to be delivered.

Sardonicat

loalae wrote: »

Oh silly me! Thanks for reminding me of her place!

Of course his job is more important than her data protection. Especially when she had the gall to order something to be delivered.

I know like! What did she expect? A professional service and appropriate behaviour or something? How dare she expect her personal data to be used only for the reasons guaranteed by the company. I mean, just who does she think she is?

Feisar

loalae wrote: »

Oh silly me! Thanks for reminding me of her place!

Of course his job is more important than her data protection. Especially when she had the gall to order something to be delivered.

What are the pair of ye on about? This isn't the front line in some sort of battle of the sexes.
Fatknacker (dunno how that username is allowed!) made a good point, image it was your partner/daughter. Apply the same logic to yer man, what would your reaction be then?
Data protection? It's the new health and safety. There was a time one couldn't bend over to pick up a box of screws without hearing "health and safety". There is a GDPR issue here alright however it's higher up the food chain than this hapless idiot. Is there really a need to a persons phone number to be on a parcel? Anyone along the supply chain could get it.

loalae

Feisar wrote: »

What are the pair of ye on about? This isn't the front line in some sort of battle of the sexes.
Fatknacker (dunno how that username is allowed!) made a good point, image it was your partner/daughter. Apply the same logic to yer man, what would your reaction be then?
Data protection? It's the new health and safety. There was a time one couldn't bend over to pick up a box of screws without hearing "health and safety". There is a GDPR issue here alright however it's higher up the food chain than this hapless idiot. Is there really a need to a persons phone number to be on a parcel? Anyone along the supply chain could get it.

Well I was being sarcastic and I think sardonicat may have been as well.

Do you really think that people lower down in organisations shouldn't have access to phone numbers? The vast majority or delivery drivers do not do this kind of thing and, in my view, it's not too much to expect a worker to not use a phone number provided for one purpose to get a date.

Sardonicat

Feisar wrote: »

What are the pair of ye on about? This isn't the front line in some sort of battle of the sexes.
Fatknacker (dunno how that username is allowed!) made a good point, image it was your partner/daughter. Apply the same logic to yer man, what would your reaction be then?
Data protection? It's the new health and safety. There was a time one couldn't bend over to pick up a box of screws without hearing "health and safety". There is a GDPR issue here alright however it's higher up the food chain than this hapless idiot. Is there really a need to a persons phone number to be on a parcel? Anyone along the supply chain could get it.

Have a little look at some of the posts on here claiming if he was good looking she would have been delighted 'spread her legs and cracked her pelvis open for him, as one poster delicately put it) and blaming her for him losing his job.

I agree, it's a GDPR issue. Drivers are often given your number in case there is an issue with delivery, even if it's not on the package to be delivered and because they are professional and not idiots they use that information appropriately.